TalkingDinosaur Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I actually do understand it, but they forgot to add a Mandalorian faction, which would of along the lines of what I am talking about. So, left with evil empire or pansy Republic. /facepalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commanche Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 What? The whole point of LS and DS is that you get to run around rescuing/killing anyone you want no matter what side you are on. The thing that really annoys me about the stories is that you get LS for being a sycophantic do-gooder (pansy) and DS for being a psychopath. Is there no manipulative LS/DS anywhere? That'd be far more fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfiereDBC Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Fact is that the Empire is racist, pro-slavery and "evil" in most of its aspects, basically one-dimensional. But the Republic is not "good" as the Alliance is, as playing rep you can see a lot of corruption and different ways of thinking (you can find a pro-imp senator, for example). The Alliance also is more one-dimensional than the horde. The horde had the forsaken (generally evil, look at the chemical warfare in cata), the honorable taurens and the obsessed sith-like blood elves. So basically Rep = Horde, Imp = Alliance. Edited February 17, 2012 by AlfiereDBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Issue is: BW always focuses on the Empire as pure bad guys, blood thirsty and murderous killing machines. This is very black/white and not levels of grey. The Sith are fueled by passions, not purely rage. Happyness, Love, Hate, Friendship, etc. Whatever the emotion is, the Sith embrace it fully, where the Jedi attempt to be without emotions which will cloud their decisions. Sadly this tends to translate into: jedi are super nice people (which is pretty untrue) sith are super bad people (which reading cannon books, seems pretty untrue). What is true is the chance of a bad guy sith is much higher, but to portray every sith as a super blood thirsty guy is a bit much I feel. Yes because Sith have always handed out flowers to their freinds wich they love so much....... Stop trying to justify a philosophy wich is dominated by darkness. FYI, The "unifying force" is a complete lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guildrum Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Fact is that the Empire is racist, pro-slavery and "evil" in most of its aspects, basically one-dimensional. But the Republic is not "good" as the Alliance is, as playing rep you can see a lot of corruption and different ways of thinking (you can find a pro-imp senator, for example). The Alliance also is more one-dimensional than the horde. The horde had the forsaken (generally evil, look at the chemical warfare in cata), the honorable taurens and the obsessed sith-like blood elves. So basically Rep = Horde, Imp = Alliance. I have always viewed the Horde as evil because they put up with evil. I mean, the Forsaken were pretty much pissed off at the fact that they were killed and raised into undead-ness, and so what do they do? "Hey, let's go make MORE undead so they can also know our pain!", the honorable Tauren aren't that honorable when they turn a blind eye to obvious crimes and cruelties. Likewise, how I view the Empire. Sure, there may be some good (read: Light side) people, but as they continue to just ignore the genocide, slavery, racism, and sexism, they aren't that good. I view the Republic the same way, only to a lesser degree. (ie, there is plenty of corruption and such, but no genocides, and for the most part, you get to try to stamp out said corruption.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfiereDBC Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 the honorable Tauren aren't that honorable when they turn a blind eye to obvious crimes and cruelties. Well, it's not always like that. Voljinn basically threatened Garrosh becase they don't share the same political view, Garrosh had forbidden Sylvanas the use of the plague but she's using it anyway, Thrall is not so bad and his Earthen Ring receives support from the Alliance. Remember also that orcs never were truly evil, as they were enslaved and corrupted by the legion. I mean, the horde is complex in its mechanic, just like the republic. Likewise, how I view the Empire. Sure, there may be some good (read: Light side) people, but as they continue to just ignore the genocide, slavery, racism, and sexism, they aren't that good. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psloan Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Who says the Empire is Evil? they just have a different point of view then the republic following a different code of ethics no where in their code does it state "be evil" or "destory the universe" they just preach power and strength as a means of life. the jedi are really the only group who define themselves as "good" or "keepers of the peace" but this is just a propaganda tool at best. would you consider doing nothing during the mandaloran wars "keeping the peace" i wouldnt. im reality neither side is good or evil but simply fighting for different beliefs very similiar to the Crusades or any other religious wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PriestOfSin Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Good and Evil are just terms... they are viewed differently depending on the culture you're in. Killing little girls because they were not boys seems barbaric to most of us, but it was (apparently) business as usual in ancient eastern cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyriaFrost Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 im reality neither side is good or evil but simply fighting for different beliefs very similiar to the Crusades or any other religious wars. Nope. The empire is evil. It makes no bones about it. They endorse/encourage slavery, torture, and the destruction of anyone who openly questions them. Their leaders use fear and threats of death and torture to keep the population in line, and will betray or destroy even their most accomplished/loyal servants the moment they fail them even once. While the republic isn't the "shining beacon of good", the empire is in no way, shape or form even remotely "neutral". They're the bad guys. Period. The republic is TRYING to be the good guys, but they're riddled with corrupt politicians and scumbags trying to take advantage of that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psloan Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Nope. The empire is evil. It makes no bones about it. They endorse/encourage slavery, torture, and the destruction of anyone who openly questions this is exactly what im saying YOU think slavery and torture is a evil but to THEM it isnt evil just a Necessary tool to keep control. one might says its evil to support a corrupt government which would make the Republic the "bad guys" Their leaders use fear and threats of death and torture to keep the population in line, and will betray or destroy even their most accomplished/loyal servants the moment they fail them even once. Caesar , napoleon and Bush jr. are notoris for using fear and torture to keep people in line but they arent considered evil. While the republic isn't the "shining beacon of good", the empire is in no way, shape or form even remotely "neutral". They're the bad guys. Period. The republic is TRYING to be the good guys, but they're riddled with corrupt politicians and scumbags trying to take advantage of that fact. my whole point was their is no neutral everyone has opinions you cant choose good or evil because your opinions arent the same. Also thanks for Replying i enjoy a good discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyriaFrost Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 my whole point was their is no neutral everyone has opinions you cant choose good or evil because your opinions arent the same. Also thanks for Replying i enjoy a good discussion If you had a society that ritualistically tortured and killed anyone who spoke more than one word, ate their flesh, then beat the rest of their family to death with their bones, it would be considered "normal" and "acceptable" to that society. Does that make it right? Of course not. You're trying to justify behavior by arguing that "they consider it normal". Torturing people purely for amusement, killing people because they looked at you funny, keeping people locked in permanent servitude, and the like is not ever a "neutral" concept. Yes, there are societies that did wicked things in the past. They were largely considered to be rather vicious and repugnant. The empire is not "neutral" at all. They are an evil empire, ruled by tyrants and murderers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I love the "but evil is good to them...murder, slavery, genocide, racism, ****, ect. are acceptable to them, it's thier point of veiw" nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhythmOfTheRain Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Grey = best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDeangelis Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Why would i want to play the Horde? Sith are WAY better. If i had the choice i would point the Death Star towards Azeroth. I'll take the "Evil" and Ruthless Sith over the Horde anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swids Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Star Wars has never had any character depth. Are you *********** kidding me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenMachine Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 The alliance is actually the empire. You spend 90% of the time dealing with insurrections and faction wars rather than with the republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jornas Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) It's not just the Forsaken who are evil in the Horde. Goblins are amoral, completely mercenary, and willing to stomp on anyone or anything that gets in the way of making profits. Blood elves are just as power hungry and driven by hate/revenge as the Sith. The only difference I can see is the Blood Elves don't regularly murder each other like Sith Lords. The Trolls are at best reformed savages. The vast majority of Troll tribes in the world are still incredibly evil. So that leaves just the Orcs and Tauren as honorable, misunderstood good guys. Meanwhile SWTOR has two class archetypes that can reasonably be played as "good." Depending on your choices, the imperial agent can be an altruistic defender of the average Imperial citizens. You can also play a Bounty Hunter with a strong personal code. I recognize that you can play a good Sith, but it seems that the lightside choices are just a shade less evil than the darkside choices (killing a prisoner quickly versus torturing them). At any rate, just wanted to point out that the Horde overall could be considered an evil faction. Edited February 18, 2012 by Jornas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlaDOSowen Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Whoever say's this game is black-and-white, and that the empire is all evil, needs to talk to Chuck Norris. And, of course, play an Imperial Agent. Not once have I been forced to do something evil as an IA Edited February 18, 2012 by GlaDOSowen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanez Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 we kinda are the horde, just a few differences, some people are still convinced sith = evil, Which is untrue, while all the evidence proves its untrue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 EVERYONE FORGETS ABOUT US MANDALORIANS. Want to join faction pride, honor, and selfless duty to ones self? Make a Bounty Hunter and Join the Mandalorians We Want you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunazen Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 OP, I've found it rather easy to play a good Imperial operative and a neutral Sith Inq. I'd imagine the same could be said on the other side. They just need to implement neutral faction rewards (as they've said they would.... someday). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead_Ted Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 If you like the Horde, go republic. Especially the Jedi classes, they are very in tune with nature and can give you that same tribal feel that the Horde has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiralai Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) The Empire as a whole might be evil, but you can still be an individual who isn't. I started a Light Side Bounty Hunter recently and I haven't had any issue with it. I get plenty of chances to play the "good guy" (well, girl) and it doesn't feel forced. I just don't take the side quests where you are required to be an ***. (And in all honesty there aren't really that many of those, even on the hellhole that is Hutta.) Edit: Now that I think about it, I feel like I've done more good deeds in the first 10 levels of Bounty Hunter than I did in the first 10 levels of Jedi Consular. Edited February 19, 2012 by Kiralai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Where is the misunderstood honorable bad guys? And don't tell me the Empire is the Horde, because the Empire is composed of selfish evil villians all trying to kill each other as well as everyone else. Republic = Alliance Empire = Burning Crusade or maybe the Scourge I miss faction pride =( Star Wars is not World of Warcraft. Star Wars is a space fantasy designed to emulate the classic movie serials of the 1940's and 1950's. There are honorable bad guys in this game, they aren't misunderstood though, in Star Wars villains are villains. I am reminded of the lyrics contained in a song by filk artist Tom Smith: "How many demons are in cyberspace who possess every Hacker's will? How many members of the master race will come closing in for the kill? How many Xenomorphs will change their face and then hunt us down for a thrill? Give me a villain who's got style and grace and a little bit of fencing skill. They used to be angular, sneering, and bold if someone got killed even they were appalled. They'd try to marry the heroine, no thought of (censored by poster) and they sure as heck knew how to wear a cape! They never tortured and they never lied, they'd honor a promise even if it meant they died, let's find a villain with professional pride." I love these kinds of villains, the classic mustache twirling baddie as it were. They fit in Star Wars but they aren't "misunderstood" they are completely open and honest about being villains. The other kind of villain in Star Wars is the classic Sith. They are evil, self-serving, manipulative, and will kill anything or anyone that got in their path. They will betray any ally and they have no real friends, only people that they can use later. If a Star Wars classic Sith ever saves you from a bad situation it means one of three things: 1. They think that they will be able to manipulate you. 2. They think that they will be able to use you. 3. They think that they will be able to get something from you. Even a Light Side Sith has these motivations. Edited February 19, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Star Wars is not World of Warcraft. Star Wars is a space fantasy designed to emulate the classic movie serials of the 1940's and 1950's. There are honorable bad guys in this game, they aren't misunderstood though, in Star Wars villains are villains. I am reminded of the lyrics contained in a song by filk artist Tom Smith: "How many demons are in cyberspace who possess every Hacker's will? How many members of the master race will come closing in for the kill? How many Xenomorphs will change their face and then hunt us down for a thrill? Give me a villain who's got style and grace and a little bit of fencing skill. They used to be angular, sneering, and bold if someone got killed even they were appalled. They'd try to marry the heroine, no thought of (censored by poster) and they sure as heck knew how to wear a cape! They never tortured and they never lied, they'd honor a promise even if it meant they died, let's find a villain with professional pride." I love these kinds of villains, the classic mustache twirling baddie as it were. They fit in Star Wars but they aren't "misunderstood" they are completely open and honest about being villains. The other kind of villain in Star Wars is the classic Sith. They are evil, self-serving, manipulative, and will kill anything or anyone that got in their path. They will betray any ally and they have no real friends, only people that they can use later. If a Star Wars classic Sith ever saves you from a bad situation it means one of three things: 1. They think that they will be able to manipulate you. 2. They think that they will be able to use you. 3. They think that they will be able to get something from you. Even a Light Side Sith has these motivations. You sire, are completely and utterly wrong. First you completely bypass the existence of an honorable, "misunderstood", and violent culture in the star wars universe called Mandalorians, that at many times during Kotor and ToR precent themselves as the prime "villains" if not principal allies to the sith. That said, Siths are indeed evil-villainy type IF and only IF you were to completely ignore the existance of Sith like Lord Scourge (Dark Side Sith, who will struggle to prevent the destruction of the universe.) Star Wars is not as black and white as you make it sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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