Hokonoso Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm going to compare these devs to the rift devs since they were the last guys to come out with a big mmo... game releases with X number bugs and Y number of combat issues that need to be addressed. rift patch 1.1 releases and the devs listen to the whiners and destroy 1 class and nerf another to the ground in a game that has 4 classes that is 50% of the population causing a mass exodus losing them hundreds of thousands of subscribers. rift patch 1.2 releases and devs listen to the whienrs some more and start playing round robin with the 4 classes nerfing 1-2 per patch for the next 6 patches leaving the game an utter piece of trash that no one can stomach in pvp due to all the nerfs and knee-jerk reactions. This game is taking a similar note but only on a worse scale since there is no combatlog, I know devs have no clue what potential any class has cause they are programers and not gamers and thus simply cannot be expected to maximize a character to their potential... this is where we come in, the players. Let us test each class/spec and tell you who is the strongest... then and only then should you tweak classes for PVE... imo you should never make glaring pvp changes at the start of an mmo, especially one without a pvp ladder system. You guys say this stuff is coming in the future, well the nerfs should come in the future too since right now every pvp nerf effects pve and that should NOT be the case. Balance pve first, then after you have some elaborate pvp system, worry about pvp changes. I'm not saying to leave classes alone, just do it in the right order else you will lose a ton of subscribers (well too late for that, you already started the nerfs). 1.3 isn't helping anyone nor is it wanting anyone to stick around, why nerf everyone? nerfing surge nerfs everyone! people don't want to do less damage, they want to do more damage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KngOfTheWorldMB Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 SW:ToR will be like SWG. Started out promising then they ****ed it up. And will **** it up more. The game won't die however; 100,000 people that were subbed in SWG for all these years kept the 2 devs that were in charge of SWG fed for content, will still be subbed with ToR Just enough to keep the game alive. But this game won't go beyond that. Lucas Arts is the core behind failure. RUSH RUSH RUSH RUSH RUSH. Forcing bioware to trace back probably about a year worth of content that was in development, and put it on hold and tweak what was tested and launch it as the finished product. A year from now we will see what was intended as the initial launched product. But it will be too late. Lucas Arts ****ed this game up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowRavens Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 All I can say is that when it comes to swtor developer changes all you have to do is look at the first patch notes about "balance" Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP. Could not be more obvious as to the future of this mmo that is supposedly pve based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkiree Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) They listened to Zach!!! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=287210 Edited February 13, 2012 by Nikkiree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valdshade Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I would have to agree with this post . I think they are listning just to the wrong people . that is becouse they listen to the elitus jerks that ruin every MMO ever made . You know the type we all have to play with them all the time they know all the "pro gamer " talk and spen countless hours in the test centers. take 2 weeks off work when a new game comes out to lvl there toon the complain there is no content when they just spaced bar the whole game. They use third party Macro programs in pvp " just to get an eadge" or they go afk in WZ becoue the game rewards failure. then once they have all there top lvl pvp gear they complain it is to easy to get so everyone ealse has to work 3-4 times harder to get it ect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frigidman Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The 'worst thing' they can do, is listen to threads like this. Pvp players who cry nerf whenever any change for the better has taken place? Surge was out of control. Their metrics data showed such, they have acted accordingly to it. Bravo to BW for trying to make pvp play out longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floppp Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 This is my first foray into the PTS forum. I have only read 4 posts and already I am out. Whiners criticizing other whiners. I have played MMOs since Kunark and have a lot of experience with these types, and other, games. It always seems that the biggest whiners and moaners are the PVPers. Really I think their complaints of imbalance in classes is more to do with their ineptitude and inability to beat every opponent they come up against. To post here complaining about how this game, barely 2 months old, is so much less than the older established games is pretty childish. I pity your wives and husbands, girlfriends and boyfriends because if you are always comparing new games to previous games, what are you saying to them. Post constructive criticism without the tears, or cancel your subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajizan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 This is my first foray into the PTS forum. I have only read 4 posts and already I am out. Whiners criticizing other whiners. I have played MMOs since Kunark and have a lot of experience with these types, and other, games. It always seems that the biggest whiners and moaners are the PVPers. Really I think their complaints of imbalance in classes is more to do with their ineptitude and inability to beat every opponent they come up against. To post here complaining about how this game, barely 2 months old, is so much less than the older established games is pretty childish. I pity your wives and husbands, girlfriends and boyfriends because if you are always comparing new games to previous games, what are you saying to them. Post constructive criticism without the tears, or cancel your subscription. Do as I say, not as I do.....whiners criticizing other whiners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beergogglez Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I demand this post be taken down 1) It's talking about another game 2) it's talking about another game incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antidentite Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 It always seems that the biggest whiners and moaners are the PVPers. Really I think their complaints of imbalance in classes is more to do with their ineptitude and inability to beat every opponent they come up against. pvp has more scenarios and uses for spells than PVE where you are on (ez mode) rails using 1-2 rotations the entire time. balance is naturally going to be a harder for pvp. but thanks for the condescension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daellia Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Pvp players who cry nerf whenever any change for the better has taken place? Surge was out of control. Their metrics data showed such, they have acted accordingly to it. Bravo to BW for trying to make pvp play out longer. It's not so much about the surge nerf as it is that way and time it's being nerfed. The current nerf to surge is going to lower the stat's benefit far more than the 10% they stated (up to 40%, actually), and actually makes the DR curve sharper. In other words, it's reducing the level of surge rating you actually want to acquire before prioritizing another stat and reducing the benefit significantly. Those that had 400 Surge Rating before (40%) will be unlikely to stack it past 250 now (which will be 23% in the new system). Even if they kept the exact same amount of Surge Rating as previous, this nerf averages out to a 2-4% global nerf to damage and healing. The other issue is the timing. Their itemization and mod system is still very far from robust. Right now, as a DPS, you have 6 options for enhancement slots: Power/Surge, Power/Accuracy, Power/Alacrity, Crit/Surge, Crit/Accuracy, Crit/Alacrity. For most dps, either Accuracy or Alacrity is either completely or mostly useless, and the other is often a very weak stat. That leaves Crit/Surge or Power/Surge, but due to how much Crit is on the unmoddable off-slot gear innately, Power/Surge is generally still the best, even post-nerf. The issue really is with options. DPS have 5 stats that increase their damage (10 possible pairs of stats), but by design only 4 of these (6 pairs) are supposed to be useful to any one spec. Poor mechanics means that generally only 3 are very useful, limiting pairing options down to only 3, and 1 of these (Power/Crit) doesn't exist. Add to that the fact that the Power/Surge enhancements are incredibly difficult to find (only ones I know of are the grade-24 ones out of some of the IA or BH Columi/Champion Helms and Gloves), and you've got a pretty limited system for something that's supposed to be highly customizable. Their DR system is designed to make stacking any stat except Power past about 200-300 show severely reduced benefit, yet current Rakata gear has ~1150 rating itemization on it. What happens when we scale up to even higher level gear, get 1500+ rating itemization? Upgrades cease to be upgrades, as our shiny new tier loot gives us only a 0.1% increase to crit chance. Yay... Their DR for stats is set too low and improperly formulated. What it should be doing is discouraging excessive stacking of one stat without really affecting balanced stacking. What it's doing right now is setting a fairly low bar past which DR means upgrades don't really exist in the traditional sense. In fact, for Surge, their change has actually increased the speed at which it approaches the cap. As a percentage of the cap for the stat, 1.1.3 surge gained around 20-30% more of the cap per point over the practical range for the stat. In fact, if they had wanted a truly stable nerf, they should have gone with something more like cap 0.5 divisor 0.16, which is very close to the Absorption curve. Compared to 1.1.2, it's roughly a 20-25% nerf to the stat across the board, but it retains much of it's general shape. Initially it would be even worse than 1.1.3, but would cross the DR curve for the current 1.1.3 Surge at about 22% (~225 rating), and thereafter would be better than 1.1.3 and worse than 1.1.2. It would increase the Surge Rating necessary to reach the old oft-vaunted total of 40% by 50% to 600 rating, beyond the reach of most players, and flatten out the DR curve a fair amount (so the stat isn't quite so amazing for those first few 100 points or so, but reduces in benefit at a slower and smoother rate). That would have been a much saner nerf. Edited February 13, 2012 by Daellia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JUICY- Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Wait... so the Rift devs made a bad decision by nerfing pyromancer? This was the class that could turret in a casted circle that made them immune to CC, two/three-shot every single conceivable combination of souls except those who had a spell reflect, and literally solo an entire team with a pocket healer? Ya... terrible choice. Edited February 13, 2012 by -JUICY- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarothxp Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Most of the people complaining just want I win buttons in pvp like those that were in that Blizzard game that shall remain unnamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSlayAlot Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I know devs have no clue what potential any class has cause they are programers and not gamers and thus simply cannot be expected to maximize a character to their potential... this is where we come in, the players. Let us test each class/spec and tell you who is the strongest... then and only then should you tweak classes for PVE... imo you should never make glaring pvp changes at the start of an mmo, especially one without a pvp ladder system. You are delusional, and I can only assume your whole post is about, not listening to the wrong crowd, which, I would put you in that group. TLDR: Devs, Don't listen to this guy, he has NFI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwiz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I know devs have no clue what potential any class has cause they are programers and not gamers and thus simply cannot be expected to maximize a character to their potential... Congrats for writing the stupidest thing I have ever read in the forums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hironobu Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm pretty sure they don't listen to anybody, anyway. PvP has been broke on our server for 2 months, constant 8 vs 6 matches all day long. Now the Republic side, which has 3 times as many players and always has PvP healers, has a crapload of battlemasters running around while the Imperial side, still expected to win games 6 vs 8, has trash for gear and a bunch of new players that scrape by to purchase bags by losing 20 matches a day. It's a joke. GG BIOWARE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doodirock Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I know devs have no clue what potential any class has cause they are programers and not gamers I was listening until I read this. /facepalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexusbob Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) All I can say is that when it comes to swtor developer changes all you have to do is look at the first patch notes about "balance" Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP. Could not be more obvious as to the future of this mmo that is supposedly pve based. thes is a PvE and Story focus Game NOT a PvP game - Bio told os it all redy way back in 2008 and the only put pvp in the game so we can try som ting els if we like to - the faster u all get thes in u head - maby the fix all the bugs Edited February 14, 2012 by nexusbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochat Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 pvp has more scenarios and uses for spells than PVE where you are on (ez mode) rails using 1-2 rotations the entire time. balance is naturally going to be a harder for pvp. but thanks for the condescension Well, it's not like challengers can actually comprehend high level competitive arena play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWF Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Bravo to BW for trying to make pvp play out longer. Longer? Hmmm Lets disallow use any skills and weapons in PVP and allow use only fists strikes. And lets increase all armor rate and HP in 100 times Then, u will с a really LOOOOOOOONG PVP Edited February 14, 2012 by SilverWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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