"Advanced Classes = Fundamentally Different Class Designs"

[JKhayos]

We have no plans for switching advanced classes - which we see as fundamentally different class designs

 

The above was said by Daniel Erickson during the Community Q&A last Friday, 2/10/2012. While his statement is not false, it's easily a "no duh" statement and a stance I eagerly encourage BioWare to reconsider.

 

Yes, there's a fundamental difference between a melee and a spellcaster. Additionally, there's a fundamental difference between a DPS, a Support, a Healer, and a Tank.

 

HOWEVER

 

There's not a fundamental difference in the quest lines between all of the above. If I have rolled an Inquisitor, and selected Sorcerer, I am locked into Sorcerer. If I want to play Assassin, which I do terribly want to do, I'm forced to reroll the exact same class and experience the exact same quests. I truly feel punished for selecting the Healing role on my Inquisitor, despite my passion for healing and my preference for spellcasters. To speak from a personal experience, I've already rerolled a couple times trying to find a server to call home. The pre-20 Inq experience has been done repeatedly by me, and I'm pretty over it. I feel that paying customers who are otherwise satisfied with the game shouldn't be forced to choke down old content in an attempt to experience the game fully. To this, I add that at level 10, people have different intents and ideas about how the next 40 levels are going to go. Someone inexperienced in a role may select it and find they're really bad at it, or not select it and then possible heals/tanks are lost. It's not a win/win, it's not even a win/lose, it's a lose/lose and those stink.

 

TL- DR: Yes, the ACs are "fundamentally different." The quests aren't. Please truly consider either allowing AC changes (at additional cost, quests, whatever) or change the AC storylines so that they're significantly different.

Edited February 13, 2012 by JKhayos

[tazdirector]

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP and I believe Bioware and the developers need to re-evaluate the current stance on Advanced Classes (ACs) and the ability for players to change.

 

In the addition to the original points outlined by the OP, there is another area that needs to be considered in relation to ACs:

 

[OPERATIONS and SMALL GUILDS]

This, for me personally, seems to be the greatest area effected by the current non-changeable AC situation. Smaller PVE-related guilds who are interested in taking on end-game operations will run into issues if/when key-role players leave the game, become unavailable, etc.

 

One of the draws of "hybrid" classes has been the flexibility they provide for guild or operation leaders when it comes to end-game activities. Forcing players to RE-ROLL completely in order to fulfill a vacant role not only effects the player, but the team as a whole that may be forced to wait until said player reaches the required level cap and gear level or recruit a player on a temporary basis (which can lead to subsequent issues down the road).

 

While I understand the nature of MMOs is the online community and recruiting for operation roles is common, NOT providing an option for an EXISTING member of the team to make an AC switch for the betterment of the team can undermine some of those same community aspects, specifically operation teams that have history and want to keep those same members included as part of the online experience.

 

[THE CORE ISSUE]

I believe that the number one issue that the community has with Bioware's current stance on changing ACs has to do with the "Fundamentally Different" verbage used as the primary reasoning for not allowing players to change ACs.

 

For many players, fundamentally different involves:

1. Different Stories
   
2. Different Companions
   
3. Different Ships
   
4. Different Appearances (Armor)
   

 

However, in a majority of the Advanced Classes, the difference is not only less evident, but also identical in the areas that matter when faced with RE-rolling from the start (story, companion, and even appearance).

 

Take, for example, the differences between a Sith Marauder and a Sith Juggernaut (or it's Jedi counterparts). Our approaches to combat are similar (Force Charge), our "power/energy" schemes are identical and of course, our companions and ships are exactly the same. Even the story (though it has some small differences), plays out in a similar fashion with many of the same story options and choices.

 

And while the difference between a Sith Assassin or Sorcerer are more pronounced when it comes to approaches to combat, the story, companion, ships and appearance are nearly identical.

 

[sUGGESTIONS]

Since this is the SUGGESTION thread, I'd be remiss if I didn't actually provide any.

 

As it stands (and as outlined by the OP), it would appear that Bioware's biggest issue with allowing AC changing is allowing players to skip content/story/experiences that have been designed based on the AC choice made at level 10.

 

Since it stands to reason that it would be extremely time-consuming (and probably cost-prohibitive) to completely re-design additional stories, new companions, new appearances for the different ACs, the issue then becomes one of Bioware proving to the player-base that ALLOWING AC changing would somehow undermine the community or the game as a whole.

 

If Bioware is concerned about players abusing the ability to switch ACs, limit the choices based on a set time-period (can only change ONCE a year or TWICE a year, etc) or give players an additional chance to change ACs at a set level (level 40 would seem to make the most sense as you gain access to your AC's top-tier talent) before making the choice permanent.

 

If the concern is losing "re-playability" by allowing players to switch ACs, I would ask Bioware to re-evaluate the cost of a player's time and resources by forcing them to re-roll from the start for what many believe to be very little difference in actual playable content.

 

And perhaps, my final and most pro-active choice

 

If story is indeed paramount to Bioware, why not make the AC change process just that...a PROCESS. Instead of an NPC and credit fee, give players the chance to speak to their trainer/mentor who offers the AC change opportunity.

 

What would follow would be a multi-planet quest chain that would teach the player the "ways" of the new advanced class. The player would slowly learn the new AC's abilities and Bioware could weave in the subtle differences in story through "holo-recordings" or the like.

 

The quest chain could take hours and involve difficult, perhaps Heroic [4+] challenges that would help involve others who may have suggested/pushed for the player's AC change (imagine an Ops team rallying around a player to help them change ACs for the team's sake -- you'd get both a social and story aspect to share in together).

 

[sUMMARY]

In the end, I think the player base wants to hear that you're re-evaluating the stance. The change doesn't have to come immediately, but due to the number of forum threads and postings, I think the community deserves at least a further evaluation of the subject and, if necessary, a further explanation of why AC changing would be to the ultimate detriment of the game.

[KBling]

play the other advanced class on the opposite faction? That's what I do.

[aznthecapn]

 

There's not a fundamental difference in the quest lines between all of the above.

 

This is a bad justification for the classes being the same. Why you ask?

 

Because about 20% of your quest content is your class quest. The rest, between normal quests, bonus quests and bonus series, amounts to about 80% of all possible quests. This means you share 80% of quests with ALL classes on your faction. Does this mean we should allow people to change from an Assassin to a Powertech?

 

No.

 

If you want to experience the other AC, roll the Republic version. If it matters enough, you'll spend the time - on Republic or Alliance side. You knew what was happening when you chose your class. You knew when you read that it was permanent that if you wanted to play the other it meant starting a new character. That's how the game works.

 

The only justification I can see for being allowed to change AC is to experience the other AC while you level and decide which you prefer. By controlling the process and limiting it to 5-8 changes BEFORE level 50, I would be agreeable to AC changes. Once you hit level 50 though, you pick one and are stuck with it forever. What the other one? Work for it.

Edited February 13, 2012 by aznthecapn

[tazdirector]

Because about 20% of your quest content is your class quest. The rest, between normal quests, bonus quests and bonus series, amounts to about 80% of all possible quests. This means you share 80% of quests with ALL classes on your faction. Does this mean we should allow people to change from an Assassin to a Powertech?

 

First of all, I agree with you...we should NOT allow people to change from an assassin to a Powertech....that is MAJOR class shift and something that would dramatically alter the game, especially as Bioware continues to balance the game.

 

However, the previous posts have targeted changing Advanced Classes (Sith Juggernaut to Marauder or Assassin to Sorcerer), staying WITHIN the main MAJOR class (Warrior and Inquisitor respectively).

 

Furthermore, I'm all for replay-ability and indeed, when rolling a NEW MAJOR class, one expects to see familiar content all the way to level cap.

 

But again, to emphasize the original point, neither the OP nor I are promoting the ability to change MAJOR class, just the Advanced Class specialization within...since many of the elements between the ACs are shared as noted in my original post.

[Lerthan]

First of all, I agree with you...we should NOT allow people to change from an assassin to a Powertech....that is MAJOR class shift and something that would dramatically alter the game, especially as Bioware continues to balance the game.

 

However, the previous posts have targeted changing Advanced Classes (Sith Juggernaut to Marauder or Assassin to Sorcerer), staying WITHIN the main MAJOR class (Warrior and Inquisitor respectively).

 

Furthermore, I'm all for replay-ability and indeed, when rolling a NEW MAJOR class, one expects to see familiar content all the way to level cap.

 

But again, to emphasize the original point, neither the OP nor I are promoting the ability to change MAJOR class, just the Advanced Class specialization within...since many of the elements between the ACs are shared as noted in my original post.

 

Elements are the same yes, how ever both AC paths play completely different. I have leveled both a sage and a shadow. Neither one plays anywhere near the others play style. Do both share some of the same abilities yes, they even share one talent tree with the other. However the largest majority of there abilities are completely different from each other.

 

You are in effect asking to change your entire class to something else. It would be like me asking blizzard to allow me to change from a rogue to a mage. The entire game play aspect (not story aspect) is different, even the abilities that I use and how I use them that are the same between the classes becomes different.

 

Sorry but no, you should not be able to change your class. If your not sure what class you want to play, do like I am with my smuggler. I am leveling him to 50 without picking an advanced class.

[MajikMyst]

The problem I see with threads like these is realitively simple..

 

There are not set in stone guid lines to define a class..

 

Quest line is simply irrelevent.. Can anyone name an MMO that has totally seperate quests for each and every class.. Meaning that no class did the same quests at all?? Anyone?? So sharing class quests is irrelevent.. Just because two Jedi classes share class quests doesn't mean they are not different classes..

 

All Blood Elves did the same baby quests.. Anyone that did the barrens did the same quests.. For awhile Orcs and Trolls shared a baby area.. Is a Troll hunter the same class an Orc warlock?? Obviously the answer is no..

 

Mages and Warlocks.. Both wear cloth, both are casters, both have a talent tree that uses fire damage.. Fire for mages and Destruction for Warlocks.. Both mages and warlocks use very simular tactics.. About the only thing seperating these to classes is the names of the skills and the warlock pets.. Other than that.. A Destro lock is a fire mage..

 

I bring these issue up because so many people are attempting to define something that is not definable.. Again, there are no set guidlines as to what identifies a class..

 

Bioware calls them a seperate class.. They made the game.. They are the authority here.. You don't have to like it or agree with it.. But it really is that simple..

 

Outland in WOW.. Ever single player in each faction did ALL the same quests reguardless of class.. There were no class quests.. All the quests are the same.. If you were Horde you did all the same quests as every other horde player.. Same was true for Alliance.. Same is true in Northrend and the remodeled WOW after Cataclysm..

 

For any rule or class definition to be effective or even adopted, it has to hold true for any game of the same type.. So all MMO's would have to be held to the same standard.. You can't say that one thing makes them a different class in this game, but not in another game..

 

So.. Have siad all this and absent an agreed standard.. Bioware is correct and always will be until such standard can be agreed upon..

Edited February 14, 2012 by MajikMyst

[greplocos]

I'm a sorc

 

solution as far as I can tell ->

 

(1) roll an assassin

 

(2) do all quests and dailies to whatever level past 14 you feel like. (sprint) I think for myself, that would be perhaps level 20-25. I think I'd finish balmora.

 

(4) get your frozen shockwater.

 

(4) hang out at the fleet and do dailies. warzone, space combat, flashpoint. do extra warzones while waiting for flashpoint groups.

 

if you are the tiny-est bit patient and don't expect 10 levels in a day you will find that the leveling speed is quite fast.

 

(5) when you are overlevel whip through your class quest in record time skipping the other stuff.

 

(6) enjoy life.

[Spero-Mcgee]

The solution that I came up with at moment is very time intensive more some people then others. Hear me out though. If I remember correctly each class has 2 advanced classes.

What this means is, you lvl say a Jedi Guardian and then a Jedi Sentinel, yes youll experience the same class story quests again but you can make different choices then you did the first. Another you can do is what others have mentioned that about 80% are quests that every class shares, instead of these quests only do pvp to lvl up(if you hate pvp this might be a problem), you'll get valor, coms that youll be able to put to good use once you reach lvl 50. Another thing is that with the extra chars, you will have more gathering and crafting options, keep in mind there are 6 craft skills, if you limit yourself to 4 chars per faction, you'll only have access to 4 craft skills yourself personally.

 

You could also play male/female instead so you can romance a different companion if you so desire. Since the max amount of chars happen to be 8 it comes perfectly together, unless you either want to have rep and imp chars on the same server or if a new class ever gets added not that I can think of a new class that could actually fit in swtor.

From what I could tell with the legacy system one of the things it could give is bonus xp so that might help you along the way.

Like I said at the start it's very time intensive, but since the point of a game is to have fun and spend time in it, this can only be good.

[tazdirector]

I appreciate everyone's responses...and, at the source, I don't disagree with many sentiments....I think it's simply a difference of perspective.

 

You are in effect asking to change your entire class to something else. It would be like me asking blizzard to allow me to change from a rogue to a mage. The entire game play aspect (not story aspect) is different, even the abilities that I use and how I use them that are the same between the classes becomes different.

 

While I've tried to avoid the WoW-comparisons, I'll answer a spade with a spade. In truth, I can see where the comparisons are being drawn regarding a rogue to a mage (i.e. an Assassin and Sorcerer). Instead (again, staying with the WoW-analogy here), I'm asking to allow players (specifically at end-game), the opportunity to change from a Retribution Paladin to a Protection Paladin or even (closer to the mage/rogue change) from an Enhancement Shaman to a Elemental Shaman.

 

And before the responses, I'm not saying that Bioware has to abide by the rules and systems set by other games and companies. As many have said, Bioware can write it's own rules. WoW is WoW, SWTOR can be SWTOR.

 

But in one area, WoW and SWTOR share common ground....the MULTIPLAYER aspect. And again, it's in this specific area that I find issue with. As noted in my first post, my greatest concern is for small PVE-centric guilds that are working on Operations and run into situations where key roles (tanks/heals) are needed.

 

From a Quality of Life standpoint, FORCING a player to re-roll a brand new character to fulfill this role seems to be an overall detriment to the game, instead of allowing characters to shift Advanced Classes (again, WITHIN the major spec).

 

As an example, let's say a small guild is working on 8-man operations and one of their healers has to leave the game due to real life. They have several Bounty Hunters within the guild, but all have rolled PowerTech. Why NOT allow one of those characters to shift the advanced class to Mercenary to allow the guild to continue with the operations, instead of forcing (and waiting) for a player to re-roll from scratch.

 

Of course, the guild could always recruit another player. But in the current scenario, that is the ONLY course of action...it is recruit or RE-roll. Again, it's not a game-breaker, but a Quality of Life issue.

 

Sorry but no, you should not be able to change your class. If your not sure what class you want to play, do like I am with my smuggler. I am leveling him to 50 without picking an advanced class.

 

While I appreciate you making this decision, do the devs really think this is the proper answer to the solution? Forcing players to play a gimped class (since NOT selecting an advanced class leaves the player with several vital abilities) instead of allowing them to make a change down the road?

 

If you want to experience the other AC, roll the Republic version.

 

Again, this is a great answer for folks just looking to enjoy the content, but for the primary issue I stated above, rolling on the opposite "side" doesn't solve the issue of having to fulfill a missing role on an Operation team.

 

Please don't misunderstand me, this isn't so much a solo/single player issue that I have...it's regarding teams and guilds as a whole. For anyone who has participated in long term, end-game activities, the ability for players to adjust according to the needs of a team is VITAL to survival of most end-game guilds.

 

At present, Bioware has said they won't allow for these adjustments (i.e. changing ACs) and I'm just trying to propose another perspective as to who and how the community will be effected by this decision.

[VanorDM]

Why NOT allow one of those characters to shift the advanced class to Mercenary to allow the guild to continue with the operations, instead of forcing (and waiting) for a player to re-roll from scratch.

 

Because if Powertech is seen as being the better choice as a Bounty Hunter, then it will be expected that everyone switch into Powertech.

 

Allowing people to change AC's will reduce the number of classes to 4, because everyone will be expected to change into the FotM class.

 

Once again, this seems to boil down to people wanting to IMO ruin the basic class system in this game, for no better reason then "because I wanna."

Edited February 14, 2012 by VanorDM

[sharkfinsix]

play the other advanced class on the opposite faction? That's what I do.

 

To easy

[tazdirector]

Because if Powertech is seen as being the better choice as a Bounty Hunter, then it will be expected that everyone switch into Powertech.

 

Allowing people to change AC's will reduce the number of classes to 4, because everyone will be expected to change into the FotM class.

 

Valid concerns. If Bioware is afraid that allowing AC changes will be abused by players in situations listed above, change the method or frequency allowed by the game.

 

For example, players would be limited to two AC changes per year OR make the change a process as I outlined as a suggestion in my first post. A multi-planet quest chain that could involve hours of gameplay to reduce the number of "FotM AC changers".

 

Once again, this seems to boil down to people wanting to IMO ruin the basic class system in this game, for no better reason then "because I wanna."

 

While I'm certain that some folks want AC or class changes just "because", my perspective is based on years of end-game activities and guild/raid (operation) team leading. For many that have shared those responsibilities, they know the issues that arise when a key role player is lost and the team has to be re-arranged in order to continue.

 

As outlined in my original post, the PRIMARY reason for my suggestion is to support end-game operation activities and as they would be limited to AC changes only (not MAJOR class changes), the primary usage would be role switching (DPS to Heals, DPS to Tank, Heals to Tank, etc).

 

In all game mechanics or changes, abuses by players can hardly be avoided. However, in nearly every case, limits can be imposed to help stem the abuse of the system while still supporting productive change that benefits more than just the single player.

[photometrik]

I completely disagree. What you are asking is the equivalent of switching from a Hunter to a Warrior or a Priest to Paladin in WoW. I despise bringing up the 800 pound gorilla in the room, but it is the most accessible example. I am very sorry, but I cannot support this.

 

Respec and dual spec within your Advanced Class is okay, but changing Advanced Classes based on the excuse that the "story is the same" or the "quests are the same" is an unrelated issue. Again, back to WoW or any other MMO for that matter...the quests are the same regardless of the class you play. The only difference would be the zone you start in. The truth of the matter is that regardless of the quests you undertake, a Vanguard and a Commando are two different classes even at the most basic level.

 

The content does not take that long to finish. This is the absolute fastest I've seen leveling in any MMO to date. You can go from 1-50 in about a month even if you are only playing a couple of hours each night. I do my best to be reasonable and accommodating in my posts, but this issue boils my blood because it devalues the class system and one the few actual lasting choices you have to make in this game or most MMOs that have come out in recent history. If you do not want to go through the content again, I would suggest PvPing to level, and only doing your class quests. It's really not that hard, either way.

 

I truly am sorry if I sound harsh, as it is not really my intention. But I am insistent that an AC respec should never come to pass.

Edited February 14, 2012 by photometrik

[VanorDM]

Valid concerns. If Bioware is afraid that allowing AC changes will be abused by players in situations listed above, change the method or frequency allowed by the game.

 

The fact that they're allowed period, means at 50 people will be expected to change their AC. No matter how limited they are, or how often, you will still have the same effect.

 

As outlined in my original post, the PRIMARY reason for my suggestion is to support end-game operation activities and as they would be limited to AC changes only (not MAJOR class changes)

 

According to the quote above, AC's are considered Major classes, the fact that you may or may not agree doesn't change how Bioware looks at them.

 

What you are asking for is no different then asking to be able to switch from a Jedi Guardian to a Jedi Sage. You can not simply slap a different label on it and call it something different, not when it's already been defined by the people who made it.

 

Again, you are asking for a change, this is already how things work. Nothing you said provides a valid reason for changing things, considering the damage that the change will cause.

 

Frankly if this causes issues for end game content in a guild that everyone has the same AC is not in any way a valid reason for breaking the core class system. If that's an issue for the guild, then perhaps they should of been a bit more selective in who they let in, but that is not my problem, and I do not think I should have the game ruined for me, just because some guild can't fill out their roster with enough different AC's.

 

Again, the case you list above, is nothing more then a longer way of saying "Because I wanna." or perhaps more accurately "because I don't wanna."

Edited February 14, 2012 by VanorDM

[tazdirector]

According to the quote above, AC's are considered Major classes, the fact that you may or may not agree doesn't change how Bioware looks at them.

 

It's a point of disagreement for sure. If Bioware didn't see ACs as separate classes, this conversation would probably be moot by now.

 

As is very apparent, however, is that there is a difference of opinion of what constitutes a different class. Granted, the definition the playerbase may assign is altered by the MMO landscape many of us have experienced through the past 10 years of gaming.

 

I completely disagree. What you are asking is the equivalent of switching from a Hunter to a Warrior or a Priest to Paladin in WoW. I despise bringing up the 800 pound gorilla in the room, but it is the most accessible example. I am very sorry, but I cannot support this.

 

There shouldn't be any shame in drawing comparisons to one of the largest MMOs in the market. And again, using that example, I would argue that I am NOT asking for a Warrior to Priest change.

 

Let's use a Sith Warrior as an example. In my opinion, the difference between a Marauder and a Juggernaut are no different than a Fury Warrior and a Protection Warrior. Both use the same "power" scheme, both share core abilities. And, as a perfect example, Fury Warriors often dual wield (i.e. Marauder) while a Protection Warrior has a single-handed weapon and a shield (again, i.e. Juggernaut).

 

Again, staying with the 800lb gorilla, take Shamans for example. An Enhancement Shaman is a melee class, while a Restoration Shaman is heals.

 

Granted, if I was asking for the ability to change my Bounty Hunter to a Sith Warrior or Assassin, we're talking a MAJOR class change and one that I would NOT support. But that's because, at the core, the MAJOR classes are very, very different.

 

Frankly if this causes issues for end game content in a guild that everyone has the same AC is not in any way a valid reason for breaking the core class system. If that's an issue for the guild, then perhaps they should of been a bit more selective in who they let in, but that is not my problem, and I do not think I should have the game ruined for me, just because some guild can't fill out their roster with enough different AC's.

 

This as an example... albeit an exaggerated one. I agree that a guild should recruit in a way that gives it the best chance at success for end-game activities. However, I don't see why giving players the option to change ACs would "ruin" the game for you?

 

Again, the case you list above, is nothing more then a longer way of saying "Because I wanna." or perhaps more accurately "because I don't wanna."

 

The more responses I hear AGAINST allowing AC changing seems to fall into the "I don't wanna" category.

 

By allowing players to change ACs for reasons to support their operation team doesn't mean that every player is forced to change their AC. If you like your AC, more power to you. It doesn't mean we should punish players or teams that suddenly have a need for an alternative AC when the player's class can support it.

[VanorDM]

As is very apparent, however, is that there is a difference of opinion of what constitutes a different class.

 

What you consider to be a major class is completely pointless because it's not your decision. I have to be honest and say I don't even get why people keep bringing this up, especially now that they have made it clear.

 

AC = Class, period. If it wasn't clear that Bioware thought this before it is now.

 

That doesn't mean that a AC respec isn't possible, but people who want it should at the least acknowledge what they are asking for. The ability to change classes.

 

I would argue that I am NOT asking for a Warrior to Priest change.

 

And yet that is exactly what you are asking for, according to Bioware.

 

But that's because, at the core, the MAJOR classes are very, very different.

 

There's more difference between a Shadow and Sage then there is between many classes in other MMO's.

 

However, I don't see why giving players the option to change ACs would "ruin" the game for you?

 

Because if this happens I will be expected to change my class if I want to do end game stuff and I don't have the current FotM class.

 

The more responses I hear AGAINST allowing AC changing seems to fall into the "I don't wanna" category.

 

Again and for the last time. You want something changed, I do not. That means you have to show why the change is both needed and a benefit. No harm is caused by leaving things as is.

 

It doesn't mean we should punish players or teams that suddenly have a need for an alternative AC when the player's class can support it.

 

So now we're punishing people for making them stick to the choice they made? Really we're punishing them???

 

Bioware made their stance on it clear. They consider AC's to be classes and they have no plans on allowing people to change them. This is IMO better for the game as a whole and I am very pleased to hear it.

 

People need to stop making up new terms and trying to parse the meaning of IS in an attempt to convince Bioware to change their mind. If you have a case to make then feel free. But so far not one person has provided anything even resembling a reason to do this, other then because they want to. As if somehow that is a good enough reason to change and IMO ruin the core of the class system in this game.

[photometrik]

So now we're punishing people for making them stick to the choice they made? Really we're punishing them???

 

Bioware made their stance on it clear. They consider AC's to be classes and they have no plans on allowing people to change them. This is IMO better for the game as a whole and I am very pleased to hear it.

 

People need to stop making up new terms and trying to parse the meaning of IS in an attempt to convince Bioware to change their mind. If you have a case to make then feel free. But so far not one person has provided anything even resembling a reason to do this, other then because they want to. As if somehow that is a good enough reason to change and IMO ruin the core of the class system in this game.

 

Bravo. Seriously. Bravo, good sir.

Edited February 14, 2012 by photometrik

[HelinCarnate]

The solution that I came up with at moment is very time intensive more some people then others. Hear me out though. If I remember correctly each class has 2 advanced classes.

What this means is, you lvl say a Jedi Guardian and then a Jedi Sentinel, yes youll experience the same class story quests again but you can make different choices then you did the first. Another you can do is what others have mentioned that about 80% are quests that every class shares, instead of these quests only do pvp to lvl up(if you hate pvp this might be a problem), you'll get valor, coms that youll be able to put to good use once you reach lvl 50. Another thing is that with the extra chars, you will have more gathering and crafting options, keep in mind there are 6 craft skills, if you limit yourself to 4 chars per faction, you'll only have access to 4 craft skills yourself personally.

 

You could also play male/female instead so you can romance a different companion if you so desire. Since the max amount of chars happen to be 8 it comes perfectly together, unless you either want to have rep and imp chars on the same server or if a new class ever gets added not that I can think of a new class that could actually fit in swtor.

From what I could tell with the legacy system one of the things it could give is bonus xp so that might help you along the way.

Like I said at the start it's very time intensive, but since the point of a game is to have fun and spend time in it, this can only be good.

 

 

I do this and it is a lot of fun. Have a dark character and a light character, male and female.

 

The only thing that is broken is the OPs expectations. By his logic, WoW should allow all sorts of class changes because the story is the same for everyone and they should not have to repeat it. Same with almost every other MMO out there. There are a few that have different quests but those are very limited compared to the scope of SWTOR. Having to repeat quests on a different character is SOP for MMOs. If you find a game that does it different and is actually interesting, let us know.

[VanorDM]

Bravo. Seriously. Bravo, good sir.

 

Thank you.

 

*bows*

 

I've been involved in this discussion since the first time it came up on these boards. So I've heard it all now.

 

My fav was the post that basically said that Advanced Class respecs should be allowed, because they're not really classes. If they were really classes they'd be called classes...

 

I don't think I need to point out the illogic in that statement.

[photometrik]

Thank you.

 

*bows*

 

I've been involved in this discussion since the first time it came up on these boards. So I've heard it all now.

 

My fav was the post that basically said that Advanced Class respecs should be allowed, because they're not really classes. If they were really classes they'd be called classes...

 

I don't think I need to point out the illogic in that statement.

 

Oh yes, I was there, I believe. When someone suggests that Advanced Classes are not your real "class", I facepalm hard. With both hands.

[smexymage]

I'm not against having to reroll for another AC but I do feel the fact that the story is the same per base class is a total cop-out and not what BW were pushing pre-launch. They clearly gave the impression that if you roll another class the story would be different and I consider the two different AC of a base class to be seperate and should have different stories.

[VanorDM]

They clearly gave the impression that if you roll another class the story would be different

 

I'm sure that was the plan at one point. But the amount of time and resources it took to do that wasn't available to them. I'd much rather see a system where you picked Jedi Guardian at lvl 1, and had a different story line then the Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Sage or Jedi Shadow.

 

But as other have pointed out, this hardly a new thing. In fact there's a massive more class based content in SWTOR then any other MMO I know of, mostly because most other MMO's have maybe 3-5 class quests per class.

[jgoldsack]

I would be fine with a "ONE-TIME-ONLY-ONCE-YOU-DO-IT-YOU-CAN-NEVER-GO-BACK" scenario. You want to change that AC? No problem. You pay say, 1 million credits, change your AC, and that is what you are for the remainder of your game on that character.

 

That said, I have a 50 sorcerer. I wanted to play an Assassin. So what did I do? I started a brand new character, and am in the process of leveling that character up. I currently am at level 32, and having a grand old time. Hell, I am currently leveling both a Juggernaut and Marauder too!

 

There are options if you want to play a different AC of your same base class. The problem is, people don't want to be bothered to level the same base class again.

[VanorDM]

I would be fine with a "ONE-TIME-ONLY-ONCE-YOU-DO-IT-YOU-CAN-NEVER-GO-BACK" scenario.

 

That won't work.

 

If you can do it at 50 everyone will be expected to do it. Then when the FotM changes everyone will demand another chance to change their AC.

 

It will become like CoH or CO was with respecs/retcons. If a power was fixed, or a new power was added you had lots of people demanding free respecs/retcon every single time a power changed, even if it was a buff, they still demanded a free one.

 

A one time change that expires at say 20, that I could support.