Vecke Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 We know you enjoy the game because you are making up excuses for it and telling anyone who doesnt like it to just give it time. I didn't make a single excuse for the game. Not one. And I most certainly did not tell anyone to "just give it time." I simply said that we don't have the information to determine whether or not this direction will succeed. As a matter of fact, the very last thing I said was: " At the same time, I understand those that don't." For the record, I think you SHOULD speak up about the things you don't like about the game. I think you SHOULD post it in the suggestion box. I love this game, but - as I said in the same post you quoted - I think your dislike of the game is completely justified. I did not - and will never - attack someone for not liking this game. I specifically stated I can understand why you don't like it. Not sure why you found it necessary to attack me for liking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 i think once TOR gives us bigger planets and a reason to go out and fight over the crap on those planets (pvp,gathering, just farming in general , world bosses..etc) we wil be in good shape . they just nerfed open world farming. especially droid scavenging. i don't think they're going where you think they're going with this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I think this could have been a kickass single-player game, it would have blown Skyrim out of the water if they focused on making it Kotor 3 instead of Space WoW. Still pretty good, but not on par with Mass Effect. I played EVE online before I came here, so I actually don't mind going out to make my own content when I hit 50, but I recognize that once you "finish" your story right now, there's more incentive to go back and start another one than continuing on with "end game" content. Basically, they've got about 8 months to make 50 worth playing than rolling alts imo, because that's how long it will take most of their playerbase to max out all 8 classes and see both faction's storylines. If you think the players are going to max out all 8 classes just for the story and then hope there is endgame you are a fool. The game is dead and done. It went into the fight and got destroyed in the first round. There will not be many people that will give this game 8 months for something it should of had from the start and the drop in subs is proof. Just keep staying on the forums saying that this game is great because we both know we are not logging into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grueber Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 This game is way, waaaay harder than WoW. You can auto attack your way to level 60 in wow. You never die while leveling because everything does little to no damage. How many times have you seen people asking for help on quests in WoW? How many in swtor ? People die A LOT while questing in SWTOR. I don't think anyone in this thread has played wow in the past 4 years if you think SWTOR is easier. Maybe operations might be easier, but that's just numbers tuning and wow has certainly had it's share of snoozefest raids that could be cleared easily before they even brought in hard modes. (naxx, toc, ICC) swtor is not any more difficult than WoW after launch. I have never had to ask anyone for help leveling 3 toons far enough to finish their quest storylines. I can solo nearly all heroic 2 content unless a particularly class was ill-suited for it (i.e. low-level marauder before you get all the additional abilities). I can solo several of the heroic 4 content. Not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 This game is way, waaaay harder than WoW. You can auto attack your way to level 60 in wow. You never die while leveling because everything does little to no damage. How many times have you seen people asking for help on quests in WoW? How many in swtor ? People die A LOT while questing in SWTOR. I don't think anyone in this thread has played wow in the past 4 years if you think SWTOR is easier. Maybe operations might be easier, but that's just numbers tuning and wow has certainly had it's share of snoozefest raids that could be cleared easily before they even brought in hard modes. (naxx, toc, ICC) how many times did you raid ICC without the buff? did you ever kill Anub'arak in ToC 25 on Hard Mode without full ICC Gear? did you ever kill Algalon 25 without ToC gear? WoW had really hard ****. it still does. people just choose not to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badseed Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 they just nerfed open world farming. especially droid scavenging. i don't think they're going where you think they're going with this game. nerfing means it takes more time to gather? how does that take away from what i said in any way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 nerfing means it takes more time to gather? how does that take away from what i said in any way ? because it's faster to do it with your companions now. so there's no reason to go out into the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet To be fair that's not a bad "to fix" list (except the faction talk, it's fine as it is with just /say), but equally SWTOR has done a lot right too..... but still a lot off that list could use being fixed. Edited February 12, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 To be fair that's not a bad "to fix" list, but equally SWTOR has done a lot right too..... but still a lot off that list could use being fixed. that list is missing hundreds of items. that's just one person's list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 that list is missing hundreds of items. that's just one person's list. Also would like to know all the things they did right LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selaik Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 that list is missing hundreds of items. that's just one person's list. Really hunderds ? so basically just take every mmo other and put them in a blender and there you go the perfect MMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wikileeks Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 weather was a pretty cool thing in other MMOs, /QUOTE] wow added it much later people forget wow is 8 years old, at first the game was messed up big time no weather.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melonfarmer Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet The bolded ones really annoy me, the bold-italics mildly annoy me, and the italics would have been nice but don't matter much to me. The rest I don't care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'd say less than 1% of the population will be doing all 8 classes in the next 8 months. After you leave the home planet most of the quests are the same. It gets really old, really fast, and becomes a complete grind. I beg to differ on this. They may be the same quests, but the NPCs (Non-Player Characters) interact with different classes/genders differently. Our characters have different responses to to each NPC. The voice actors' have different lines throughout the game. Also, it's fun to play each class to it's true Star Wars intent; ie: Trooper go military style choices, Scoundrel is in it for the money and lookin' out for #1, etc. The point is, each class is different to play no matter the quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 swtor is not any more difficult than WoW after launch. I have never had to ask anyone for help leveling 3 toons far enough to finish their quest storylines. I can solo nearly all heroic 2 content unless a particularly class was ill-suited for it (i.e. low-level marauder before you get all the additional abilities). I can solo several of the heroic 4 content. Not hard. And you can do the same in any other MMO. (I wish I had the count of how many times you died trying to solo a 4man AT your level. I bet your death count is waaaay up there!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Maybe operations might be easier, but that's just numbers tuning and wow has certainly had it's share of snoozefest raids that could be cleared easily before they even brought in hard modes. (naxx, toc, ICC) Yup, naxx was rehashed and VERY boring ToC was a joke. ICC was a little ok, but was weak overall. Let's not leave out that Onixia was alive, yet again, in Cata. Rag with legs...lol DW was downed on H in two weeks (would have been the 1st but that silly lockout) Heck, you can solo 5man HEROICS in WoW. So many memories, but nothing to hard about it. Video proof of WoW not being hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I agree pretty much with Dreosk's post on the first page. TOR is too shallow. It takes some bits from WoW, including some bad bits (severely limited crafting system). It ignores some features from other MMO's that COULD help to flesh this game out more. And whilst some will try to scream "its new! give it time!" we have absolutely NO guarantee that much will change in the future. All we know is that we're getting flashpoints, warzones and operations, with guild banks and customisable UI. And whilst just throwing more dungeons and pvp warzones into the mix has worked for WoW, that doesn't mean it will automatically work for any other MMO. The "mushroom method" of communication seldom works when you're trying to keep people paying a sub. The past history of MMO's over the last 5 or so years so be a pretty good indicator that WoW is the exception, not the rule. I don't care what anyone says on this matter, personally speaking, I think the community could benefit from Bioware issuing a "roadmap" on what they are aiming to implement and an approximate date as to when. Edited February 12, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizcuits Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I've been playing MMO's since EverQuest. What I see in the majority of complaints is people who don't play MMO's for their traditional play style. They were brought into this fold with games like WOW (with the current version, not the first original release format) and want that same casual easy play style where they can sit in a city, que for dungeons or battlegrounds and basically play a third person shooter. It seems many people can't entertain themselves... I hear comments about (there is nothing to do but sit in the fleet)... Really? How about you set your LFG status, then go world PVPing and ganking in a contested zone? Maybe farm for credits? Explore for data croms? Help your guild mates level? Simply explore and unlock the entire galaxy? Focus on the world boss fights? Entertain yourself, while you wait for new content... We have done it in every MMO since this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I've been playing MMO's since EverQuest. What I see in the majority of complaints is people who don't play MMO's for their traditional play style. They were brought into this fold with games like WOW (with the current version, not the first original release format) and want that same casual easy play style where they can sit in a city, que for dungeons or battlegrounds and basically play a third person shooter. It seems many people can't entertain themselves... I hear comments about (there is nothing to do but sit in the fleet)... Really? How about you set your LFG status, then go world PVPing and ganking in a contested zone? Maybe farm for credits? Explore for data croms? Help your guild mates level? Simply explore and unlock the entire galaxy? Focus on the world boss fights? Entertain yourself, while you wait for new content... We have done it in every MMO since this... You know what they say about assumptions don't you? And you appear to be making many here. PVP is not viable for everyone. Farming credits is not always seen as a viable form of entertainment. Getting the datacrons takes very little time at all. Once you have them, that's it, no more. Helping guild mates relies on the fact that they NEED help. World bosses go down in minutes, so what does someone do for the rest of their playtime hmm? And as for "exploring the galaxy", don't make me laugh lol. Edited February 12, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akash Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Started online games with X-wing vs. Tie Fighter. EQ1 was my first MMO. Been playing since. I don't like the traditional leveling system. I would rather the game be a multi-faceted questline where when you complete your quest, you level up. Some parts of it would need to be done either solo or with companions who were within a certain level range. When you work through the quests you level, simple as that. That would remove the need to kill "X" number of xenomorphs. Additional improvements would be a much more detailed character creation. Really, I almost walked away when at the startup screen. I really did. In fact, after I created my first character I did walk away from the game for about a week, I was that thrilled about it. At the least you need one more body type size. Somewhere between Jude Law and Arnold Scharzenneger. Should not have been released without dual-spec capability. You should be able to perform more than one role exceptionally well if you're going to have that variety that makes grouping practical and fun. Should never have been released without a cross-server LFG tool. Sorry old-skoolers, but that's the industry standard now, and there is no going back to what you consider the good old days. It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. Space combat is horrific. I was hoping for something along the lines of XvT, with the space game being a completely partitioned game from the rest of it, with choices of ships, its own storyline, and multi-player dogfights. I really don't even do space missions anymore. It was fun for an hour or two. I checked in to see what new missions were like during the leveling process. Let's face it. The space combat is epic fail. There are some really massive individuals for NPC's that just don't have any reason to be so big. Was this the golden era of steroids? Now onto the good stuff: I love the storylines. All of em. It's added that game-within-a-game that creates immersion. I like the familiar feel of the controls and UI. The voice-overs are incredible. Awesome not having to read. The classes make good sense. Their capabilities and limitations give it a "group effort" feel. The flashpoints allow you get lost in the story of what's going on, if perhaps they are a bit on the no-brainer side. The size of the worlds and the architecture is pretty epic, and pretty wonderful. I mean the game feels so massive and each world has its own feel and culture. This is hands-down the best I've seen from that regard. I sometimes find myself seeking an elevated vantage point just to take it all in. The speeders are rockin. I can't say enough good about zipping around on my speeder. Being able to keep a certain look once you find a piece of gear that you like and just mod it up to keep it competitive is pure win. I'll not speak of some of the designs on endgame gear,however. Ugh. No player housing (yay). I know some folks really like that sort of thing, but to me its a waste of development resources. I got a ship. That's my house. I have to save the empire, so I don't have time for a mortgage on a planet I'll see once a year. Now if you had customizable ships...... The legacy system. I like it. I like sharing a last name across my characters, I do wish I had the option to "friend" a legacy. Would make it easier for me and my buds. My hope for the future is for them to at least add a dual-spec, switch on the fly (when not in combat) option, and for them to completely revamp the space game to something along the lines of X-wing vs Tie-fighter. That, and customizable gear graphics. All in all, there are some really good aspects of the game. That and the lore, it's enough to keep me coming back. The game is as good at release as any I've seen, even as good as Rift, which was a darned smooth release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I've been playing MMO's since EverQuest. What I see in the majority of complaints is people who don't play MMO's for their traditional play style... Which is funny because they say the same thing about you because this game has so little of those traditional games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Which is funny because they say the same thing about you because this game has so little of those traditional games... Agreed. So much is missing. I mean....it doesn't even have a /random or /roll function. Seriously Bioware, what the hell were you thinking when you thought about having a Master Looter system? Did you presume that people would prefer to play "Guess my number?" And that's just a simplistic funciton that has existed in MMO's for the last 10 years. Never mind the more "sophisticated" things like day/night cycles and a crafting system that is actually viable as a rich form for crafters to get into. TOR is a superfiscial representation of what it could be. Edited February 12, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powergirl Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 What do I think ? I still think this game is great , been here since early access . I would go on but you wouldn't like what it is I'm thinking . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proto Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I have played quite a few MMO's over the years and I just wanted to throw my opinion out there and discuss any agreements or disagreements about swtor. Not being one for story in a mmo (click, click, just give me the quest already), I will have to say that the class quests in this game has me hooked! As an alt-aholic this gives me giddy waves of joy!! Once I hit lvl cap and can't find anything to do, well start an alt and watch his story unfold... I like it. This game has the best (imo) story mode of any mmo (and a few single player games) that I have played. I have noticed a trend in MMO's lately that didn't start with this game, but is certainly prevalent. Solo-ability to cap and as quick as possible. At the rate i'm going I will probably hit my cap before I get charged for my first month. This is a double edged sword for me. Sure I like that I don't HAVE to group to level up, and with this type of system the grind is almost eleminated. But for a subscription based service, I don't know if I will spend the wow like amount of time at the endgame, grinding out the same raids, pvp, or dailies for new gear and such. One of my favorite mmo's is EQ2 (and please this is an opinion, so lets not make this a discussion on how much SOE sucks), and, to me, the journey is as fun as the endgame. Subscribing to that game wasn't a bother to me, because I felt like I was getting the most time out of my money. It would take months for even some hardcore players to get to cap (I am talking the early days, takes a lot less time now). I like the crafting system. I have played everything from active crafting (eq2) where you actually have to pay attention to what your doing, and find creative ways not to fall asleep at the keyboard, passive crafting (aion was good for this) where you just load up on mats and let your character craft while you do the laundry. There are more games I have played, but those seem like the two extreams (and dont even talk to me about vanguard lol). This system seems to have the nice balance of getting stuff done crafting wise, while your character can still do stuff on his own... To me that strikes a good balance. Thats all I have now, but I am still just a few days in the game, what else do the Vets think? If you disagree thats fine, but keep the flames at a minimum. These are just some opinions I have developed so far. I think all you have to do, as a vet, is read this article posted today: http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/swtors-300-million-virtual-bridge-to-nowhere/#b5414 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The speeders are rockin. I can't say enough good about zipping around on my speeder. your speeder is fast? mine doesn't seem to go any faster than my horse in wow. so we play in a world where spaceships go from one end of the galaxy to the other in seconds, but my "speeder" does 27 mph. makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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