A single solution for 3 WZ issues?

[Malleki]

Medals seem to be a bit of an issue in PvP. The idea of rewarding effort is good but the implementation just doesn't promote teamwork or objective play in what are obviously objective based warzones. Causing people to selfishly go for as many medals as possible because win or loose, they can garantee a better personal reward this way.

 

This in turn causes an issue with dailys, players unable to complete WZ dailys due to repeated team failures due to lack of structure or objective play.

 

A third issue is AFKing, now I haven't seen much of this personally but I do see complaints. To be able to sign up to PvP, do nothing but run around (or twitch on the spot) and still get rewarded is simply counterproductive.

 

I believe a change to the medal rewarding system (the criteria your currently given medals for), and altering the daily so it relies on medals would solve all 3 of these problems.

 

In my opinion the current medal system promotes selfish gameplay. There should be scaling medals for Guarding, Healing and Damage but only 2 per catagory. The rest should be WZ specific rewards.

For example:

 

Huttball - Scoring a goal, scoring a hat-trick, passing the ball to someone who then scores, absorbing/healing X ammount of damage to a ball carrier, killing a ball carrier, intercepting a pass.

 

Voidstar - Arming the bomb, medals for time spent defending a target, interrupting a bomb planter, perhaps even one X ammount of time CCing an opponent.

 

Alderaan - Taking a turret, intercepting a capture, X number of kills while near a target etc..

 

Obviously the medals would need testing and some slightly deeper thought than what I'm pulling off the top of my head.

 

If you had to earn 20/30 medals for your WZ daily, people would be more inclined to play objectively and not just fight for fighting sake. (I do understand why people do and enjoy this, but objective base WZs are just that...objective based. They need to be treated as such). Hopefully this would lead to far more objective gameplay and teams working together even if only for personal gain.

It also means 3 losses in a row isnt a complete failure, you can still play with full intent of helping your team and get a number of medals to assist them.

 

This system would only work however if the medals were healthily revamped. Healers/Tanks have to get a healthy reward for objective contributions (defending points etc..) without allowing someone to mindlessly fight without a care for the WZ around them.

 

The side effect of making AFKer rewards/dailys impossible is also a nice bonus. If they are getting 10-20 valor for a medal-less game, then their progression is ground to a halt.

 

Its not a big change really. I think a system like this would make WZs more enjoyable and rewarding for everyone who contributes.

 

TL;DR?

 

Medals should reward objective gameplay in WZs - They should also be the basis of the WZ daily so individuals are rewarded for playing well.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Malleki

[Malleki]

Added a TL;DR to summarize the post

[VegaPhone]

The War zones are alright, but its feel a bit of a grind the way it is with rewards taking too long. So people afk grind pvp.

 

Imo they should give rewards more easily, and give rewards based on actually using key abilities for the class.

 

Also make people choose which war zone they can play in.

 

Then add more variety of the same thing. Alter the maps a bit to make them more interesting with the same mechanics.

 

These maps are easy to mimic since they are symmetrical. So as long as the maps are symmetrical for both sides, they can make more maps with the same mechanics.

 

Then PVP is already better.

 

 

 

And of course the best one would be adding a lot of warzones as well. Which of course would mean what ever resources they have, would be redirected to this important issue. Which should have been more of a focus to begin with.

 

BW is always talking about learning from others and how to release a successful MMO, and how a good launch is very important.

 

Well launch is important only because it affects the perception of the game. The game itself will make people deal with the small issues if the game is worth the problem for them. The problem is BW did not percieve the importance of end game too well especially for PVP. They know they are competing against giants like WoW, and they tried to sell thier game as replay-able. Which statistically might be a genius move since RPGers are essentially altaholics, and of course in MMOs alta holics exist as well. However, even an MMO altaholic would be hesitant to role another character if end game was not worth the effort for them. Legacy is a nice incentive, but playing the same side stories becomes repetitive and therefore the class story has to be important enough or the end game. Then there is the issue of the value of the game and their perception of what they, the customer, are willing to pay. They are taking 15$ a month. That is a major issue to this alt- a-holic delimna with little end game. That 15$ a month means people expect a lot more when to them that 15$ is good money that they can spend else where.

 

So End game is very important. So an important launch only helps to attract more customers in the first week, but once the game is out and people have played the game and are tired of the end game, and move on... well once they move on... its really difficult for them to add all the right things at once to make people who are now frustrated and already content doing something else to come back.

 

Sure there are 1.7 million subs, but what percentage of those have played end game for a month?

 

So BW should have released this game with more pvp, and more social activities, and more mini games.

 

If I was BW I would have invested in less trailers and more into the game. The fact that they put a lot into trailers, and a lot into their forums as well shows that they had the money to spend. Also the cost of setting up booths and travelling as well.

 

So if BW suffers a lot because they put too much into story,( which btw is great but could have been a bit shorter and would still be great if other parts got more attention) then all the other extras like trailers, forum updates, exclusive green zone release (which means less revenue and less advertising when red zone countries countries host competitions and have thier own servers), VO in 3 languages... would be a bad decision, when they could have had so many more layers to their game in one language.

 

The world speaks English. They spend a lot of money for VO in 2 other languages. I hope it pays off, but when I see that the game is missing in some important features but they invested into so many other things which some of I do not use (trailers/VO in other languages) then the game suffers because of it.

 

Do you guys think it was worth having two extra trailers, VO in two other languages, Friday updates, them traveling to every event to not have, or the trade off of more pvp - Warzones and open world, mini games, more space combat mission, more crafting, player housing etc ?

Edited February 8, 2012 by VegaPhone

[Malleki]

I think you may have gone slightly off-topic with that Vega. My point was more to improve the player's style of play more than a content issue.

 

Objective PvP zones need to have incentive for people to actually do the objectives correctly, rather than just going for medals. Making medals the whole reason of PvP by pointing them to Objective based situations seems like an easy way to get the less group-centric players to focus on the WZ objective. Im almost certain this would make PUG groups improve exponentially and reward those who actually played well.

 

New warzones will come in time, 3 is plenty for a game to start with and they have already announced a new one on the way.

[Xenon-se]

They recently increased the award for winning (winning equal quite a few medals worth of valor) and decreased the award for losing. Give it a few more weeks before changing it again though.

 

However, if it isnt enough, decrease award for losing even further. Or make it more visual... award three medals to everyone in the winning team.

 

Eventually it will be more efficient valor per hour to help the team to win than to collect individual medals. Shrug.

 

Having said that, you gain more of your medals WHILE helping your team to win anyways. Planting the bomb at void star. You need to deal damage (even healers) to burn down people in the area. Then you need to plant the bomb while you get cover. classes with aoe mez and aoe knockbacks to stop people from interrupting (unless you play pugs, then you can get away with planting the bomb mid-combat quite often). Hutt Ball. You get medals for guarding and healing the ball carrier. As well as dealing damage and peeling.

 

There is an objective statistic that show how much you helped out with objectives. Guess there could be some more visual indication such as "Xenon planted the bomb!" or "Xenon score a goal for the team!" - but most of the time its a team effort. You need that guard. You need them heals and cleanse. You need someone to pass. You need someone to leap to. You need someone to pull you up from the pit etc....

 

 

 

A bigger issue is the no penalty for leaving a wz mid fight. There are a lot of cases where several people leave if opponents cap two bases early in civil war, just to instantly requeue with no penalty. This is a bigger issue imo.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Xenon-se

[CJHN]

whats wrong with scoring the usual 6-9 medals per game?

[Malleki]

Having said that, you gain more of your medals WHILE helping your team to win anyways. Planting the bomb at void star. You need to deal damage (even healers) to burn down people in the area. Then you need to plant the bomb while you get cover. classes with aoe mez and aoe knockbacks to stop people from interrupting (unless you play pugs, then you can get away with planting the bomb mid-combat quite often). Hutt Ball. You get medals for guarding and healing the ball carrier. As well as dealing damage and peeling.

 

 

 

A bigger issue is the no penalty for leaving a wz mid fight. There are a lot of cases where several people leave if opponents cap two bases early in civil war, just to instantly requeue with no penalty. This is a bigger issue imo.

 

Good points, but I feel the medals could be better focused/tailored towards the individual Warzone itself. The thing is there are still too many people who just focus on damage & medals. If you make the medals actually more directly beneficial to the Warzone progress, you'll end up with more focused and dynamic games.

 

As it is right now, a DPS who ignores the turrets in Alderaan completely and fights pointless battles can still end up with 8 medals and feel completely justified in their gameplay. When essentially their team was fighting 1 man down because his contribution was completely unfocused.

Dailys could then focus on Medals and you don't end up with people complaining about an entire evening of play and no Daily.

 

I definitely agree with the lack of leaving penalty, thats just a giant oversight.

 

whats wrong with scoring the usual 6-9 medals per game?

 

Its not about wanting to get more medals. If I am focusing on just medals I can get 8-10 most games, being a Guardian.

Its about the medals being more focused on the objectives, then changing the Dailys to reward medals oriented towards Warzone progression. Not just arbitary stats like Damage.

 

The system has the right idea already, I just think it could be better focused.

[patatt]

Added a TL;DR to summarize the post

 

A very well thought out post with a solid solution to the issue at hand. I really hope BioWare takes some of this advice, as I feel it would completely revamp PvP for the better.

 

You could even convert it down to the lower bracket for XP based off of valor gains as well, so that people don't afk level in WZs.

 

I think this type of a system would greatly heighten the fun of PvP, and even take away some of the gear dependence as more people would be focusing on map based objectives as opposed to just massive heals/damage output and tailor their focus towards stopping opponents from winning. As long as the obectives are spread throughout the different class styles, I think this would be a good, workable system.

 

You would have to make sure this system cannot be abused by trading exploits, like we currently have in Ilum however. Planting and defusing the bomb on one door in voidstar could be a pretty harsh way of farming valor for 2 rounds. Or trading caps in alderaan.

[Black_bart_blues]

I agree with you about making Warzones more objective based. I love BF3 because the game rewards in just the right way to encourage team play, yet getting kills still satisfies.

 

Employ the changes mentioned, and then add a dedicated team deathmatch mode for those that enjoy racking up the kills.

[Hett]

As a tank I can collect 5 to 11 medals per game (depending on team), but I noticed I gain much more medals when ignoring the WZ objectives, and this sucks.

 

TL;DR

I agree

[Malleki]

You would have to make sure this system cannot be abused by trading exploits, like we currently have in Ilum however. Planting and defusing the bomb on one door in voidstar could be a pretty harsh way of farming valor for 2 rounds. Or trading caps in alderaan.

 

Thanks for the support, I appretiate it

 

The medals would be pretty resilient to abuse as not only are teams picked at random, making getting someone cooperative on the opposing team more difficult, but the medals can only be awarded once each, which is how things currently stand ingame.

 

Scored once in Huttball? You can either help other people score for more medals, or go for a Hat-trick and get medals. Alternatively you'll get more medals for preventing the enemy ball-carrier from progressing. Either way, your being useful to the game as a whole and not just stat padding.

 

Employ the changes mentioned, and then add a dedicated team deathmatch mode for those that enjoy racking up the kills.

 

I like the idea of a deathmatch mode aswell, but essentially isn't that what Open PvP is for? A less objective styled, kill or be-killed scenario. Admittedly its shot to hell at the moment, but the fixing of Open PvP gives those who want less objective PvP an outlet.

[Patrickgf]

You got my vote... I made a post similar to this yesterday.

[Happyfase]

There definitely should NOT be a medal for placing a bomb on the door or defusing it. Why? Because every WZ I already see 3 people trying to simultaneously place a bomb when 2 of them should be CCing and defending. Adding a medal to that is going to make it 7...

 

There definitely should NOT be a medal for carrying the ball or scoring the ball. If it's not obvious why, you should not be making suggestions on game mechanics.

[Hett]

There definitely should NOT be a medal for placing a bomb on the door or defusing it. Why? Because every WZ I already see 3 people trying to simultaneously place a bomb when 2 of them should be CCing and defending. Adding a medal to that is going to make it 7...

 

There definitely should NOT be a medal for carrying the ball or scoring the ball. If it's not obvious why, you should not be making suggestions on game mechanics.

 

Although I agree on the specifics, I also think you should read the posts you are commenting on. Hint:

 

Obviously the medals would need testing and some slightly deeper thought than what I'm pulling off the top of my head.

[Patrickgf]

You got my vote... I made a post similar to this yesterday. Not sure why this showed up twice lol Edited February 8, 2012 by Patrickgf

[Patrickgf]

There definitely should NOT be a medal for placing a bomb on the door or defusing it. Why? Because every WZ I already see 3 people trying to simultaneously place a bomb when 2 of them should be CCing and defending. Adding a medal to that is going to make it 7...

 

There definitely should NOT be a medal for carrying the ball or scoring the ball. If it's not obvious why, you should not be making suggestions on game mechanics.

 

Did you not see the part where he mentioned medals for CC and defending?

[Dzhokhar]

There definitely should NOT be a medal for placing a bomb on the door or defusing it. Why? Because every WZ I already see 3 people trying to simultaneously place a bomb when 2 of them should be CCing and defending. Adding a medal to that is going to make it 7...

 

There definitely should NOT be a medal for carrying the ball or scoring the ball. If it's not obvious why, you should not be making suggestions on game mechanics.

 

I agree. Medals for things like what the OP suggested would only encourage teams to compete amongst themselves for medals instead of competing against the opposing team.

 

My solution would be to keep the existing medals but change the rewards associated with the medals and winning/losing. I would make medals worth 5-10x more to players on the winning team than they are worth to players on the losing team. This way, you still get rewarded for medals (and they aren't drowned out by the reward for simply winning), but there is a significant penalty for chasing medals without helping your team win.

[Malleki]

I agree. Medals for things like what the OP suggested would only encourage teams to compete amongst themselves for medals instead of competing against the opposing team.

 

My solution would be to keep the existing medals but change the rewards associated with the medals and winning/losing. I would make medals worth 5-10x more to players on the winning team than they are worth to players on the losing team. This way, you still get rewarded for medals (and they aren't drowned out by the reward for simply winning), but there is a significant penalty for chasing medals without helping your team win.

 

The medals at the moment are far more counter-productive than a positive effect on Warzones in my opinion. People more interested in the most damage than planting a bomb.

 

You can prevent fighting over a bomb if there are medals for other tasks involving the bomb placer. The bomb means nothing (in terms of personal gain) and you still get multiple people trying to do it, sadly you will never stop it. My aim is more to promote more diverse play by replacing the medals with objective based ones. That doesnt have to be placing the bomb, it could also be defending the guy placing it. Then next time someone else will go for the placing medal as the one who did the first time has got his one and wants the defence medal, etc...

 

Also the medals get more actual meaning as you can tie the Daily rewards into it instead of just plain win/loss.

 

If there are 2 medals, one for planting and one for defending the guys planting you will get people going for the objectives.

 

If there are 2 medals, one for 100k damage and one for 100k healing....people will just fight.

 

You got my vote... I made a post similar to this yesterday

 

I have to admit, I'm not an avid search user so I didn't see your post. I saw a thread or two a bit similar but decided to pop my thoughts down more directly.

 

Never the less, I'm glad you agree

Edited February 8, 2012 by Malleki