Regarding Merciless Slash

[firesprite_ea]

Good day all!

 

I have been playing compbat sentinel for quite a while, but have tested both focust and watchman specs. Ran with focus for a couple of days and watchman for abt a week. However I decided that dots are not my kind of thing and dot based dmg is not exactly ideal to take out adds.

 

Now that we have started HM FP I decided to give it another try. I can not say exactly if we kill faster or not (well, we killed everything fast before) but I did notice one thing that I found out very weird and puzzling.

 

Merciless Strike. Top tier ability that is supposed to be a supermegadmg ability. And yet .. it is not. For some reason I hit with MS for 800-1500 on average. I think i went as far as 3000 one time. That is extremely weird as my normal slash hits for 1000+ and in most cases for abt 2000 (buffed crit chance is ~40% and crit mult ~94%).

So basically an ability that eats 5 focus is far inferior than my average 3 focus one. And given that I can do two slash attacks for the same price.... THe only use for that ability is hoping it ends cauterize CD and that is not exactly that good in my book.

 

So, can anyone pls advise on above?

 

P.S. With combat blade storm always hits for ~2800/3200. Thus making it far superior to MS both in terms of focus costs (2 vs 5), distance (10vs4) and CD (9 vs 15. (ofc on the 2,3rd cd is lower, but i am taking basic one in account).

[Absit]

Are you complaining that your DoT tree doesn't have a super bursty top tier skill like the burst tree?

[firesprite_ea]

Are you complaining that your DoT tree doesn't have a super bursty top tier skill like the burst tree?

 

I am confused as the top tier skill, that is from the description is supposed to be bursty (and I seriously think it belongs to combat tree) is actually weaker than the regular attack.

[abylities]

Your dots build doesn't have a bursty top tier skill... So play combat?

[McVade]

Merciless Slash scales much better with gear. It hit like a wet noodle for me, but when I got 2 Champion sabers, it routinely hits for 3000-3400 in PvE. Even still, you'd be seeing much higher numbers as Combat and Focus and for good reason.

 

As Watchman, a big part of your sustained DPS comes from dots. Combat abilities have to hit much harder in order to keep up with that. If you love big numbers, Combat or Focus are the better specs for you. Watchman is about seeing a lot of medium sized numbers. That's the "bad" news. The great news is Watchman brings more survivability in the form of passing healing and, if PvE is your thing, the 100% damage reduction during Force Camo is absolutely godly for utility.

Edited February 14, 2012 by McVade

[spriing]

Guy you are missing his point. He is stating that he doesn't think the MS ability is doing enough damage and was wondering if it was normal or a bug. He is not complaining that it isn't bursty enough.

 

We are to quick to assume that someone is complaining or trolling when they are in fact just looking for a response from the community that is both fair and intelligent. Lets try being more helpful and less criticizing.

 

As for the OP. Firesprit_ea,I am not level 50 yet but I will check my tool tip for the MS ability and let you know what the actual damage is on a mob.

[firesprite_ea]

Guy you are missing his point. He is stating that he doesn't think the MS ability is doing enough damage and was wondering if it was normal or a bug. He is not complaining that it isn't bursty enough.

 

We are to quick to assume that someone is complaining or trolling when they are in fact just looking for a response from the community that is both fair and intelligent. Lets try being more helpful and less criticizing.

 

As for the OP. Firesprit_ea,I am not level 50 yet but I will check my tool tip for the MS ability and let you know what the actual damage is on a mob.

 

Finally someone who actually read my post. *sigh* ppl these days.

 

It matters not what equip you have (though for the record it it modded from dailies + some columi pieces). If the tooltip says: does 2500-2700 dmg and upon use I see 800-1600 on average .... Even if I take into account armour rating of the target (and mobs do not have that much) i should not get that low a number. In addition, slash (basic tooltip dmg around 1200-1400 i think) hits for 1000-2000 on the same mob (if you take into account armour rating that is actually plausible).

 

For now I have just moved the skill from my bound key and switched it to master strike. It actually hits abt 5000 on average for me making it a much better option.

[Therealkoop]

Combat gets +30% crit damage and armor pen.

 

Watchman doesnt.

 

I think merciless is fine.

[McVade]

Guy you are missing his point. He is stating that he doesn't think the MS ability is doing enough damage and was wondering if it was normal or a bug. He is not complaining that it isn't bursty enough.

 

We are to quick to assume that someone is complaining or trolling when they are in fact just looking for a response from the community that is both fair and intelligent. Lets try being more helpful and less criticizing.

 

As for the OP. Firesprit_ea,I am not level 50 yet but I will check my tool tip for the MS ability and let you know what the actual damage is on a mob.

 

I did nothing of the sort?

 

Finally someone who actually read my post. *sigh* ppl these days.

 

Wow. I have to admit, this is the first time I've ever been flamed for genuinely trying to help someone. If we misunderstood what you were asking, you can always acknowledge maybe you were a little unclear in what you were asking and correct us rather than imply we're all idiots who don't read.

 

Yeah, must be a bug. Go file a report.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Wekeltes

[SteveGarbage]

Hmm, that damage seems borked to me. I haven't really paid that much attention to what my Merciless pumps out but I feel like it's at least twice as much as Slash. Some other things to remember about Merciless:

 

-66 percent chance to reset the cooldown on Cauterize, your top priority skill.

-Requires 5 Focus to use, but only actually costs 4, assuming you're talented for it.

-Has it's own internal cooldown mechanism.

 

Personally it works out fine for me.

[Cinemayor]

I find it hits like a truck full of burning dinosaurs. Managed to get 10k (with Inspiration + adrenal) on Trashbot in KP at the weekend (right after we hit him with a burn) - special circumstances I know but it made me fuzzy inside all the same.

 

I find it's actually a decent burst - with all your burns ticking away and consistent slashing your opponents health drops quite steadily, so chucking in a 3-4k MS every now and again is noticeable.

 

I actually think that Bladestorm could use MORE love given how hard MS hits (especially with full Juyo stacked). Either that or Blade Rush/Ataru procs need the love.

 

As for MS focus cost, you generate so much focus on a decent rotation the cost is largely a moot point. The cooldown reduction on successive uses is just pure gravy as well.

[Coramac]

Good day all!

 

I have been playing compbat sentinel for quite a while, but have tested both focust and watchman specs. Ran with focus for a couple of days and watchman for abt a week. However I decided that dots are not my kind of thing and dot based dmg is not exactly ideal to take out adds.

 

Now that we have started HM FP I decided to give it another try. I can not say exactly if we kill faster or not (well, we killed everything fast before) but I did notice one thing that I found out very weird and puzzling.

 

Merciless Strike. Top tier ability that is supposed to be a supermegadmg ability. And yet .. it is not. For some reason I hit with MS for 800-1500 on average. I think i went as far as 3000 one time. That is extremely weird as my normal slash hits for 1000+ and in most cases for abt 2000 (buffed crit chance is ~40% and crit mult ~94%).

So basically an ability that eats 5 focus is far inferior than my average 3 focus one. And given that I can do two slash attacks for the same price.... THe only use for that ability is hoping it ends cauterize CD and that is not exactly that good in my book.

 

So, can anyone pls advise on above?

 

P.S. With combat blade storm always hits for ~2800/3200. Thus making it far superior to MS both in terms of focus costs (2 vs 5), distance (10vs4) and CD (9 vs 15. (ofc on the 2,3rd cd is lower, but i am taking basic one in account).

 

A few things:

 

1.) Are you counting the offhand attack?

2.) Do you have offhand spec?

3.) It's 4 Focus vs. 2 Focus, not 5 vs. 3.

4.) 2 Slashes requires 4 Focus AND two GCDs. A better comparison is Merciless Slash and Strike. This significantly outperforms 2 Slashes. It's 2 Focus vs. 4 Focus in this comparison.

5.) Precision Slash is not up for every Blade Storm.

6.) Pretty sure Merciless Slash is a 12 second CD. The second one is 12 seconds, third is 10.5, fourth is 9, and fifth is 7.5.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Coramac

[Bullwrath]

I agree with the OP, merciless slash is pretty underwhelming for a top tier ability.

 

Its focus/damage ratio is about the same as 2 slashes and it only applies 1 dot in the process rather than 2 (using overload saber), meaning that it actually does less damage per focus.

 

It does however provide a damage burst that many people like.

 

You aren't using it wrong; it's working as intended; it's use is a playstyle choice option.

 

 

 

 

P.S. to the first few people to answer this post: Seriously W. T. F. Learn to read.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Bullwrath

[FobManX]

Merciless Slash hits like a truck. It's awesome. You can't compare it to two Slashes because that's two GCDs compared to one. A better comparison would be Merciless Slash + Strike compared to two Slashes. MS + Strike = only two Focus cost for more damage then two Slashes which would cost four Focus.

[kaya]

Sounds bugged.

Couldn't tell you how much it does hit for offhand (and it will have no relevance to you as you'll have different gear).

But basically should hit twice as hard as slash - its basically 2 slashes in 1 global.

[spriing]

I did nothing of the sort?

 

 

 

Wow. I have to admit, this is the first time I've ever been flamed for genuinely trying to help someone. If we misunderstood what you were asking, you can always acknowledge maybe you were a little unclear in what you were asking and correct us rather than imply we're all idiots who don't read.

 

Yeah, must be a bug. Go file a report.

 

sorry McVade You posted yours while I was typing mine. Your post was pretty decent I was in fact referring to the posts just above yours. I didn't see your post until after I posted.

[Xerain]

Good day all!

 

I have been playing compbat sentinel for quite a while, but have tested both focust and watchman specs. Ran with focus for a couple of days and watchman for abt a week. However I decided that dots are not my kind of thing and dot based dmg is not exactly ideal to take out adds.

 

Now that we have started HM FP I decided to give it another try. I can not say exactly if we kill faster or not (well, we killed everything fast before) but I did notice one thing that I found out very weird and puzzling.

 

Merciless Strike. Top tier ability that is supposed to be a supermegadmg ability. And yet .. it is not. For some reason I hit with MS for 800-1500 on average. I think i went as far as 3000 one time. That is extremely weird as my normal slash hits for 1000+ and in most cases for abt 2000 (buffed crit chance is ~40% and crit mult ~94%).

So basically an ability that eats 5 focus is far inferior than my average 3 focus one. And given that I can do two slash attacks for the same price.... THe only use for that ability is hoping it ends cauterize CD and that is not exactly that good in my book.

 

So, can anyone pls advise on above?

 

P.S. With combat blade storm always hits for ~2800/3200. Thus making it far superior to MS both in terms of focus costs (2 vs 5), distance (10vs4) and CD (9 vs 15. (ofc on the 2,3rd cd is lower, but i am taking basic one in account).

 

*** why so soft? I've got BM sabers and my annihilate hits for a better damage range than your crit blade storms...

[firesprite_ea]

I did nothing of the sort?

 

Wow. I have to admit, this is the first time I've ever been flamed for genuinely trying to help someone. If we misunderstood what you were asking, you can always acknowledge maybe you were a little unclear in what you were asking and correct us rather than imply we're all idiots who don't read.

 

Yeah, must be a bug. Go file a report.

 

Sorry, that was not regarding your post but the ones before you

 

But coming back to MS question.

 

Did more testing during some heroics quests. Same situation. MS hits for a very random 800-3000 range. And I have never seen anything more than 3100 dmg. It is like the skill refuses to crit at all and has a much lower damage than indicated. Still have no idea what is happening >_<.

 

Will test it some more today i think

 

P.S. Regarding 10k dmg from it... Find it very hard to believe but .. if that is what you have - good for you!

[Woopinars]

Its exceptionally simple as to why you feel merciless slash is underrated. First and foremost the cost. Obviously you did the math and figured you can get 2 slashes in but as previously stated thats an extra global cooldown. As stated again merciless slash + strike takes the same amount of time as 2 slashes, costs less focus (merc -4 strike+2) and drops a full 3 proc of overload slaber vs 2 with 2x slash. The second thing your doing is looking at actual damage. The average damage of slash is close in terms of its minimum damge and its maximum whereas your merc slash has a huge damage gap possibility. Another factor involved is the mob itself and its damage resistance, something that combat spec avoids because of precision slash. Now comparing a masterstrike vs a merc slash you have to take into account that it is a channeled ability that can and in hard fps or heroic dailies often time does get interrupted meaning that mega damage is mitigated significantly. So if your going with a watchman build do remember that end game watchman is entirely based on the dots and not the burst. Dots ignore armor hence there effectiveness and the zen spam that pushes easy crits is nice as hell. So i agree with almost all of this threads posters that any option is viable either merc slash and strike or going with 2x slash, cauterize for your overload saber stacks.

[KilllerRock]

Sorry, that was not regarding your post but the ones before you

 

But coming back to MS question.

 

Did more testing during some heroics quests. Same situation. MS hits for a very random 800-3000 range. And I have never seen anything more than 3100 dmg. It is like the skill refuses to crit at all and has a much lower damage than indicated. Still have no idea what is happening >_<.

 

Will test it some more today i think

 

P.S. Regarding 10k dmg from it... Find it very hard to believe but .. if that is what you have - good for you!

 

Must be your weapons/gear. I have never seen merc hit for 800. But it does have a wide range of what it can hit for. Depending on the targets armor and if it crits or not it can hit as weak as 1,800 for me or hit as hard as 5,000 damage for me. Thats in pvp anyways, i have no idea what it does in PvE. Maybe your targets are just way higher armor than any player.

[firesprite_ea]

Its exceptionally simple as to why you feel merciless slash is underrated. First and foremost the cost. ..... The second thing your doing is looking at actual damage. The average damage of slash is close in terms of its minimum damge and its maximum whereas your merc slash has a huge damage gap possibility. Another factor involved is the mob itself and its damage resistance, something that combat spec avoids because of precision slash.

 

 

Ok, i will repeat myself. I did not just do math - I looked at skill cost and the dmg. I tested it on gold sith marauders mobs (heroic2+ quest in Darkness on Illum) so the test group was consistent. Tests were done in a simple matter. Togetehr with a sage friend we killed silver trash while gold was CC. Then I started attacking gold (sage just healed me occasionally) while 1) using MS as often as I could while watching the dmg. 2) on the other mob using slash and watching the dmg.

End result was - MS did subpar. I got the damage data I indicated earlier and all in all slash was hitting for more consistent and often bigger numbers.

 

One more thing. Ppl who keep referring to gear. Once again, I am in fully moddable gear with daily comms +columi chest. It matters little though. This entire topic was created not because i think watchman does not have big hits, not because i want it to have big hits and not because I want to complain abt not killing things fast.

The entire thing was created because I was extremely confused with the tooltip dmg of the skill and the actual numbers I saw it hit. That is all. I care little for it proccing burn dots or refreshing cauterize. I just want to understand why the dmg is so random.

 

At any rate, I hope to get more data with further testing (belsavis area today).

Edited February 15, 2012 by firesprite_ea

[Soybombz]

Ok, i will repeat myself. I did not just do math - I looked at skill cost and the dmg. I tested it on gold sith marauders mobs (heroic2+ quest in Darkness on Illum) so the test group was consistent. Tests were done in a simple matter. Togetehr with a sage friend we killed silver trash while gold was CC. Then I started attacking gold (sage just healed me occasionally) while 1) using MS as often as I could while watching the dmg. 2) on the other mob using slash and watching the dmg.

End result was - MS did subpar. I got the damage data I indicated earlier and all in all slash was hitting for more consistent and often bigger numbers.

 

One more thing. Ppl who keep referring to gear. Once again, I am in fully moddable gear with daily comms +columi chest. It matters little though. This entire topic was created not because i think watchman does not have big hits, not because i want it to have big hits and not because I want to complain abt not killing things fast.

The entire thing was created because I was extremely confused with the tooltip dmg of the skill and the actual numbers I saw it hit. That is all. I care little for it proccing burn dots or refreshing cauterize. I just want to understand why the dmg is so random.

 

At any rate, I hope to get more data with further testing (belsavis area today).

 

Your slow.... and you just want to be right factor in armor and your worthless gear.... You could have 1 MILLION people post about how superior Merc Strike is but you're going to hold on to your useless argument.

[Skeptical]

Your slow.... and you just want to be right factor in armor and your worthless gear.... You could have 1 MILLION people post about how superior Merc Strike is but you're going to hold on to your useless argument.

 

You seriously can't be as thick headed as you come off in this post. No one is that dense.

 

Why is it so hard to understand that he's trying to get the point across that the skill isn't doing as much damage as the tooltip says and furthermore is doing less damage than Slash?

 

I haven't paid that much attention to Merciless Slash's damage in comparison to Slash's damage so I can't weigh in on whether or not the skill is bugged.

 

It's obvious that something is not quite right, if what you say is true, and it has nothing to do with gear.

 

These forums are horrific. The community is full of small minded angry fools who are so busy pretending to know everything about everything that they can't take the time to learn or comprehend what other people are communicating. It's disgraceful and it diminishes us all.

 

Stop acting like complete and total d-bags and show a modicum of respect to your fellow human beings. Just because you can hide behind the anonymity of the internet doesn't mean you should.

[JustinxDuff]

Slash does not hit anywhere near as hard as MS. My MS crits for 2.5k-3k in PvP.

[Vegathegreat]

Merc Slash is fine, mine crit from 3.5k to 5k mainhand all the time..... once it becomes a 7.5 sec cooldown in pvp its just ridiculous