How do you find your Vanguard?

[Proppa]

I'll sum it up.

 

I'm Rank 50 since Monday (Valor 44 at the time), I'm now Valor 51/52. I have full PvP (3/4 Champ pieces rest centurion at the moment). I went Super-commando which I'm heavily regretting.

 

I'm also trying out Full Tactics spec, but considering I have ~3k additional armour from Ion Cell, +8% Armor Rating, 3% additional absorb. I feel unbelievably squishy and low-dps. I kinda expected it in non PvP gear. But considering I should, in theory have considerably more defence/absorb etc than other classes it really doesn't seem to work.

 

On the flipside, I'm intrested to know what non-Tactics spec players are finding out? I get around 120/180k DPS in a typical warzone.

 

Are there many abilities on other classes which "ignore" the armour of a class? Like Focused Impact causes high impact bolt to ignore 60%?

 

I'm used to playing a Sorcerer Valor 57/ 95% Champion Gear. I was able to keep myself alive far, far easier on that toon than I can on this toon.

 

I'm currently waiting to get Biometric Crystal Alloy (400 Biochem) so that I can make my Stims/Adrenal and Medpacs but I'm just finding it very dull, especially considering the lack of healing classes I'm coming up against.

 

On my Sorc, with an Assassin "Tank" friend, on Alderaan, he managed to get 200k protection on me and I managed to keep us both alive. Maybe I'm just having very very bad experienced.

 

Is it worth going DPS, is the DPS that solid?

[VragonBral]

Most of the damage in PvP for the moment render's Shields/Absorb relatively lackluster. It doesn't do as much as it should to some of the hardest hitting abilities. Also armor only mitigates 50% of skills coming at you. And in a heavily cast-based enemy team comp, your going to see that percentage drop like a atom bomb from the sky.

 

 

Also Defense is a trap-door till they have it fixed for us. As it will "time out" your skills when you tap them and make you have to tap them repeatedly or again for it to function. (This only occurs when dodging)

 

Relatively SuperCommando gear is sub-par for PvP because the designers made it relatively useless with its stats from their messup's. I feel for you man.

 

 

Critical/Power/Surge/Accuracy are still the de-facto's of PvP right now for damage.

 

And there is nothing really that "Stand-out-Awesome-Sauce" for tankier types in PvP.

 

Edit1:

 

Yes, the DPS is very solid with the Vanguard if you have the build down and know what your doing. Most of our abilities focus around floating in the 10 meter range no matter WHAT you do. And its where we shine mainly.

 

Our best classes are mixed breed builds. Common one's are the Carolina Parakeet, Taugrims IronFist. And Bulldog.

 

Assault breaks down into being a more ranged class then the others, and does a lot of burst damage with it's crit's.

 

Tactics is more sustained DPS and has a lot of utility.

 

And Shield has great utility as well, and mix's with the other trees quite nicely if spec'd right.

Edited February 15, 2012 by VragonBral

[Proppa]

I tried going the 25/14/2 spec but my DPS even with High Energy Cell or Plasma Cell seem's to be around the same as with my high Tactics spec. I found that I was able to sustain DPS in Tactics constantly without running out Ammo. Whereas with the spec I seemed to run low on Ammo pretty quickly. Averaging about 180k per warzone. I also died about the same as other players in the warzone. But they got close to double the damage I did.

 

I'm just getting quite disappointed with the Vanguard now, maybe it's the game in general, lack of healers etc. Along with how imps just way out-pop reps etc.

 

I just find that, I don't have Stealth/Vanish, I don't have incredible survivability and my DPS is mediocre. My sorc hybrid spec, I could out-dps my Vanguard and out-survive my Vanguard. I just feel like a sponge, roaming around/holding doors to just take damage lol.

 

Are other people enjoying the Vanguard?

[Proppa]

It also sucks, that it's almost impossible to respec properly, without having gear for both specs etc. I'm upto the 24k respec from trying so many lol.

[VragonBral]

I tried going the 25/14/2 spec but my DPS even with High Energy Cell or Plasma Cell seem's to be around the same as with my high Tactics spec. I found that I was able to sustain DPS in Tactics constantly without running out Ammo. Whereas with the spec I seemed to run low on Ammo pretty quickly. Averaging about 180k per warzone. I also died about the same as other players in the warzone. But they got close to double the damage I did.

 

I'm just getting quite disappointed with the Vanguard now, maybe it's the game in general, lack of healers etc. Along with how imps just way out-pop reps etc.

 

I just find that, I don't have Stealth/Vanish, I don't have incredible survivability and my DPS is mediocre. My sorc hybrid spec, I could out-dps my Vanguard and out-survive my Vanguard. I just feel like a sponge, roaming around/holding doors to just take damage lol.

 

Are other people enjoying the Vanguard?

 

I have been enjoying my Vanguard from day 1. And I completely gave up my BH at this point because of the love I share for the Vanguard AC.

 

Your playing also a AC that is MUCH unlike a Sorcerer mind you. With the Sorcerer you get MUCH MORE UTILITY and choices, plus survivability and damage. (Which is why its one of the most used and abused PvP character choices. This also apply's to Sages.)

 

I do well with my Vanguard, hitting about 300K+ damage and 90-120K protection every game now with just 4 Centurian pieces (Eliminator for 15% HiB crit) and several Champ pieces (Implants/Misc).

 

And still using my level 46 PvP rifle (Yeah, I know, gotta update).

 

This is relatively the build I use: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZ0MZbIbrdhGMs.1

 

I sit in Ion Cell and throw Guard on healer's and other important players. And taunt a LOT.

 

Overall you shouldn't be so discouraged at this point. You can put out some decent damage and still be very survivable.

[Proppa]

I may have to respec and try the Assault spec, although I have supercommando gear. Regret that choice now! lol.

 

I think it's that I'm used to DAOC. Where 1 template would suit the class down to whatever spec you decide.

 

Whereas, I want to experiment with specs, but my gear choice has crippled that. I intented on running with friends, who were leveling before me talking about leveling quickly to 50.... I'm 50 they are now early 20's..... Was going to be doing Sage, Commando, Vanguard and Smuggler/Shadow.

 

But I rarely get any heals on the server I play, I'll guard someone and they'll focus healing themselves after I clearly say I have guard on them and wouldn't mind a heal or 2.

 

It's not just about the DPS, I was just expecting to have more survivability than I do, I see Sentinels pop their immunity and survive longer than I do. Considering their DPS is much higher than mine I was expecting to be stronger.

 

Granted I don't have my heal pots yet which hurt me alot I think. But no one on The Shadow Runner seem's to run Hardmode Flashpoints. But I pop the 1500 Armor Adrenals to try and help, with my Heal/Barrier to try and survive, but it's like I didn't pop a thing.

 

It's worrying to me, that my sorc has better survivability (and could stand up against multiples) better than my Vanguard with 18000~ hps can.

[VragonBral]

I may have to respec and try the Assault spec, although I have supercommando gear. Regret that choice now! lol.

 

I think it's that I'm used to DAOC. Where 1 template would suit the class down to whatever spec you decide.

 

Whereas, I want to experiment with specs, but my gear choice has crippled that. I intented on running with friends, who were leveling before me talking about leveling quickly to 50.... I'm 50 they are now early 20's..... Was going to be doing Sage, Commando, Vanguard and Smuggler/Shadow.

 

But I rarely get any heals on the server I play, I'll guard someone and they'll focus healing themselves after I clearly say I have guard on them and wouldn't mind a heal or 2.

 

It's not just about the DPS, I was just expecting to have more survivability than I do, I see Sentinels pop their immunity and survive longer than I do. Considering their DPS is much higher than mine I was expecting to be stronger.

 

Granted I don't have my heal pots yet which hurt me alot I think. But no one on The Shadow Runner seem's to run Hardmode Flashpoints. But I pop the 1500 Armor Adrenals to try and help, with my Heal/Barrier to try and survive, but it's like I didn't pop a thing.

 

It's worrying to me, that my sorc has better survivability (and could stand up against multiples) better than my Vanguard with 18000~ hps can.

 

Thats because Vanguards get more Armor (Supposedly) in comparison to Guardians. Meanwhile...Guardians get a LOT of bubble-like damage reduction. They have an ability in their defense tree that reduces ALL Damage by 40% for 10 seconds. Which is just hilariously high for me.

 

Their just two very different types of creatures, Vanguards and Guardians. I've started my own Guardian and noticed that early on things are MUCH harder for me to level with in PvE and PvP. But I have noticed as I level up it gets better and better. Okay, yeah, getting off topic.

 

Back on topic for me!

 

Just keep trying with your Vanguard, especially since your in the 50's bracket without a pre-made now. You had geared for a team, but that team has thusly fizzled out. Best you just try and make a build centered around more damage at the moment for PvP.

 

And can't say much for PvE, as the fp's/op's call for a almost full Shield spec only. Lol. That is if your in a PUG and not a pre-made.

 

I would just say, keep trying. And goodluck!

[Fafryd]

I've tried various specs - Carolina, Iron Fist, full assault, tactics/assault hybrid.

 

Survivability in any spec is marginal if you get a few people on you. Some specs have a little more, like Iron Fist, but in all cases you will still die a fair amount.

 

Damage goes from mediocre to fine depending on what spec you want to run. If you're getting 130k damage in the WZ and think you're working pretty hard, you're probably in a low DPS spec, even if you finish #3 on the list of DPS. If you're getting 300k-500k, you're in a high DPS spec. I did 3 WZ last night at around 150k in one of the popular specs listed above that I'd been testing for the last 2 weeks and then swapped back to what I previously used and jumped to do 300-400k for the next 3 wz.

 

VG are 'ok' in WZ and I think make a fair contribution. They aren't dominant like Sorcs.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Fafryd

[AutoCocker]

Overall in this case after you play with some new specs etc if your dps still sucks i think it's mainly due to your gear (as i am sure you know). Super Commando offers nothing in terms of dps if your trying to go for a hard hitting VG build.

[ururururu]

no, if you suck at vanguard you're either an inexperienced player or a bad player. your damage or damage+protection should be tops (adjusted for gear).

 

if you are bad at spacing or judging risk then you're going to experience horrible pain with a vanguard in pvp. vanguard requires as many buttons as a sorc and much better judgement of risk & target selection. you have to understand 0-4 meter range, 4-10 meter range, and 11+ range, interrupts, and spacing with other players to play a vanguard properly

 

basically, with your listed posts and complaints for the AWESOME vanguard class -- you are saying you cannot judge risk & target selection. you can try to improve that or you can go back to your sorc. sorc is op and much easier to play than vanguard.

 

just so you don't think I'm completely a troll and only posting to annoy you... get out of the tactics spec. tactics requires the most experience and proper positioning.

 

specs to try:

21/2/18 (parakeet)

4/6/31 (standard pvp rdps/assault. watch your ammo, interleave hammer shot a lot.)

Edited February 15, 2012 by ururururu

[sanctified]

I enjoy my Vanguard. I find it nice playing a tank that can hit hard. Pretty much abandoned my powertech for it.

[ururururu]

I enjoy my Vanguard. I find it nice playing a tank that can hit hard. Pretty much abandoned my powertech for it.

 

you realize powertech and vanguard are the same class right?

 

(although one could argue powertech is more fun to play and vanguard is more fun to look at.)

[VragonBral]

you realize powertech and vanguard are the same class right?

 

(although one could argue powertech is more fun to play and vanguard is more fun to look at.)

 

Hey! I prefer my Vanguard over my Powertech. More fun in my opinion. Enjoy the animations more. Prefer the story. Enjoy more WZ's and Ilum with the stacked odd's. It just is more exciting for me then the BH-Pyro

[ururururu]

I believe everything except the "enjoy vanguard animations more (than powertech)".

[VragonBral]

The only ones I don't like are the Dodge, Mortar and FA issues. But you know about those.

[TehMerc]

If I could have been a republic bounty hunter without the silly rocket punch animations I woulda done it in a heart beat, Boba Fett was by far my favorite star wars character. Aside from Mortar Volley and Full Auto being screwy, I still enjoy my vanguard immensely but the army thing is a drag sometimes, still it's been quite fun.

[sanctified]

you realize powertech and vanguard are the same class right?

 

(although one could argue powertech is more fun to play and vanguard is more fun to look at.)

 

Of course I do. It's just I prefer the trooper Armor to Mandalorian gear. I feel I look cooler at level 30 on my VG than I did at level 50 with my Bucket head.

[Zakmonster]

no, if you suck at vanguard you're either an inexperienced player or a bad player. your damage or damage+protection should be tops (adjusted for gear).

 

if you are bad at spacing or judging risk then you're going to experience horrible pain with a vanguard in pvp. vanguard requires as many buttons as a sorc and much better judgement of risk & target selection. you have to understand 0-4 meter range, 4-10 meter range, and 11+ range, interrupts, and spacing with other players to play a vanguard properly

 

basically, with your listed posts and complaints for the AWESOME vanguard class -- you are saying you cannot judge risk & target selection. you can try to improve that or you can go back to your sorc. sorc is op and much easier to play than vanguard.

 

just so you don't think I'm completely a troll and only posting to annoy you... get out of the tactics spec. tactics requires the most experience and proper positioning.

 

specs to try:

21/2/18 (parakeet)

4/6/31 (standard pvp rdps/assault. watch your ammo, interleave hammer shot a lot.)

 

 

This is pretty much it. The one strength about Vanguard (in my experience) is its relatively lack of flashiness. Its a pretty subtle class and if you're standing ~10m away, firing at a distracted opponent, they probably won't notice you until you run up to them and hit them with a 2k Stockstrike crit.

 

It's also an unbelievably mobile class and you have the ability to operate at all three ranges (melee, mid and long). The effectiveness varies depending on spec, but the option is still there. In PvP, I rarely, if ever, stop moving. This is especially true when I'm up against Warriors and certain Sorcs and mercs.

 

As a Vanguard, I find that I crumble under focus fire pretty quickly, unless I have a healer. Your best role is harassing the opponents with CC, interrupts and snares and applying quick burst damage to finish the ones at low health.

 

Both Assault spec and Shield spec have on-demand snares, which really helps in Voidstar and Huttball.

 

It's an effective class in PvP. It won't blow your socks off, but you'll rarely ever feel useless (assuming you're playing it right).

[Proppa]

no, if you suck at vanguard you're either an inexperienced player or a bad player. your damage or damage+protection should be tops (adjusted for gear).

 

if you are bad at spacing or judging risk then you're going to experience horrible pain with a vanguard in pvp. vanguard requires as many buttons as a sorc and much better judgement of risk & target selection. you have to understand 0-4 meter range, 4-10 meter range, and 11+ range, interrupts, and spacing with other players to play a vanguard properly

 

basically, with your listed posts and complaints for the AWESOME vanguard class -- you are saying you cannot judge risk & target selection. you can try to improve that or you can go back to your sorc. sorc is op and much easier to play than vanguard.

 

just so you don't think I'm completely a troll and only posting to annoy you... get out of the tactics spec. tactics requires the most experience and proper positioning.

 

specs to try:

21/2/18 (parakeet)

4/6/31 (standard pvp rdps/assault. watch your ammo, interleave hammer shot a lot.)

 

I don't think I'm a bad player, I was as prepared for 50 as I could be (Had 5 PvP weapons, which I stripped the Enhancements off) so I could have 90 (3%~ expertise) to start with, aswell as 6 Champion Bags to open immidiately, giving me enough to buy a couple of pieces of champ gear. I crafted lvl 49/50 Prototype implants which had Augment slots, I bought a prototype earpiece with augment slot. My gear was all Orange with 49+ Mods etc, or purple with augment etc.

 

I also don't push into the middle of a battle, I will Harpoon players onto the fire in huttball the ball carrier or whomever. I will float guard on any one I see healing. I will throw out Taunt/AE taunt on several targets too. I had a game where I had a good healer, which really made the difference, I ended with 75k protection, 0 deaths (Sage also had 0 deaths). We held the right Node against many players.

 

Whereas, on my Sorc I had the ability to heal myself up for 5k every 2.5s roughly, which was just under a 1/3rd of his hps with Bubble too the surviviability seemed much better. I got bored of the sorc because if was too easy and there were too many of them. And I was bored with the Imps in general due to the over-pop.

 

But it's the times you get caught out, it just seem's that for sacrifice in DPS for the Tactics spec, that you didn't really yield enough Defence to compensate for the loss. It's easier to be able to do better DPS and drop the target than to stand and get beat down.

 

I just guess I'm venting, the server I play on seem's pretty bad with hardly any healers who know what to do. Yet the Imp's always seem to have plenty of healers.

 

The numbers I see on this server also seem much lower than what I saw on Scepter of Ragnos as imps, I could get 500k combo of DPS/Heals on my sorc, with Marauders pushing 500k. On the Shadow Runner, I don't think I've been in a warzone where anyone has came close to 300k, let alone higher.

 

The difference between servers seem's to be huge.

 

Also, I've been trying depserately to get on HM Flashpoints so I can get Biometric Crystal Alloy so that I can get my Rakata pots, but no one seem's to do them.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Proppa

[moomtazz]

Could be a big populatiOn difference between those servers. Also consider that if one server was opened at release but the other was opened later, there will be a noticable difference in the number of BM 50s so you could see that difference in numbers.

[Ossos]

I don't think I'm a bad player, I was as prepared for 50 as I could be (Had 5 PvP weapons, which I stripped the Enhancements off) so I could have 90 (3%~ expertise) to start with, aswell as 6 Champion Bags to open immidiately, giving me enough to buy a couple of pieces of champ gear. I crafted lvl 49/50 Prototype implants which had Augment slots, I bought a prototype earpiece with augment slot. My gear was all Orange with 49+ Mods etc, or purple with augment etc.

 

I also don't push into the middle of a battle, I will Harpoon players onto the fire in huttball the ball carrier or whomever. I will float guard on any one I see healing. I will throw out Taunt/AE taunt on several targets too. I had a game where I had a good healer, which really made the difference, I ended with 75k protection, 0 deaths (Sage also had 0 deaths). We held the right Node against many players.

 

Whereas, on my Sorc I had the ability to heal myself up for 5k every 2.5s roughly, which was just under a 1/3rd of his hps with Bubble too the surviviability seemed much better. I got bored of the sorc because if was too easy and there were too many of them. And I was bored with the Imps in general due to the over-pop.

 

But it's the times you get caught out, it just seem's that for sacrifice in DPS for the Tactics spec, that you didn't really yield enough Defence to compensate for the loss. It's easier to be able to do better DPS and drop the target than to stand and get beat down.

 

I just guess I'm venting, the server I play on seem's pretty bad with hardly any healers who know what to do. Yet the Imp's always seem to have plenty of healers.

 

The numbers I see on this server also seem much lower than what I saw on Scepter of Ragnos as imps, I could get 500k combo of DPS/Heals on my sorc, with Marauders pushing 500k. On the Shadow Runner, I don't think I've been in a warzone where anyone has came close to 300k, let alone higher.

 

The difference between servers seem's to be huge.

 

Also, I've been trying depserately to get on HM Flashpoints so I can get Biometric Crystal Alloy so that I can get my Rakata pots, but no one seem's to do them.

 

 

 

I think you mentioned that you ran with something along the lines of the Ironfist spec but were using Plasma Cell. Try again and use Ion Cell. Guard a healer or a Sentinel and stay with them. If you're in a fray, lets say Alderran center turret, you want to be juuust on the outside of that bruha, not way on the outside of it.

 

Focus on people who are low on health. Make yourself into the "Target Assist" guy, burning down guys who are lower on health/trying to make a run for it/tying up a healer.

 

You'll find that in this roll you are less likely to be targeted by the mass of opposing players and burned quickly, and that although your damage isn't sky high, you're effectively burning down people who are experiencing too much tunnel vision.

 

If you get focued on by lets say a...Marauder. Kite them, Cry-Grenade and move. Slow them down, make them chase you. Take them out of the fight while continuing to harrass others; use your charge/leap as an escape vs. a gap closer.

 

Vanguards offer a very dynamic style of play that is extremely unique to the Vanguard/PT classes. A stand-up, toe-the-line, in the trenches type style of fighting is NOT where you shine.

 

Always remember, by yourself you're middle of the road. With just a few heals here and there by that Sage your guarding, and you're darn near godlike.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Ossos