Boring Static World of SWTOR

[RycheMykola]

Right, just got home and I think I'll make a last post here summing up how I feel about the worlds in the game and how I'd like to see them improved. It is just my opinion so treat it as such - and all my gripes are about things that should not take precedence over bug fixes. And hopefully, this feedback could at least serve as something to have in mind when designing new planets.

 

To start off, I don't consider the worlds to be dead or empty. But I do find them static.

 

What I like:

-The worlds are big and very distinct - each has its own story and flavor

-They look gorgeous and have great color palettes

-They are full of detail, fully handcrafted and have a lot of cool little details (e.g. the "Han Duo" character and the wookiee with the dismantled droid on Hutta)

-I find the quest layout to be very good

-they have distinct areas and landmarks - sure there is recycled content but at least the outdoors feels quite distinct and consistent

 

What could be better:

-They feel more like elaborate movie sets than actual living worlds

-Whilst they have ambiance, they lack dynamic ambiance, i.e. night/day cycles, distinct weather patterns (they exist, but don't feel very "real"), stuff like that

-The interior areas (caves, buildings etc) are pretty similar in most cases (understandable though)

-The NPCs, wildlife etc are a bit too static, one could say they look a bit like mimes doing the same animation over and over again with little variance (e.g. on Alderaan those Tiger beasts could be mobile, and maybe chase nerfs if in close proximity)

-Apart from nodes and quest items there is little interaction with objects in the world - if only for "fluff", it would make the worlds feel more alive. Even pazaak tables and stuff could go a long way in improving the experience

-They do feel a bit constrained and deliberate - and the exhaustion zones smack bang in the middle are annoying

 

I am a fan of the game and am enjoying it for it's merits. But the truth is that Bioware has never been too good at creating truly immersive worlds. The story and voice acting is usually enough to make the game work for me - which is true here as well - but I'm always left with that nagging feeling that the worlds could have been so much more, in all their games.

 

I'm not trying to bash the game. I'm just offering feedback on a point that I think is somewhat weak and could be improved - if not for the already existing planets, for future worlds (Helloween reference here )

Perfect post. the people that say this game fails because there is no day/night or weather, they're fail. It would add a little polish, not the end of the world though.

 

Caves and other areas are copied in all games, look at WOW's caves, they re-use them everywhere.

 

Pazaak and other games would be cool (esp Pazaak with Nar Shaddaa rules!), but I don't know if that would be viewed as "gambling", which would make it a Federal issue and not an issue Bioware wishes to deal with.

[BlutImAuge]

The game just has no soul...

 

+1

 

Still an active subscriber but... I don't know... as much effort as they put into the dialogues, the world seems equally neglected, static, stale and dead. Although the visuals do appeal -- partially due to aesthetics, partially due to nostalgia -- I find no joy traveling through it. Further disheartening is the world's scale being a lie akin to the wallpaper wrapped around the back of an aquarium. The large areas that do exist, however, appear to exist for the purpose of existing as large areas- there really is nothing worth exploring here. I feel as if they made those areas larger than the rest so as to tell me, "look, we've got large, open areas." Simply put, it's a set of corridors disguised as lush vistas... vistas you really do not get to traverse.

 

The game has potential... lots of it... but... I have to agree w/ Farbod in that it has no soul.

 

So many planets, so much lore and so many unique biomes...

 

Very disheartening.

Edited February 15, 2012 by BlutImAuge

[Deewe]

Perfect post. the people that say this game fails because there is no day/night or weather, they're fail. It would add a little polish, not the end of the world though.

 

Caves and other areas are copied in all games, look at WOW's caves, they re-use them everywhere.

 

Pazaak and other games would be cool (esp Pazaak with Nar Shaddaa rules!), but I don't know if that would be viewed as "gambling", which would make it a Federal issue and not an issue Bioware wishes to deal with.

I do agree with archifikoss too, although you are on the wrong track saying day/night or weather aren't important. To the contrary they are part of main features making the world feel less static.

[otakuon]

Ok....I am not seeing how this game is any more static or less "living" then any other Multiplayer game out there. Even compared to some Single player games, there is quite a bit of "life" on the planets. You have NPCs that have random conversations with each other (not to the degree of say, Skyrim, but they do have them), you have patrolling mobs, wildlife, varied terrain, unique looking planets, etc. I get that the game is not like Skyrim or GTA IV...but it's not mean to be. Certain concessions have to be made for a Multiplayer environment. Both gameplay wise and from a performance standpoint.

 

I mean, you go to a world like Couruscant or Nar Shaddaa and there is traffic clogging the skies, you have citizens out doing whatever it is they do. Even planets like Tattoonie which you wold expect to just be vast empty tracks of sand is anything but.

 

Sure, Day/Night cycles and weather would be an interesting mix, but it's not like those sort of features can't be added in later. Plus, then we will hear a bunch of people who complain that they don't like to quest "in the dark".

 

So please give examples of multiplayer games that in your opinion has "life like" worlds and what sorts of features they utilize to create such an environment.

[vanisle]

Ok....I am not seeing how this game is any more static or less "living" then any other Multiplayer game out there. Even compared to some Single player games, there is quite a bit of "life" on the planets. You have NPCs that have random conversations with each other (not to the degree of say, Skyrim, but they do have them), you have patrolling mobs, wildlife, varied terrain, unique looking planets, etc. I get that the game is not like Skyrim or GTA IV...but it's not mean to be. Certain concessions have to be made for a Multiplayer environment. Both gameplay wise and from a performance standpoint.

 

I mean, you go to a world like Couruscant or Nar Shaddaa and there is traffic clogging the skies, you have citizens out doing whatever it is they do. Even planets like Tattoonie which you wold expect to just be vast empty tracks of sand is anything but.

 

Sure, Day/Night cycles and weather would be an interesting mix, but it's not like those sort of features can't be added in later. Plus, then we will hear a bunch of people who complain that they don't like to quest "in the dark".

 

So please give examples of multiplayer games that in your opinion has "life like" worlds and what sorts of features they utilize to create such an environment.

 

^ works for the company

[Opapanax]

I loved the questing. I enjoy my character development. Tython seemed pretty interesting... At first glance.

 

However most worlds are so static and boring. Besides the occasional group of empire or republic soldier standing around or huddled behind a barricade forever shooting over it, the world feels so empty and static.

 

Nothing moves around, there is no hustle and bustle of the world. No NPC events or occurrences. Ilum is supposed to be this big battlefield but really its a bunch of people standing around. Fleet feels so empty if their aren't players running around.

 

Its hard to immerse yourself in such a static and stagnant world. Even older MMOs have made the world feel at least somewhat inhabited and interesting.

 

Ilum would be so much more fun if it was a giant war, full of NPC's running around and fighting each other, instead we get big stupid walkers just sitting there ready for us to walk up to, picnic around it, then if we are bored, shoot a missile at it.

 

<Yawn>

 

Blasphemy...

[vanisle]

Blasphemy...

 

Hardly

 

I think this is a general consensus

 

Give it 6 months

[otakuon]

^ works for the company

 

Ha! Don't we all wish.

 

I am just trying to figure out what this disconnect is between people who see the game in one fashion and those who see it in another.

 

I mean, on one hand, there are people who complain that the planets are too big and take too long to traverse and then we have the people who say they are too small and that the game is too instanced.

 

Which is it?

[vanisle]

Ha! Don't we all wish.

 

I am just trying to figure out what this disconnect is between people who see the game in one fashion and those who see it in another.

 

I mean, on one hand, there are people who complain that the planets are too big and take too long to traverse and then we have the people who say they are too small and that the game is too instanced.

 

Which is it?

 

That same question has been answered over and over already - reread the thread

[tormeanted]

I loved the questing. I enjoy my character development. Tython seemed pretty interesting... At first glance.

 

However most worlds are so static and boring. Besides the occasional group of empire or republic soldier standing around or huddled behind a barricade forever shooting over it, the world feels so empty and static.

 

Nothing moves around, there is no hustle and bustle of the world. No NPC events or occurrences. Ilum is supposed to be this big battlefield but really its a bunch of people standing around. Fleet feels so empty if their aren't players running around.

 

Its hard to immerse yourself in such a static and stagnant world. Even older MMOs have made the world feel at least somewhat inhabited and interesting.

 

Ilum would be so much more fun if it was a giant war, full of NPC's running around and fighting each other, instead we get big stupid walkers just sitting there ready for us to walk up to, picnic around it, then if we are bored, shoot a missile at it.

 

<Yawn>

 

I tried the Tera beta. It provides a stark contrast, very alive! So is Rift.

Maybe the devs will check these out once they figureout how to stop deleting mail.

[mooferz]

If there was an all out NPC war on Ilum, I'd imagine there'd be tons of lag and even more complaints than ever.

[otakuon]

That same question has been answered over and over already - reread the thread

 

Then what is the "standard" that TOR is being compared to? I have played just about every MMO that is in the style of WoW/Rift/TOR and I don't see how TOR is any "worse" then those.

 

Perhaps the greatest fault with TOR is that it was not the second coming of the MMORPG...but if you really thought that that is what it would be, you are delusional. We knew all along that TOR was trying to take the traditional MMO and give it something most lacked: A story. At the very least it put the RPG back into the MMORPG.

[Harpua]

 

So please give examples of multiplayer games that in your opinion has "life like" worlds and what sorts of features they utilize to create such an environment.

 

Say what you may about the late SWG, the one thing it had going for it was dynamic spawns.

 

Weather changed frequently. Planets had day/night cycles. Seasonal events changed the landscape. Ships would come down and unload squads of Stormtroopers. They did a pretty good job of making things seem alive.

 

Here, it's kind of hit and miss. There are area, like Coruscant, where you feel like you have to fight block by block to get anywhere. But there are also plenty of areas where there are people just standing about that you can't interact with. They might as well be paintings on the wall.

[areto]

You get your RP in the conversations, you don't need to have chairs and chickens and details like that. Bioware gave you conversations and now you go, "but where's the soul?" you should be more grateful to your benevolent benefactors.

[Opapanax]

Hardly

 

I think this is a general consensus

 

Give it 6 months

 

Yea I went super /sarcastic on him.. I see it worked as intended.. See Bioware is can be done..

[otakuon]

I tried the Tera beta. It provides a stark contrast, very alive! So is Rift.

Maybe the devs will check these out once they figureout how to stop deleting mail.

 

Ok...can you please comment on how Rift is more "alive" then TOR? I played Rift for 3 months and the game world to me felt more lifeless then TOR. The mobs just stood around and did nothing...they didn't even have conversations with each other. If they did, it was all text based which is easy to ignore. While Rift was technically superior to WoW, it was even MORE bland, and just seemed so tedious.

[otakuon]

Say what you may about the late SWG, the one thing it had going for it was dynamic spawns.

 

Weather changed frequently. Planets had day/night cycles. Seasonal events changed the landscape. Ships would come down and unload squads of Stormtroopers. They did a pretty good job of making things seem alive.

 

Here, it's kind of hit and miss. There are area, like Coruscant, where you feel like you have to fight block by block to get anywhere. But there are also plenty of areas where there are people just standing about that you can't interact with. They might as well be paintings on the wall.

 

Ok...those are valid points. And again, SWG being a sandbox meant the community could take matters into their own hands and leave their own mark on the world. I would love to have that ability in TOR...maybe someday. But sadly, according to the "experts", the "average" consumer does not like sandbox MMOs and so they never get any funding.

[gurugeorge]

I think it's correct to say that during dialogues, the game feels more alive than any MMORPG to date. Also, the way quests are given, through hearing someone give you them in a way that's (usually) engaging, means that "what you have to do" sticks in your mind more naturally, so when you go out into the world there's a certain kind of aliveness even about killing 10 rats that you don't get in any other MMORPG.

 

But that's as far as it goes - as soon as the effect of the dialogue fades, you're in a fairly static-feeling world.

 

I noticed today that in the Hoth orbital station, there were Jedi and Padawans just basically standing around. Not quest givers who one might say have to stay static so they're easily found (although Bethesda gave the lie to that), but just NPCs standing still like statues not actually doing anything. Why even bother having them there if they're going to be just standing stock still, without even any idle animations?

 

On the other hand, sometimes you see more of the potential that the game could have - e.g. groups of techs welding things and agitatedly arguing about something, little groups of people discussing things, the occasional bit of audio (which seems to be bugged) of people discussing things.

 

Game needs quite a bit more "flavour" and movement. What about wildlife? Birds? Fish in the water? What about a ton of just text discussions, jokes, etc., between NPCs (that you could have visible in chat bubbles if you had them on). Cryptic are really good at that - in both CoX and CO, they give their urban environments tremendous life by having an absolute ton of witty dialogue going on between NPCs all the time, some of it referring to you the player as you pass by - not only that, but the dialogue changes over months, with a bit of rotation.

 

Weather and a day/night cycle (even just a bit of night now and then) would add to the aliveness of SWTOR immensely too, but I doubt it will ever come the way the game is. I think if they could have done it, it would be in already.

 

So yeah, it's kind of paradoxical - the world feels hugely alive in dialogues, and a bit below par, mostly, at other times, when you're just wandering around.

Edited February 15, 2012 by gurugeorge

[vanisle]

It's easy to say we shouldn't expect groundbreaking changes - but why is that?

 

Why should we expect more of the same?

 

Hey everybody! There is a new flavor of vanilla called VANILLA! Come try it quick!

 

Same $H@T Different Pile - sadly

 

Not honestly a new game to me, I've played alot of them as well

 

The year is 2012, to say we shouldn't expect alot, well...that's just accepting junk reiterated

[otakuon]

So yeah, it's kind of paradoxical - the world feels hugely alive in dialogues, and a bit below par, mostly, at other times, when you're just wandering around.

 

Maybe that's a side effect of having the fully voiced parts of the game. Those sequences are so immersive that when you get dumped back into the standard MMO "world", the transition is a bit more abrupt then what you find in other MMOs (which don't have said transitions).

[Dantragk]

Part of the issue is the mobs you can't even click... or high light... or anything. They're just... there.

[vanisle]

Maybe that's a side effect of having the fully voiced parts of the game. Those sequences are so immersive that when you get dumped back into the standard MMO "world", the transition is a bit more abrupt then what you find in other MMOs (which don't have said transitions).

 

I wouldn't put it so drastically - I mean maybe some people need to go for a walk outside

 

Big deal - it has voices ... I mean you're putting it like it's a huge deep mind breaking thing ... the year is 2012

[gurugeorge]

Maybe that's a side effect of having the fully voiced parts of the game. Those sequences are so immersive that when you get dumped back into the standard MMO "world", the transition is a bit more abrupt then what you find in other MMOs (which don't have said transitions).

 

Yeah that could be the case - I see your point, actually objectively speaking the game world in SWTOR isn't all that bad in terms of aliveness compared to most MMOs, it's a bit below par but it's not actually terrible, or all that different. Nothing that can't be filled in a bit over time (except maybe weather and day/night).

 

Maybe, indeed, it just subjectively feels a lot more wooden than it objectively is, precisely because of that contrast.

[otakuon]

I wouldn't put it so drastically - I mean maybe some people need to go for a walk outside

 

Big deal - it has voices ... I mean you're putting it like it's a huge deep mind breaking thing ... the year is 2012

 

Well, it's definitely a major change from previous MMOs where you just got a wall of text that you never bothered to read and just clicked accept. The scene didn't even change.

 

And you are right...people are getting themselves way too worked up over a computer game.

[vanisle]

oddly enough even with voices I still hit spacebar

 

Blah blah blah

 

Just tell me how many womp rats to kill

 

Every kill task quest I ever receive has me thinking - I thought this was ground breaking?

 

I don't really think I'm a long term player tbh - unless things get radically different - I was already done with WoW and all the rest. I just somehow thought this may be new and fresh