Ashes_Arizona Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Just want to bring up something that I think that anyone that plays the classes already knows but...let me just go ahead and say it in plain language and then I'll go into detail. YOU ARE NOT BUILT FOR PVP SO GET OUT OF THE DAMN WARZONE. Now let me be a little more detailed in my explanation here. I'm sure people can throw down any manner of justification as to why Jedi Guardians and Juggernaut Immortals are PvP viable but I really don't care about one or two abilities that makes this highly under developed and well nigh to useless set of classes stand out in very situational circumstances in WZ's. Simple facts are is if you gear for tanking at all you're consistently gearing for three things aside from your base stats of END/STR. The gear path for a tank is generally Defense Rating/Absorb/Shield Rating. Now here is the deal, any class spec'd towards tanking is never going to be as effective as its class DPS counter parts in PvP. Your shield does not make you more survivable in PvP, neither does your defense rating or your absorb rating. The reason I say this is because while being able to shrug off a saber hit or a blaster bolt is all well and good no one that has a clue what they're doing in PvP is relying solely and totally on their main hand weapon. And your Shield/Def/Absorb all pretty much apply to your ability to mitigate the primary payloads that come from main hand/offhand weapon capabilities. Tech and Force damage are NOT avoided or mitigated by shields. Period. You can sit there all day and wait for your shield to proc while a Bounty Hunter sprays you with fire or a Commando grav rounds you into paste, its never going to happen. Anyways simple facts are if you're spec'd to tank, stop complaining in WZ's, cause you're not going to be any good and its not anyone's fault that you're getting ROFLSTOMPED by people that have 4 - 5 Tech/Force instants that completely ignore your classes designed defenses. Its not my gear, its not your gear, I'm not cheating and the game isn't bugged, unless you just consider poor class vision a bug, then yes you may be right. So shut up and go back to farming HM FP's, get your Rakata gear, and stop nerd raging in WZ's when I melt your face. Edited February 13, 2012 by Ashes_Arizona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Show us on the doll where the bad Juggernaut touched you. Juggernaut tanks (and generally any tanking specced class) are AWESOME in pvp. They make awesome hutball runners, node defenders, healer defenders. And they still can output the hurts. Also, no tank ever uses +def equip in PVP, they simply use offensive equip with a tanking spec. You should probably stay away from PVP if you think tanks don't belong there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacity Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 no one that has a clue what they're doing in PvP is relying solely and totally on their main hand weapon. Except for Snipers/Gunslingers and Marauders/Sentinels, the latter of which are generally the most populated classes in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Show us on the doll where the bad Juggernaut touched you. Juggernaut tanks (and generally any tanking specced class) are AWESOME in pvp. They make awesome hutball runners, node defenders, healer defenders. And they still can output the hurts. Also, no tank ever uses +def equip in PVP, they simply use offensive equip with a tanking spec. You should probably stay away from PVP if you think tanks don't belong there. LOL I destroy tanks and I'm not even a Merc I'm a Powertech. Everything an Immortal/Guardian can do, I can do better. They only have one thing they can do thats better than what I can put on the table and its their 9 second slow...but, wait, their 9 second slow doesn't apply to be because I've got Hydraulic Overrides, sorry glowstickers, but you're pretty much out performed at every turn by people that don't have "force powers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhyw Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Just want to bring up something that I think that anyone that plays the classes already knows but...let me just go ahead and say it in plain language and then I'll go into detail. YOU ARE NOT BUILT FOR PVP SO GET OUT OF THE DAMN WARZONE. Now let me be a little more detailed in my explanation here. I'm sure people can throw down any manner of justification as to why Jedi Guardians and Juggernaut Immortals are PvP viable but I really don't care about one or two abilities that makes this highly under developed and well nigh to useless set of classes stand out in very situational circumstances in WZ's. Simple facts are is if you gear for tanking at all you're consistently gearing for three things aside from your base stats of END/STR. The gear path for a tank is generally Defense Rating/Absorb/Shield Rating. Now here is the deal, any class spec'd towards tanking is never going to be as effective as its class DPS counter parts in PvP. Your shield does not make you more survivable in PvP, neither does your defense rating or your absorb rating. The reason I say this is because while being able to shrug off a saber hit or a blaster bolt is all well and good no one that has a clue what they're doing in PvP is relying solely and totally on their main hand weapon. And your Shield/Def/Absorb all pretty much apply to your ability to mitigate the primary payloads that come from main hand/offhand weapon capabilities. Tech and Force damage are NOT avoided or mitigated by shields. Period. You can sit there all day and wait for your shield to proc while a Bounty Hunter sprays you with fire or a Commando grav rounds you into paste, its never going to happen. Anyways simple facts are if you're spec'd to tank, stop complaining in WZ's, cause you're not going to be any good and its not anyone's fault that you're getting ROFLSTOMPED by people that have 4 - 5 Tech/Force instants that completely ignore your classes designed defenses. Its not my gear, its not your gear, I'm not cheating and the game isn't bugged, unless you just consider poor class vision a bug, then yes you may be right. So shut up and go back to farming HM FP's, get your Rakata gear, and stop nerd raging in WZ's when I melt your face. Someone died in wz by a juggi? Im inmortal spec and im very happy with that. I can survive a lot and make decent dps, guarding my m8s, and with more ccs than other tree spec. I cn jump to enemies every 15 secs and to allies every 20 secs. This is a totally win spec for pvp. Cause the cc. Btw, im almost full bm and off/deff mix of gear. In 1vs1 i can beat everything. ps: l2p Edited February 13, 2012 by jonhyw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Except for Snipers/Gunslingers and Marauders/Sentinels, the latter of which are generally the most populated classes in the game. Top end Snipers aren't full Marksmanship spec, they're hybrid Marksman/Engineering spec which is almost 80% Tech damage from DoT's combined with their sniping its pretty deadly, full marksmen are not that difficult. Same with Gunslingers. Good Gunslingers are hybrids. Marauders and Sentinels have their largest DPS output based on crit DoT damage which is force power, its applied by using mainhand weapons and the mainhand weapons do damage, yes, but its not the sabers that kill you, its the DoT's that come with it. All four of which are DPS classes built with damage output and in some cases mobility in mind, all of which Immortal and Guardian tanks don't have. None of those are tanks. None of them base their survivability in a mechanic which has no functional use in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Someone died in wz by a juggi? Im inmortal spec and im very happy with that. I can survive a lot and make decent dps, guarding my m8s, and with more ccs than other tree spec. I cn jump to enemies every 15 secs and to allies every 20 secs. This is a totally win spec for pvp. Cause the cc. Btw, im almost full bm and off/deff mix of gear. In 1vs1 i can beat everything. ps: l2p LOL what is it with you people, I've never been killed by a juggernaut in PvP ever, or a guardian, they're laughably easy to kill. I feel sorry for them. What I'm saying is stop ************ at me/sending me hate tells cause your class sucks. Its not my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 LOL I destroy tanks and I'm not even a Merc I'm a Powertech. Everything an Immortal/Guardian can do, I can do better. They only have one thing they can do thats better than what I can put on the table and its their 9 second slow...but, wait, their 9 second slow doesn't apply to be because I've got Hydraulic Overrides, sorry glowstickers, but you're pretty much out performed at every turn by people that don't have "force powers". Look I'm a Powertech too, Parakeet spec (i.e. Tank). There is simply nothing that can destroy me 1 on 1 besides a well geared Marauder/Sentinel. I have Charge + Pull + Slows + 2 Stuns meaning I can score a LOT in huttball games. Also Hydraulic overrides, lol, AP spec. Go back to PVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Look I'm a Powertech too, Parakeet spec (i.e. Tank). There is simply nothing that can destroy me 1 on 1 besides a well geared Marauder/Sentinel. I have Charge + Pull + Slows + 2 Stuns meaning I can score a LOT in huttball games. Also Hydraulic overrides, lol, AP spec. Go back to PVE. AP spec own's Shield Tech any day of the week. Proven over and over. I have trouble with nothing but stacks of Jedi Consulars, or a particularly good team of Commandos. You believe whatever you want to believe. On a server full of bads you probably do look awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prolyfic Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 In theorycraft numbers-by-the-book pvp this thread may make a pt that isn't stupid. but guess what I do when I pvp in swtor? I play huttball. Where the ability to have a ton of hps, ability to charge and move around, and the ability to generally survive better than any other class when receiving healing is actually USEFUL to helping you win. Guess what DPS doesn't do for you in huttball. Score the ball. You can stop scores against you with dps all day long but unless you just like to tie, tanks are far better ballrunners than any dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 AP spec own's Shield Tech any day of the week. Proven over and over. I have trouble with nothing but stacks of Jedi Consulars, or a particularly good team of Commandos. You believe whatever you want to believe. On a server full of bads you probably do look awesome. I see lots of APs. They tickle me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwormbified Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Just wait for nerfs for Powertech/Vanguard. They are next. ;] Edited February 13, 2012 by Mindwormbified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Just wait for nerfs for Powertech/Vanguard. They are next. ;] Yeah I'm sure they're coming seeing as we can't leave anyone but Jedi Consulars PvP viable. Nerf EVERYONE except Jedi Consulars. Seeing as thats all anyones gonna be playing pretty soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbstealer Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 LOL I destroy tanks and I'm not even a Merc I'm a Powertech. Everything an Immortal/Guardian can do, I can do better. They only have one thing they can do thats better than what I can put on the table and its their 9 second slow...but, wait, their 9 second slow doesn't apply to be because I've got Hydraulic Overrides, sorry glowstickers, but you're pretty much out performed at every turn by people that don't have "force powers". powertechs are the only class that i have trouble with as a hybrid vig/def guardian. 14/27/0 with all dps pvp gear. there is pretty much nothing i can do to kill a powertech, even if i do everything perfectly i still wont win against a powertech with equal gear. other then powertechs, my guardian is a beast in 1v1 situations. i'm not sure why powertechs eat me like they do when not even ops can do that, but it is what it is. @ OP, tank spec'd tanks who gear with crit/surge/power are very hard to kill and do decent damage, not good but decent. we keep people alive, and control enemies to make it easier for our team to kill people. i've personally been responsible for many guarded healer deaths even tho i didnt kill the healer. i just controled him and his guard buddy well enough that the guard couldnt keep the healer alive while my buddies killed him. pvp is not only about dps and who can hit the hardest, there are many other aspects you need to take into account. pls come back when you've finally had this epiphany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Thanks for stating the obvious that Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight both need some major power boosting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacity Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Just wait for nerfs for Powertech/Vanguard. They are next. ;] You kidding? They're probably the two least overpowered ACs in the game right now, only a notch above snipers and gunslingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediRios Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You my friend are wrong in so many ways. Next time think about what your saying before you start a thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogstomp Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 This just in, Guard and Taunt = ftw. Dumb thread is dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geewiz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Maybe shields/ defense should apply to everything then, if we need to "get out of warzones" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelaias Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Someone died in wz by a juggi? Im inmortal spec and im very happy with that. I can survive a lot and make decent dps, guarding my m8s, and with more ccs than other tree spec. I cn jump to enemies every 15 secs and to allies every 20 secs. This is a totally win spec for pvp. Cause the cc. Btw, im almost full bm and off/deff mix of gear. In 1vs1 i can beat everything. ps: l2p You are lying. I can see this working in an organized group with a dedicated healer but other than that and especially the defense spec guardians are a horrible horrible class despite having the above mentioned cc. Shadows and vanguards can do it better. Sad but true. Also, by playing a guardian in pvp you are dragging your group down. Very soft and horrible dps? Sign me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelaias Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) This just in, Guard and Taunt = ftw. Dumb thread is dumb. I agree, assuming you are talking vanguards and shadows. If not then no, it's not good enough. Edited February 14, 2012 by Aelaias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psio Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I fought a juggernaut once. I died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostDrone Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Stupid thread, stupid OP. Go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) OP, I don't understand what you're trying to say. Tank spec characters are full support all the way. Smart/capable tanks are not going to waste time trying to kill you, they're going to harass, slow, hamper, and annoy. The good ones are always partnered with a healer. That means the good ones never die. I myself play full immortal, and I never que for warzones without my heal monkey partner. The results are awesome for us both. Playing full support correctly = near immortality for us both. Could you kill me one-on-one? I don't doubt it. But I don't play alone. Edited February 14, 2012 by sanctified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) You are lying. I can see this working in an organized group with a dedicated healer but other than that and especially the defense spec guardians are a horrible horrible class despite having the above mentioned cc. Shadows and vanguards can do it better. Sad but true. Also, by playing a guardian in pvp you are dragging your group down. Very soft and horrible dps? Sign me up. That sentiment is Stupid. Really, really, Stupid. As if one had some kind of personal obligation to a bunch of faceless strangers to play the 'right' class to make things easier for the good of all. It's an MMO. One Day it's the Guardians, the next it'll be the Vanguards, the shadows, the whatever. The cycle of development guarantees beyond a shadow of a doubt that what's weak today will be strong tomorrow will be weak again next week. Are we all seriously supposed to drop our mains and re-roll flavor of the month in order to avoid 'dragging the group down?' Are you going to do that when they buff the whatevers, and nerf your class? I'm soooo curious. Edited February 14, 2012 by sanctified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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