Pros and Cons of Dual Advanced Classes

[Reynnas]

I'll compile a list of why and why there shouldn't be dual advanced classes based on feedback and my own opinions, as well as solutions to allowing them. I'll start off by listing why I think there should be both advanced classes available(at a certain point).

 

Pros/Why

-Feeling more bonded to your character

-Less time spent leveling alts(depends on whether or not you enjoy it)

-Less time spent gearing alts(datacrons especially)

-More trade due to people(who don't enjoy leveling alts) buying craftable items for both of their ACs

 

 

Cons/Why Not

-People may need for other AC/Loot-whoring/Spec-swappers(Solution: Master looter or need only available if the armor type is equippable for that AC; Due to no cross-realm LFG, you don't have to group with a person again[ignore them])

-Less diversity(Switching between two characters isn't any more diverse than using the same character)

-Possibly less materials/crafted items for certain professions due to limit on a single character

-ACs are completely different classes(True to an extent, but each AC shares the same primary stats so ACs are really just different playstyles)

-Breaks the game(No reason needed, apparently)

 

 

Solutions

-At level 50, make a quest chain for each class(large preferably) that allows you to respec one or both of your specs to either AC aka you can have one spec as a sage and one as a shadow, both shadows and the ability to change one to sage, etc. and only have to pay normal respec price to to switch a spec between either AC.

-"Leave as is. ;)"

 

This is not what BioWare says, it's pros and cons, and your opinions/thoughts on them.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Reynnas
Clarification/Additional Reasons

[Reynnas]

Bump. I'd like some valid reasons as to why there should and shouldn't be as well as solutions.

[TheSuperD]

Advanced classes aren't so much "specs" as they are choosing an entire class. If you're familiar with WoW, it would be like allowing players to dual-spec back and forth between Warrior and Death Knight, or between Warlock and Mage.

 

It really borders on letting people level one character to 50 and then just change it to whatever class they want. Bioware has already said that they will eventually allow dual talent specs, so you will be able to change between tank and dps and healer depending on your class. If you want something completely different, you're just going to have to suck it up and level another character. The class quests are entertaining enough that I don't think this is a huge problem.

[Drasill]

Why would having have dual advanced class cause you to feel more bonded to your character? If anything that would have the opposite affect.

[Surakis]

Advanced classes aren't so much "specs" as they are choosing an entire class. If you're familiar with WoW, it would be like allowing players to dual-spec back and forth between Warrior and Death Knight, or between Warlock and Mage.

 

ACs are not classes. You choose your class, like Jedi Knight, at the creation point.

[xSerge]

Advanced classes aren't so much "specs" as they are choosing an entire class. If you're familiar with WoW, it would be like allowing players to dual-spec back and forth between Warrior and Death Knight, or between Warlock and Mage.

No its not.

This sort of BS is what Bioware wants you to believe.

 

Actually its more like:

 

Warrior >>> lvl 10

--------Chose:

Arms + Protections || Arms + Fury

 

(Since some of talents trees are SHARED for both "advanced specs")

 

They just want you to roll more alts and play(pay) more.

[TheSuperD]

ACs are not classes. You choose your class, like Jedi Knight, at the creation point.

 

Yes advanced CLASSES are classes. You choose them at the beginning of your levelling process once you get used to the basic play style of the game. This game has 8 classes, not 4.

[Reynnas]

Why would having have dual advanced class cause you to feel more bonded to your character? If anything that would have the opposite affect.

 

I would feel more bonded because I would be able to spend more time on that character making him more "powerful", and not have to whore myself to alts just to play a different playstyle with the same stats.

[Yaur]

ACs are not classes. You choose your class, like Jedi Knight, at the creation point.

Bioware disagrees.

[TheSuperD]

No its not.

This sort of BS is what Bioware wants you to believe.

 

Actually its more like:

 

Warrior >>> lvl 10

--------Chose:

Arms + Protections || Arms + Fury

 

(Since some of talents trees are SHARED for both "advanced specs")

 

They just want you to roll more alts and play(pay) more.

 

More like hit 10, choose a class, THEN choose the spec.

[Reynnas]

Yes advanced CLASSES are classes. You choose them at the beginning of your levelling process once you get used to the basic play style of the game. This game has 8 classes, not 4.

 

If each AC is so much different, then the general class chosen at the beginning doesn't really prepare you for either of those, or it chooses one of those ACs to prepare you for.

[BaronOfWar]

ACs are not classes. You choose your class, like Jedi Knight, at the creation point.

 

Get your facts right before you post. IT has been stated many times by devs that they are in fact CLASSES.

 

Honestly they probably would have been different classes from the start but then that would of meant more dev time because of class stories.

 

You already have different and feasible rolls within each AC. (besides the pure DPS ones)

Letting you change your advanced class at will would ruin replay value. The references above to WoW make perfect sense.

 

I could see a one time change allowance perhaps. Somewhere in the mid level range. Having the ability to be a tank, a dps, or a healer in the press of a button... is that what you REALLY want? I want to see growth in the game and I feel that this change would just drop sub numbers over the long run. IMO anyway...

[Coiffio]

You already pointed out why I hope this is never implemented OP. Some jack hole being in the group and then rolling on items for their "other" AC, completely disregarding the ones present who can use it. This happened in wow, and it just ticked me off. If you queued as a tank, then stop taking the dps gear for your "other spec"

[Surakis]

Yes advanced CLASSES are classes. You choose them at the beginning of your levelling process once you get used to the basic play style of the game. This game has 8 classes, not 4.

 

No, there is not. Using your WoW example, a Mage and Warrior don't share 1/2 their class skills. A Guardian and Sentinel do.

[Daellia]

The class quests are entertaining enough that I don't think this is a huge problem.

 

That's the one major issue, and the only really truly justified reason I've seen for allowing AC changes. If you level a new character up as the other AC, you're going through the same story quest again. Talk about boring.

 

Frankly, I'd even be fine with it if the class chains were largely the same in theme and plot, as long as there were differences based on the class. For example, the Inquisitor. A sorcerer, being interested in the mysteries of the force, does the whole relic-gathering thing that is the current Act 1 SI class chain. Since the assassin focuses more on martial combat and infiltration, however, their class chain would involve hunting down and killing the owners of the relics (which, unlike the Sorc chain, would have already been found by others). Basic plot is the same: find the relics for the ritual. However, the details and actual quests are vastly different.

 

If this were put in, changing ACs would lose a fair chunk of its support (though certainly not all), and lose the vast majority of its justification. Leveling the other AC would be a completely different experience from the first one, so encouraging people to simply reroll a new character of the other AC would be justified. As it stands now, leveling a character of the other AC is simply too tedious and repetitive to really be worthwhile.

[Reynnas]

No its not.

This sort of BS is what Bioware wants you to believe.

 

Actually its more like:

 

Warrior >>> lvl 10

--------Chose:

Arms + Protections || Arms + Fury

 

(Since some of talents trees are SHARED for both "advanced specs")

 

They just want you to roll more alts and play(pay) more.

 

I'd have to agree, except that if I have to spend more time leveling alts, I'd spend less time playing the game because I don't enjoy leveling(very much in SWTOR, at least) and possibly even quit because I wouldn't be spending the majority of my time doing what I enjoy. This has been the most enjoyable MMO leveling experience that I've ever had, but to do the exact same quests twice for each class, especially after grinding 4 characters to 85, and 4 others anywhere from 60-80, I just can't stand repetitiveness.

[BaronOfWar]

No, there is not. Using your WoW example, a Mage and Warrior don't share 1/2 their class skills. A Guardian and Sentinel do.

 

Copied and pasted from the Community Q & A this past Friday. BTW this is not the first post from a dev on the subject.

 

*Aurozia: Will there be a dual specialization system in the future? Will there be a possibility of changing advance classes as well?

 

Daniel Erickson: We have no plans for switching advanced classes - which we see as fundamentally different class designs- but dual spec is in the works and coming soon.*

[Terko_Koslah]

Lets talk about faction change, as in dual-faction or dual-classes. This is not d&d, sadly. I'would be a knight/consular. Even better if we could select our abilities ourselves.

[Surakis]

Copied and pasted from the Community Q & A this past Friday. BTW this is not the first post from a dev on the subject.

 

*Aurozia: Will there be a dual specialization system in the future? Will there be a possibility of changing advance classes as well?

 

Daniel Erickson: We have no plans for switching advanced classes - which we see as fundamentally different class designs- but dual spec is in the works and coming soon.*

 

Argument from authority

 

But, PS: They also say here

 

Choosing Your Class

 

Each Class is represented with a visual icon at the bottom of your game window. This is the single most important choice that you will ever make in Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, as your Class not only determines your combat style and how to play, but it also determines which of the unique stories you will experience! To help you in this decision, we’ve listed each of the playable classes below:

 

Republic

•Jedi Knight

Strong-willed and powerful fighters, Jedi Knights have dedicated themselves to honing both their minds and bodies.

•Jedi Consular

The Jedi Consular uses their mastery of the Force to both defend the Republic and protect their allies.

•Smuggler

Highly adaptable to almost every situation, Smugglers rely on their guile and their smarts to slip out of any tight spot.

•Trooper

The Trooper is the defender of the Republic, wielding heavy weapons and armor on the frontlines.

 

The Sith Empire

•Sith Warrior

Using their rage to fuel their power, the Sith Warrior is among the most feared combatants in the galaxy.

•Sith Inquisitor

Fueled by the Dark Side, Sith Inquisitors channel their hatred into powerful attacks that cripple their foes.

•Imperial Agent

The eyes and ears of the Empire, Imperial Agents keep to the shadows to carry out the Emperor’s orders.

•Bounty Hunter

Bounty Hunters rely on the latest black market tech and weapons to stalk and eventually eliminate their targets.

 

The class you choose to play will also play a deciding factor in the role that you will ultimately fill within a group. In Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, there are three main roles that you can take on:

•Tanks lead the charge into battle, rushing headlong into the fight and taking the brunt of the enemy’s attacks in support of your allies. Tanks utilize heavy armor and defensive bonuses to better absorb the extra pounding they receive.

 

Classes that can play Tanks:

◦Jedi Knight, Sith Warrior, Bounty Hunter, Trooper, Jedi Consular, Sith Inquisitor

 

•Damage Dealers, also known as DPS players, will have the most powerful attacks and specialize in offensive combat. Damage Dealers utilize powerful weapons and offensive abilities to stop their enemies dead in their tracks.

 

Classes that can play Damage Dealers:

◦All Classes

 

•Medics, commonly referred to as "healers" in other MMOs, will take on the role of supporting groups by using their abilities to keep their fellow players’ health high during battle. Medics have powerful defensive abilities, as well as skills that replenish health for themselves and their allies.

 

Classes that can play a Medic:

◦Jedi Consular, Sith Inquisitor, Smuggler, Imperial Agent, Trooper, Bounty Hunter

 

So yeah

Edited February 15, 2012 by Surakis

[Voidence]

No, there is not. Using your WoW example, a Mage and Warrior don't share 1/2 their class skills. A Guardian and Sentinel do.

 

Truth is, BW calls them classes, you can disagree all you want, but you cant change FACT that they are classes. Wanna know why? Because BW said so, and well its their game so they are right.

[Ebbikenezer]

OP, why do you list Pros and Cons but only one solution?

 

 

I have a second solution, not even being facetious, just saying it should have been put up there:

 

-Leave it how it is.

[Reynnas]

You already have different and feasible rolls within each AC. (besides the pure DPS ones) Letting you change your advanced class at will would ruin replay value. The references above to WoW make perfect sense.

 

Having the ability to be a tank, a dps, or a healer in the press of a button... is that what you REALLY want? I want to see growth in the game and I feel that this change would just drop sub numbers over the long run. IMO anyway...

 

Many of us don't like to replay the same thing multiple times.

 

That is what I really want. I feel more diversity in having a powerful character rather than spending time on boring alts doing the same thing again. I don't see why it would make people quit because they can still have the same replay value. Having dual AC is an option. IMO it is almost completely benign and it IS completely optional. If your guild needs you to change to another AC, then make a new character, level him up all the way to 50, gear him, and then you can switch between characters, rather than just specs.

[TheSuperD]

If you want to arbitrarily define "class" as something that must be chosen at level 1, then that's your choice. I'll go with the game designer's definition of class.

[Reynnas]

OP, why do you list Pros and Cons but only one solution?

 

 

I have a second solution, not even being facetious, just saying it should have been put up there:

 

-Leave it how it is.

 

Only solution I can think of. ); I will post your solution just for the lols, even though this argument is over whether or not to leave it as is.

[Surakis]

If you want to arbitrarily define "class" as something that must be chosen at level 1, then that's your choice. I'll go with the game designer's definition of class.

 

Arbitrary, eh? Better get on the phone with Bioware and tell em!

 

They say here

 

Choosing Your Class

 

Each Class is represented with a visual icon at the bottom of your game window. This is the single most important choice that you will ever make in Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, as your Class not only determines your combat style and how to play, but it also determines which of the unique stories you will experience! To help you in this decision, we’ve listed each of the playable classes below:

 

Republic

•Jedi Knight

Strong-willed and powerful fighters, Jedi Knights have dedicated themselves to honing both their minds and bodies.

•Jedi Consular

The Jedi Consular uses their mastery of the Force to both defend the Republic and protect their allies.

•Smuggler

Highly adaptable to almost every situation, Smugglers rely on their guile and their smarts to slip out of any tight spot.

•Trooper

The Trooper is the defender of the Republic, wielding heavy weapons and armor on the frontlines.

 

The Sith Empire

•Sith Warrior

Using their rage to fuel their power, the Sith Warrior is among the most feared combatants in the galaxy.

•Sith Inquisitor

Fueled by the Dark Side, Sith Inquisitors channel their hatred into powerful attacks that cripple their foes.

•Imperial Agent

The eyes and ears of the Empire, Imperial Agents keep to the shadows to carry out the Emperor’s orders.

•Bounty Hunter

Bounty Hunters rely on the latest black market tech and weapons to stalk and eventually eliminate their targets.

 

The class you choose to play will also play a deciding factor in the role that you will ultimately fill within a group. In Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, there are three main roles that you can take on:

•Tanks lead the charge into battle, rushing headlong into the fight and taking the brunt of the enemy’s attacks in support of your allies. Tanks utilize heavy armor and defensive bonuses to better absorb the extra pounding they receive.

 

Classes that can play Tanks:

◦Jedi Knight, Sith Warrior, Bounty Hunter, Trooper, Jedi Consular, Sith Inquisitor

 

•Damage Dealers, also known as DPS players, will have the most powerful attacks and specialize in offensive combat. Damage Dealers utilize powerful weapons and offensive abilities to stop their enemies dead in their tracks.

 

Classes that can play Damage Dealers:

◦All Classes

 

•Medics, commonly referred to as "healers" in other MMOs, will take on the role of supporting groups by using their abilities to keep their fellow players’ health high during battle. Medics have powerful defensive abilities, as well as skills that replenish health for themselves and their allies.

 

Classes that can play a Medic:

◦Jedi Consular, Sith Inquisitor, Smuggler, Imperial Agent, Trooper, Bounty Hunter

 

So yeah

Edited February 15, 2012 by Surakis