MMO Vets, What do you think?

[Psychocath]

To all the people complaining that 'casuals' killed MMOs everywhere: The companies paying top dollar to churn out these games want to at least break even at the end of the day and the best way they're going to achieve that is to appeal to the widest audience they possibly can. And a vast majority of modern gamers are, indeed, of the casual variety.

 

The ultra-elitist who insist that developers cater to their every desire and go nuclear at the drop of a nerf are NOT the core demographic and never will be. Furthermore - I'm willing to bet that the raging empty-cans among you were all casual yourselves when your gateway MMO of choice was still in it's vanilla state, therefore it is hypocritical of you to rag on those who are either just starting out or probably just want to get online after work and not get shat all over in chat because their gear isn't good enough to join in on a flashpoint. And if that happens enough, it becomes noticeable in the subscription statistics. Funny how you kill the very thing you claim to protect.

 

 

Now that I've gotten that thought out of the way:

I've personally been playing video games since before I could even walk - My parents were avid 8-bit gamers and dropped wonderful titles like Legend of Zelda and Ghost 'N Goblins into my grubby little toddler hands. When I IRL-levelled up a bit and the family actually got ahold of a computer, Ultima Online was like crack to me for a good couple of years and I moved on from there. Owned every major console of the last 20 years, played most MMOs and dabbled in thousands of PC titles. Through all that I've rarely played anything I could call complete and utter crap.

 

SWTOR certainly doesn't fall under that category either.

It's not as polished as it could be, but then hardly any vanilla MMOs ever are within their first 6 months of going live. Give it another 6-12 months and we should hopefully see some vast improvements and maybe even an expansion. 1.2 is already looking to be a promising patch to get the ball rolling in my honest opinion.

 

Oh, and if you feel that my opening micro-rant offended you - Cry me a river.

[Captain_Zone]

LOL @ those complaining about having no housing.... You get your "house" at level 16 or so! It's called your SHIP! It has your bedroom, medical facility, armory, crew quarters, etc. Everything BUT a bathroom, since in Star Wars, waste just magically vanishes.

[akdonkey]

I think SOE killed Galaxies Prematurely....

[dannofdawn]

LOL @ those complaining about having no housing.... You get your "house" at level 16 or so! It's called your SHIP! It has your bedroom, medical facility, armory, crew quarters, etc. Everything BUT a bathroom, since in Star Wars, waste just magically vanishes.

 

Except you can't interact with any of those things except your cargo...

Edited April 5, 2012 by dannofdawn

[Captain_Zone]

Except you can't interact with any of those things except your cargo...

 

You can jump up on your bunk in the captain's cabin and hit the /sit emote. If you want to interact with your appliances, go play Sims. lol

[krinaman]

I think MMOs need to be less fun, this is serious business not fun. What do you think this is a game or something?

 

We also need to make the game more like the MMOs from 20 years ago. You know where it took a group a 24 level 50's just to kill a single level 1 mob. Back then we didn't have these entitilement issues like today. When that level 1 mob started dropping trash loot 1 time out of 50 instead of 100 we threw every other one away: we EARN our trash loot. Oh yeah, we need meters, addons, macros, quick travel, and 1000 key programmed mice because we are entitled to that. And no quick travel, we walked to and from our level 1 mobs, in the snow, up hill, both ways.

 

Furthermore, this solo stuff has to go away. MMO means group what do you think the G in MMO stands for? I'll tell you what it means. It means that a massive number of people share a game world to show off the awesome loot we earned by breaking up into tiny groups and going our own isolated virtual world.

 

Us real players earn our gear the real way; We join a guild run by the leader and his inner circle of friends the officers. Yes, those guys that put so much into the guild that they earn 10 times the DKP as any one else. Plus, they do it so far behind the scenes it's like they never even log on. Earning all this DKP is so exhausting that we give them a pass when they show up an hour late for a raid instead of docking them 1000 dkp per each minute late like the regular guildies.

 

But hey, these guys earn it. They know the game better than anyone. Heck, during silent DKP bids it's like they know what everybody else bids. That's some real insight there. Plus you should see them light up the DPS meter. I can only hope that someday I could match them. I mean sure they got full gear sets and I'm still wearing gear from 2 raids ago. And sure I got to CC every fight while the officer doesn't, and offheal, and interupt, and kite adds. But hey, he earned the right to just stand their and DPS because he tops the charts every fight.

 

Now let's talk about difficultly. MMO are supposed to be tough and by tough I mean really tough. So tough that after my 58 addons it's still tough. I'm talking wiping 500 times to learn all the dance steps to the first trash pull. So tough that those pansy's who play for fun give up.

 

That's right, if you want to earn gear in a MMO you need to be miserable. But it's worth it in the end. When you link that orange piece of gear 500 times per day in general chat it makes it all worth while. That's right, 1 stat point better than that noob purple gear. Eat it. All those people putting you on ignore are just jealous.

 

So what were we talking about again?

 

Oh right, what do I think.

 

Well, I think games should be fun and entertaining for everyone playing it. If you aren't having fun then I suggest stop playing it.

 

P.S. I can't wait to see how many think that was serious...........

Edited April 5, 2012 by krinaman

[Psychocath]

*textwall which is too big to actually quote properly*

 

+1 internet for you.

[GalacticKegger]

I think MMOs need to be less fun, this is serious business not fun. What do you think this is a game or something?

 

We also need to make the game more like the MMOs from 20 years ago. You know where it took a group a 24 level 50's just to kill a single level 1 mob. Back then we didn't have these entitilement issues like today. When that level 1 mob started dropping trash loot 1 time out of 50 instead of 100 we threw every other one away: we EARN our trash loot. Oh yeah, we need meters, addons, macros, quick travel, and 1000 key programmed mice because we are entitled to that. And no quick travel, we walked to and from our level 1 mobs, in the snow, up hill, both ways.

 

Furthermore, this solo stuff has to go away. MMO means group what do you think the G in MMO stands for? I'll tell you what it means. It means that a massive number of people share a game world to show off the awesome loot we earned by breaking up into tiny groups and going our own isolated virtual world.

 

Us real players earn our gear the real way; We join a guild run by the leader and his inner circle of friends the officers. Yes, those guys that put so much into the guild that they earn 10 times the DKP as any one else. Plus, they do it so far behind the scenes it's like they never even log on. Earning all this DKP is so exhausting that we give them a pass when they show up an hour late for a raid instead of docking them 1000 dkp per each minute late like the regular guildies.

 

But hey, these guys earn it. They know the game better than anyone. Heck, during silent DKP bids it's like they know what everybody else bids. That's some real insight there. Plus you should see them light up the DPS meter. I can only hope that someday I could match them. I mean sure they got full gear sets and I'm still wearing gear from 2 raids ago. And sure I got to CC every fight while the officer doesn't, and offheal, and interupt, and kite adds. But hey, he earned the right to just stand their and DPS because he tops the charts every fight.

 

Now let's talk about difficultly. MMO are supposed to be tough and by tough I mean really tough. So tough that after my 58 addons it's still tough. I'm talking wiping 500 times to learn all the dance steps to the first trash pull. So tough that those pansy's who play for fun give up.

 

That's right, if you want to earn gear in a MMO you need to be miserable. But it's worth it in the end. When you link that orange piece of gear 500 times per day in general chat it makes it all worth while. That's right, 1 stat point better than that noob purple gear. Eat it. All those people putting you on ignore are just jealous.

 

So what were we talking about again?

 

Oh right, what do I think.

 

Well, I think games should be fun and entertaining for everyone playing it. If you aren't having fun then I suggest stop playing it.

 

P.S. I can't wait to see how many think that was serious...........

LMAO! I think the most amazing part of this game are the no-life griefers. How they can put camping a forum so high on their RL priority list is truly remarkable. Must wake up in the morning, stare into a mirror and ask themselves "Go on a date, hang with friends or pwn a forum? Hmmm ... tough call, but - no date, no friends, and rejections are easier to hide from online... Let's head to swtor.com and see how many people we can piss off!" Edited April 5, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Captain_Zone]

LMAO! I think the most amazing part of this game are the no-life griefers. How they can put camping a forum so high on their RL priority list is truly remarkable. Must wake up in the morning, stare into a mirror and ask themselves "Go on a date, hang with friends or pwn a forum? Hmmm ... tough call, but - no date, no friends, and rejections are easier to hide from online... Let's head to swtor.com and see how many people we can piss off!"

 

^Someone who took it seriously.

 

 

Personally, I liked it! +1 for creative Bitter Vet humor.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[ironmb]

1. Focus Frame is a failure, doesn't allow ctrl, shift, alt as modifiers.

2. PVP is same repetitive all day everyday.

3. Unbalanced servers favor a faction more in every aspect.

4. Biased animations for imperials having an advantage on numerous spells.

5. Ilum is dead, and a bad idea.

6. Game engine can't withstand more than 15v15 fight, before you get terrible frame rates.

7. The best computers cant process this terrible engine.

8. All pvp builds resort to stacking up one ability.

9. They listen to casuals too much, nerfing classes into the ground.

10. Mounts are a joke, 110% speed is not enough.

11. The god awful art designers for tier gear need to be fired, a 3 yr old can do something better.

12. Operations are a joke, too easy.

13. Operations are like fighting bugs, not the actual script. Player Vs Bug/scripts = bad

14. No server transfers (dead servers are nothing but dust clouds)

15. No dual spec, spending 100k on a respec is complete failure.

16. Tanks outdps'ing full dedicated dps's

17. Healers un-killable with guard.

18. Questing is fun, but spacebaring through content is stupid, there needs to be way to turn cut scenes completely off.

19. Space ports, nobody wants to have to run through a spaceport, after you fly to a planet.

20. They give away PVP gear to easily to casuals who cry "omg you dont out gear me no more".

21. PVP groups in regular warzones are only allowed 4 players, so a 4 man premade must carry 4 terrible geared players.

22. Medal system is a joke, this should have never been implemented EVER.

23. No rewards for winning or losing, you win you get reward, you lose; you get same reward.

24. PVP weapons can not be modded.

25. Resolve bar is terrible, roots should effect resolve bar, no matter hwo you see it. Being rooted in one place for over 15+ seconds is never EVER balanced.

26. This game is about who can stun who better, there is no skill cap to PVP. Just who has the better stun at the end of the day.

27. Not being able to hit "enter" to select your character on selection screen.

28. No end game content for PVE, oh did i mention PVE has bugs?

 

This list can go on for days.. canceled my sub, and awaiting d3.

[ConradLionhart]

As a veteran who has played WoW from 2005-2011, I think SW:TOR has potential.

 

There are some problems and some things could be done better, but I am willing to help it grow into a worthy competition in the MMO market.

[GalacticKegger]

^Someone who took it seriously.

 

Personally, I liked it! +1 for creative Bitter Vet humor.

Oh heck no - I thought it was hilarious! We need more like it. Edited April 5, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Captain_Zone]

Oh heck no - I thought it was hilarious! We need more like it.

 

Ah, gotcha. The way you worded it had me thinking otherwise. lol

[ConradLionhart]

I think MMOs need to be less fun, this is serious business not fun. What do you think this is a game or something?

.

.

.

.

.

Well, I think games should be fun and entertaining for everyone playing it. If you aren't having fun then I suggest stop playing it.

 

P.S. I can't wait to see how many think that was serious...........

 

Why can't easy and hard content co-exist?

 

Operations in 1.2 will have story mode, the easy content for casuals who just want to play for fun.

They will also have hard modes for the competitive guilds who want to chase server-firsts.

 

I also think MMOs should be all about exploration and story. The problem I have is that some players think they are entitled to have the best gear without putting the effort into it. If you all you want is fun, why do you also want the very best gear?

[Elzebet]

I would love this game if the end-game were more epic than the quests to level up.

The whole grind for gear...group instances stuff is so boring, been done too many times in too many games. Why can't they break out with a completely different type of end-game for a MMO?

[Captain_Zone]

Why can't easy and hard content co-exist?

 

Operations in 1.2 will have story mode, the easy content for casuals who just want to play for fun.

They will also have hard modes for the competitive guilds who want to chase server-firsts.

 

I also think MMOs should be all about exploration and story. The problem I have is that some players think they are entitled to have the best gear without putting the effort into it. If you all you want is fun, why do you also want the very best gear?

 

Please don't tell me you took that seriously....

 

Personally, I have my favorite gear already on most of my toons.

 

I do not do PvP here except for twice and won both open world fights. Once was forced upon me by a Reppy player exploiting the old AoE PvP Flag bug. The other was because my Sith Assassin is BOSS and there was a Jedi Shadow on the Empire side of the Nar Shaddaa bonus series.

 

Now, my Agent hasn't changed in appearance since level 32, and he's level 46 now. Also, my Assassin hasn't changed his look since Dromund Kaas, thanks to the Saber Marshal's Robe looking so bad***. From what I've seen of PvP gear, it looks like someone took a dump that threw up on itself. Ugliest junk in the game, imo.

[ConradLionhart]

I would love this game if the end-game were more epic than the quests to level up.

The whole grind for gear...group instances stuff is so boring, been done too many times in too many games. Why can't they break out with a completely different type of end-game for a MMO?

 

A fan at the guild summit asked for an awesome operation where, 2 people will fight a sith lord, 2 people will be on their spaceships in space combat, and the rest will be on an undercover mission.

 

The devs were passionate about something like that.

[dashspeed]

My thoughts are in the link in my sig (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=216855). To that post, add this:

 

- No day/night cycle

Most, if not all MMOs have day/night cycles that mimic the server time. This means that most players would always see the same day/night time, considering the time of day they play. It's really a minor detail.

- No swimming

Because we all love and want more quests that require you to swim, right?

- No housing

The vast majority don't have housing. Besides, houses are useless when you really think about it, unless you play UO. And you have a ship, so yeah.

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc...

This is an MMO, not a Hoyle Casino waiting room

- Dumbed down character creation

lol what? SWTOR gives MUCH more customization. I'm sorry that you think removing "cheekbone angle curvature height"-type details that nobody really notices is a problem.

- No post-creation character customization

You mean haircuts, right? Not a big deal either, easily added later on. I'm sensing you're running out of ideas.

- No appearance tab/outfit system

Social items.

- No high res textures

The medium textures are already quite high quality in comparison with other MMOs.

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...)

You can sit on chairs. You can open doors. I don't see any problem with what you're saying. Walls? Right, how can you interact with a wall? lol.

- Simple combat with static enemies

Enemies move around. Simple combat? Nope, everything is manual and proc-based later on. Are you trolling?

- Unconvincing and stiff animations

lolwut. This is pretty ridiculous. Sure, a whirling kick with my lightsaber isn't very CONVINCING because none of that is possible and it's a FANTASY GAME.

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around

Go to a more populated server.

- No collision detection

Trust me, this is a GOOD thing.

- No stats on resources

What does that even mean?

- No crafting customization

Orange items, anyone?

- Restriction in choice of starship

Now you're just being ridiculous. You whine about no houses, and now you whine about not being able to choose your starship, which is closely related to your storyline. lol.

- No ship decoration

I'm sorry if this isn't Star Wars: Martha Stewart Edition.

- Dumbed down space combat

Space combat is a minigame.

- No multiplayer space combat

Never was announced. Just like most of the things you complain about, this isn't something that's lacking really, it's just you complaining for the sake of complaining and trying to make this list sound excruciatingly long.

- Removal of many races

Removal? Nothing was removed. They're still there. You not being able to pick them is not a "removal".

- No faction change/neutrality

Well, duh. If you mean Neutral as in neighter Light or Dark, well, yes you can be.

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction

Try Tatooine. Or Balmorra. Hell, there's plenty of planets that have PvP in them. If you can't find people, change servers.

- Less planets than announced

Yet, more than enough.

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back

Soooo....? You're just whining because you expected every planet to be a 1-50 leveling zone? ***

- No GM events

lol. Alright, you're obviously a UO kid. I know GM events were fun, but these type of events are faaaar away right now.

- Removal of choice to kill companion

If they left it in place, you'd probably be whining that you can't "undo" it.

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times

Yes, because that makes no sense. Why would you be able to say everything to the opposing faction? Kills the little interest there is left in world PvP

- No RP tools

RP tools? *** ARE RP TOOLS. RP comes from the PLAYERS. You don't need TOOLS to RP.

- Nothing to do post-story

Every story has an ending. Besides, PvP, WZ, OPs, etc. Useless complaint again.

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet

Go to Ilum. Hate pvp? Get in operations. Hate that too? MMOs are not for you.

 

Red text answers your mostly useless complaints.

[Nuffmeister]

I think MMOs need to be less fun, this is serious business not fun. What do you think this is a game or something?

 

We also need to make the game more like the MMOs from 20 years ago. You know where it took a group a 24 level 50's just to kill a single level 1 mob. Back then we didn't have these entitilement issues like today. When that level 1 mob started dropping trash loot 1 time out of 50 instead of 100 we threw every other one away: we EARN our trash loot. Oh yeah, we need meters, addons, macros, quick travel, and 1000 key programmed mice because we are entitled to that. And no quick travel, we walked to and from our level 1 mobs, in the snow, up hill, both ways.

 

Furthermore, this solo stuff has to go away. MMO means group what do you think the G in MMO stands for? I'll tell you what it means. It means that a massive number of people share a game world to show off the awesome loot we earned by breaking up into tiny groups and going our own isolated virtual world.

 

Us real players earn our gear the real way; We join a guild run by the leader and his inner circle of friends the officers. Yes, those guys that put so much into the guild that they earn 10 times the DKP as any one else. Plus, they do it so far behind the scenes it's like they never even log on. Earning all this DKP is so exhausting that we give them a pass when they show up an hour late for a raid instead of docking them 1000 dkp per each minute late like the regular guildies.

 

But hey, these guys earn it. They know the game better than anyone. Heck, during silent DKP bids it's like they know what everybody else bids. That's some real insight there. Plus you should see them light up the DPS meter. I can only hope that someday I could match them. I mean sure they got full gear sets and I'm still wearing gear from 2 raids ago. And sure I got to CC every fight while the officer doesn't, and offheal, and interupt, and kite adds. But hey, he earned the right to just stand their and DPS because he tops the charts every fight.

 

Now let's talk about difficultly. MMO are supposed to be tough and by tough I mean really tough. So tough that after my 58 addons it's still tough. I'm talking wiping 500 times to learn all the dance steps to the first trash pull. So tough that those pansy's who play for fun give up.

 

That's right, if you want to earn gear in a MMO you need to be miserable. But it's worth it in the end. When you link that orange piece of gear 500 times per day in general chat it makes it all worth while. That's right, 1 stat point better than that noob purple gear. Eat it. All those people putting you on ignore are just jealous.

 

So what were we talking about again?

 

Oh right, what do I think.

 

Well, I think games should be fun and entertaining for everyone playing it. If you aren't having fun then I suggest stop playing it.

 

P.S. I can't wait to see how many think that was serious...........

 

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. I loved this.

 

You forgot standing with weapons drawn in the highest traffic areas (like Qeynos Harbor) for 16+ hours a day. You have to put in the time and effort to do the MMO God pose or your really just letting down your legions of fans.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Nuffmeister

[ConradLionhart]

Please don't tell me you took that seriously....

 

Personally, I have my favorite gear already on most of my toons.

 

I do not do PvP here except for twice and won both open world fights. Once was forced upon me by a Reppy player exploiting the old AoE PvP Flag bug. The other was because my Sith Assassin is BOSS and there was a Jedi Shadow on the Empire side of the Nar Shaddaa bonus series.

 

Now, my Agent hasn't changed in appearance since level 32, and he's level 46 now. Also, my Assassin hasn't changed his look since Dromund Kaas, thanks to the Saber Marshal's Robe looking so bad***. From what I've seen of PvP gear, it looks like someone took a dump that threw up on itself. Ugliest junk in the game, imo.

 

Yes that was a sarcastic post, making fun of people who want hard content and implying that they have no lives. Which of course is ironic coming from someone who also plays the same game as them.

 

I personally will never touch those nightmare ops but there should be a structure where we the numerous supporting cast will support the upper tier of gamers. But that doesn't mean I want everyone to suffer. Effort should be put back into the game if you want the very best gear, and not just handed out on a silver platter, diluting the prestige of having such gear.

 

But there is a valid reason for hard content. It shouldn't be scorned because it caters to the hardcore competitive guilds. Right now SW:TOR needs to cater to as many people as possible to increase its chance of succeeding. Yes, even those players who ask for hand outs. I don't like them, but we need everyone we can get to help SW:TOR succeed.

[NotDonnaReed]

End game in SWTOR is not even remotely easy for casual players. Most of these people don't know ANYTHING about raiding. Every concept you can imagine (CC, LoS, AoE, knockbacks, threat) has to be explained again and again. These people come into raids expecting "story mode" (Ooh, I want Karagga's purple hat!) and instead they get their butts handed to them repeatedly by big ugly monsters with enrage timers. Most of these people just want to coo over ortolans. They have no idea how to min/max their gear. I've seen healers and dps sporting gear with defense rating for God's sake.

 

And then there's the bugs. I have never in my life seen so many unusual and inconvenient bugs in a production release. Tonight I wasted three hours in a hard mode because every single time we died and tried to re-enter, it ported us to a new, uncleared version of the flashpoint. And we died A LOT because these were casual players who didn't understand basic raiding concepts.

 

I'm not asking for nerfs, because I personally enjoy a challenge. I'm just saying this game doesn't understand its target market at all.

[Hecterr]

I am a huge sw fan and I believe in bioware. They will work to continue making swtor a better mmo. But I am really disappointed in the lack of features the game launched with, the horrible loot systems in pve and pvp. No lfg systems, no rated or competive play in pvp at all. With all the money they spent on making this game they could have done a way better job.

 

There is that other successful mmo out there that if you like it or not sets the "standards" for mmo just basic features that swtor lacks and should have when launched. Like how could you not have clued in to any of this bioware? So disappointing and now your finally going to add rated warzones without cross server queuing?

 

What a fail system... Maybe that rated system will work on the few high populated servers but on the low pop servers basically it will be one sided. Well we will see whenever this 1.2 goes live how it ends up but d3 is almost here and I will be most likely playing that for awhile. Basically you have till the end of this year bioware to bring this mmo up to standards or else your whooped i believe in you and will stay subbed for the remainder of the year. But get the ball moving already and for the love of the force give us some cool looking gear!

[OsarionRDM]

What you wrote:

WoW did it because all the casuals cried foul play and unfair treatment. If they would have just told then to just suck it up and play the part of the game designed for you then it would have been just fine.[/Quote]

 

The truth:

 

WoW did it because all the casuals cried foul play and unfair treatment. If they would have just told then to just suck it up and play the part of the game designed for you then WoW would have ended up like every other MMO. Read: There are a bagillion more casual gamers out there than hardcore. WoW realized this, and got filthy-stinking-rich off of it. Now take these 10-12 million people who've played WoW, and introduce them into the gene-pool of MMOs whenever the "next big thing" comes along and behold what happens! Read: These forums.

Edited April 5, 2012 by OsarionRDM

[Rodeodanza]

It's funny that so many people blame WoW for the game being easy. I don't recall Blizzard developing this game. Do people blame hard games on Dark Souls too? Give me a break.

 

Also, I don't really buy the argument that WoW is easy. Sure, it has easy modes but heroic raiding can be challenging, far more challenging than nightmare raiding in this game. I'd even argue that heroic dungeons in WoW are harder than heroic Flashpoints in this game.

 

As an older MMO vet, my opinion is that this game launched at the very least 6 months before it was ready which is going to be its eventual downfall. So many people that I know have left and will not return. I'll consider returning when it goes F2P and has a lot more features/stuff to do. No way I'll pay a sub for a game I already "beat", which is strangely possible in this game considering the model of story.

[TwwIX]

The game is great in terms of aesthetics, storyline and characters. It's severely lacking in the MMO department though. It's not a very social game nor does it really encourage grouping atm. Also, the gameplay, as of now, feels very static and cookie cutterish. BioWare needs to shift their focus onto PvE and make the co-op experience more enjoyable. I would have preferred a more action oriented combat system tbh. The co-op in Mass Effect 3, even though it's a glorified horde mode, is very fun and addictive thanks to the fun, tactical combat and the challenging AI.