snuff Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Every time I come read the boards I leave confused and worried... Then I log on to my sin and tear it up and think to myself.. What the hell are these people talking about. I see so much QQing about survivability of Deception and honestly I never have an issue with it. I use my stealth to pick out my target, use my stuns/knock downs to keep him isolated and from casting. Mow him down and then get the hell out of town. If anything I would like a higher crit chance while in deception or a little (5-10% more base damage) but i sure as hell don't need/want any more survivability. Is it me or am I just crazy. Honestly after I use up my first regen (attack from stealth) and have poped my second regen and used it... WEll I'm total crap as far as dps so I have no business sticking around for long periods of time. I need to jump in, blow someone up (maybe two people depending how long it took me to kill the first one and if I have my second regen up) then ****. From what I am reading I am just guessing that people are trying to play deception like a marauder or a tank. This spec is not a go in there and beat on people for an hour (thats darkness). Is that the issue? Is there something I am missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insendial Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That's most of the issue. Most people don't understand how to play a glass cannon and equate frequent deaths with bad class mechanics instead of with misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I do well as a deception sin, but even I recognize I would be doing better if I was darkness. Deception offers a moderate increase dps, at a high cost to survivability. I really wish we had some sort of healing debuff. We don't need any more dps, but when healers can just stand their in an aoe heal and spam heal themselves until we are out of all our cooldowns and regen, it can be frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OjaAjo Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 "Don't punish yourself. If you're not having fun, then STOP DOING IT." this pretty much sums it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coronaaa Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You people make me want to go back to deception.. My last respec was like 100k though so I think I'll wait a week for the price to reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I do well as a deception sin, but even I recognize I would be doing better if I was darkness. Deception offers a moderate increase dps, at a high cost to survivability. I really wish we had some sort of healing debuff. We don't need any more dps, but when healers can just stand their in an aoe heal and spam heal themselves until we are out of all our cooldowns and regen, it can be frustrating. Nothing wrong with that imo, they're not killing you either, and if you can keep a healer focusing on himself where he can't heal other people, then you're doing your job. I think the biggest problem causing the QQ from ppl about Deception is they expect to play like a Marauder when the build simply isn't suited for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toshman Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 i love deception but it just doesn't perform that well maybe when you get to out gear people its great but before that its meh not so great. right now i am full centurion with all my implants and relics are champion and i can tell you this in darkness i can do solid 175-200k and i don't remember a WZ with less then 9 medals. 175k dmg is nothing special and with deception i'd would be at the 250-275k mark. easy with the gear i have. but i love the tank spec. its actually quite cool. see the vid on the main page. its a fun spec and super durable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenorah Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I do well as a deception sin, but even I recognize I would be doing better if I was darkness. Deception offers a moderate increase dps, at a high cost to survivability. I really wish we had some sort of healing debuff. We don't need any more dps, but when healers can just stand their in an aoe heal and spam heal themselves until we are out of all our cooldowns and regen, it can be frustrating. A moderate increase in dps? Okay, because darkness can do 10k with 2 attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 A moderate increase in dps? Okay, because darkness can do 10k with 2 attacks. Sure can. Might even be able to do it with one if I was crazy enough to use an adrenal while I have WZ buff on (that's total overkill and a waste of clicks). People who say you do more damage in Deception are deluding yourself. It isn't even like Madness where you at least appear to do more damage. You flat out don't do more damage and take considerably more risk, which is why the spec is weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuff Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Sure can. Might even be able to do it with one if I was crazy enough to use an adrenal while I have WZ buff on (that's total overkill and a waste of clicks). People who say you do more damage in Deception are deluding yourself. It isn't even like Madness where you at least appear to do more damage. You flat out don't do more damage and take considerably more risk, which is why the spec is weak. Fraps.. I need to see this because I can't think of a 2 hit combo that would rival a shock, discharge of deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenout Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I currently have 3 pieces of champion gear and 3 pieces of centurion gear, rest is PvE, and I can take on ANYONE 1 on 1, people are playing their class wrong. A deception sin does not go into a crowd and seek attention, you need to chose your targets wisely, burst them down and get away from everyone's sight. Why would such a mobile class need so much survivability?You feel you are getting low, use force speed and get LoS.Use force cloak, and go look for those healing tablets.You have a 1 minute cooldown that reduces all damage you take for 50%. In the last 10 warzones I've played, in all of them I am either invincible, immortal or at the very least unbeatable, getting 8-12 medals and actually contributing to the team rather than fighting nonsense battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubertt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 ive had my tank speced tele throw his for 8k total then u add a 2k project onto that (both auto crits) then if i was deception against an equally bad geared target my project would prolly hit 4k then 2k then force breach around 4k. burst is around the same but tank needs OPTIMAL situation while deception u throw 2 C Strikes and ur good. tank spec can burst just as good just not nearly as often or as easily. Not to mention any CC's completely ruin it. that being said having the same burst but being tank is pretty nifty. Still i like deception the best causes the most kills. I get about the same dmg with tank and deception because of tanks good sustained dmg and quite frankly, if u cant take a healer down ur gonna get "BETTER" stats then if u took him down in 3 hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I don't know why people keep on say 'avoid attention'. If someone sees the yoyo lightsaber you've a red X painted on your head because everyone knows that you're in a spec with no meaningful defense. Unless you can really use Jedi mind tricks, people will always kill an easy to kill class compared to a hard one because having a man advantage is huge in PvP. If you don't have VS then some of the burst DPS argument doesn't even make sense (Shock does same damage with 29 in Deception as an energized reckless Shock in Darkness if there is no VS). By the way Darkness also has a passive +15% damage to Shock that apparently nobody ever accounts for. The only Deception assassins that don't die are the ones with a pocket healer, or the guys that run away from a fight leaving their friends to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenorah Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I would like to point out, your Force lightning ticking 4 times doesn't even come close to discharge + shock combo, simply because it isn't burst, it's channelled so it can be countered by a healer easier; AND you can interrupt it? GG nub, learn something about pvp before you post useless info plx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I would like to point out, your Force lightning ticking 4 times doesn't even come close to discharge + shock combo, simply because it isn't burst, it's channelled so it can be countered by a healer easier; AND you can interrupt it? GG nub, learn something about pvp before you post useless info plx. Force Lightning cannot be interrupted by interrupt effects with Harnessed Darkness. If someone use a hard CC, that'll stop whatever rotation you're using just fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenorah Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) You are aware an overload, or any knockback for that matter can easily interrupt that? Or if you are Deception, you can just low slash it. It is the most unreliable form of single target damage in PvP I've seen in any game. Continue though Edited February 14, 2012 by Alenorah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French-toast Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 im a tank spec, and ive tried deception before. i rip through deception sins like butter, and out dps them 95% of the time with more killing blows. although deception has better burst, i can put out more sustainable damage with darkness, and if i get targeted, i don't feel as pressured because i can take a few hits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenorah Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) im a tank spec, and ive tried deception before. i rip through deception sins like butter, and out dps them 95% of the time with more killing blows. although deception has better burst, i can put out more sustainable damage with darkness, and if i get targeted, i don't feel as pressured because i can take a few hits I hear sustainable damage is really important for kills. You know when sustainable damage is useful? For 20-45minute long arena matches in WoW, and even then, the team that wins is the one that has the player who can do sustained DPS, and pull out good burst combos to get a kill, which darkness can not. Why you would be proud of sustained damage in a PvP situation is beyond me, but I guess this is half the problem. Kids think because they die less frequently (being a tank spec, you should hope you survive better than a DPS spec), and because they have decent AoE damage and it's somewhat consistent, that they somehow own pvp? Please, learn to play. Edited February 14, 2012 by Alenorah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It's funny for someone who talks about Deception having great burst talk about using Overload to stop a Force Lightning when any KB completely shuts down Deception. You can't build any stacks of your buffs without VS and that requires melee range. I guess your burst DPS is defined by an enemy standing completely still in melee range but if you're any other spec the guy will just stun you from 30m away, even though it's more like the opposite, i.e. any melee characters tend to get KBed immediately when you attempt to burst down a range. Deception gets destroyed by KB/snare or KB/root combos, and practically anyone that isn't a melee has one of those combos. Wither + KB is particularly crippling against a Deception Assassin. When you get that combo on a Deception Assassin, you could have 20% health and they'd never be able to take that last 20% off because they can't get close enough to melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) It's funny for someone who talks about Deception having great burst talk about using Overload to stop a Force Lightning when any KB completely shuts down Deception. You can't build any stacks of your buffs without VS and that requires melee range. I guess your burst DPS is defined by an enemy standing completely still in melee range but if you're any other spec the guy will just stun you from 30m away, even though it's more like the opposite, i.e. any melee characters tend to get KBed immediately when you attempt to burst down a range. Deception gets destroyed by KB/snare or KB/root combos, and practically anyone that isn't a melee has one of those combos. Wither + KB is particularly crippling against a Deception Assassin. When you get that combo on a Deception Assassin, you could have 20% health and they'd never be able to take that last 20% off because they can't get close enough to melee. You act like Deception doesn't have the tools to lock a target in place or a perma snare... Furthermore, I'd love to see you at 20% health as I would just casually walk up to you in stealth spike>assassinate>low slash>VSx2... etc.. etc(if you're even alive at this point, which I highly doubt you are) in which case electrocute and wait for 5 seconds for low slash to be back off CD. Get real man. Edited February 14, 2012 by Cowflab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptiq Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Deception is perfectly valid for pvp if you don't go around thinking you're a tank. People that complain about the terrible survivability of the spec make me laugh. I only use Champ gear for 200 expertise on my Assassin then pack on Rakata for more damage. Obviously as Darkness you might be fine running into a largeish fight not even bothering to stealth at all because you can take the hits and do decent aoe damage. Deception does the best when you can properly gauge when/where to engage an enemy or two. People tend to think of survivability in terms of "how much damage can I take before I die", which if you examine both specs with that narrow of vision you'd be correct. However, with Deception, you play hit-n-run alot, your burst damage is so good you can literally pop into combat long enough to burst somebody down then sprint/vanish/walk away perfectly intact. If the notion of running from combat repeatedly does not appeal to you then Deception is not the spec for you. However, it's completely viable and can easily demolish WZ's if the player understands his/her role. Darkness is a fine spec if mainly if you wanna play Huttball all the time and run balls/pull people into fire. As for me, I like to kill people, and Deception is hands down the best spec for that as an Assassin imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-NovalGaraint- Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 to the OP; You are not a Glass Cannon.........as deception you are a Glass .22 at best Why role a glass 22 when you can run a Fortress armed with a Howitzer? Thats whats wrong with Deception Many classes have multiple specs that offer strong survivability AND heavy hitting damage. Look at Smugglers, they can hit harder than you, heal themselves, and keep pwning face while you have to vanish and run in 90% of the situations that a stealth smuggler runs through like its nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrsome Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I've never torn someone apart nor has another assassin ever torn me apart. I have been ***** by keyboard turning clicker operatives though...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrilian Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 6% willpower like sorc or any other AC get would be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omite Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why you would be proud of sustained damage in a PvP situation is beyond me, but I guess this is half the problem. All Warzones are objective based. As Darkness I can stop a whole team from capping an objective long enough for backup to arrive. I can do this because my damage is sustained. Without my sustained damage the objective would be lost and difficult to get back. Both Darkness and Deception specs are valuable in war zones. Madness I dunno, never tried it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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