Dyroi-Thader Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet I agree with this 100% i've played pretty much every mmo and have pulled alot of my preferences from the experience UO, EQ,E&B,DAoC, Shadowbane, SWG,EQ2 and planet side to name a few. All of them have a few major things incommon, Day/night cycle, swimming, gm events, post creation character alterations, ship/house decorating(minus planet side) This game has some very advanced features but its almost like they skipped the basics because they were so focused on the fine details of their story lines. BioWare now that you have launched your epic it's time to make it epic. Go back to the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) your speeder is fast? mine doesn't seem to go any faster than my horse in wow. so we play in a world where spaceships go from one end of the galaxy to the other in seconds, but my "speeder" does 27 mph. makes sense I gotta admit there should be a bigger increase between the tiers of speeders. maybe 20 - 30% faster than the last. Unlike the 10% that we have now. Then that could open the door for crafters to make speeders, of different designs and colours, with "augment" slots for armour or speed increase (+10%) Edited February 12, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I guess I'm an MMO 'vet'. Been playing these things for almost 12 years now. I'm enjoying SWTOR quite a bit. BW has certainly nailed the Star Wars feel, and I'm fairly immersed in the world when I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I guess I'm an MMO 'vet'. Been playing these things for almost 12 years now. I'm enjoying SWTOR quite a bit. BW has certainly nailed the Star Wars feel, and I'm fairly immersed in the world when I play. Well I'm jealous. Mostly, I'm immersed in loading screens and orbital stations, or just picking my *** on the fleet while I wait to get a group for something... ANYTHING. Oh 2 have your luck. Edited February 12, 2012 by Bazouk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 MMO's existed before said demographic discovered this genre. Not surprisingly, many would attest the quality of game was higher without the rich, vivid and beautiful bells and whistles. Then go back to the beautiful EQ? It still exists. The fact of the matter is casual gamers are the ones who subsidize the rabid playstyles of hardcore players. Without casual gamers, you would in fact be forced to play a low quality game like EQ or Darkfall, or any number of games that now try to cater to this niche market, but lack the budget to really implement their games. Even the vaunted EVE Online realized it needed to appeal to the Solo and Casual players out there. But seriously, there are games devoted to non-casual game play. You will find them chugging along with low subs, graphics that are decades old, and updates about as frequent as Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Then go back to the beautiful EQ? It still exists. The fact of the matter is casual gamers are the ones who subsidize the rabid playstyles of hardcore players. Without casual gamers, you would in fact be forced to play a low quality game like EQ or Darkfall, or any number of games that now try to cater to this niche market, but lack the budget to really implement their games. Even the vaunted EVE Online realized it needed to appeal to the Solo and Casual players out there. But seriously, there are games devoted to non-casual game play. You will find them chugging along with low subs, graphics that are decades old, and updates about as frequent as Christmas. So, let me get this straight, rather than advocate for the game to be fleshed out more so that not only those with "casual" taste enjoy it, but others can to, instead you prefer to tell people to leave the game? I really hope you realise the negative effect that such action could have on how much others enjoy the game. Why can't an MMO have the richness in graphics that later MMO's have, whilst ALSO incorporating the richness of features found in earlier MMOs? Surely a product which is rich in as many areas as possible is going to be better than one which only focuses richness in particular areas? Edited February 13, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarry Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 No we can thank the casuals that played WoW. No, really Yes, the casuals who make up what, 80% of the playerbase? BW would be idiots to cater to the powerlevelers and the l33t epic d00dz who raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yes, the casuals who make up what, 80% of the playerbase? BW would be idiots to cater to the powerlevelers and the l33t epic d00dz who raid. What's stopping them from catering for both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobson Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Been playing MMO's since I was 8, I'm 19 now. This game is absolute garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janne_josefsson Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I played wow since vanilla and spent my post level cap time with high end raiding. A few months after cata i realized that i was dissapointed with Blizzards pace of introducing new ideas which had resulted in years of lack of content. I quit, and i have not looked back since. SWTOR needs some tuning, there are plenty of broken content, unrefined aspects of pvp and unfinished parts of the game. But the question one should remember while crying over the forums about how flawless wow is in comparison is, how good was vanilla wow retail in comparison? -------- PRO'S -------- 1. Fantastic work on at least half of the questlines and flashpoints. So far i have only taken the bounthunter classquestline to lvl 41, it is so well written that i am blown away with it. Together with the limited variety of dark/light choices, this makes me WANT to level an alt without zombie xp grinding to max for the sake of maxing all classes. Another thing i apreciate with this is that i feel that i could be a casual player without feeling the pressure to grind gear fast because there are other things to explore aswell besides clearing raid content. 2. Interesting companion system that gives me a bit of that cozy Kotor feeling. 3. Lorewise it is overall interesting, stuff is happening everywhere and it happens for a reason. Hate to compare it to wow but i just have to get it off my chest. Its good to see two factions at war without ever having that ridicolous feeling that the conflict between the factions is a bit forced. 4. It's graphically beautiful. 5. Has an AH system that up to a point prevents secbysec undercutting. If i place an item on AH that gets undercut i cannot just cancel and repost it as much as i want because that would hurt my wallet too much. It is relaxing to say the least. 6. It is star wars. ----------- Cons ----------- 1. Painfully unbalanced pvp content. 2. Bugs, Bugs and BUGS! Broken class quest chains is a big NO NO! 3. Loading screens, loading screens and of course Loading screens. 4. quite a few unecessary middlezones between you, your ship and the point youre trying to reach. 5. No max graphic setting. 6. painful UI. 7. voiceover in huttball. 8. No LFD tool ------------------------------ Some of the cons will be adressed in next major patch and since more and more stuff gets fixed gradually on a weekly basis i am more than willing to give this game a few months worth of waiting for fixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So, let me get this straight, rather than advocate for the game to be fleshed out more so that not only those with "casual" taste enjoy it, but others can to, instead you prefer to tell people to leave the game? I really hope you realise the negative effect that such action could have on how much others enjoy the game. Why can't an MMO have the richness in graphics that later MMO's have, whilst ALSO incorporating the richness of features found in earlier MMOs? Surely a product which is rich in as many areas as possible is going to be better than one which only focuses richness in particular areas? You're addressing a point entirely different then the thread of conversation I was having with the person I quoted. In other words, you're putting words into my mouth. People on this thread are denigrated casual players. I'm pointing out that casual players are the ones who fund these games. I pointed out that games do exist which only cater to hardcore players, but those are often underfunded (and the quality shows it). From this reasoning, it is only logical for those who despise casual players so much to move on to a game that caters to hardcore players. As to your point, I'm not sure what 'rich' hardcore features of previous MMOs you're speaking of. What features for hardcore players should be added that also don't impact casual game play? Are corpse runs a 'rich' feature? lol. That certainly isn't casual-friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillfort Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Could be that a lot of people are happy with the game as it on my server there seems to be hardily any complaining and then only about class balance in PVP. Maybe we should be Vet enough not to read MMO forums:) I would have liked a very different game but for the most part it seems ok. It will be interesting to see how quick there is a roll out of content I have a feeling they have something that will take us by surprise. I am sure there will be a lot of people leaving for Guild Wars anyway. Despite what people think when the pandas come out it might kill the game anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Well I'm jealous. Mostly, I'm immersed in loading screens and orbital stations, or just picking my *** on the fleet while I wait to get a group for something... ANYTHING. Oh 2 have your luck. I have one main at 44lvl. Crafting all of my mods (the ones I'm able to anyway) for me and my companions. I have a few alts at around 13lvl, and will likely level a few of those up further. I stay primarily on planets, so I don't get a lot of loading screens. Loading screens in general don't bother me as I'm used to them from other games (Skyrim, other BW products, EQ, EVE). Loading screens are a happy trade off for improved performance and gameplay. Edited February 13, 2012 by Cerion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMofGod Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet That is a really good post. And sadly it only takes about a week to figure all that out. Where are you SWTOR developers and producers? The glaring problems are obvious! 5 more days on my sub. Boycotting the studios based on this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) As to your point, I'm not sure what 'rich' hardcore features of previous MMOs you're speaking of. What features for hardcore players should be added that also don't impact casual game play? Are corpse runs a 'rich' feature? lol. That certainly isn't casual-friendly. I find your question interesting, because I never implied that there are features that apply to hardcore players and don't impact casual players. You wouldn't be putting words into peoples mouths now would you? Nevertheless, there ARE features in other MMOs which could be argued do indeed apply MORE (not necessarily only) to what could be classified as a "mid to hardcore" player. For instance, there could be systems in place which require more than just a glorified vending machine (i.e. the crafting and missions system). My point is that there should be features and facets that players can actually "sink their teeth into" and have something long term to work towards. And let's face facts, there is really very little of that in the game right now. Edited February 13, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 loading screens are a happy trade off for improved performance and gameplay. what is this "improved performance and gameplay" ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillfort Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 What's stopping them from catering for both? Both sets of the player base physiology. I don't believe You can have and have nots in an healthy profitable game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have one main at 44lvl. Crafting all of my mods (the ones I'm able to anyway) for me and my companions. I have a few alts at around 13lvl, and will likely level a few of those up further. I stay primarily on planets, so I don't get a lot of loading screens. Loading screens in general don't bother me as I'm used to them from other games (Skyrim, other BW products, EQ, EVE). Loading screens are a happy trade off for improved performance and gameplay. Try doing dailies and running from fleet->ship->airlock->orbital station->planet and back again a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So, let me get this straight, rather than advocate for the game to be fleshed out more so that not only those with "casual" taste enjoy it, but others can to, instead you prefer to tell people to leave the game? I really hope you realise the negative effect that such action could have on how much others enjoy the game. Why can't an MMO have the richness in graphics that later MMO's have, whilst ALSO incorporating the richness of features found in earlier MMOs? Surely a product which is rich in as many areas as possible is going to be better than one which only focuses richness in particular areas? I think what he was saying is either post something constructive or QQ somewhere else. The game does have certain issues, but I take heart in the evidence that BW does listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Both sets of the player base physiology. I don't believe You can have and have nots in an healthy profitable game. Why? What makes "casual" gameplay so exclusive that it blocks out the possibility of other forms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortalha Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That is a really good post. And sadly it only takes about a week to figure all that out. Where are you SWTOR developers and producers? The glaring problems are obvious! 5 more days on my sub. Boycotting the studios based on this game. Let's all be happy that they will add something great before those 5 days end so people sub one more month...."cmon.. we need them one more month".... after that month "hey, lets add something else before this month ends".. etc Thats how this game is running right now. They will add fluffy useless crap every last week of the month, hoping to grab people to pay one more month. Its like playing a game while having a terminal cancer, not knowing if we will last this month or just one more after this. Its pretty sad. Complete garbage game. Love the story crap but that's just it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Look people, the bottom line is... My butt is *********** huge. And until they fix that, there's just no reason to pay for this. Edited February 13, 2012 by Bazouk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrage Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Why can't an MMO have the richness in graphics that later MMO's have, whilst ALSO incorporating the richness of features found in earlier MMOs? They could. But Bioware is not the team to do it. And neither is Mythic. They just had to money to create "this". Bioware excels at single player story driven RPG's. Mythic excels at creating MMO's that have ground breaking features and a crappy world. WoW was really an excellent game. And I'd love WoW 2 but it'll never happen. WoW was a complete world that allowed you to sandbox the game if you wanted to. It had dungeons well off the beaten path that were fully itemized from level 15ish to 60. While it had questing up the wazoo for the time, it didn't force people to quest, and in fact many grinded by choice. What the problem I see in today's MMO's is they try to copy WoW's quests and streamline leveling while forgetting the whole "world" part that WoW actually had down pat. Part of playing an MMO to me is learning the lay of the land. EQ did this the best. If you were in Oasis the first time, Lockjaw would get you. Or a sand giant. Even tranquil places like East Commons had griffs. When you first went to Unrest you weren't ready for Unrest. When you first went to Guk you were lost easily. On and on. And EQ had you keep coming back to the same content over and over in a way that actually took a long time to get old. In WoW, didn't everyone run SM a ton? Deadmines? It took a long time to get stale. In both games the loot was worth it, but it usually took you several runs to get all you wanted from an area. And with EQ the journey was the game. In WoW, it was too for at least 6 months for "most" people. It was a huge deal to get certain dungeon items. In SWG, while I'm leveling, who cares about the crap loot I get? I'm not running the same FP 4 or 5 times to get all the loot I could from it. It's all crap. It's not better then what I already got by much, and I'll replace it next planet easily with commendations or vendors. And the loot, while leveling doesn't even do much. They upgrade levels are puny and crap. A good example in WoW was the wingblade. As horde around level 14 you get a red quest for an instance and the rewards are weapons for most classes. One, the wingblade, was a 15.8 dps weapon. At the time you got that your current weapon was around 7 dps. It would literally, almost double your dps if you got it then. But the time you typically can get it (18ish) you're probably around 10dps on your weapon, it's still an upgrade and would last you for around 5 levels. But the point was the game, WoW, showed you a peak at what was to come and I spent a few days trying to get a group together to do the content to get my uber weapon!!!! SWTOR has NONE of that crap. Not even word of mouth crap. In EQ I wanted a mino axe first time I saw one. Journeyman boots. Obtainable around level 25 with a group were UBER and you'd keep them to 50. Hell, I remember saving play after plat for a combine weapon in EQ, took me like 5 levels to save from the time I first saw them till the time I got one. Both games had hooks. Open worlds that let you travel and see if the other side was better. SWTOR has NONE of that. It has all the modern features. It just forgot the world to put them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I played wow since vanilla and spent my post level cap time with high end raiding. A few months after cata i realized that i was dissapointed with Blizzards pace of introducing new ideas which had resulted in years of lack of content. I quit, and i have not looked back since. SWTOR needs some tuning, there are plenty of broken content, unrefined aspects of pvp and unfinished parts of the game. But the question one should remember while crying over the forums about how flawless wow is in comparison is, how good was vanilla wow retail in comparison? -------- PRO'S -------- 1. Fantastic work on at least half of the questlines and flashpoints. So far i have only taken the bounthunter classquestline to lvl 41, it is so well written that i am blown away with it. Together with the limited variety of dark/light choices, this makes me WANT to level an alt without zombie xp grinding to max for the sake of maxing all classes. Another thing i apreciate with this is that i feel that i could be a casual player without feeling the pressure to grind gear fast because there are other things to explore aswell besides clearing raid content. 2. Interesting companion system that gives me a bit of that cozy Kotor feeling. 3. Lorewise it is overall interesting, stuff is happening everywhere and it happens for a reason. Hate to compare it to wow but i just have to get it off my chest. Its good to see two factions at war without ever having that ridicolous feeling that the conflict between the factions is a bit forced. 4. It's graphically beautiful. 5. Has an AH system that up to a point prevents secbysec undercutting. If i place an item on AH that gets undercut i cannot just cancel and repost it as much as i want because that would hurt my wallet too much. It is relaxing to say the least. 6. It is star wars. ----------- Cons ----------- 1. Painfully unbalanced pvp content. 2. Bugs, Bugs and BUGS! Broken class quest chains is a big NO NO! 3. Loading screens, loading screens and of course Loading screens. 4. quite a few unecessary middlezones between you, your ship and the point youre trying to reach. 5. No max graphic setting. 6. painful UI. 7. voiceover in huttball. 8. No LFD tool ------------------------------ Some of the cons will be adressed in next major patch and since more and more stuff gets fixed gradually on a weekly basis i am more than willing to give this game a few months worth of waiting for fixes. You sir, summed up my sentiments to the t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think what he was saying is either post something constructive or QQ somewhere else. The game does have certain issues, but I take heart in the evidence that BW does listen. Even if it is the most well written constructive kind, criticism on these forums is often just labelled and categorised as "whining" or "QQing". You and I have both seen that happen many times Azzras. And therein lies the problem, people seem to think that they're own subjective opinion on what is and what isn't constructive applies to all circumstances. Only the devs are in a position to judge criticism. So any poster that essentially tells others to "QQ elswhere" or go and play another game is really not in a position to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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