A Gap Closer for Operatives

[Quinlynn]

How about a chastity belt?

[Remdo]

Ich Bin Ein L2P.

 

Original.

 

To all you "l2p sayers".

Are you really suggesting that 90% of all concealment players either switched to healing, rerolled or even quit, was bad players and all had the need to learn to play?

At 50 there's no IAs left apart from snipers who do well in PvE.

 

Show all the bad ops and scounds how to play, because clearly none of us know (who actually play the class oh my).

 

There's only 3 ops I've seen on my server (myself included) the past 2 weeks.

Where as 2 are healing now (myself included).

 

I would reroll, though Im too lazy to do so, and I got my guild who gladly takes me with them, only because Im healing.

 

 

 

"Play the class, get frustrated, reroll."

[Chaosmagistrate]

Original.

 

To all you "l2p sayers".

Are you really suggesting that 90% of all concealment players either switched to healing, rerolled or even quit, was bad players and all had the need to learn to play?

At 50 there's no IAs left apart from snipers who do well in PvE.

 

Show all the bad ops and scounds how to play, because clearly none of us know (who actually play the class oh my).

 

There's only 3 ops I've seen on my server (myself included) the past 2 weeks.

Where as 2 are healing now (myself included).

 

I would reroll, though Im too lazy to do so, and I got my guild who gladly takes me with them, only because Im healing.

 

 

 

"Play the class, get frustrated, reroll."

 

Yes, for the most part, a significant portion of the Ops/Scs were adrenal/buff stacking junkies who relied on buff stacking to get anything accomplished. Now after that was changed, most Scs/Ops either quit, or re-specced healing and are terrible at that. So yes, most of the Ops/Scs were and are terrible.

 

However, I agree that the nerfs were a bit overboard, as biochem is almost still a requirement to be strong, but the ones who stuck through it are still downright scary as they actually play well. And concealment PvE DPS makes me cry now.

[Cataphractone]

I guess being able stealth to key areas for a pass or to the goal line makes us worthless in Huttball. We got lots of utility to use. The problems is YOU... not the class. Try pairing up with someone and use some actual teamwork because the class is quite devastating when used properly and with some tactics.

 

Assassins can do the same thing with more utility.

[Necrosov]

Original.

 

To all you "l2p sayers".

Are you really suggesting that 90% of all concealment players either switched to healing, rerolled or even quit, was bad players and all had the need to learn to play?

At 50 there's no IAs left apart from snipers who do well in PvE.

 

Show all the bad ops and scounds how to play, because clearly none of us know (who actually play the class oh my).

 

There's only 3 ops I've seen on my server (myself included) the past 2 weeks.

Where as 2 are healing now (myself included).

 

I would reroll, though Im too lazy to do so, and I got my guild who gladly takes me with them, only because Im healing.

 

 

 

"Play the class, get frustrated, reroll."

 

Short answer: Yes. The class is not super easy mode. Well, it is easy - but not as easy as some classes. We have an arsenal of abilities to use for almost every combat situation and each ability has a specific use... Being able to know what that situation is and when to use that certain ability is what counts. It is a tactical class. You cannot just spam a few abilities and win against any intelligent player you need to utilize your arsenal of abilities and know when to use them. Before the nerf I didn't really have to use a lot of my skills - it was pretty much KD from hidden strike and your dead. Now that they lowered the damage you cant just insta gib somebody before they stand up.

[Necrosov]

Assassins can do the same thing with more utility.

 

Be specific. Because I have utility that an assassin doesn't. It goes both ways because an assassin has tank utility and and Op has healing utility... let alone other skills that distinguish them from one another.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Necrosov

[Cataphractone]

Be specific. Because I have utility that an assassin doesn't. It goes both ways because an assassin has tank utility and and Op has healing utility... let alone other skills that distinguish them from one another.

 

lol

 

Concealment spec healing utility. We can cleanse tech and physical debuffs. Wooo....

 

Assassin's have more CC and better survivability.

[Ich_Bin]

Be specific. Because I have utility that an assassin doesn't. It goes both ways because an assassin has tank utility and and Op has healing utility... let alone other skills that distinguish them from one another.

 

He/She obviously meant stuff like pull, knockback or speed. There is a world of difference between the two classes. This is most obvious in Huttball but is also true for Voidstar and Alderaan.

 

I would GLADLY trade our "healing utility" for an Assassin's "tanking utility". Because whenever you heal anyone but yourself in a warzone, you just locked yourself back into combat and are not able to stealth. And we all know how weak this class is when it is not being able to attack from stealth.

So honestly, apart from healing urself in a dark corner, healing is useless as a concealment operative. And obviously, as an Assassin you wouldn't even HAVE to heal yourself in the first place nearly as often, because you have MUCH better survivability.

 

You can really turn it around over and over again, but Assassin's have gotten the better deal by far.

[PalawaJoko]

Give them a teleportation device o/ Edited February 29, 2012 by PalawaJoko

[halfhourofpower]

First off, this is not a thread made to whine about the changes made to Operatives in pvp. Personally, I think a slightly lower damage hidden strike is a fair trade with the buff jarring strike was given to not fill the resolve bar. An issue I do feel needs addressed however is the lack of a gap closing power for Operatives, specifically concealment.

 

If you look at the other melee classes, they all have some sort of skill that allows them to get in a ranged dps' face more quickly (Force Charge, Jet Charge, Grapple, Force Speed, etc). Operatives have two talents that provide movement speed increases, but one requires us to use Debilitate on a target (our best stun), and the other requires us to burn out best defensive cooldown (Cloaking Screen). The other melee classes do not have similar drawbacks built into their gap closers, and only Jet Charge requires a talent.

 

Here is my suggestion:

 

1) Switch Meticulously Kept Blades and Culling in the Concealment talent tree.

2) Roll Acid Blade and Culling into one talent. It would still be a 3 point talent, and points invested beyond the first would only increase the damage dealt to poisoned targets (1%/2%/3%).

3) Create a new 31 point talent similar to Shadowstep used by rogues in that other game whose name cannot be spoken. The range would be equal to that of the other gap closers, and the operative would end up behind his or her target.

 

Now, before anyone says "Stealth is your gap closer, that talent would be overpowered!", I would like to point out that the other stealthy melee class not only has a gap closer in the form of a sprint, but also has an AoE knockback. I am suggesting Operatives sacrifice the utility of a knockback in order to have a skill that would bring them more into line with the other melee classes when outside of stealth.

 

Any thoughts are appreciated, and yes I can feel the flames at my back as I finish typing this. Cheers!

 

We are fine, shadows have force speed, we have our shotgun snare/slow. Not to mention stealth, though shadows have that too. I'd only want a shadowstep type thing for pve, for pvp it'd ruin the sneaking part of being a scoundrel, which I do like, though I realize thats subjective. We're fine as is. LoS a ranged and they'll come running around the corner. There's always somewhere to LoS.

[Ich_Bin]

We are fine, shadows have force speed, we have our shotgun snare/slow. Not to mention stealth, though shadows have that too. I'd only want a shadowstep type thing for pve, for pvp it'd ruin the sneaking part of being a scoundrel, which I do like, though I realize thats subjective. We're fine as is. LoS a ranged and they'll come running around the corner. There's always somewhere to LoS.

 

Yeah especially when you have gotten knocked into the pit in Huttball you really want to LoS

[halfhourofpower]

lol

 

Concealment spec healing utility. We can cleanse tech and physical debuffs. Wooo....

 

Assassin's have more CC and better survivability.

 

You do realize that with our cleanses we can make the shared tree of both scoundrel/op and trooper/bounty hunter completly useless against us, right?

[halfhourofpower]

Yeah especially when you have gotten knocked into the pit in Huttball you really want to LoS

 

Roll a shadow. You're acting as if you want everything they have anyway. Make it easier on yourself. I also saw you mention something about a scoudnrels sustained damage, its fine, great in fact. You're doing it wrong.

[Necrosov]

He's from a PVE server man give him a break. *Snicker*

[Humankeg]

Im still laughing at all the Scoundrels/Ops that thought they were so good before the last nerf, to be able to listen to any changes suggested by them to buff their class.

 

How ever constructive it might be.

[Humankeg]

He/She obviously meant stuff like pull, knockback or speed. There is a world of difference between the two classes. This is most obvious in Huttball but is also true for Voidstar and Alderaan.

 

I would GLADLY trade our "healing utility" for an Assassin's "tanking utility". Because whenever you heal anyone but yourself in a warzone, you just locked yourself back into combat and are not able to stealth. And we all know how weak this class is when it is not being able to attack from stealth.

So honestly, apart from healing urself in a dark corner, healing is useless as a concealment operative. And obviously, as an Assassin you wouldn't even HAVE to heal yourself in the first place nearly as often, because you have MUCH better survivability.

 

You can really turn it around over and over again, but Assassin's have gotten the better deal by far.

 

Force users in general are way too good in Huttball, specifically SI/Consulars. I've said it once, Ill say it again: force speed needs to be affected by carrying the ball; pull (Sorcs/Sages) needs to not work on full resolve targets, or needs to empty the targets resolve bar if used (meaning the target can be CC'd again), AND there ineeds to be a "pull" cooldown debuff on the target, preventing chain pulling.

[wiazabi]

Be specific. Because I have utility that an assassin doesn't. It goes both ways because an assassin has tank utility and and Op has healing utility... let alone other skills that distinguish them from one another.

 

Resilience

Instant

Cooldown: 60s

Removes all hostile removable effects and increases your chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.

 

Our lucky dodge only prevents white dmg, i mean which stun isnt force or tech?

 

Mass Mind Control

Instant

Cooldown: 45s

Forces all enemies within 15 meters to attack you for 6 seconds. Player targets deal 30% less damage when attacking anyone other than you. Lasts 6 seconds.

 

Mind Control

Instant

Cooldown: 15s

Range: 30 m

Controls the mind of the target, forcing it to attack you for 6 seconds. Player targets deal 30% less damage when attacking anyone other than you. Lasts 6 seconds.

 

Now both the 2 taunts is alot more easy to use than stop and start casting a heal since both the taunts are instant and gives a 30% dmg reduction, none of those have to use alacrity to be better they just work

 

Mind Maze same as our stealth stun but doesnt fill resolve bar.

 

Battle Readiness

Instant

Cooldown: 120s

Readies yourself with the Force, increasing the damage dealt by Force and Shadow Technique by 100% and reducing the rate limit of Combat Technique to 3 seconds. Lasts 15 seconds.

 

Our lvl 50 ability is a combat ress thats pointless in pvp and also shares cooldown in the group / ops with all other classes that have combat ress

 

 

Spinning Strike

Instant

Force: 25

Cooldown: 6s

Range: 4 m

Issues a subduing strike, dealing 2744 - 3047 weapon damage. Only usable on targets at or below 30% max health.

 

We dont have any finishing skills only shadow / gunslinger / guardian / sentinel, closest we get to this is 15% more dot dmg when targets are below/qual to 30%, IF! we spec for it in the cursed df spec

 

 

But lets stop here and forget about forcespeed knockback ranged stuns flash bang tech cure smuggle <- lol smuggle oh so usefull etc. and tell me what makes us better or even better in which situation is a scoundrel preferred over a shadow?

Edited March 1, 2012 by wiazabi

[Ich_Bin]

But lets stop here and forget about forcespeed knockback ranged stuns flash bang tech cure etc. and tell me what makes us better or even better in which situation is a scoundrel preferred over a shadow?

 

That is in fact one of the questions that all those Operative haters fail to answer every time.

 

I have another one: Why are the numbers of DD Scoundrels/Operatives decreasing every day? Probably because the class lacks no utility right?

[Cstain]

So reliable when you use it on someone who dispels it/gets dispelled you have to wait its 12s cd

 

Some people actually press their buttons, you know

 

 

So your asking to be the only class with a snare that cant be dispelled? I am confused....

[Cataphractone]

You do realize that with our cleanses we can make the shared tree of both scoundrel/op and trooper/bounty hunter completly useless against us, right?

 

You do realize that our cleanse has a 4 second cooldown and we can only cleanse 2 debuffs at a time.

 

 

He's from a PVE server man give him a break. *Snicker*

 

I'm only on a PvE server because the friend I am playing the game with got it before me and picked the server that was with some guild mates from SWG.

 

And there is no difference in PvE vs PvP servers other than you can get ganked and I can zone out while questing. Watch out, we got a ****** here.

[Ich_Bin]

So your asking to be the only class with a snare that cant be dispelled? I am confused....

 

Tendon Blast is the only thing that comes close to being a gap closer that Scoundrels/Ops have (10m range ).

 

Every other melee class has 1 or 2 real gap closers. Good luck dispelling Force Leap, Force Speed, Pull, Charge or Grip.

[Cataphractone]

So your asking to be the only class with a snare that cant be dispelled? I am confused....

 

Force slow might as well be undispellable.

 

Only Sages/Sorcerers can cleanse it.

[Xenthum]

Force slow might as well be undispellable.

 

Only Sages/Sorcerers can cleanse it.

 

And the Sent/Mara version can be instantly reapplied.

[Alexdaphnis]

Here's my Fix

Acid Blade - Coats your instruments in acid, causing your next Hidden Strike or Backstab to deal an additional 729 internal damage over 6 seconds and increase armor penetration by 30% and Movement Speed by 10% for 15 seconds. This ability does not respect the global cooldown and does not break stealth.

 

1 Can be good solution , i was thinking for maybe 20% slow for 6 sec

2 Why not force speed considering shadow/assasin allrdy have it and they gave them this becuse stealth is not gap closer for god sake!!!!

[hulkweazel]

That is in fact one of the questions that all those Operative haters fail to answer every time.

 

I have another one: Why are the numbers of DD Scoundrels/Operatives decreasing every day? Probably because the class lacks no utility right?

Well that's easy to answer. It's because Ops have a zero cooldown cloaking screen that also makes them invulnerable to all effects as well, they can backstab from 30 meters away and backstab also has no cooldown, and they can shoot fireballs from their eyes.

 

You might not have noticed these abilities because you just don't know how to play your class, you need to learn from someone who has never played the class before. Obviously they know a lot more about Ops then you do.