Sages and Sorcerors, an intelligent discussion.

[Grubfist]

Here is some information on Sages that I thought the forum community ought to know whilst they discuss the relative power levels of sages versus other classes. I do not know the names of the Sorceror equivalents, but I know their lightning does Energy damage whenever Sages do Kinetic. Both are mitigated by armor.

 

Attacks:

 

Weaken Mind: No cooldown. 15-second DoT, talented 21-second. Internal damage (NOT mitigated by armor). Ticks every 3 seconds. Cleansable (Force)

 

Mind Crush: 15-second cooldown. Deals initial damage and adds a 6-second (can be talented to 8-second in Tier 5 Balance) DoT that ticks every second. Kinetic Damage (mitigated by armor). Cleansable (Force)

 

Disturbance: No cooldown. Casted single-target spell. Base cast time is 1.5 seconds. Kinetic damage (mitigated by armor).

 

Telekinetic Throw: 6-second cooldown. Talented to no cooldown in Tier 3 Balance tree. 3-second channel that deals damage instantly and once every second after (4 ticks). Kinetic Damage (mitigated by armor). This ability also causes a slow on the target. This slow is cleansable (Physical). Cleansing this slow will prevent it from being re-applied for the rest of that channel. Tier 3 Telekinetics can spec into a proc that makes this spell channel and tick twice as fast.

 

Project: 6-second cooldown. Instant-cast that throws a rock at an enemy. Animation delay causes it to not hit QUITE instantly. Can be talented in tier 2 Balance to have a 45% chance to summon another rock that deals reduced damage. Kinetic damage (mitigated by armor).

 

Force In Balance (Balance spec tier 3 skill) 15-second cooldown. Instant-cast AOE that hits 3 enemies in its target area. Heals the caster for 1% per target hit. Later talents make the targets more susceptible to the caster's DoTs. Internal damage (NOT mitigated by armor)

 

Sever Force (Balance Spec end-point skill) 9-second cooldown. Instant cast DoT that immobilizes the target for 2 seconds when it lands and deals damage over 18 seconds. Internal damage (NOT mitigated by armor). Cleansable (Force).

 

Telekinetic Wave (Telekinetic Spec tier 3 skill) 6-second cooldown. 3-second cast time. Hits up to 5 targets. Can be talented to get instant-cast procs. Kinetic damage (mitigated by armor).

 

Turbulence (Telekinetic end-point skill) 9-second cooldown. 2-second base cast time. If its target is afflicted by Weaken Mind, it will always critically hit. Internal Damage (NOT mitigated by armor).

 

 

 

 

Defenses:

 

Force armor: 5-second cooldown (2-second when talented in tier-3 Seer (healer)) Absorbs damage. Can be talented for 20% increased strength in Tier-2 Telekinetics. Tier 4 Telekinetics can also talent it to incapacitate every enemy around them when it breaks. This lasts 3 seconds and breaks on damage. Cannot be cast on the same target more than once every 20 seconds.

 

Force Lift: Mez that lifts the target into the air, preventing all action. 1-minute cooldown (can be talented to 45 seconds in tier 3 Telekinetics). 2-second base cast time (Can be talented to insta-cast in tier 4 balance, which also causes it to stun when damage breaks it early). Cleansable (Force).

 

Force Wave: 20-second cooldown. AoE knockback. Deals very small amount of kinetic damage to enemies hit by it. Tier 3 telekinetics can spec into an immobilize on all the targets hit by this spell. This immobilize lasts 5 seconds, but will break on damage after 2 seconds. This immobilize is NOT cleansable.

 

Force Stun: 1-minute cooldown (Tier 2 balance can spec it down to 50-second cooldown). 4-second stun that deals a small amount of Kinetic damage as it lands.

 

Force Slow: 12-second cooldown. (Only Shadows can talent this ability for shorter cooldowns/longer durations. Sages cannot.) a 50% slow that lasts for 6 seconds and deals a small amount of kinetic damage upon application.

 

Force Speed: 30-second cooldown. Grants 100% movement speed for 2 seconds. Can be talented in tier 4/5? Telekinetics down to 20-second cooldown.

 

Restoration: 5-second cooldown. Cleanses up to 2 Force and/or Mental debuffs from a friendly player. Tier 4 Seers (healers) can spec into adding Physical debuffs to that list.

 

 

MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS:

-Have skills that benefit Telekinetic Throw higher up in their respective trees, so that a Hybrid spec cannot utilize all of these bonuses with one spec.

-Make the talented immobilize from Force Wave ALWAYS break on damage, as well as making it cleansable.

 

 

Hope you all can debate with a better understanding of what you're talking about now. Thanks.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Grubfist

[Airoper]

How dare you post relevant information on Forums!

[Grubfist]

How dare you post relevant information on Forums!

 

I am a terrible person and I apologize.

[shaidarlol]

you forgot to add some other abilities sorcerers have like

stealth

stealth stun

vanish

shield that absorbs 20k

20k dmg from 60 range

omniscience

ability to turn water into wine

god like powers

[Vewdo]

you forgot to add some other abilities sorcerers have like

stealth

stealth stun

vanish

shield that absorbs 20k

20k dmg from 60 range

omniscience

ability to turn water into wine

god like powers

 

 

Amen Brotha!

[Ruuprect]

you forgot to add some other abilities sorcerers have like

stealth

stealth stun

vanish

shield that absorbs 20k

20k dmg from 60 range

omniscience

ability to turn water into wine

god like powers

 

Ability to fartquake and wipe an entire WZ

heavy armor

lasers from eyes

blink from one spot to another

heal 20k in 1.4 seconds

stand in fire in huttball and walk out with full hp's

do 900k damage in full heal spec

do 900k healing in full dps spec

etc,etc

 

Edit: /sarcasm - for those that dont get it

Edited February 8, 2012 by Ruuprect

[Airoper]

? ive never seen a sorc/sage go invis only assassins & shadows

[Vewdo]

? ive never seen a sorc/sage go invis only assassins & shadows

 

 

 

Oh then your missing half the fun. There is nothing they can't do. They should rename the class and call them GameMasters!

[Ruuprect]

? ive never seen a sorc/sage go invis only assassins & shadows

 

#1 in the group that did not get it. Who will be #2

[Grubfist]

you forgot to add some other abilities sorcerers have like

stealth

stealth stun

vanish

shield that absorbs 20k

20k dmg from 60 range

omniscience

ability to turn water into wine

god like powers

 

I thought you were serious until I saw "omniscience"

[Ankhkharu]

Telekinetic Wave (Telekinetic Spec tier 3 skill) 6-second cooldown. 3-second cast time. Hits up to 5 targets. Can be talented to get instant-cast procs. Kinetic damage (mitigated by armor).

 

Force armor: 5-second cooldown (2-second when talented in tier-3 Seer (healer)) Absorbs damage. Can be talented for 20% increased strength in Tier-2 Telekinetics. Tier 4 Telekinetics can also talent it to incapacitate every enemy around them when it breaks. This lasts 3 seconds and breaks on damage. Cannot be cast on the same target more than once every 20 seconds.

 

Force Wave: 20-second cooldown. AoE knockback. Deals very small amount of kinetic damage to enemies hit by it. Tier 3 telekinetics can spec into an immobilize on all the targets hit by this spell. This immobilize lasts 5 seconds, but will break on damage after 2 seconds. This immobilize is NOT cleansable.

 

Here, I've highlighted the issues for you. And the main issue is, you can have all that + more without sacrificing anything.

[shaidarlol]

whilst i love your post grub, because it is informative, i can assure you 90% of the forum population just doesn't care or doesn't want to care, because what you've posted is all over the internet and anyone that actually wanted to improve on their pvp game play would've found said information instead of looking to a pvp forum where exaggeration is law to find answers.

 

with that said i most certainly hope some ignorance is dispelled in some people, but my guess is, within a day, this post will fall off the face of this earth, and absurdity will continue to ravage the pvp forums and my faith in humanity will be further destroyed.

[Savish]

I don't see force speed under defensive cooldowns, thats a pretty big one imo considering its extremely short CD. Edited February 8, 2012 by Savish

[shaidarlol]

Here, I've highlighted the issues for you. And the main issue is, you can have all that + more without sacrificing anything.

 

and here it is, why is it an issue? have you even tried to figure out how to avoid this? or counter it? my guess is no, what class do you play sir? because i can probably tell you how you can over come these blatant "issues"

[Grubfist]

I don't see force speed under defensive cooldowns, thats a pretty big one imo considering its extremely short CD.

 

My mistake. I added it now.

[ShizuXIII]

Here, I've highlighted the issues for you. And the main issue is, you can have all that + more without sacrificing anything.

 

^^ what he said.

 

That force wave (edited so the retard below maybe understands) garbage is completely ****ed up.

I never see less than 3 sorcerers per team, usually 4 and sometimes 5 or 6.

 

Imagine the fun for stealthers with 3-5 sorcerers spamming that garbage on cd.

 

Cooldown is way too short and range way too big, for a skill wich can literally disable an entire team.

 

Also, sprint on the "mage" class? Seriously? Combine it with force-wave, perma snares, endless CC and shield.

For a class wich is supposed to struggle a lot vs melee, you surely have a lot of tools to completely disable them.

Edited February 8, 2012 by ShizuXIII

[Ankhkharu]

and here it is, why is it an issue? have you even tried to figure out how to avoid this? or counter it? my guess is no, what class do you play sir? because i can probably tell you how you can over come these blatant "issues"

 

I know how to overcome those issues. ALL FORMS OF CC including physics based like knock back and root need to fill resolve bar so you can't be rooted then stunned then blinded and then slowed kk?

[shaidarlol]

^^ what he said.

 

That force push garbage is completely ****ed up.

I never see less than 3 sorcerers per team, usually 4 and sometimes 5 or 6.

 

Imagine the fun for stealthers with 3-5 sorcerers spamming that garbage on cd.

 

Cooldown is way too short and range way too big, for a skill wich can literally disable an entire team.

 

Also, sprint on the "mage" class? Seriously? Combine it with force-push, perma snares, endless CC and shield.

For a class wich is supposed to struggle a lot vs melee, you surely have a lot of tools to completely disable them.

 

force push is a warrior ability

the amount of sorcerers on a team is not a sign of class balance or imbalance

good thing perma snares exist for sorcerers along with ability to turn water into wine

[shaidarlol]

I know how to overcome those issues. ALL FORMS OF CC including physics based like knock back and root need to fill resolve bar so you can't be rooted then stunned then blinded and then slowed kk?

 

knockbacks affects resolve.

no root in game affects resolve, this isn't a sorcerer issue unlike what most people such as yourself believe.

 

and since you can overcome those issues what do you have the against the class other than you want an easier time?

[TetraCleric]

Also, sprint on the "mage" class? Seriously? Combine it with force-wave, perma snares, endless CC and shield.

For a class wich is supposed to struggle a lot vs melee, you surely have a lot of tools to completely disable them.

 

In WoW mages have blink, in TOR, sages/sorcs have sprint.

 

Blink removes all slow/root effects and frees you from a stun.

 

Sprint does none of the above, and you can be rooted/stunned during the sprint.

 

What perma snares? Any two Sorc/Sage stun/knockbacks and you are full resolve. Knockback? half way to full resolve. Stun? Halfway to full resolve. Talented instant Incap? Full resolve if broken on damage.

 

You act like Sorc/Sage have all these CC abilities that don't affect resolve, when in reality you can only use two in a given situation. If you drag the fight out, you can get more, but then that's really falling on the other players shoulders.

[ShizuXIII]

the amount of sorcerers on a team is not a sign of class balance or imbalance

 

And here you just displayed your total ignorance about pvp and mmorpgs in general.

 

Average mmorpg player always picks the most tard-proof class to feel hardcore with his big numbers. Has always been this way and will always be.

 

If you really think the HUGE increase in sorc/sage numbers has anything to do with the story (lol) or the look or I don't know what, then you are even more ignorant.

Where are shadows/assassins if the story is so incredibly fascinating? O wait, that's not the reason.

 

A slight imbalance in class numbers is normal, but 3-5 sorcerers in every single warzone is not.

But probably you just dont want to admit you are playing a completely tard-proof class, wich is understandable.

 

But don't worry, you don't need to justfy anything, to avoid a nerf.

They aren't nerfing you.

They nerfed your counter-class, wich was one of the least played.

 

So don't worry, in a couple months you all will be happily playing your 8 sorc vs 8 sages warzones.

[Vales]

Here, I've highlighted the issues for you. And the main issue is, you can have all that + more without sacrificing anything.

 

You always sacrifice something. Stop spouting nonsense.

[Vales]

And here you just displayed your total ignorance about pvp and mmorpgs in general.

 

Average mmorpg player always picks the most tard-proof class to feel hardcore with his big numbers. Has always been this way and will always be.

 

If you really think the HUGE increase in sorc/sage numbers has anything to do with the story (lol) or the look or I don't know what, then you are even more ignorant.

Where are shadows/assassins if the story is so incredibly fascinating? O wait, that's not the reason.

 

A slight imbalance in class numbers is normal, but 3-5 sorcerers in every single warzone is not.

But probably you just dont want to admit you are playing a completely tard-proof class, wich is understandable.

 

But don't worry, you don't need to justfy anything, to avoid a nerf.

They aren't nerfing you.

They nerfed your counter-class, wich was one of the least played.

 

So don't worry, in a couple months you all will be happily playing your 8 sorc vs 8 sages warzones.

 

History has proven that people pick their class according to style and description be that ingame or from manual.

Best example was WoW where on alliance side the vast majority played paladins and on horde side shamans and paladins were crap in PvP outside of their 10 second immunity which was on a 5 minute CD.

 

But do not worry if it continues BW will cater to bads like you.

[shaidarlol]

^^ what he said.

 

That force wave (so the retard below maybe understands) garbage is completely ****ed up.

I never see less than 3 sorcerers per team, usually 4 and sometimes 5 or 6.

 

Imagine the fun for stealthers with 3-5 sorcerers spamming that garbage on cd.

 

Cooldown is way too short and range way too big, for a skill wich can literally disable an entire team.

 

Also, sprint on the "mage" class? Seriously? Combine it with force-wave, perma snares, endless CC and shield.

For a class wich is supposed to struggle a lot vs melee, you surely have a lot of tools to completely disable them.

 

since you've edited your post i'll respond to it again.

force wave is a knockback while annoying many other classes have it as well, gunslingers/snipers, mercenary/commandos (in fact they have 2, 1 is a single target knockback), assassins as well, and from the sound of it you are an assassin, why do melee need a knockback when your job is to stay on the player?

 

again it seems like you have a problem with how many sorcerers there are on the opposing team, i suppose to only way to fix that is to nerf a class which i believe is balanced. i mean how else do you cull the number of a class other than making them complete garbage.

 

and yes i can seriously imagine 3-5 sorcerers just using their knockback on cd against stealthers just randomly guessing. A+

 

an ability which can completely disable an entire team, yes this is true, but so can other abilities, like flash bang grenade, aoe stun from pyrotechs, fear from warriors, but that's not a problem is it? just SORCERERS.

 

force speed, now this is actually interesting, yes the utility of the skill is quite high, but without, i can pretty much guarantee you sorcerers will never live once a melee is on them.

[Vales]

^^ what he said.

 

That force wave (edited so the retard below maybe understands) garbage is completely ****ed up.

I never see less than 3 sorcerers per team, usually 4 and sometimes 5 or 6.

 

Imagine the fun for stealthers with 3-5 sorcerers spamming that garbage on cd.

 

Cooldown is way too short and range way too big, for a skill wich can literally disable an entire team.

 

Also, sprint on the "mage" class? Seriously? Combine it with force-wave, perma snares, endless CC and shield.

For a class wich is supposed to struggle a lot vs melee, you surely have a lot of tools to completely disable them.

 

Bla bla I am bad and do not know how to play.

By the way it is a pretty standard design that the class with the least passive mitigation gets the best mobility/CC to compensate for that.

See mage in WoW and other games.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Vales