Where's the innovation?

[TheHeadCapper]

I beg to differ. Giving a player an NPC companion instead of having live players playing together is idiotic beyond words. Yes, having a companion NPC in a single player game like Skyrim is OK. But in an MMO?! Silly. Just not well thought out at all.

 

.

 

After playing healing specs in some MMO's that make it extremely painful to level i can't tell you how much i enjoyed having a companion in SWTOR with my healer.

[Sarfux]

I quit Warhammer for a number of reasons. None of them are related to what i see in Star Wars and i'm not quitting this game.

 

Just because i wake up on the left side of the bed with a headache, it doesn't mean the left side of my bed causes headaches.

 

sorry bud..the warhammer argument is getting kind of old... that game didn't even last a month

 

so...umm yea stop with the warhammer stuff. sorry..TOR is not gonna fail no matter how much you want it to

[TheHeadCapper]

sorry bud..the warhammer argument is getting kind of old... that game didn't even last a month

 

so...umm yea stop with the warhammer stuff. sorry..TOR is not gonna fail no matter how much you want it to

 

You need to read my post again, you didn't get it at all in any way shape or form. Read what i quoted and then what i typed, try to keep up.

 

Was the part where i said I'm not quitting this game not give it away?

Edited February 11, 2012 by TheHeadCapper

[darthtoph]

Newsflash; the companion idea is far from innovative and has been done in multiple MMOs in the past. Edited February 11, 2012 by darthtoph

[Aaluria]

I realize that a lot of people say that this game is fine following the current MMO recipe, and that if you don't like the way the game is, you're either a wow fanboy or have just grown tired of the genre.

 

I disagree.

 

The reason MMO's are the way they are is because it's easy to use other peoples ideas, and just give them a new look. I.e raiding for purples, pvping in battlegrounds for credits to buy more gear, crafting gear and weapons and potions... The game design is fundamentally sound, but why not branch out from that and actually add something different and fresh?

 

I'm not game designer. I took a couple 3dsmax classes and 3d animation classes but I'm a gamer, not a programmer. That being said, given 20 minutes, I can come up with 20 ideas for the future of MMO's, that would make current MMO's a leading indicator towards what the genre is going to be and not a lagging indicator of stale games born late in a dying genre from the past.

 

Why doesn't anyone want to be the ones that produce next groundbreaking (i'd say gamechanging but that's a bit too cliche even for me) product that forever changes the way games are played? All it takes is a bit of imagination.

 

My suggestions are:

 

Space pvp:

--free flying ships (ability buttons m1,m2,space (radar jam 5s 1min cd makes missiles not able to target you, or gets rid of missiles that are already fired)1,2 and that's it. You wouldnt need 50 different abilities. Keep it simple, but give more control over the spacecraft.

 

--Space pvp could be either instanced zones of space where you just fly around and blow up other ships (like a land pvp game, just in the air) or complete objectives like escort or zone capture or whatever, or it could be the solar system idea that I outline below, and since the current space stuff is kinda fun, you could leave it, and just add more missions. That would give 3 different options for people to be able to enjoy space. As it stands, it's rather boring, and really really simple.

 

--The instanced space PVP (space only, no ground interaction) could be focused towards a goal as well. If you own certain sectors of space your resupply ships can get back and forth faster, which could in turn lead to your companions being able to complete missions faster.

 

PVP Solar Systems:

--PVP solar systems that have 5 planets. Each planet is a level range and only available to players in that level bracket (it would make people of all levels actually able to help in the "cause" and make it useful for all levels to pvp). Open land maps where you would fight over towers or buildings. Once your team holds all towers you control the planet for an hour. When you control the planet, your faction gets the ability to send companions on special gathering quests for uber materials that you can use to make uber pvp gear, or ships, or walkers (I'll get to them) but my point is that you get a bonus that actually makes it worth the time and effort in taking the planet. If your faction controls all the planets at once, they align and you get uber UBER quests for super duper uber mats that are used for even better stuff. Each level planet would give rewards that are equivalent to the level required.

 

This is where the fun begins. The planets are open worlds. Big open worlds. You could put in walkers, speeders, and even have the people in spaceships (in the air above you) able to kill the walkers since they'd squish you. AA guns... The possibilities are endless. literally. One of the most fun times I've ever had gaming was in UO. Being in a group of people that roam around looking for enemies, and once you found some, the battles were huge. The most fun part (for me) of Warhammer was roving the countryside with a group of dudes and taking castles and killing massive amounts of people. The problem Warhammer ran into was that the rewards weren't great.

 

Put limits on the zones so that all positions are useful. If you have something you built/bought like a speeder/walker/spaceship/mobile AA/jeeps whatever and that position wasnt full, you could "commit" your vehicle to the battle, and it acts like a consumable and is removed from your inventory. Then you enter the zone in your vehicle and go fight. If your vehicle is destroyed you lose it. If it isn't, it reappears in your inventory upon leaving the planet. But holding the zones gives you the opportunity to get materials (or even just parts) for the ships so you could replace your vehicle if it's destroyed. I think this would be a blast.

 

Crafting:

--special missions for your companion that you take part in would be cool. Like an instance for you and your companion. It would give you better loot, but would still be based around your gathering, so it could have chests or something that you have to open in order and at the end you get mats, or something.

 

--pod racers: I mean really... The races on Tatooine have to be implemented. Honestly, I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, but that race scene was awesome, and I think it would be a really fun, and different addition to an MMO. So with the system I talked about above and the rewards you could get from holding planets and entire systems, you could implement "mechanic" or "fabricator" crafting systems. Mechanics make vehicle upgrades, and fabricators make the vehicle itself. New gathering for the vehicles could be stripping or even just use slicing and salvaging.

 

I've canceled my account. As of right now, this game is nothing more than WOW with lightsabers. I'm sick of wow and all 5 of its clones. Maybe if this game breaks free from the shackles of the WOW shadow and adds something new and exciting I'll be back. But I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

While your ideas have merit, I see that some of them already exist in other games, such as eve, sto, even some DAoC. You have to realize for everyone person who shares your view of this game there are at least 10 others that are fine with this game. I like this game so I don't see it as dying or in trouble.

 

I see a brand new game in it's first two months fixing bugs and they have already added content. Sorry you are quitting, maybe you should give it a couple of months and come back and see what has changed. The difference between you and I are, I am willing to give them some time to add or fixes issues they know need fixing or adding to. But hey good luck with those suggestions.

[Cerion]

I'm not game designer. I took a couple 3dsmax classes and 3d animation classes but I'm a gamer, not a programmer. That being said, given 20 minutes, I can come up with 20 ideas for the future of MMO's, that would make current MMO's a leading indicator towards what the genre is going to be and not a lagging indicator of stale games born late in a dying genre from the past.

 

Why doesn't anyone want to be the ones that produce next groundbreaking (i'd say gamechanging but that's a bit too cliche even for me) product that forever changes the way games are played? All it takes is a bit of imagination.

 

My suggestions are:

 

a bunch of re-hashed ideas, lol

 

.

 

I find it ironic how you rail against supposed lack of innovation in SWTOR, and then proceed to offer zero innovative ideas, lol. Now I'm sure YOU think they're innovative...we often think we're more brilliant than we truly are...but nothing you've suggested is new. I've seen it all in other MMOs.

 

So what's that about innovation again?

 

The only true innovation you'll find will be with Indie games, where they can afford to take the losses associated with the risk. Want innovation? Try Minecraft.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Cerion

[GOCOLTS]

 

so...umm yea stop with the warhammer stuff. sorry..TOR is not gonna fail no matter how much you want it to

 

The irony is so... ironic. I remember a million posts/threads where people said the same thing about warhammer. Isn't it ironic? Don't you think?

[TheHeadCapper]

Newsflash; the companion idea is far from innovative and has been done in multiple MMOs in the past.

 

I'm trying to think of an MMO that was actually innovative, Eve maybe is the closest. Most of the stuff in MMO's was around way back in the Ultima/Bards Tale/kings Quest days.

 

Typically people who think an MMO is innovative just haven't played what it was based off of.

[TheHeadCapper]

The irony is so... ironic. I remember a million posts/threads where people said the same thing about warhammer. Isn't it ironic? Don't you think?

 

Same thing was said about WoW.....and just about every other game. It's easy to cherry pick failed games where people said that, but t hey say that about everything which you seem to not realize or are ignoring on purpose.

[Mannic]

Big corporations, like EA and Activision, are where innovation goes to die.

[GOCOLTS]

I find it ironic how you rail against supposed lack of innovation in SWTOR, and then proceed to offer zero innovative ideas, lol. Now I'm sure YOU think they're innovative...we often think we're more brilliant than we truly are...but nothing you've suggested is new. I've seen it all in other MMOs.

 

So what's that about innovation again?

 

The only true innovation you'll find will be with Indie games, where they can afford to take the losses associated with the risk. Want innovation? Try Minecraft.

 

What MMO has pvp where you actually participate in a real war for a purpose?

 

Not wow. You do bg's for honor to get more purples. YAY!

Not Rift. You do bg's for honor to get more purples. YAY!

Not Warhammer, entirely. Yes, you ride around in circles taking castles, but that's pretty much it.

Not SWTOR. You do bg's for honor to get more purples. YAY!

Conan? Is that even still up?

Aion? Same as Conan.

My ideas are different because they're oriented around PVP actually mattering. Doing something that gets you something you can't get otherwise. Also, large scale ground warfare with air combat and craftable vehicles? What game has that?

 

This game needs something along the lines of my ideas. Something that is going to make it obviously NOT wow with light sabers. So far... That's all this is. It's not even a good wow clone.

[GOCOLTS]

Same thing was said about WoW.....and just about every other game. It's easy to cherry pick failed games where people said that, but t hey say that about everything which you seem to not realize or are ignoring on purpose.

 

I'm pretty sure that people didn't say wow would fail within its first 2 months. The reason was, that **** was new and different. Most people were on the forums talking about how they can't get into the game, and the 5,000 queues, and the 5,000 ping... I never saw a "this game is fail, and it's exactly like (insert game name here)." which is what you get from every MMO since.

[Cerion]

I'm trying to think of an MMO that was actually innovative, Eve maybe is the closest. Most of the stuff in MMO's was around way back in the Ultima/Bards Tale/kings Quest days.

 

Typically people who think an MMO is innovative just haven't played what it was based off of.

 

Actually, there are a few that are innovative. Look at Second Life. Truly innovative MMOG. Also, as you mention, EVE in its day was innovative. Not so much now.

 

Asheron's Call, in its day, had innovative UI that has set the standard for others to this day.

 

More currently, Minecraft with multiplayer servers offers one of the most innovative MMO experiences to date. Servers can be customized. Players can fully interact with world. A world size that's pretty much unprecedented for MMOs (8xEarth if I recall correctly).

Edited February 11, 2012 by Cerion

[Cerion]

What MMO has pvp where you actually participate in a real war for a purpose?

 

Not wow. You do bg's for honor to get more purples. YAY!

Not Rift. You do bg's for honor to get more purples. YAY!

Not Warhammer, entirely. Yes, you ride around in circles taking castles, but that's pretty much it.

Not SWTOR. You do bg's for honor to get more purples. YAY!

Conan? Is that even still up?

Aion? Same as Conan.

My ideas are different because they're oriented around PVP actually mattering. Doing something that gets you something you can't get otherwise. Also, large scale ground warfare with air combat and craftable vehicles? What game has that?

 

This game needs something along the lines of my ideas. Something that is going to make it obviously NOT wow with light sabers. So far... That's all this is. It's not even a good wow clone.

 

Expand your horizons dude. World War II Online has had PvP that matters since last decade, haha. They have large scale ground warfare with air combat. It's the most challenging PvP in any MMO ever. Fight across 1/2 scale Western Europe. Fun times.

 

Craftable Vehicles were in SWG. Craftable Ships are in EVE Online, with large scale combat I might add.

 

Nothing new here. Sorry.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Cerion

[Halvos]

What MMO has pvp where you actually participate in a real war for a purpose?

 

PlanetSide, just to name one.

 

As people pointed out, your idea aren't really innovative, but that's not a bad thing. It's the sort of stuff they should be revisiting and tweaking. Thing is, if you want innovation in a game, it's certainly not going to come from this game. The designers keep proving time and time again they have no idea how to make an MMO.

[Dayfax]

@OP: good gaw, I wish you were a designer because the stuff you're talking about sounds like a helluva lot of fun. Fantastic imagination.

 

In real world terms, it's probably too ambitious. Parts of your post sound like the whole of Battlefront, but instanced, inside an existing MMO.

 

It'd be a thing of beauty but I don't know any developer that could pull it off well, because stuff like the ends up being far outside any one developer's comfort zone (note how Bioware has implemented bland space combat into all of its sci fi titles, or how badly Blizzard sucks at implementing vehicle combat in its MMO. Likewise I'd never expect Rockstar to implement a Call of Duty style multiplayer inside a Grand Theft Auto title).

 

To put it another way -- all developers are good at one thing, or a few things, but I wouldn't expect them to be good at all things.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Dayfax

[Kerraii]

I realize that a lot of people say that this game is fine following the current MMO recipe, and that if you don't like the way the game is, you're either a wow fanboy or have just grown tired of the genre.

 

I disagree.

 

The reason MMO's are the way they are is because it's easy to use other peoples ideas, and just give them a new look. I.e raiding for purples, pvping in battlegrounds for credits to buy more gear, crafting gear and weapons and potions... The game design is fundamentally sound, but why not branch out from that and actually add something different and fresh?

 

I'm not game designer. I took a couple 3dsmax classes and 3d animation classes but I'm a gamer, not a programmer. That being said, given 20 minutes, I can come up with 20 ideas for the future of MMO's, that would make current MMO's a leading indicator towards what the genre is going to be and not a lagging indicator of stale games born late in a dying genre from the past.

 

Why doesn't anyone want to be the ones that produce next groundbreaking (i'd say gamechanging but that's a bit too cliche even for me) product that forever changes the way games are played? All it takes is a bit of imagination.

 

My suggestions are:

 

Space pvp:

--free flying ships (ability buttons m1,m2,space (radar jam 5s 1min cd makes missiles not able to target you, or gets rid of missiles that are already fired)1,2 and that's it. You wouldnt need 50 different abilities. Keep it simple, but give more control over the spacecraft.

 

--Space pvp could be either instanced zones of space where you just fly around and blow up other ships (like a land pvp game, just in the air) or complete objectives like escort or zone capture or whatever, or it could be the solar system idea that I outline below, and since the current space stuff is kinda fun, you could leave it, and just add more missions. That would give 3 different options for people to be able to enjoy space. As it stands, it's rather boring, and really really simple.

 

--The instanced space PVP (space only, no ground interaction) could be focused towards a goal as well. If you own certain sectors of space your resupply ships can get back and forth faster, which could in turn lead to your companions being able to complete missions faster.

 

PVP Solar Systems:

--PVP solar systems that have 5 planets. Each planet is a level range and only available to players in that level bracket (it would make people of all levels actually able to help in the "cause" and make it useful for all levels to pvp). Open land maps where you would fight over towers or buildings. Once your team holds all towers you control the planet for an hour. When you control the planet, your faction gets the ability to send companions on special gathering quests for uber materials that you can use to make uber pvp gear, or ships, or walkers (I'll get to them) but my point is that you get a bonus that actually makes it worth the time and effort in taking the planet. If your faction controls all the planets at once, they align and you get uber UBER quests for super duper uber mats that are used for even better stuff. Each level planet would give rewards that are equivalent to the level required.

 

This is where the fun begins. The planets are open worlds. Big open worlds. You could put in walkers, speeders, and even have the people in spaceships (in the air above you) able to kill the walkers since they'd squish you. AA guns... The possibilities are endless. literally. One of the most fun times I've ever had gaming was in UO. Being in a group of people that roam around looking for enemies, and once you found some, the battles were huge. The most fun part (for me) of Warhammer was roving the countryside with a group of dudes and taking castles and killing massive amounts of people. The problem Warhammer ran into was that the rewards weren't great.

 

Put limits on the zones so that all positions are useful. If you have something you built/bought like a speeder/walker/spaceship/mobile AA/jeeps whatever and that position wasnt full, you could "commit" your vehicle to the battle, and it acts like a consumable and is removed from your inventory. Then you enter the zone in your vehicle and go fight. If your vehicle is destroyed you lose it. If it isn't, it reappears in your inventory upon leaving the planet. But holding the zones gives you the opportunity to get materials (or even just parts) for the ships so you could replace your vehicle if it's destroyed. I think this would be a blast.

 

Crafting:

--special missions for your companion that you take part in would be cool. Like an instance for you and your companion. It would give you better loot, but would still be based around your gathering, so it could have chests or something that you have to open in order and at the end you get mats, or something.

 

--pod racers: I mean really... The races on Tatooine have to be implemented. Honestly, I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, but that race scene was awesome, and I think it would be a really fun, and different addition to an MMO. So with the system I talked about above and the rewards you could get from holding planets and entire systems, you could implement "mechanic" or "fabricator" crafting systems. Mechanics make vehicle upgrades, and fabricators make the vehicle itself. New gathering for the vehicles could be stripping or even just use slicing and salvaging.

 

I've canceled my account. As of right now, this game is nothing more than WOW with lightsabers. I'm sick of wow and all 5 of its clones. Maybe if this game breaks free from the shackles of the WOW shadow and adds something new and exciting I'll be back. But I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

 

What you have explained is a little known MMO that was called Earth and Beyond. That game and EvE came out about the same time. Eve has held on longer because the PvP seemed to be better.

 

You thoughts are sound for a space Open World PvP game... oh wait that is what Star Trek Online is supposed to be.

 

Your vison of the "Next Gen" MMO has already been thought out.

 

A true Next Gen MMO would revert back to ideas that were in the past.

 

Random generating instancing. Meaning that when you zone into an instance the AI rolls the dice to see what you will be encountering in that instance. be it a totally new instance or random populations into a static instance.

 

Example. Why is it that the main Boss is at the end of an instance? Well that's because it has always been that way. Why can't that boss roam the entire instance and all of a sudden show up in the middle or beginning or at the end?

Why does it always have to be the same Boss?

 

I mention EQ if for only because there was a Boss level 45 Griffon that flew through out a level 6-12 zone. Why? no one could kill it, yet it was there to be had when higher levels wanted to come back and do so. A free roaming Boss in a zone ( op[en world instance ).

EQ also designed mini group dungeons in various themed zones. A froup would zone into one of these and a roll of the die was made to see which version of the three styles was going to be available... That was back in 2000. Old gaming...no other company has used this concept since... why?

 

The ideas are there. The designs are there. Yet no company has made the move to do it.

 

Reason? Money and doubt. One forces the other.

[Dekkau]

Ok I played WoW for way too many years to admit and still do .. I have like ten characters at cap and another ten at 60+... An addict I guess. I play Rift and have 11 character at 50. I have my own massive science vessel in STO and play that also, but not as much as Rift. Rift is a brilliant game I gotta say. As for SWToR, I am well impressed, its very very good. Its different again. Cus I actually feel the character I am playing has a personality and I am mindful not to conflict with the growth of that personality. Sure my characters in WoW and Rift have kinda personalities, but only cus I gave them the personality. But in SWToR the character feels like someone I care for. And having watched the Star Wars films I feel I owe a duty to become the noble Jedi that I play. Great fun, and feels like I am living an epic saga.

 

So to the OP I guess your missing the point of the game. Its more Final Fantasy than World of Warcraft. And more story book than gear chasing. I really am enjoying playing this game and really do look forward to the game growing. Its going to become a really popular game in time and I'll be following it all allong the way.

 

Saying that I'm levelling another Shadow Priest in WoW and just hit 41 in Moonshade with my Cleric in Rift. I bought Final Fantasy XIII-2 which I will play tomorrow and still play FIFA and Uncharted 3. Thing is why just limit yourself to one game. I have subbed for three months here and I'll carry on playing till I get all the various classes levelled. The game is sufficiently deep to keep me interested and loving it to death at the moment. Just a shame I have to go to work every day.

 

A big thankyou to the creators and well worth the money. And really guys don't be put off by the MMO know it alls.. I have seen this type of player. They stand around all night in Stormwind waiting to group and have little concept of immersion in any game. They PUG their way through by boosting and would hit the insta-85 button if they could and then still complain there wasn't anything for them to do.

 

Anyway I'm off to Thedeor Fields in Rift now to see if I can pop the Horror Skin for my new Rogue and then I have some unfinished business in SWToR for my Jedi to sort out.

 

Gaming... Classic fun. And don't forget its not a way of life.. its entertainment. And for all you WoW guys.. Seriously .. you are not your avatar. You're just a person who plays a game. ... So funny.

[Cerion]

@OP: good gaw, I wish you were a designer because the stuff you're talking about sounds like a helluva lot of fun. Fantastic imagination.

 

In real world terms, it's probably too ambitious. Parts of your post sound like the whole of Battlefront, but instanced, inside an existing MMO.

 

It'd be a thing of beauty but I don't know any developer that could pull it off well, because stuff like the ends up being far outside any one developer's comfort zone (note how Bioware has implemented bland space combat into all of its sci fi titles, or how badly Blizzard sucks at implementing vehicle combat in its MMO. Likewise I'd never expect Rockstar to implement a Call of Duty style multiplayer inside a Grand Theft Auto title).

 

To put it another way -- all developers are good at one thing, or a few things, but I wouldn't expect them to be good at all things.

 

haha, dude..nothing he's suggested is new. I guess if you've never read Harry Potter, and then proceed to read a book about a school for wizards, you might think the author has a brilliant imagination.

 

This whole 'innovation' meme is tired. No AAA MMO is going to risk tens of millions of dollars on innovation that might fail. Yes. Innovation isn't always (not by a long shot) successful. I can name dozens of innovative ideas that go nowhere.

[SnakeBites]

Bioware have been very innovative with SWTOR.

 

They created a singleplayer railroad buggy experience that looks & feels like it was made in 2004 with some multiplayer features tacked on & able to charge people monthly for it.

[DigitalDreamz]

haha, dude..nothing he's suggested is new. I guess if you've never read Harry Potter, and then proceed to read a book about a school for wizards, you might think the author has a brilliant imagination.

 

This whole 'innovation' meme is tired. No AAA MMO is going to risk tens of millions of dollars on innovation that might fail. Yes. Innovation isn't always (not by a long shot) successful. I can name dozens of innovative ideas that go nowhere.

 

Well then if AAA titles offer no innovation and you yourself admit this game is not innovative what incentive do gamers have to keep playing this game? I mean as you have pointed out this game does what other games have already done. Why pay for this one then?

[Dayfax]

haha, dude..nothing he's suggested is new. I guess if you've never read Harry Potter, and then proceed to read a book about a school for wizards, you might think the author has a brilliant imagination.

 

This whole 'innovation' meme is tired. No AAA MMO is going to risk tens of millions of dollars on innovation that might fail. Yes. Innovation isn't always (not by a long shot) successful. I can name dozens of innovative ideas that go nowhere.

 

You're right, I don't have the breadth of experience with some of the MMO titles people are citing.

 

But, afaik, nobody has attempted, much less pulled off, the kind of thing the OP is talking about in a AAA title with a million plus subscribers. So from that angle, I'm not sure were the derision is coming from.

 

As far as innovation in a commercial space --- well that doesn't mean creating something wholy new, either. Look at Apple. Every single product they've brought to market has obvious influences, if you know the industry. But they're still innovative because they combined disparate parts into a single consumer product.

 

Hell, look at Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark. Not new -- because all of this content had been "done before," if you knew where to look -- but still revolutionary.

 

Are you guys telling me & the OP that if Bioware actually pulled any of this stuff off your honest reaction would be "Pfffft, it's been done" and not "Flock yeah! MMO space battles!"? Seriously?

[Cerion]

Well then if AAA titles offer no innovation and you yourself admit this game is not innovative what incentive do gamers have to keep playing this game? I mean as you have pointed out this game does what other games have already done. Why pay for this one then?

 

 

hmmm, aside from NOT admitting anything about this game, let me ask you a question. Does your purchase of morning cereal depend on its innovation? How about your car?

 

Conversely, are you playing Minecraft? One of the most innovative games to appear on the market in years? Do you ride around on one of those two-wheeled platform thingies that I can't even remember the name of right now?

 

Yes. Innovation can be good. But also being one of the best at what you do can be attractive as well. Toyota is a good example of this. Nothing terrible innovative (barring Prius), but built better than many other cars.

 

SWTOR has incorporated a lot of ideas from other games, and made a pretty solid game of the aggregate. That CAN BE ENOUGH.

 

 

Edit: It's called a Segway, I believe. Innovation ftl!! lol.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Cerion

[Cerion]

You're right, I don't have the breadth of experience with some of the MMO titles people are citing.

 

But, afaik, nobody has attempted, much less pulled off, the kind of thing the OP is talking about in a AAA title with a million plus subscribers. So from that angle, I'm not sure were the derision is coming from.

 

As far as innovation in a commercial space --- well that doesn't mean creating something wholy new, either. Look at Apple. Every single product they've brought to market has obvious influences, if you know the industry. But they're still innovative because they combined disparate parts into a single consumer product.

 

Hell, look at Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark. Not new -- because all of this content had been "done before," if you knew where to look -- but still revolutionary.

 

Are you guys telling me & the OP that if Bioware actually pulled any of this stuff off your honest reaction would be "Pfffft, it's been done" and not "Flock yeah! MMO space battles!"? Seriously?

 

No. The problem here is the pipe dream that a AAA title WILL be innovative. Truly innovative. It won't be. Ever. There's too much investment at risk, too many families of the company employees who would like to keep their jobs.

 

To believe otherwise is to fundamentally misunderstand the nature of innovation and where it comes from. You yourself stated Apple doesn't really do much true innovation, and I agree.

 

The ideas the OP had are not innovative. Had he presented his thesis in the form of "Here are some ideas from other MMOs that I think SWTOR could adopt", then maybe he'd have a point. But to lambast SWTOR for not being innovative whilst then listing decidedly un-original, previously implemented ideas is ironic at best.

[Halvos]

SWTOR has incorporated a lot of ideas from other games, and made a pretty solid game of the aggregate. That CAN BE ENOUGH.

 

I was with you until this point. Innovation or not, games need to evolve. Even if that means revisiting older ideas and tweaking them. What BioWare did was take many standard ideas and actually backtrack. I'm not going to get into everything they did since it's been said thousands of times already, but they really took a few steps back with this game.

 

Take a look at a few of the MMOs that are likely going to be released later this year. Those aren't anything radically insane, but they do each come with little differences from what the current market is used to. That's the kind of thing people expect from this genre.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Halvos