Uluain Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Honestly, I don't really care anymore how they do it, or even when. I just want to hear something more than the same freaking response that we've gotten since September. What really bugs me about this is that a statement posted by a dev in this thread saying "It's on the back burner at the moment due to this, this and this" OR "We're working on it and you'll see something in the near future" would take less than 5 minutes to do, and yet NO ONE seems to think to do this. No, it's more complex than that. There is no way that the Dev Team isn't aware that we are waiting to hear something. When 5% of the posts to this week's Q&A thread were asking for an update on same-gender content, they can't not know. We have done our best to be polite and constructive in this thread and it's maxed-out predecessor, but most of all we have maintained its visibility. And, as an aside, I personally very much appreciate the assistance of the Community Reps who moderate these forums, and who have been very, very helpful at keeping this discussion civil and on topic in spite of strong feelings on all sides. So they are helping us maintain visibility and - more to the point - focus on our principal purpose here - to request further information. One of the things Community Reps do is pass the word up regarding what players are talking about. I cannot imagine our moderators working so diligently to keep this topic and others related to it open and constructive without also making sure that those who should be aware of it are. So - we have to assume that they are at least thinking about what to say, and when and how to say it. They haven't said anything yet. One reasonable inference I draw from that is: if they know saying nothing is escalating dissatisfaction, and still aren't saying anything, then they are being very, very careful with what they do say. That is, from their point of view, saying the wrong thing would be worse than saying nothing. And I am counting on them having gotten the message that saying nothing is bad. I do not expect to hear anything until they can give us something substantive. On the other hand, the longer it takes the more substantive that information is going to need to be. I very much hope that tomorrow they will step up with what they have - or even just admit what answers they don't have. If they can't tell us anything tomorrow, I think that we will have to conclude that same-gender content is deeply back-burnered or otherwise adrift in Development Hell. But even if it is, I think it would be wise of them to be forthright with us about it. Keeping my fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusedMoose Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Man, I miss all kinds of fun in this thread when I go to work. Mako in particular gets a lot of tension with a female PC as it is. When I played a female BH during the beta, before I knew same-sex romances weren't in the game, I thought it was pretty darn obvious that Mako and my lady BH were going to end up together. I don't think it's a stretch at all to make Mako bisexual. I had the exact same experience, pretty much. One of Mako's early lines to the BH was kind of suggestive, and I'm guessing it was made that way because she's a romanceable character. So if she's like that from the start, then hopefully she'll be a SGR option. BH: Nobody understands our love! Blizz: Utinni! I swear, if Blizz becomes a SGR relationship option, I will roll a male BH and give him the personality of Marvel's Deadpool, and he and Blizz will bombard their way across the galaxy while looking lovingly into each others' eyes. Just sayin'. Romancing Dorne as a woman would be soooo much fun. She gets all flustered and stammery when she's flirted with as a man (that I've seen), I can only imagine it'd be even moreso while being chatted up by another woman. So cute. I really hope BW makes this happen. I'd been planning on RPing my female trooper as an Imperial double agent doing all she could to screw up the Republic's army from the inside, but Dorne being an SGR option might make her defect. Making everyone bi isn't really enabling same gender relationships as much as it is making gender no more then an aesthetics choice. I really hope that that BW doesn't punt and take this half assed approach. Race is already merely an aesthetic choice in the game, something BioWare did deliberately so that people would play the race they wanted, not the one they thought had the most useful racial bonus. Why shouldn't people then be able to play the gender they want to, rather than the one that lets them romance the companion they like the most? Also, further thoughts on the viability of the "hero-sexual" option: it's a classic fictional trope that people tend to bond under fire; lots of fictional romances are born from people who risk their lives together on a regular basis and grow closer because of it. Think about what our characters do every single time we play them. The sheer amount of trouble our characters seek out, the powerful foes they defeat, the ridiculously dangerous situations they get into... all with their companions at their sides. I know that the affection rating counts for some of this, but if I was reading about these adventures, I'd be bloody surprised if the companion relationships didn't all blossom into closer bonds and perhaps even more. Because of this, I think hero-sexuality makes perfect sense for this game. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depizan Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Also, further thoughts on the viability of the "hero-sexual" option: it's a classic fictional trope that people tend to bond under fire; lots of fictional romances are born from people who risk their lives together on a regular basis and grow closer because of it. Think about what our characters do every single time we play them. The sheer amount of trouble our characters seek out, the powerful foes they defeat, the ridiculously dangerous situations they get into... all with their companions at their sides. I know that the affection rating counts for some of this, but if I was reading about these adventures, I'd be bloody surprised if the companion relationships didn't all blossom into closer bonds and perhaps even more. Because of this, I think hero-sexuality makes perfect sense for this game. Just a thought. Sounds convincing to me. And, judging from the number of opposite gender romance options, looks like how they were thinking in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sounds convincing to me. And, judging from the number of opposite gender romance options, looks like how they were thinking in the first place. I sincerely hope so. But if they were thinking along those lines from the start, what's keeping them from following up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamaranis Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Anyone else a fan of Extra Credits? They talk a lot about how games are not books or movies, and so certain things should be presented differently because they come across differently in a different medium. I think this herosexual thing falls under that heading. The more I think about it, if this were a novel or a television series, deciding a handful of characters (who weren't originally written that way) are bisexual now to meet some kind of quota would be lazy and shallow. But this is a videogame and honestly, in every other respect, the universe revolves around your character. The affections of your companions might as well do the same. Edited February 17, 2012 by Tamaranis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Anyone else a fan of Extra Credits? They talk a lot about how games are not books or movies, and so certain things should be presented differently because they come across differently in a different medium. I think this herosexual thing falls under that heading. The more I think about it, if this were a novel or a television series, deciding a handful of characters (who weren't originally written that way) are bisexual now to meet some kind of quota would be lazy and shallow. But this is a videogame and honestly, in every other respect, the universe revolves around your character. The affections of your companions might as well do the same. I mentioned this earlier in the thread but I think the post was in relation to someone being nasty and got wiped. The problem with people comparing the game to books and movies is that the form of writing you find in those mediums is passive storytelling. You're sitting down and everything within the story is already determined. So the writing of each character needs to be fixed. The more fixed detail the writer puts in (traits, idiosyncrasies, and so on) the more believable the character is. The viewer will put their own spin and interpretation over some of the events and motivations that the storyteller hasn't disclosed, but that'ss just human nature. Active storytelling, on the other hand, is telling a story ourselves, making something up from whole cloth (for the most part; it might be based on someone's world but the bulk of the significant action is still decided solely by the person telling the story). TOR isn't passive or active storytelling. It's interactive storytelling. We're not just being told a story, we're being invited in to help tell it, so there needs to be a fair amount of flexibility to both events and characters in order for us to have a significant and satisfying impact on the areas of the story we care about. If the sexuality of our companion characters remains (for the most part) undetermined until we encounter events in the game which allow us input then that simply enriches the interactive storytelling experience. The rules for how events and characters are written need to be different for interactive storytelling. Applying passive storytelling rules to interactive storytelling just ends with people saying, 'Why can't I romance Mako/Corso/Dorne/Blizz?' and over 150 pages of posts that have successfully not been mod-hammered into non-existence. The more I think on it, the more hero-sexuality makes the most sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusedMoose Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Anyone else a fan of Extra Credits? They talk a lot about how games are not books or movies, and so certain things should be presented differently because they come across differently in a different medium. I think this herosexual thing falls under that heading. The more I think about it, if this were a novel or a television series, deciding a handful of characters (who weren't originally written that way) are bisexual now to meet some kind of quota would be lazy and shallow. But this is a videogame and honestly, in every other respect, the universe revolves around your character. The affections of your companions might as well do the same. That's a really good point; thanks for bringing it up. I've never seen anyone ask why a companion character is attracted to twi'leks, or chiss, or any of the other races we can play. It's just kind of assumed that they'll be attracted to our characters, so said characters can pursue them if we want them to. Kioma, excellent points about interactive storytelling; since BioWare is so set on story being the fourth pillar of their MMO, I think they really should have as many story aspects in it as they can. I've only just gotten into interactive stories thanks to a visual novel, and TOR is a ton more interactive than that game. But the attachment I had to the VN's characters due to getting to be a part of their story, not just an observer, was huge. TOR has the potential to do even more and get us even more attached to the characters involved, since we're doing more than just picking a few choices as the story goes on, we're on a galaxy-spanning adventure. Giving us more options in ways to define the characters who make up that story will only make the game better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Giving us more options in ways to define the characters who make up that story will only make the game better. And, of course, letting the player decide who the love-interest(s) will be will allow all players to have the story they want. And people who don't want to pursue it do not have to - any more than I have to get into aspects of play that bore me to tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blainis Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Just a *bump* here. I wanted to throw my voice in for the option of same-gender flirting/relationships. It's a huge bummer not to have it. Games like Dragon Age and Sims among others have been doing it for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Here's a question that might raise a few eyebrows. Opposite gender romances can end in marriage. That seems to be the normal result if you romance a companion All The Way (baby). What about same sex relationships? Should they be phrased differently (life-partners, mates, whatever) or should the people involved actually get married? For my own part I'm not fussed either way. Marriage, partnership, whatever - if the people in question love one another I think the rest is window-dressing. But others might have different opinions. Edited February 17, 2012 by Kioma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisz_Rethon Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) as much as I'd like to see same sex romances appearing I think there are currently other priorities in development and, especially bug fixing game breaking issues. As soon as those big breakers are gone then I'll support this thread 1000% Edited February 17, 2012 by Wisz_Rethon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 as much as I'd like to see same sex romances appearing I think there are currently other priorities in development and, especially bug fixing game breaking issues. As soon as those big breakers are gone then I'll support this thread 1000% Well, as Bioware has stated same sex content is coming and the point of the thread isn't to decide where in the priority queue the content goes, do you have any thoughts on how you'd like to see it implemented when it eventually is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliapis Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) since mods deletting posts, ill step up and edit my own post before they do. Edited February 17, 2012 by bliapis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisz_Rethon Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Well, as Bioware has stated same sex content is coming and the point of the thread isn't to decide where in the priority queue the content goes, do you have any thoughts on how you'd like to see it implemented when it eventually is? well, not really. no Although one could say that once affection is high enough you could just add the flirt option and have them rerecord the etero dialgues into **** (h o m o is censored? people? really?) dialogues. Edited February 17, 2012 by Wisz_Rethon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (h o m o is censored? people? really?) Yeah, I thought that was a little overzealous of the profanity filter, too. Still, I guess some people might take offence at said word. I assume that'll happen. I mean, there's a lot of debate as to whether the current companions will get altered or if same-sex content will be new-companions only; personally I don't see a lot of reason to not change the existing companions. We're fond of them, they're well-written and changing a few pronouns here are there would make the romance lines unisex quite neatly. Bioware's being very quiet (read: silent) about it all, though, so we can only speculate. I hope we get same sex content for the existing companions. It'd be a shame to miss out on that - or, rather, to keep missing out on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarra Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I hope they patch in same gender relationships for existing companions and if they add new companions that's fine. I feel this should have been included at launch, and I was honestly surprised it wasn't considering some other BioWare games... However, since it wasn't I'll just toss my hat in and say I support same gender romance options and I hope original companions aren't "locked out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I feel this should have been included at launch, and I was honestly surprised it wasn't considering some other BioWare games... See, I was the same. I was working my way through some of the story content and when it became clear I wasn't going to be able to pursue the relationship options I wanted to I actually sent customer care a bug report. >.> Naive of me? Perhaps, but I was THAT surprised. Then I belatedly found out it wasn't a bug and here I am. Edited February 17, 2012 by Kioma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zandilar Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Here's a question that might raise a few eyebrows. Opposite gender romances can end in marriage. That seems to be the normal result if you romance a companion All The Way (baby). What about same sex relationships? Should they be phrased differently (life-partners, mates, whatever) or should the people involved actually get married? For my own part I'm not fussed either way. Marriage, partnership, whatever - if the people in question love one another I think the rest is window-dressing. But others might have different opinions. Marriage. Why would it be anything else? So much more to say on this, but sadly I can't without breaking forum rules. One thing I'm NOT down on is the whole "babies ever after" aspect that seem to pervade the "happily ever afters" of romance in SWTOR. I'm a woman who doesn't seem to have a biological clock, I've never wanted children (and at 40, I'm not likely to be changing my mind any time soon). The whole idea that babies make everything better fills me with a faint sense of horror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omarunaoe Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Mako in particular gets a lot of tension with a female PC as it is. When I played a female BH during the beta, before I knew same-sex romances weren't in the game, I thought it was pretty darn obvious that Mako and my lady BH were going to end up together. I don't think it's a stretch at all to make Mako bisexual. I feel the same way about the male BH and Torian. His attitude toward you and several of your chats are... pretty damn crush-worthy. I'm seriously hoping for the change to romance him for real. I played a Powertech to 50 and maxed all my companions affection for the sake of making credits... my new Merc, on the other hand, I plan on holding off for the sake of that dream. As far as toggles and etc. go, I honestly would prefer a means to toggle sexual orientation provided that representation of flirt/romance options would wind up even for each mode. If omitting heterosexual flirts means more **** flirts, by all means! I don't really see the toggle argument as potentially biased so much as the simplest way to handle the logistics of providing the gaming experience people want. Yes, it would be more realistic if occasionally a non-preferred gender hit on you regardless of which way you swing... but I'll take more fun over more realistic any day, at least a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zandilar Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I don't really see the toggle argument as potentially biased so much as the simplest way to handle the logistics of providing the gaming experience people want. Yes, it would be more realistic if occasionally a non-preferred gender hit on you regardless of which way you swing... but I'll take more fun over more realistic any day, at least a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. The problem is that, right now... Heterosexual flirts are available to everyone. I do not have the option to turn them off if I wanted to. Clearly no one at Bioware thought they were needed, and I don't see people jumping up and down and screaming at Bioware to implement them for the heterosexual romances currently in the game. For the record, an unfair toggle (one for homosexual romances only) would drive me from the game entirely, and probably make me question whether or not to continue to support Bioware. Fair toggles (an all encompassing toggle, or a pair of toggles to control all romances in the game) would have me fighting them every step of the way, and if that failed, I wouldn't utilize them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StSathar Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 For the record, an unfair toggle (one for homosexual romances only) would drive me from the game entirely, and probably make me question whether or not to continue to support Bioware. I'm beginning to feel the same way. For all of their effort trying to "Help," there are times I wish Bioware never brought this subject (SSR) up at all in any of their games. DA:O did a fair job, so I try to hold on to a little hope. Fair toggles (an all encompassing toggle, or a pair of toggles to control all romances in the game) would have me fighting them every step of the way, and if that failed, I wouldn't utilize them. Ironically, I was one of the first in this thread (round 1) to suggest the use of toggles . This being a debate and all, I yielded my position to the numerous insightful counter-arguments. Several people more eloquent than me have sufficiently explained why toggles of any sort are unnecessary and potentially harmful, suffice it to say that I now whole-hardheartedly agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suaine Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 See, I was the same. I was working my way through some of the story content and when it became clear I wasn't going to be able to pursue the relationship options I wanted to I actually sent customer care a bug report. >.> Naive of me? Perhaps, but I was THAT surprised. Then I belatedly found out it wasn't a bug and here I am. Heh, that's how I got here, too. Bug report, some nice back and forth between me and CS and then, well, here I am. As for your earlier question about marriage, I wonder. Personally, I wouldn't care if a number of relationships didn't end in marriage and were still committed. Straight and gay, we don't necessarily need that validation as the be all, end all of romance. I say that as a child of unmarried parents You can be together near thirty years and don't need a piece of paper or a ring to hold it all together. That said, I'd love the option. Some characters/couples would do so very well with that and some would do great with making the deliberate choice not to. Choices, choices, it all comes back to choices. I'd also like to be able to have the kids discussion, just so my characters can make the choice either way. Saying "I love you, but I don't really want children" should be as valid a choice as "omg let's make babies", you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamaranis Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Here's a question that might raise a few eyebrows. Opposite gender romances can end in marriage. That seems to be the normal result if you romance a companion All The Way (baby). What about same sex relationships? Should they be phrased differently (life-partners, mates, whatever) or should the people involved actually get married? For my own part I'm not fussed either way. Marriage, partnership, whatever - if the people in question love one another I think the rest is window-dressing. But others might have different opinions. Oh, hey, I think you figured out why they're afraid to talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Oh, hey, I think you figured out why they're afraid to talk about it. One reason why, yes. It's a *****ly issue. EDIT: Okay, what. P r i c k l y is apparently obscene too. Edited February 17, 2012 by Kioma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuffystuffs Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I sincerely hope so. But if they were thinking along those lines from the start, what's keeping them from following up? They weren't thinking along those lines. I seriously doubt they will implement 'hero sexuality' in TOR...I know they did it in DA2 and got backlash for it and I doubt they'll even do it in the next Dragon Age game. Though, I agree with you all and think it's the best option and think it unfair that race is ignored for convenience but gender isn't. Opposite gender romances can end in marriage. That seems to be the normal result if you romance a companion All The Way (baby). What about same sex relationships? Should they be phrased differently (life-partners, mates, whatever) or should the people involved actually get married? I'd say 'married' works. Though, I'd prefer to have an option not to get married (I think all heterosexual ones have to end in marriage, no?) One thing I'm NOT down on is the whole "babies ever after" aspect that seem to pervade the "happily ever afters" of romance in SWTOR. I'm a woman who doesn't seem to have a biological clock, I've never wanted children (and at 40, I'm not likely to be changing my mind any time soon). The whole idea that babies make everything better fills me with a faint sense of horror. I agree with all this too XD Edited February 17, 2012 by stuffystuffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts