why level a tank when you only need ONE at endgame?

[Toogeloo]

Tank yes, but healers? With the amount of sages rockin the servers there's never a shortage of healers. I've been stuck in groups with several healers with my sawbones scoundrel... Mind you it takes longer, but is actually easier.

 

Opposite on my Server... Healers are rare as hell.

[Toogeloo]

No you dont need two tanks for that... I dont know how to respond cause I dont tank but Its not been an issue... tank gets knocked back then "Storms" in and taunts. Simple.

 

Never had that rare instance where when the tank get knocked back AD turns around and cleaves all the melee wiping a third of the raid?

[Akku]

Never had that rare instance where when the tank get knocked back AD turns around and cleaves all the melee wiping a third of the raid?

 

Well no... because he does the cleave with the tank knock back. He does a second aoe, "Proximity Alert Detected" or some such, and that is a 360 degree blast for about 10 yards. The trick with AD is position yourself so he bounces you off a wall, so you taunt within a global and then charge back in. Once you get the rhythm down its really easy to 1 tank imo.

[Eroex]

Then who was getting mauled By the Arkay(s) in place of a tank at the other pylon?

 

And how about Karraga's? I can easly think of at least two bosses (Jarg&Sorno and G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator) that would be quite difficult for most groups -if not impossible- with only one tank.

 

While I'm sure you have a good answer for that, even so, just because you do not "Need" a second tank does not mean that having a second/off-tank wouldn't be helpful for quite a lot of groups.

 

Player skill?

 

You can CC and kite the aklays, and if you look at the pillars and do them correctly you shouldn't get more than 1 spawn of them any way. Im a DPS powertech on the side without the MT, I taunt and kite them when they get close i stun it. If 2 spawn(its very rare that they do) we CC one then kite the other, then kill the CCed one.

 

Jarg and sorno can be tanked with one main tank, just have a DPS toss on tank gear and stand in front of sorno.

 

Heavy fabricator? we have never needed any one to taunt that at all the tank has always solo tanked it with out ever switching. Its called have 3 DPS up top doing the switches as fast as possible going to the far right and far left. they only come down to DPS the boss on the far right one because thats the only one that gives a damage boost, after the boost is over he goes back and doesnt leave the switches till you have done the left one then got it back to the right again.

 

 

This is a L2P situation.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Eroex

[LuthirFontaine]

Player skill?

 

 

Jarg and sorno can be tanked with one main tank, just have a DPS toss on tank gear and stand in front of sorno.

 

 

 

 

This is a L2P situation.

 

 

 

How did you deal with the heat wave?

[bobmcbo]

if you even HAVE heals, they can make boss fights go much much smoother. Between getting Temple (ranged DPS) and SCORPIO (melee tank), I pretty much had Temple fighting everything but the bosses, while kaliyo (ranged tank) took out the bosses

[Elyx]

To the OP:

 

Your initial statement is flawed. There is no such thing as a tank class in this game. there are Advanced Classes with Tank specs. Big difference...

 

My Jugg has 2 options to do damage with, and one option to tank with. he has to respec to take complete advantage of either or.

 

I bring this up because, though your initial statement/question may have been innocent, it is a continuation of the ignorance that perpetuates in this environment...that a class that has the capability to tank would do less damage in a damage spec then a class that doesn't have that option. You never hear people saying a sorc/sage does poor damage...even though they're a healing class...oh excuse me, an Advanced Class with a Healing Tree.

 

So, to answer your misleading question, what would i do? I'm doing it....DPS with a class that has mechanics I really enjoy. Tried the maurader/sentinel, and I just prefer how the single blade Jugg/Knight behaves. and he does pretty good DPS too. so far the unnofficial tests I've seen people run show the Jugg/knight decently in the upper middle of the pack. It's certainly not conclusive (we can't be atm), but it's more then nothing.

 

So You play a Jugg/Knight, PT/Vanguard, or Assasin/SC because you like the class...the fact that it has a tank tree is insignificant in this discussion.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Elyx

[Toogeloo]

I break the mold as well...

 

My two 50s... Juggernaut and Assassin. I tank with the Assassin and DPS with the Jug.

[xioix]

To the OP:

 

Your initial statement is flawed. There is no such thing as a tank class in this game. there are Advanced Classes with Tank specs. Big difference...

 

My Jugg has 2 options to do damage with, and one option to tank with. he has to respec to take complete advantage of either or.

 

I bring this up because, though your initial statement/question may have been innocent, it is a continuation of the ignorance that perpetuates in this environment...that a class that has the capability to tank would do less damage in a damage spec then a class that doesn't have that option. You never hear people saying a sorc/sage does poor damage...even though they're a healing class...oh excuse me, an Advanced Class with a Healing Tree.

 

So, to answer your misleading question, what would i do? I'm doing it....DPS with a class that has mechanics I really enjoy. Tried the maurader/sentinel, and I just prefer how the single blade Jugg/Knight behaves. and he does pretty good DPS too. so far the unnofficial tests I've seen people run show the Jugg/knight decently in the upper middle of the pack. It's certainly not conclusive (we can't be atm), but it's more then nothing.

 

So You play a Jugg/Knight, PT/Vanguard, or Assasin/SC because you like the class...the fact that it has a tank tree is insignificant in this discussion.

 

Elyx, if I wanted my tank to DPS, I would roll a proper DPS class. It's stupid that I'm a tank from 1-50 and then at endgame, I would have to be DPS in order to do the bigger raid content.

[ProsaicProse]

Is there anything else they are needed for?

 

If everyone thought like this, no one would level tanks and we'd have none at end game. So I guess someone has to. Maybe they do it because the AC is fun and not pigeon holed into tanking?

Edited February 14, 2012 by ProsaicProse

[DLSilence]

Annihilation Droid with one tank = wipe

Jarg and Sorno with one tank = wipe

Pylons with one tank = maybe

Foreman Crusher with one tank = wipe

My question is, have you tried endgame past normal operations? Even if the bosses do only require one tank, do you really want to chance it? Soa with one tank? It only takes one slip up on the lightning ball spawns during phase 3 to take out your lone tank.. then what will you do? On top of that, What do you do when your guilds tanks can't make it.. or want to run an alt? Somebody has to tank..

Edited February 14, 2012 by DLSilence

[xioix]

If everyone thought like this, no one would level tanks and we'd have none at end game.

 

Actually, there are way too many tanks at endgame. If you look at the guild recruitment forum, no guild is in need of a MAIN tank! It's either you offtank for 1 or 2 fights (mind you, not the entire dungeon but just a specific boss) or you DPS.

 

Now, you might think there are few tanks because of the LFG spam but look at what they're spamming---FP HM which is not the endgame. 8-16 raid man is. Again, pay attention to the LFG spam and the guild recruitment forum... no one is asking for a MAIN tank. MTs role ends at HM FPs for the great majority.

Edited February 14, 2012 by xioix

[sanctified]

Xiox, you make it sound like it's impossible to put together groups yourself. It isn't. The majority of players in this game that I've come across are unguilded. I am not going to suck up to some clique of players with my hat in my hand, and say "Please sir, may I come raid with you?"

 

If I want to do ops, I'll put my own groups together. What you've failed to realize is that by leveling 10-50 as a tank, you meet a hell of a lot of healers and dps. I cherrypick the ones I like and do content with them. It's called 'playing the social game.'

 

The reason that "most Tank's endgame ends at HM FP's" is because most people are lazy gits who want other people to do the work of making contacts and setting groups up. Simple as that.

 

**** wanting to be one of the herd. I eat red meat. I am not a cow.

Edited February 14, 2012 by sanctified

[JLapp]

Annihilation Droid with one tank = wipe

Jarg and Sorno with one tank = wipe

Pylons with one tank = maybe

Foreman Crusher with one tank = wipe

My question is, have you tried endgame past normal operations? Even if the bosses do only require one tank, do you really want to chance it? Soa with one tank? It only takes one slip up on the lightning ball spawns during phase 3 to take out your lone tank.. then what will you do? On top of that, What do you do when your guilds tanks can't make it.. or want to run an alt? Somebody has to tank..

 

I haven't done Nightmare mode...but speaking from my runs in hard mode operations:

 

My first HM attempt at Annihilation Droid the tank died about half way through...we managed the rest of the fight without a tank.

 

Pylons do not require any tank really. The weak mobs die very fast. You are going to get one Akalay (sp?) but it doesn't have a lot of HP and knockbacks and stuns are enough to kill it.

 

To your comment about "chancing it." Bringing two tanks can make somethings easier...but it will also make things harder in that your other DPS needs to be good enough to make up for the lower damage a tank will be doing. As much as you are taking a chance with one tank, with two you are taking a chance against enrage timers.

[Daekarus]

OP seems unable to fathom the fact that classes which have a tanking tree also have a very competent dps tree which is equivalent to those of the dps-only classes. I suggest we leave him to meditate on the wisdom in this thread and let it fall into the lost depths of the thread list.

[Toogeloo]

16 Mans v. 8 Mans might be where some discussion errors might be happening.

 

In 16 Mans, Nightmare certainly requires two tanks. AnDroid will one shot people with his arm cannon if the tanks aren't bouncing threat back and forth. He does the same thing in Hard Mode, and it will one shot in 16 man, but in 8 man, so so long as your dps and healers can take a hit, it's not a problem.

 

The rest of EV doesn't require more than 1 Tank, but having an extra one helps. 10 DPS should be more than plenty to beat ever enrage timer in EV, even on Nightmare, so long as they aren't all melee.

 

KP Normal, Hard, and Nightmare, you should definitely have two tanks, if only for Jarg and Sorno and Foreman Crusher. Tanks on Bonethrasher are only for the adds mid fight, the Puzzle Boss Droid *can* be tanked with one tank if the stacks of armor debuff don't make him too squishy, even at 10, and Karraga is a one tank fight. Still, with 10 DPS, you shouldn't be hitting enrage timers if your group knows what it's doing.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Toogeloo

[DLSilence]

 

To your comment about "chancing it." Bringing two tanks can make somethings easier...but it will also make things harder in that your other DPS needs to be good enough to make up for the lower damage a tank will be doing. As much as you are taking a chance with one tank, with two you are taking a chance against enrage timers.

 

If having two tanks makes you hit enrage timers, you need to start benching some dps, the game was made for you to bring two tanks. If having the 2nd tank isn't enough dps then someone isn't doing their job and shouldn't be there.

[SageH]

You are confused. EV nightmare with one tank? Don't think so.

 

We do all Nightmares with one tank with the exception of Jarg and Sorno and Fabricator from time to time. We don't bring a single tank in on Bonethrasher.

Edited February 14, 2012 by SageH

[generalsanmai]

Annihilation Droid with one tank = wipe

Jarg and Sorno with one tank = wipe

Pylons with one tank = maybe

Foreman Crusher with one tank = wipe

My question is, have you tried endgame past normal operations? Even if the bosses do only require one tank, do you really want to chance it? Soa with one tank? It only takes one slip up on the lightning ball spawns during phase 3 to take out your lone tank.. then what will you do? On top of that, What do you do when your guilds tanks can't make it.. or want to run an alt? Somebody has to tank..

 

My guild has cleared everything on Nightmare using 1 tank, except Soa. We're in phase 3 of that fight, and 1 tank is fine.

 

The only fight that requires another "tank" is Jarg and Sorno, but even then we just use a dps in tank stance, wearing DPS gear. With a properly geared MT and good healers, you don't need a second tank for anything else.

 

We don't even move the Heavy Fabricator droid, he just stays parked under the far right torch. We also only use 1 person, an assassin, to flip switches. Like I said, if your healers and MT is good enough, the fights are easy.

[Synacus]

All tank classes can spec to be DPS at 50 and put out damage equal (or at least very nearly equal) to pure DPS classes, if played correctly. The only thing they lack in that role, is utility.

 

Everyone says this but guess what ppl only want ranged DPS.They don't want you.

[ounkeo]

If you are in a guild that already has a main tank and a backup tank, you can spec for DPS. Just because you rolled a tank doesn't make the other 2 trees useless.

 

Also, most guilds don't have a dedicated tank 24/7 or even a dedicated tank. You need plenty of redundancy in your healer and tank pool. If everyone is DPS, you're going to have problems doing anything once your 1 or 2 tanks log off.

 

If you notice in MMORPG's in general, tanks and healers are the most sought after because there is infinitely more DPS players. In a properly balanced guild, your population of tanks and healers should be high enough to cover activities 24/7 in an ideal scenario. And remember, you also need overlap as not every tank can or will log in at the same time, every time. It's just not realistic.

 

Otherwise you end up in a guild with 100 dps guys standing around twiddling their thumbs because your 1 tank had a wedding to attend or he had to go to the dentist.

[Rafkin]

Those guilds doing Nightmare modes with one tank are rare. If you're in one of these hardcore raiding guilds then maybe you don't want to make a tank.

 

But if you're the other 99% of the players, two tanks is the norm for operations.

[RavenMuse]

Rather short sighted bunch here isn't there? Firstly more people, more tanks and healers = more Ops teams.... DPS are only rarely in short supply.

 

I can't see my guild being exceptional in that there are always groups of 50's looking to do HM's, oft needing a tank or healer to form the group, if you only have one tank in the guild then he better have no life offline and be a robot that doesn't need sleep

 

My main is a tank, however that isn't the only tank I'm leveling.. If my main is on lockout and I'm the only tank player online at the time a second tank in my stable means I can still step in and allow more members of the guild chance to run. I'm leveling more than one healer also partly for the same reason.

 

My main maybe committed to a regular run but a second string means I can take less experienced guildies on runs to learn, using the experience gained from my main but without compromising my mains lockouts.

 

with only one of anything you have no options and options are a good thing!