Jedi Guardian - viable end game DPS?

[Accoro]

So yeh, is a Jedi Guardian viable end-game DPS?

 

I already have 2 tanks, so in my completionist madness, I decided to level a Guardian.

Will I be forced to spec into being a tank if I decide to raid or is it actually a viable DPS class?

[motojoe]

Yes we are as viable as everyone else, dont let anyoen tell you differently.

[motojoe]

Also we bring alot to the table when **** hits the fan, we can easily offtank when needed. Especially vigilance specced guards.

[Cawyn]

Ironically, it will be the other way around most of the time: you will be asked to go DPS because the tank spot has already been filled (there are often too many tanks around at 50 - at least in my experience).

 

 

The thing is, while you can do amazing damage (given proper gear and usage of skills), guardian might not always be a good choice to for DPS. Not because you're melee, not because you don't bring enough utility but simply because you do too much damage. Like all tank/dd/dd-classes, you lack a reliable way to reduce your own threat level, which means you will most likely pull aggro from the tank at some point, if you keep pumping out damage.

 

 

If you play with a guild or a set group of people who are aware of this and are ready to deal with it (like putting guard on you instead of the healer) this probably won't be too bad. But for someone who plays with pickup-groups (like me), the whole thing can get extremely annoying. Playing a DPS guardian with a PUG is a choice between driving with the brakes on or crashing through the side rail at full speed.

 

 

So yes, guardian DPS is quite viable in the end but it relies more on a proper team than pure DPS classes.

[Zarthorn]

For PvE/Raiding your best bet for DPS is 7/34/0 Vigilance using the Shien stance, better overall dps than Focus as you can keep all your DoT's up pretty much constantly and have one of our better damaging attack combos in Overhead Slash > Blade storm.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500fMZIMrRruddMR.1

 

If going PvP, Vigil is...okay but Focus is the better one atm for burst.

[Alamein]

Guardian DPS is just fine. Lately I have been DPSing in raids as most encounters only really need 1 tank or the occasional 2. I find focus to be more fun (Big numbers!!) but I think that for boss fights your best bet is to be Vigilance as someone posted previously.

 

Another point someone touched on, was that we can pop into Soresu if **** hits the fan, or on Jarg/Sorno when your tanks are frozen you can pick one up.

 

For PvP you want to be focus.

 

Quick answer: yes.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Alamein

[Yngwe]

Someone mentioned lack of threat reduction. My understanding was that Protector in the Vigilance tree reduces your threat when you Guardian Leap, as well as the threat of the target. Anyone know if that is correct? I may do my first FP as DPS spec tonight, so that would be good to know.

[Alamein]

Yes that is correct, when you spec into it, Guardian leap will apply its full effect to you.

[GarfieldJL]

If you are a Guardian DPS, always have a shield in the offhand (believe it or not it will activate when in shien form (not at the rate of sorseu).

 

1. If you have to switch to sorseu in an emergency you have the shield damage reduction there waiting.

 

2. We can run briefly as a tank if the tank gets clobbered.

[PhoR]

Someone mentioned lack of threat reduction. My understanding was that Protector in the Vigilance tree reduces your threat when you Guardian Leap, as well as the threat of the target. Anyone know if that is correct?

 

Yes that is correct, when you spec into it, Guardian leap will apply its full effect to you.

 

According to recent testing done by Paydroid and Blev, the threat reduction DOES NOT get copied to the Guardian.

Is that intended? Impossible to say. Could just be a bug.

 

But the tests are fairly conclusive. A guardian attacks an elite to get aggro. Two other players both shoot the elite a couple times to get a small amount of threat, then everyone stops attacking. Guardian uses Gleap over and over on one of the two, which should eventually force the elite to attack the third, but it never does, it stays on the guardian.

 

Another test they let the DPS actually pull aggro and then Gleap to them, which immediately puts aggro back on the Guardian.

 

I believe all of these tests were done in Soresu form, so maybe it functions differently in Shien or Shii-cho?

Edited February 10, 2012 by PhoR

[DelongoWoods]

i tend to pull agrro a few times off my tank in raids because i do to much dmg, but thats my job, If anyone is gonna die or has the ability to pull agrro it would be the JK. and when i do Pull agrro, i just go tank stance swing the boss back into postion and stop dpsing.

[VoidJustice]

Vig/Defence works great till level 43 (as far as I've tested).

It's not easy... and pvp doesn't get anywhere near balanced

till after the late 30's, but it's all doable... even tanking instances.

 

Thank god the stories fun or I would never have made it through the

nightmare that was learning and leveling this class...

[DoctorWhorrible]

According to recent testing done by Paydroid and Blev, the threat reduction DOES NOT get copied to the Guardian.

Is that intended? Impossible to say. Could just be a bug.

 

But the tests are fairly conclusive. A guardian attacks an elite to get aggro. Two other players both shoot the elite a couple times to get a small amount of threat, then everyone stops attacking. Guardian uses Gleap over and over on one of the two, which should eventually force the elite to attack the third, but it never does, it stays on the guardian.

 

Another test they let the DPS actually pull aggro and then Gleap to them, which immediately puts aggro back on the Guardian.

 

I believe all of these tests were done in Soresu form, so maybe it functions differently in Shien or Shii-cho?

 

Why, exactly, would they do those tests in Soresu form which increases their threat generatioN? O.o

 

Wouldn't the idea be to see if you could drop your dps aggro which would not include increased threat generation. I know it may be a small detail, but it just seems a strange choice.

[Sbanasiak]

I am speced as a Vigilance Guardian myself and I have found that I can easily do DPS and tank. I tend to stay in my defensive Saber stance at all times which in my experiences at lvl 50 allows me to no have as high a threat lvl at times. I have a lot of end game gear on my toon so I have high strength and high HP. In my opinion there are tanking features in the Vig tree as well as the defensive tree and DPS in both. I think a lot of it has to do with play style and your understanding of using all your abilities to the fullest

[bamsmacked]

If you're focus specced you'll do tons of burst damage and shouldn't have any problems for end game DPS in that tree..

 

Vigilance on the other hand has some problems. I can maintain good DPS but I been in situations where my Overhead Slash which is our hardest hitting attack is often parried, or absorbed by a shield. And with Plasma Brand being a lack luster talent it really hurts Vigilance because it's a elemental attack with low initial damage, high focus cost and to see the full dmg of the talent you have to wait 12 seconds.

 

12 seconds is a long time in PvP. The Vengeance and Vigilance trees need some serious work.

 

I really dislike the fact that Focus trumps all DPS trees for both the Guardian and Sentinel. It's disappointing because eventually unless things are fixed and balanced in other trees, EVERY SINGLE Knight and Warrior is going to be focused specced, unless tanking.

[PhoR]

Why, exactly, would they do those tests in Soresu form which increases their threat generatioN? O.o

 

Wouldn't the idea be to see if you could drop your dps aggro which would not include increased threat generation. I know it may be a small detail, but it just seems a strange choice.

 

Because they're both tanks, and they were testing Protector for use in the 14/27/0 hybrid tank build.

[Swampchicken]

If you're focus specced you'll do tons of burst damage and shouldn't have any problems for end game DPS in that tree..

 

Vigilance on the other hand has some problems. I can maintain good DPS but I been in situations where my Overhead Slash which is our hardest hitting attack is often parried, or absorbed by a shield. And with Plasma Brand being a lack luster talent it really hurts Vigilance because it's a elemental attack with low initial damage, high focus cost and to see the full dmg of the talent you have to wait 12 seconds.

 

12 seconds is a long time in PvP. The Vengeance and Vigilance trees need some serious work.

 

I really dislike the fact that Focus trumps all DPS trees for both the Guardian and Sentinel. It's disappointing because eventually unless things are fixed and balanced in other trees, EVERY SINGLE Knight and Warrior is going to be focused specced, unless tanking.

 

Disregard literally everything this guy said.

[Demaio-J]

For PvE/Raiding your best bet for DPS is 7/34/0 Vigilance using the Shien stance, better overall dps than Focus as you can keep all your DoT's up pretty much constantly and have one of our better damaging attack combos in Overhead Slash > Blade storm.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500fMZIMrRruddMR.1

 

If going PvP, Vigil is...okay but Focus is the better one atm for burst.

 

More or less what he said. However! Plan out your talent tree, it may be better to move a few points out of the more mediocre talents to pick up Insight in the focus tree to push your crit on Blade Storm to 100%.

[FalmeseReb]

my only problem with my focus guardian is I pull aggro because i do more dps then the tank can handle. tbh i dont blame them, when you leap into a group of 5 strongs/elites and hit them all for 5k its hard to match that kind of threat.

[Mycrof]

If you are a Guardian DPS, always have a shield in the offhand (believe it or not it will activate when in shien form (not at the rate of sorseu).

 

1. If you have to switch to sorseu in an emergency you have the shield damage reduction there waiting.

 

2. We can run briefly as a tank if the tank gets clobbered.

 

I'd only recommend this if you intend on stance shifting into your tanking form.

[Kraven]

As a PvE Vigilance dps in almost full rakata, who has cleared both EV and KP on nightmare 16 man, I can say while we are good enough to make up for our spot, we could use a bit of love, as the gear increased in the guild, we actually seem to fall slightly behind, but still more than enough to earn our spot. (We run dps tests on Council to see who is the best dps player and such).