setern Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Why they don't have premade 50's on the ptr in beyond me. Also, why should I go trough the hassle of dl'ing a 20gb client and leveling a char to 50 to test bw/ea's game for free in a game I pay to play? If they actualy make testing a bit more accessable im sure a good deal of people will be on the ptr. But untill then all after patch whine is well deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic_Forge Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm just surprised that the devs AND public testers didn't find such a glaring issue before the live release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeat Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm just surprised that the devs AND public testers didn't find such a glaring issue before the live release. At least one did and was ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 STO had better communication than this. this. another thing: cryptic offers incentives to actually TEST on the PTS (titles, items, etc for the live account) AND you can chat directly with a dev on the test server. so OP, you ask for constructive comments yet you sound like a fanboy. not sure if troll or serious.. let's make a deal: you level a char to 50 on the PTS, and then come back and tell us how your testing experience was. how about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Sorry...But this guild summit seems like a complete joke. It's PR, nothing more nothing less. stuff like that works in eve, because it's a different kind of game. what should the guild summit actually improve (that's not already mentioned dozens of times here, on the internet in general AND probably the messages when people cancel subs?). Edited February 9, 2012 by Graburr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulViolence Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 How are we supposed to test 50 content when we can't get copy's or premade characters? Every MMO has a way for you to get Mac level characters for testing....oh other than ToR. Literally none of the stuff is testable unless you want to spend hours leveling a character on the test server. Except the CD change which we all said was fail and terrible, but they pushed it live. This. Honestly the amount of fail in this game has hit such a high level that i'm shocked that this game was allowed to get released in it's current state, it is a bit better than it was a month ago but it's still really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Ironic that the OP is lecturing us all to go to the test server when he's OBVIOUSLY NEVER BEEN THERE HIMSELF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorusboy Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Let's back up here a second. I have seen and have communicated concerns to devs or GMs through in-game ticket and have seen direct response in patches down the line. The changes are not instantaneous, nor do I expect them to be. You act like downloading a client is some big time sink or hassle but it is a click and an install. Does their testing process need to be improved, yea!! I think I and you all have said premades are needed and I have suggested other things like targeted testing. You all brought up an incentive system from STO that I completely forgot about. That would be awesome. Some sort of vanity piece, title, or other in-game perk for doing testing tasks assigned to you through an in game piece of UI would be an awesome way to incentivize testing. I think that we all know that they need the premades so get off that horse. I am a software developer by trade and work in the simulation as well as game industries. I am not a BW fanboy but I understand the time and pressures of their job and despite what people think, the forums are read, that's what CM's do. They flag posts for developers to look at. Yes there will be triage that needs to happen and some stuff may fall through the cracks but to make it out like they just don't care is naive for this business model. Just because EA is the publisher, much like Activision is Blizzard's, does not mean that QA gets to be 1000 dedicated testers. To replicate the types of situations that players are experiencing in some places requires massive amounts of people be all in an area together from both factions and legit playing the game. QA will have a hard time replicating those sorts of situations. To those who say I don't do PTR, please find another place to QQ and criticize. I didn't do this last one because of my own work schedule but to say wontonly and blankly that under no circumstances do they consider the community's feedback is asinine. I want this game to be successful so lets get some constructive suggestions. What, aside from monetary compensation, would get you interested in PTR? How would you change the current system aside from premades and PTR (which both incidentally have their own sets of database concerns to deal with and would require a front end on the website to setup and register an account for PTR and then also get the characters automatically and reliably generated on the PTR with the correct gear etc.)? Changes take time but complaining doesn't help, suggestions do and who knows what dev or CM will read it and flag it down for production, code, design, or art to look at? I look forward to seeing what we as a community can come up with to improve the PTR system with Bioware's help Ty'kis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 How are we supposed to test 50 content when we can't get copy's or premade characters? Every MMO has a way for you to get Mac level characters for testing....oh other than ToR. If you follow devtracker, then you would know that they are working on character transfer. Now, they could have not released a test server until the had character transfer working, but then they would just get all kinds of hate for not having a test server. [the customer base is Biowares Kobyashi Maru] Until then, bang out a level 50 over on PTS. Most of the whiners banged out 50s on live servers and then bragged about how easy it is to do. And I'm sure some power guild could have a 20 man crew powerleveled to 50 right ricky-tic quick on the PTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This. Honestly the amount of fail in this game has hit such a high level that i'm shocked that this game was allowed to get released in it's current state, it is a bit better than it was a month ago but it's still really bad. So, you gonna hate-troll every thread tonight??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulViolence Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) So, you gonna hate-troll every thread tonight??? I'm just being honest, if you don't like it that's your problem. Edited February 9, 2012 by PeacefulViolence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knewt Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 So, let's look at some of your points here. You act like downloading a client is some big time sink or hassle but it is a click and an install. It is a huge time sink and Bioware doesn't pay for my bandwidth. I am a software developer by trade and work in the simulation as well as game industries. I am not a BW fanboy but I understand the time and pressures of their job and despite what people think, the forums are read, that's what CM's do. They flag posts for developers to look at. Yes there will be triage that needs to happen and some stuff may fall through the cracks but to make it out like they just don't care is naive for this business model. Just because EA is the publisher, much like Activision is Blizzard's, does not mean that QA gets to be 1000 dedicated testers. To replicate the types of situations that players are experiencing in some places requires massive amounts of people be all in an area together from both factions and legit playing the game. QA will have a hard time replicating those sorts of situations. To those who say I don't do PTR, please find another place to QQ and criticize. I didn't do this last one because of my own work schedule but to say wontonly and blankly that under no circumstances do they consider the community's feedback is asinine. Bioware has consistently shown a lack of proper QA protocols. The first bug in Ilum 1.1 (camping in the opposing side's base) should have been caught by their internal QA department. In fact, most of the bugs/nerfs people are really upset about (like Ilum, Slicing, Biochem and Warzones) are things that should have been seen in testing. In beta, everyone knew slicing was OP. Bioware still released it and had to nerf it. Not getting credit for kills in Ilum should have been handled in their testing scripts. I look forward to seeing what we as a community can come up with to improve the PTR system with Bioware's help It is not my job to improve their PTS system (they don't call it PTR). I pay them to produce a quality product. So far, they've shown a track record for introducing massive, game breaking bugs in their haste to fix other game breaking bugs. This is not acceptable and should not be tolerated by consumers. Even if they had a proper PTS system setup, they are patching faster than reliable feedback can be formulated on a PTS. It's time for Bioware to grow as a development studio and slow down their patching if they want more user testing on the PTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeat Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I look forward to seeing what we as a community can come up with to improve the PTR system with Bioware's help Ty'kis How about a 1 for 1 exchange of time. I test for one hour and I get credited for one hours worth of uncharged play? Anything short of that and I'd feel I'm being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakamp Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If no feedback is given then obviously they will launch with what they pushed to PTR. There are people max level on on that server. In the case of UI it does not take long for anybody to notice. because the UI is better than previous version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If you follow devtracker, then you would know that they are working on character transfer. Now, they could have not released a test server until the had character transfer working, but then they would just get all kinds of hate for not having a test server. [the customer base is Biowares Kobyashi Maru] Until then, bang out a level 50 over on PTS. Most of the whiners banged out 50s on live servers and then bragged about how easy it is to do. And I'm sure some power guild could have a 20 man crew powerleveled to 50 right ricky-tic quick on the PTS. I love you to death but... really? Is there really NO LIMIT to what you will defend them on? They are WORKING on a character transfer? Is there any MMO in the past. . . what, six , seven years...that did not offer this? Asking the community to level up a 50, which will just be wiped, then do it again, is simply not even remotely feasible .. or logical .. or SANE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The changes are not instantaneous, nor do I expect them to be. ... You act like downloading a client is some big time sink or hassle but it is a click and an install. .. Just because EA is the publisher, much like Activision is Blizzard's, does not mean that QA gets to be 1000 dedicated testers. To replicate the types of situations that players are experiencing in some places requires massive amounts of people be all in an area together from both factions and legit playing the game. QA will have a hard time replicating those sorts of situations. How would you change the current system aside from premades and PTR (which both incidentally have their own sets of database concerns to deal with and would require a front end on the website to setup and register an account for PTR and then also get the characters automatically and reliably generated on the PTR with the correct gear etc.)? Changes take time but complaining doesn't help, suggestions do and who knows what dev or CM will read it and flag it down for production, code, design, or art to look at? no one does. but if stuff gets unfixed to a long time (there are still bugs that were apparent in beta), people get cranky. not to mention if the "fix" is a bandaid or completely unrelated stuff gets "improved" - new cooldown animation? seriously? there are not more pressing UI issues? also, don't forget that not everybody has unlimited bandwidth/downloads. it's hard to explain people why they have to redownload the client when the majority of the assets are already on the harddrive. as for testers, I don't care how many they have. EA/bioware wanted to play in the big leagues, so they have act accordingly. I pay for a product and since I pay the same as for other games, I expect the game/service to be comparable. else there is no reason to give my money to a competitor - that's how the market works. I won't say "uuuhh, poor devs and publishers, I'm sooo sorry you sell me faulty stuff; here, take some more of my money because I like you so much". they want money, they have to work for it. if they don't, or even give the perception they don't give a damn, they earn complains. it's that simple really. there are other devs who do less, but at least left the impression they care. and the biggest irk is this: with all their experienced people they have, they still make the same stupid decisions someone would do if they never worked on MMOs before. even worse, they don't seem to be able to a) think outside the box and/or b) simply look what was done in the past and reproduce it. point in case: PTR and high level testing put an npc in that gives you a quest which levels you to 50, put a merchant in that gives you the gear - voila, you have a char to test highlevel content without big hassle. is it the best solution? no. is a good solution for the short term? yes. it would easily give them the numbers they need for metrics/stability tests (that's all a PTS is supposed to do anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I love you to death but... really? Is there really NO LIMIT to what you will defend them on? They are WORKING on a character transfer? Is there any MMO in the past. . . what, six , seven years...that did not offer this? Asking the community to level up a 50, which will just be wiped, then do it again, is simply not even remotely feasible .. or logical .. or SANE. I'm not defending them, I am simply saying that they have announced they are working on character transfers. If I recall correctly, they did not have this initially on Rift either (they were having funky bugs with it for some reason). Can't recall on WoW, it was so long ago. I would not level a 50 on the test server, I was just snarking the power players who whine about how easy it is to level cap in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If I recall correctly, they did not have this initially on Rift either (they were having funky bugs with it for some reason). rift had leveling npcs and scheduled testing sessions with devs/cm. they also offer transfers for free, and not as another way to monetize (as blizzard does). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorusboy Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 PTR is just force of habit. PTS, so noted. As for the vendors and levels and such, this game is so unlike rift or anything else that came before it in terms of the prereqs for story as a gating mechanism for levelling, I don't know that one quest to rule them all would work but then again, if it just executes a script to get the necessary stuff in place, it could work. The problem with these systems is that it can leave other things untested that should be. Any game of this magnitude is a bear to retest. That said, even with a testing procedure in place, it can become easy to not test some things that have simply always worked. I am not saying it is right but it does happen. As for the bandwidth argument, I can understand it from that perspective. I know that a streamlining of this process will occur much as it did late in the beta but redownloading the client does offer some advantages in testing that a patch does not. Patches can introduce unknowns into an already complex process. Those patches also have to be tested before deployment and that is likely why they have the larger download available first and why a patch doesn't factor into their plans. Frankly, I enjoy the rapid patch deployment, even with some of the minor issues (and by minor I mean no crash bugs) that have come with them. On the whole, there is a lot to improve but it is a good move forward for the industry as a whole I think. Ty'kis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorusboy Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 I am also a big fan of scheduled testing, hence my early posts about emails or an in-game system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If I recall correctly, they did not have this initially on Rift either. RIFT doesn't count because RIFT blows. It took me a while to figure out that rule but by god I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbefrier Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 yeah really all those people complaining about having nothing to do because they hit the level cap and finished all the end game instances 30 minutes after the game was launched should go to the PTR and use that complaining to actually get something done!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 As for the vendors and levels and such, this game is so unlike rift or anything else that came before it in terms of the prereqs for story as a gating mechanism for levelling, ehhr... besides the voiced dialog and "story" (which is a handful of different quests with different requirements, but quests nonetheless), it is EXACTLY like wow/rift/etc. after you get your ship you can level to 50 just fine without any classquest. you don't need to finish you classquests to do pvp or enter an instance. and even then it's easy to implement 1 quests that gives you all the flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defiantlegacy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Practically everyones patience has run out with EAWare at this point. I know its BWs first MMO but i seriously didnt expect it to be thrown together so wretchedly. Roll on Guild Wars 2 ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunzo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 OP you have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, let's all go level up 1-50 in PTR so we can tell Bioware their changes suck and we don't want them. Oh what's that? They don't care, they release it anyway. (waits for this thread to be closed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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