Why the Vigilance Spec is awesome and how to make it work for you!

[Orabus]

Because when you're attacking a Mercenary, or a tank in general and an Overhead Slash crits for like 1.3k with 80% crit damage it's disappointing.

 

Things in light armor that isn't a tank, yeah you can destroy them easily. 2 of our main attacks are melee attacks Sunder and Overhead Slash which puts as at a disadvantage at times because it can get defended against, parry, or shield absorb and etc.

 

This is why our top tier talent needs to be considerably better. The initial scaling on Plasma Brand is weak, the DoT is also too long and the talent cools down before the DoT is exhausted, which means you'll be missing 1/4th of the damage assuming you use it again after cool down.

 

I can do a lot of damage, but I feel like I have to work my *** off and literally do everything perfect while other DPS classes have more damaging attacks, more utility, and have a lot more room for error.

 

+1 lol with my pure defense spec (level 36) im practically throwing out the same numbers as the guy whose arguing the pure vig build

[stilari]

+1 lol with my pure defense spec (level 36) im practically throwing out the same numbers as the guy whose arguing the pure vig build

I bet that's the truth.

[Marqhill]

But with regard to the OP, not a real informative "guide". It's more a description of abilities rather than anything. Perhaps you should add strategies, alternate specs, priority list on abilities, recommended crew skills, recommended adrenals/buffs, match-ups to look for, match-up strategies, specific Warzone goals/tasks, favored companions in open world PVP, favored partners in PVP, etc.

 

You're correct. I wanted to do more but I got side tracked because when I'm at work I don't get enough time to say what I need to say and when I'm at home I'm PvP'ing so that I can get my battle master gear.

 

But if you've got some patience with my schedule and as long as this thread retains peoples interest I will find the time to get backto you on the subject of all of those topics that you just mentioned.

[Marqhill]

+1 lol with my pure defense spec (level 36) im practically throwing out the same numbers as the guy whose arguing the pure vig build

 

Keeping in mind that with your level 36 character you're not balancing that against the fact that I'm also hitting people who are wearing level 50 pvp gear. It makes a big difference. If I wanted to brag about how hard I can hit ungeared 50's then I'd talk about the fact that I can hit a Fresh 50 for 2000 points of damage with a Saber Throw when I pop a relic or how my dispatch hits ungeared 50's for 4400 damage when I critically hit. I can Overhead Slash for 3000 damage with my relic active and Blade Storm for 2800. If I'm banging away at Fresh 50's then it's not at all uncommon for me to kill them in 3 - 4 hits and not even finish my entire rotation. But that's not at all useful to talk about. Big numbers are just big numbers, but they don't mean anything until you put them in perspective.

[Orabus]

Keeping in mind that with your level 36 character you're not balancing that against the fact that I'm also hitting people who are wearing level 50 pvp gear. It makes a big difference. If I wanted to brag about how hard I can hit ungeared 50's then I'd talk about the fact that I can hit a Fresh 50 for 2000 points of damage with a Saber Throw when I pop a relic or how my dispatch hits ungeared 50's for 4400 damage when I critically hit. I can Overhead Slash for 3000 damage with my relic active and Blade Storm for 2800. If I'm banging away at Fresh 50's then it's not at all uncommon for me to kill them in 3 - 4 hits and not even finish my entire rotation. But that's not at all useful to talk about. Big numbers are just big numbers, but they don't mean anything until you put them in perspective.

 

granted yes you have a point I'm not beating on geared 50's. But would it be fair to safely assume it would be like beating on geared 50's in light armor? I don't really see why not....

[bamsmacked]

I came across ignorant because you guys have been clearly trying to shove it down my throat since passing my own opinion that I'm wrong so tbh can you blame me for getting a little short tongued when all you keep saying is the same mindless drivel of l2p and you bad hrm?

 

When you come across rude, you get rudeness back.

 

I'm saying that Shien isn't all it's cracked up to be and I notice that I get more mileage out of Soresu Vigil/Def Hybrid than I do out of pure Shien because of the utility.

 

If you can make Shien work, good for you but it doesn't stop it being sub-optimal for PvP when compared to the hybrid spec because you are giving up a fair bit of utility for it.

 

Shien is without a doubt, the top DPS build in a PVE environment for a Guardian, no debate there, it just doesn't have enough going for it to warrant dropping warding call and Soresu in PvP however.

 

Remember you have no burst, no warding call and switching to Soresu to tank/guard costs you all your focus, the minute you bump into a team with equal/higher geared healers you will realise what I'm trying to say and that full Vigil isn't all that it's cracked up to be in PvP.

 

Nobody is trying to shove anything down you're throat it's quite the opposite actually. You omit the good things about Shien and say it isn't worth it because of Single Saber Mastery and then go on yappin about how you get no utility and survivability in Shien which is also FALSE. If Single Saber Mastery gave you 6% MORE DAMAGE it would be an overpowered first tier talent, plus it would drastically change the scaling of Vigilance damage builds across the board, in truth 6% more damage is a little overpowered for a tier 1 talent.

 

You get Saber Ward, and Enure (it needs work I know, but it helps a lot still) plus if you're so concerned about survivability and more utility you can take Protector and Commanding Awe. With those you get 4% more endurance, 4% damage reduction, Guardian Leap perk applies to you for a 20% damage reduction, and Commanding Awe at a 45 second cool down for CC and interrupts. Plus we get the best AoE root in the game, which is FREE with Soldifying Force. So as you can see we have plenty of utility, plenty of talents to help us survive, and we do sustained damage.

 

If you go a Vigil/Def hybrid you give up A LOT MORE DAMAGE, a lot more focus gain, and focus efficiency. If you're SO concerned about surviving just GO TANKING spec and stop telling others SHIEN SUXXOR VIGI SUX YOU CANNOT SURVIVE YOU GOT NO UTILITY BLA BLA BLA BLA.

 

That pretty much is all that you're doing. You don't talk about the other good talents in the Vigilance tree, you don't talk about the advantages of having Shien, you're saving 1 focus per attack which means Blade Storm is usually free or cost 3 focus, Overhead Slash costs 3 focus, Force Sweep is FREE with Effluence and Shien gives you 6% more damage on all attacks which as someone pointed out earlier combined that with SSM you get a hell of a Dispatch and Overhead Slash which is your hardest hitting attack with the exception of Master Strike.

 

Everyone has their own opinion and I respect peoples opinions but you really are just coming off as ignorant on this one. Commanding Awe, Guardian Leap, Freezing Force, Saber Ward, and Enure all are available to the Vigil Guardian and you are making a case about survivability and utility? And how much more does your Hybrid build have over that besides Warding Call?

 

You simply don't understand the role of the Vigilance Guardian I suppose, and as far as damage goes in PvP I regularly break 250k+ in damage, and I regularly get 8 or more medals, from damage, objectives, and protection from my taunts.

 

This is a screeny from one of my not so good warzones too. Usually I do less damage then that and get more protection score, but here you go.

 

EDIT - I really am curious about seeing this all mighty, utility/surviving/decent damaging build of yours.

 

http://oi44.tinypic.com/25soppi.jpg

Edited February 15, 2012 by bamsmacked

[VragonBral]

The pressure/presence offered by the Vigilance spec is unparelled. When you get on a roll and you're stomping through crowds of people being a nuisance, you make an impact. Sure, the damage numbers will not be massive, but you can get substantial scores damage wise (I'll top the WZ from time to time). What you're looking to do is cause a ruckus, stick to squishies and disrupt people. Get focused, you can take quite a bit of abuse especially with backup. Your presence (an intangible concept, I know) is really unmatched in battle. People remark that melee fighters in this game get the short-end of the stick, but have you ever played a team of all ranged when you have a good mix of melee with you? It's often a slaughter if you can harass them enough...

 

You know. The more I read about this whole Focus vs Vigilance debate it reminds me of something I learned in Kendo and Iaido.

 

A warrior who takes raw strength over knowledge may fell many opponents, but will fall before one who let's that strength become his weakness.

 

 

I've been researching more and more. And it seem's that Focus is so very centralized around the usage of one skill. Making that one skill shine very heavily above everything else. This can be a boon and a bane. You have a hard hitting raw damage ability that will definitely kill if it hits. Or severely wound a target. But you must set this ability up. But the fear of a hard hit has a psychological effect on the person. Even if its a game, it causes a nervous reaction when you know it will hurt. (Even if its rather minute)

 

While the Vigilance tree is not mete'ing out as heavy one-shot strikes. It is dotted over a period of time. Never letting up on a target once it begins. It won't burst down a target extremely fast, but it will make the fight very intense. This apply's constant mental pressure on someone.

 

Relatively I have more faith in a Vigilance build. As I think it builds momentum much more easily then the Staccato of the Focus branch.

 

Overall, I may be wrong. I just feel this way about it.

 

Try not to get so angry guys, its just everyone has their own opinion about what's best.

[Ethias]

granted yes you have a point I'm not beating on geared 50's. But would it be fair to safely assume it would be like beating on geared 50's in light armor? I don't really see why not....

 

the 1.3k he's talking about wasn't on someone in light armor.

 

I routinely get 3-4k crits on people with low expertise and light armor and I only have a champion saber... 4k being dispatch, but I've gotten an overhead that high with gather strength procced, and 3ks are not terribly uncommon vs low armor targets.

 

As to the rest of this thread, vig/def has a place in pvp, pure vig has a place in PvP. Shien is a fine stance, Soresu is a fine stance, both have their uses and most builds that take Shien also will use Soresu some times.

 

There is utility in the Vig build that Vig/def can't pick up, and there's certainly survivability that can lead to utility in the vig/def build that Vig can't pick up.

 

The builds have very different purposes in pvp. Play whichever you like more.

[RDeanOU]

I came across ignorant because you guys have been clearly trying to shove it down my throat since passing my own opinion that I'm wrong so tbh can you blame me for getting a little short tongued when all you keep saying is the same mindless drivel of l2p and you bad hrm?

 

First of all, I have never said "l2p" or "you bad hrm?"

 

Secondly, you are being completely dishonest about what you have said and the way you have said it. Throughout this thread you have claimed things like this:

 

I'll write it off because I've tried it (I also have the full Vindicator Champ set), Shien stance is terrible compared to Soresu and not worth taking over warding call (which the survivability heavily outweighs the poor damage increase from going Shien).

 

That is from the first page of this thread. You don't qualify your statements by saying, "With my playstyle Soresu is better." You categorically state that Soresu is clearly and obviously superior and Shien is terrible. YOU are the one trying to shove your notions and opinions down everyone else's throat.

 

Though I think VertisReaper could have been more polite, all he is really saying is that Vigilance is a completely viable option for pvp if it is played correctly. He isn't saying that playing as focus or defense in Soresu form is terrible. He is saying that just because you can't make A Shien based Vigilance spec work that doesn't mean it isn't good/viable. Again, he wasn't nice about it, but all he was saying is that Zarthorn's way isn't the only good way.

 

The only person forcing their playstyle down everyone else's throat is you.

 

I'm saying that Shien isn't all it's cracked up to be and I notice that I get more mileage out of Soresu Vigil/Def Hybrid than I do out of pure Shien because of the utility.

 

If you can make Shien work, good for you but it doesn't stop it being sub-optimal for PvP when compared to the hybrid spec because you are giving up a fair bit of utility for it.

 

Again this is a dishonest presentation of what you have said in this thread. You have repeatedly dismissed people that say it works great for them. You haven't simply told them they were giving up utility. You have characterized them as completely stupid and selfishly putting their desire to get big numbers over the team's success. Here is an example from page 2 of this thread.

 

 

You keep telling yourself it's a good build, the rest of us that take the time to fully explore things will keep our own opinions on how poor Shien stance is and how useless single saber mastery is as a talent.

 

I'll keep plugging away, earning high amounts of medals and valor because I haven't forfeited Guard for some poor damage tradeoff thus making me generally more useful to my team in a...team game, you keep dreaming of getting the 5k destroyer medal and the 300k damage medal which will constantly slip from your grasp the minute you realise the whole enemy team has more than 6% expertise.

 

That doesn't sound like you saying "Good for you if Shien works for you." That sounds like you claiming that anyone with a conclusion different than yours is too stupid or lazy to have explored their options or they are selfishly trying to put up big numbers instead of help the team.

 

Stop trying to tell everyone playing the class that if they aren't pvping the way you do they are selfish or stupid. THAT is why you sound ignorant in this thread. It isn't because we aren't listening to you. It's because the things you are saying sound bossy, arrogant, and closed-minded.

 

If you want to contribute your experience then there is an appropriate way to do that. You tell people that in your experience it hasn't worked as well and why. You don't have to treat anyone who says they have found a way to make it work like they are attacking you.

[Orabus]

the 1.3k he's talking about wasn't on someone in light armor.

 

I routinely get 3-4k crits on people with low expertise and light armor and I only have a champion saber... 4k being dispatch, but I've gotten an overhead that high with gather strength procced, and 3ks are not terribly uncommon vs low armor targets.

 

As to the rest of this thread, vig/def has a place in pvp, pure vig has a place in PvP. Shien is a fine stance, Soresu is a fine stance, both have their uses and most builds that take Shien also will use Soresu some times.

 

There is utility in the Vig build that Vig/def can't pick up, and there's certainly survivability that can lead to utility in the vig/def build that Vig can't pick up.

 

The builds have very different purposes in pvp. Play whichever you like more.

 

I can agree with that. Very well good sir.

[Marqhill]

Yeah, what Ethias is saying there is 100% accurate. Perhaps I should have specified my targets when I was giving examples of my damage out put mixed in with my rotation. Now I DO like to also target light armored enemies. I do a great deal of damage to them and dispatch them HARD. It's a good spec for picking off DPS sorcs, shadows, marauders and DPS mercenaries.

 

Also, I've started using Master Strike in PvP. There's really no reason not to use it in Shien Form. The extra 12% damage boost you get in Shien means you do several hundred points more damage than you would in another stance. You will usually only get the first 2 hits but if you can get the third hit then your opponent is going to take a huge amount of damage. I had originally thought not to use it because of how easy it is to avoid. You'd be SHOCKED by how many people will just stand there and let you do it.

 

I don't know, I only ever let someone hit me with Master Strike (Ravage for Imperials) if I'm completely stun locked. But apparently not everyone on our server is as bright.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Marqhill

[Leshric]

What do you guys think of this spec?

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500cMG0zZIMRRMhddMZh.1

 

11/27/3 Vig/Def Hybrid, went just high enough in def to get warding call so I can tank in a pinch if needed, and put 3 into insight for the almost guaranteed crit on blade storm.

 

I plan to PVP in Soresu and PVE in Shien. I was near full vig, but I found that I didn't use plasma brand as much as I thought I would and I'm not good about using master strike (not because it's not good, i just don't tend to think of it when running around)

[Ceasaigh]

Focus bombers won't be getting 5k after the surge nerf, thus your point is moot, now read above look at the screen and note the fact you dodged the fact I mentioned you are geared vs fresh 50's which is the only difference.

 

Um wrong

 

 

 

I'm a so called "Focus Bomber" and I get 5K hits routinely post surge nerf.

 

 

Both guardian DPS trees are viable in PvP. IMO focus is better with higher expertise because of the added damage mitigation. Vig has good survivability and is great for farming medals.

 

Its about play style I can jump into a pile of Imps and if any of them have low health there going to die. I've killed 4 with one sweep.

 

Single target's with all my cool downs don't have a chance doesn't matter the class. I have full Champ and BM gear so I hit like a truck.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Ceasaigh

[Drakks]

To people thinking Focus is somehow both immune to upgrades and was hurt my the surge nerf -- I hit a 6102 crit last night (2/16).

 

The biggest difference between the two specs is not overall damage, it's burst vs consistant pressure. They both have their place -- beyond that, I tend to average two more medals per match as focus than I do Vig (2.5k heal, and 5k annihlator) -- PLUS, Vig needs much better gear to do what Focus does early on.. and Vig will always struggle againt a good Sorc healer far more than Focus does where focus can struggle with anyone moving + slight server lag because the position you see your opponent in is not absolute and you'll sweep and hit nadda.

[Wrathoran]

i was thinking of changing my JK to something like that.. what do you guys think?

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crZhGRMrhddMRZh.1

 

want to level in pve, tank in pve and do pvp on the side

Edited February 17, 2012 by Wrathoran

[VxMenionxV]

granted yes you have a point I'm not beating on geared 50's. But would it be fair to safely assume it would be like beating on geared 50's in light armor? I don't really see why not....

 

I'm sorry, but You really don't know what your talking about, Orabus. As a Pre-50 Jedi Sentinel (Combat Spec), i was doing ~250,000 Damage a warzone and hitting the 25 Kills Medal every Match i played. As soon as i became a Fresh 50 and started playing against Champion and BM Players, My Damage immediately dropped to 85,000 a Match and i couldn't earn more than the 10 Kill Medal.

 

Switching to Watchman Spec, and Getting Most of My Tier 1 PVP Gear has once again allowed me to get my 25 Kills Medals and now has my Damage Averaging in the ~170,000 Range.. but i'm still far behind where i was Pre-50.

 

I Play Regularly with Marqas in PVP Warzones and he's usually in the Top of the ladder for Kills and Damage despite still only having his champion gear.

 

Bioware has talked about wanting to Reduce the Impact that the 3 Tiers of PVP Gear.. But until they do, you'll notice a huge dip in your numbers once you start your 50 bracket.

[Skillzdatkill]

[Skillzdatkill]

[nickelplease]

Focus bombers won't be getting 5k after the surge nerf, thus your point is moot, now read above look at the screen and note the fact you dodged the fact I mentioned you are geared vs fresh 50's which is the only difference.

 

Heh, last night I did 7089 Force Sweep followed up with a 6056 dispatch on a sorc....

 

After surge nerf, I'm hitting a little over 5.5k-6.2k on the routine.

 

I don't understand people talking about focus bombing? Like all I do in a Warzone is wait for my cooldowns and jump into a crowd....

[Cruorr]

You cant beat Focus. I do all the same things as Focus the guy who claims to be a WoW gladiator does: intervene to people, los casters, make people los thier healers etc... but I stay in defensive stance so that I can keep guard on people at all times. I have ended games with 150k defense and 300k damage.

 

POST surge nerf, I have done a 6500 sweep while in defensive stance, (my gear is custom BM gear) and followed up with a 4000 blade storm. Maybe not on the best geared guy but I did it... I can hit top geared light/medium armored players for over 5k, I always get my 5k medal.

 

Vig does have some nice elements but Focus is still #1.

[Solonius]

the 1.3k he's talking about wasn't on someone in light armor.

 

I routinely get 3-4k crits on people with low expertise and light armor and I only have a champion saber... 4k being dispatch, but I've gotten an overhead that high with gather strength procced, and 3ks are not terribly uncommon vs low armor targets.

 

As to the rest of this thread, vig/def has a place in pvp, pure vig has a place in PvP. Shien is a fine stance, Soresu is a fine stance, both have their uses and most builds that take Shien also will use Soresu some times.

 

There is utility in the Vig build that Vig/def can't pick up, and there's certainly survivability that can lead to utility in the vig/def build that Vig can't pick up.

 

The builds have very different purposes in pvp. Play whichever you like more.

 

Made a thread showing what the Def/Vig build is capable of if anyone is interested. Doesn't have any replies so I guess most people don't like it. Oh well, I think it works great though.

[pinchbottom]

This thread seems alive with opinions, so someone give me theirs on this:

 

I'm currently leveling a guardian to PvP with my friends who are a sage healer and a sentinel (watchmman) The sent will DPS, the sage will heal, and I will be peeling/CCing like mad and DPSing when needed.

 

I plan to run this spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frofdMbkzZIMMor0z.1 while running in Shien form for the focus gain, switching to soresu for gaurd if taunt/challenging call isn't enough for a particular situation, but mostly I'll be in Shien. I will be carrying a DPS offhand instead of a shield.

 

Tell me why this spec is a good idea.

 

Tell me why this spec is a bad idea.

 

EDIT: I forgot to ask, assuming you think the spec I posted is decent for my purposes, which is better, gather strength or burning blade?

 

Burning blade being tied to a 4 sec cool down, and with a low dmg 6 sec DOT it just doesn't seem that useful, but 10% stacking buff to melee dmg (slash, sunder armor, ect.) seems good but maybe at higher levels it's not? I'm only level 16 on this toon right now but so far it seems like I spend about 90% of WZs with my movement impaired in some way, seems like I'd get more use outta gather strength all in all, but someone who knows better tell me.

Edited February 18, 2012 by pinchbottom

[Wrathoran]

dont forget that they nerfed the switching. So each time you switch, you drop to 0 focus and need to build it up again.

 

Im not really a fan of your build, i think it try to do two things but wont really get both of them well.

 

Dust Storm : 5% accuracy at 50 pvp is not really much , i had some people do it on my mercenary and never really saw the difference, i wasnt missing either.

 

Guard Stance : you wont really be using Soresu but i can guess it is a filler, still a waste since you will be in Shien

 

Blade Barricade : Require you to riposte so you will need to be targeted and have done a shield or a defense like dodge/parry to have it activate, it will still come by but instead of costing 1 focus, it will cost three. It is not wasted but perhaps wont have the potential you will hope to have

 

Blade Barrier : well i wouldnt drop point in it for pvp.. i cannot really say in theorycrafting how much it really produce and how you can change it but when you get it around lvl 30 even at 40 it was producing somewhere around 300 absorb? (really not sure). All i know is , it was really low and usually preventing only a single strike from a normal mob or a strong mob. In pvp you wont really notice it. it is not a life saver.

 

The rest of the points are ok but it is not a build that seem really efficient in my opinion (for what it is worth). If you wanna be a ****** and peel from your buddy like a madman, you need to survive because in Shien when you get focused a little, you go down quick. So you better take a path with more survivability or more damage.

 

perhaps this would be better?

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crGzur0kzZhRrMr0z.1

running around with a shield and most of your peeling abilities are lower in cd. It is still not something that i would use (not because it wouldnt be good but not my style of play) but you could give it a whirl

 

edit: to be a real damage dealer , you need at least to go up to overhead slash. In the build you made, you heavy hitter is hilt strike. If you were counting on master strike , you can be interrupted or t he enemy can move away. Leaving you with less possibility to defend yourself or help capture a point while at the same time missing the AC from shield/soresu. Its like being weak/weak

 

edit 2 : Since your friend dps and the other can heal, perhaps going with a full defensive build like that with a shield.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crGfur0kzRZoMZGM.1

 

You get all the CC/peeling ability while a good guardian slash is really decent dps and you will be hard to take down. I would go with a shield and soresu AND with dps gear on (crit surge). Because to generate enough combo point with the build you posted in Shien form, you need to be getting attacked but the problem is, you wont live to spend them mostly. With this one, instead of being an annoying mosquitos, you will be an annoying tank. If you dont survive, you cant peel. A sage that is guarded and heal like a madman is really annoying

Edited February 18, 2012 by Wrathoran

[pinchbottom]

Thanks for the feedback I didn't realize they nerfed stance switching, that puts a crimp in things....

 

Dust storm, blade barricade, and the 1 point in gaurd stance are all fillers, a I'd be using Shien and not soresu they were the only abilities that I could get any utility out of.

 

As I said, I don't plan on doing much dmg, the build is first for control, seconly for dps. So far I am constantly rage starved and thought the +1 focus when attacked, and +1 focus refund on abilities of shien could help with that, the +dmg just being icing on the cake.

 

I guess it comes down to survival vs focus generation, and in my experience with vanguard and assassin the tanking ability/stance/cell usually adds marginal survival at best at higher levels. Mostly because the shield mechanic is basically useless in PvP.

 

the build you posted makes sense, and would no doubt be more effecient talent point wise, but it would force me to run in soresu which seems underwhelming.

 

Thanks for the insight on blade barricade, I wasn't sure how much dmg it would absorb. Maybe it'd be better to put those two points in burning blade or master focus (although 10 sec off one minute CD doesn't seem that great)

 

Anyway, thx again for the input.

 

dont forget that they nerfed the switching. So each time you switch, you drop to 0 focus and need to build it up again.

 

Im not really a fan of your build, i think it try to do two things but wont really get both of them well.

 

Dust Storm : 5% accuracy at 50 pvp is not really much , i had some people do it on my mercenary and never really saw the difference, i wasnt missing either.

 

Guard Stance : you wont really be using Soresu but i can guess it is a filler, still a waste since you will be in Shien

 

Blade Barricade : Require you to riposte so you will need to be targeted and have done a shield or a defense like dodge/parry to have it activate, it will still come by but instead of costing 1 focus, it will cost three. It is not wasted but perhaps wont have the potential you will hope to have

 

Blade Barrier : well i wouldnt drop point in it for pvp.. i cannot really say in theorycrafting how much it really produce and how you can change it but when you get it around lvl 30 even at 40 it was producing somewhere around 300 absorb? (really not sure). All i know is , it was really low and usually preventing only a single strike from a normal mob or a strong mob. In pvp you wont really notice it. it is not a life saver.

 

The rest of the points are ok but it is not a build that seem really efficient in my opinion (for what it is worth). If you wanna be a ****** and peel from your buddy like a madman, you need to survive because in Shien when you get focused a little, you go down quick. So you better take a path with more survivability or more damage.

 

perhaps this would be better?

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crGzur0kzZhRrMr0z.1

running around with a shield and most of your peeling abilities are lower in cd. It is still not something that i would use (not because it wouldnt be good but not my style of play) but you could give it a whirl

 

edit: to be a real damage dealer , you need at least to go up to overhead slash. In the build you made, you heavy hitter is hilt strike. If you were counting on master strike , you can be interrupted or t he enemy can move away. Leaving you with less possibility to defend yourself or help capture a point while at the same time missing the AC from shield/soresu. Its like being weak/weak

[Wrathoran]

well shien doesnt had that much more damage to tell the truth compared to survivability (im testing it right now). It is mostly the other talents in the tree like overhead slash etc.

 

Soresu :

 

reducing all damage taken by 6%

increasing armor rating by 60%

increasing threat generation by 50%

increases shield chance by 15%

taking damage builds 1 rage

but all Assault abilities generate 1 less rage

This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds

 

Shien :

 

increasing all damage dealt by 6%

All attacks that cost focus will refund 1 focus when used

taking damage generates 1 focus

this effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.

+talent 6% more

 

So one you are less squishy , the otehr you do 12% more damage + generating focus points way faster, meaning you spam more attack.

 

The point is, to help your friend healer, you will guard them no? If you guard them, you share 50% of the damage they take. So lets take a regular WZ crit of 2k. You take 1k he take 1k. When there is 4 people attacking him, your life will drop. If you are in shien form, first , you wont be able to guard him since you need to be soresu. So your friend will die really fast. If you are in soresu and guard him, with talent like Blade baricade , guard stance, warding call, saber ward, guardian leap etc. you can prevent ALOT of damage on you and on your friend becuase the damage you take go through your mitigation.

 

Shield might not be that good but flat decrease in damage of those talent are god sent to survival. So the longer your healer survive, the longer you will too. Because if 3 people jump on your healer while you are in dps stance , he will die. If they jump on him while you are in tanking stance guarding him, there is a greater chance of survival.