Tracer Spam

[LordSnuggles]

Let me start by saying I have no problem with the damage tracer missile and grav round do. However, I am tired of getting into warzones and having half of the enemy team standing in one place spamming one button. I am a vanguard, and fight bounty hunters on a regular basis. I must use a dozen different abilites, while the only cast bar I ever see on their portrait is tracer missile. At the end of the warzone, they have done more damage on average, from standing in one place channeling one ability.

 

Would it be so hard to add a short cooldown, say 10-15 seconds, so that these players actually have to learn to do more than press one button?

[rolotomasi]

i would love a 15 sec cd for my tracer if it gives 20% penetration than stacking 4% debuff 5 times.

 

imo u do not see other skill they use coz merc always combo tracer with insta skill. since gcd is over while casting tracer, both skill hit almost at the same time.

[TyrellJonez]

Let me start by saying I have no problem with the damage tracer missile and grav round do. However, I am tired of getting into warzones and having half of the enemy team standing in one place spamming one button. I am a vanguard, and fight bounty hunters on a regular basis. I must use a dozen different abilites, while the only cast bar I ever see on their portrait is tracer missile. At the end of the warzone, they have done more damage on average, from standing in one place channeling one ability.

 

Would it be so hard to add a short cooldown, say 10-15 seconds, so that these players actually have to learn to do more than press one button?

 

tracer missle/grav round is their primary attack. It sets up all other attacks. If you don't like the spam, LoS. I played a Pyrotech merc and used to play Arsenal. I can run rings around any spammer and will typically kill even better geared targets. They are sitting ducks, use that to your advantage.

[Barakus]

People who think Mercs/Commandos are literally only using one skill are ignorant. Bioware designed the Gunnery tree so that many of my other abilities synergize with Grav Round.

 

For example, the Grav Round debuff "Gravity Vortex" buffs the damage of my Demo Round. This debuff also allows me to use High Impact Bolt which normally requires the target to be burning or have a DoT on him. Grav Round also procs Curtain of Fire which refreshes Full auto and increases it's damage but a good amount.

 

So yeah, I use Grav Round a lot but people generally die from my Demo Round or High Impact Bolt. They just don't notice because they are instant cast.

[LordSnuggles]

I have never seen any BH or Commando use full auto in pvp. And I didn't just write this post after playing a few matches. This is after weeks of watching several individuals in pvp literally spam tracer missile/grav round. Sure, maybe they also use instant casts in between, but I don't see how they are using too many other abilities, because not a second goes by when they are fighting that they aren't channeling it.

 

And they end up with 500k+ damage in matches. Every match. Compared with an average of 200k-300k for other classes, it just doesn't seem balanced. Maybe I'm wrong, and it will all balance out in a few weeks.

[der_mawel]

we all shulb be happy to see dumb mercs/commandos in pvp becaus if they used all their abilities in the optimal way they woulb be able do deal over 7k dmg in one gcd from time to time.

 

mercs/commandos are definitely op. they just deal too much dmg waerimg heavy armor and having an absurd aoe knockback ands stun and blind. they can also heal themselves for a small amount which is not that small concidering the instacast buff.

 

i play a commando on lvl 25 and a sentinel at valor rank 59 and full t2 pvp. it is just rediculous how much dmg output the commando generates out of nothing, just with grav round and high impact bolt+sticky grenade.

 

the kyting argument doesnt work because it implies that u dont attack the commando/merc nor anyone standing in his los. it also points out the rediculously high dps of the class as u are forced into cover just because of one player.

 

a full t2 healer casts his 2k noncrit heal for 2,5s during this time a merc/commando has almost dealt 3k dmg with two casts of his main dmg ability without cd.

[dirtycarebear]

Well actually tracer missile sux and illusion imo.

I dont have a real high lvl BH but me and friend started merc together for tracer missile. At lvl25 we both switches our builds to pyro, i do now at least 40k more dmg per warzone, i am completely mobile, i can dps while i run, chase, escort and i have no interruption troubles like tracer missile guyz.

[Cegenaus]

no

 

/5char

[LoL-K-Noob]

no

 

/5char

 

You betetr enjoy your one key wonder while it lasts. Your time is running short.

[CptBrit]

mercs/commandos are definitely op. they just deal too much dmg waerimg heavy armor and having an absurd aoe knockback ands stun and blind. they can also heal themselves for a small amount which is not that small concidering the instacast buff.

 

The thing you don't understand about Mercs is they deal a lot of damage but they are glass cannons, Yea Heavy Armour helps for about .5 seconds and isn't likely to save anyone really.

 

To make a direct WoW comparison, they are the Elemental Shammies. Deal loads of damage but have more or less zero maneuverability (except out of combat but then everyone gets sprint) Mercs are ace at range but get them on their own or in Melee and it becomes a lot harder.

[Kutalion]

People who think Mercs/Commandos are literally only using one skill are ignorant...

 

[Karbonkopi]

I have never seen any BH or Commando use full auto in pvp. And I didn't just write this post after playing a few matches. This is after weeks of watching several individuals in pvp literally spam tracer missile/grav round. Sure, maybe they also use instant casts in between, but I don't see how they are using too many other abilities, because not a second goes by when they are fighting that they aren't channeling it.

 

 

All I can suggest is... suggest to your teammates to use interrupts during pvp. I play Vanguard Hybrid spec for pvp atm, 25/14/2, before that I was full assault 4/6/31, and prior to that i was a dps hybrid 24/18. Both the first and the last are heavy melee specs. the middle and last are great for kiting other melee classes. I literally lol when I go to fight a Bh who is spamming tracer missile.... I simply use my interrupt, on a 6 second cooldown, which prevents a skill from being used for 4 seconds.. and watch them stumble to find another attack if they're baddies. Honestly, as the Full assault spec, it gets really annoying for me if cryo grenade is on cooldown and i can't Los them, but that is when u close the distance and use yer interrupt and the other half of yer skills which work within the 4m-10m range. If you are letting someone sit in the same spot for any amount of time without you or your teammates doing something about it, they are going to put up huge numbers no matter what dps class/spec they are in pvp. As far as I know, every class has some type of interrupt or cc, put it on your action bar or hot key it.. and use it in pvp. Even if it's just cryo grenade to close the distance, cryo is down? pop yer shield till u can close the gap.. shield is down, pop yer self heal and stim once u do close the gap..... or you could just continue to let them sit there.. spam their 'cast time' skill and complain about the numbers they are putting up because of it.

 

Just my 2 cents. Honestly powertechs give me more trouble than mercs, don't see what the complaining is all about. once I realized what skill they were spamming, it was simply a matter of timing my interrupt/cc cooldowns to deal with them; all gear being equal.

[Halefthaut]

Let me start by saying I have no problem with the damage tracer missile and grav round do. However, I am tired of getting into warzones and having half of the enemy team standing in one place spamming one button. I am a vanguard, and fight bounty hunters on a regular basis. I must use a dozen different abilites, while the only cast bar I ever see on their portrait is tracer missile. At the end of the warzone, they have done more damage on average, from standing in one place channeling one ability.

 

Would it be so hard to add a short cooldown, say 10-15 seconds, so that these players actually have to learn to do more than press one button?

 

Level a Merc yourself and learn how wrong you are. Id trade TM/Power Shot any day for Flame Burst, but that´s just me

[jcyrus]

Let me start by saying I have no problem with the damage tracer missile and grav round do. However, I am tired of getting into warzones and having half of the enemy team standing in one place spamming one button. I am a vanguard, and fight bounty hunters on a regular basis. I must use a dozen different abilites, while the only cast bar I ever see on their portrait is tracer missile. At the end of the warzone, they have done more damage on average, from standing in one place channeling one ability.

 

Would it be so hard to add a short cooldown, say 10-15 seconds, so that these players actually have to learn to do more than press one button?

I know the feeling (hence my signature).

 

My first 50 was a Mercenary specced around Tracer Missile. It was very, very dull, and I lost interest shortly after hitting 50.

 

I now play a Marauder. Yesterday I counted up the abilities I use in the average fight, and I believe the number I ended up with was 21.

 

It is disheartening to see such a large discrepancy in regards to the involvement needed to be successful with these two classes.

 

Sure, all it takes is some interrupts to throw a wrench in the strategy, but as a RDPS you can follow other players and stay at max range, spamming their target. More often than not, that's precisely what Tracer Missile spammers do.

Edited February 8, 2012 by jcyrus

[rlpirate]

Level a Merc yourself and learn how wrong you are. Id trade TM/Power Shot any day for Flame Burst, but that´s just me

 

lol

 

i have a lvl 10 merc and a 50 pt and if u are serious about that trade ur "slow"(ill edit it myself so the mods dont get excited)

Edited February 8, 2012 by rlpirate

[Atownarmy]

tracer missle/grav round is their primary attack. It sets up all other attacks. If you don't like the spam, LoS. I played a Pyrotech merc and used to play Arsenal. I can run rings around any spammer and will typically kill even better geared targets. They are sitting ducks, use that to your advantage.

 

As a Commando, I agree with this. In Voidstar, if you're running to the big pillars, I wont even follow if I don't have both of my CCs ready to go, because I know that with my 1.5s activation time, I'll never hit you while you're running around, losing LOS. And all of my skills are weaker without being buffed by grav round. LOS is your best weapon vs a trooper, I promise you that. Just like if a Scoundrel gets off their bust openers off, or if a Sage hits you with a CC first, you're at a disadvantage if a Commando catches you in the open. It not something that cant be overcome with smart use of your cooldowns, but it is a disadvantage just like you could find against any advanced class.

 

The complaint is: Trooper/BH play style makes the way that I want to play not as effective. And I agree. Just like every time I play against an Sniper, Operative, or Sorc, I have to completely change up the way that I play. Start using less effective skills in a more effective way, burn some CCs, use actual PvP skill and hope that I crit more than they do. Every advanced class is OP if your play style is not effective against them, and you refuse to adapt.

 

As far as full auto goes: If you see troopers not using it, they're either farming DPS, or ineffective. Allow me to explain with a Pros and Cons of Full Auto v spamming Grav Round:

 

Pro:

Slows target

Uses the same amount of ammo, but over twice the time, so effectively, it's half the ammo

Similar DPS, but with a higher chance to crit

 

Cons:

Because it is a full 3s cast time, you're not as responsive to changes in that time

Its not building up buffs like grav round would

 

So basically, if you don't use full auto you get slightly better DPS (minus some from the loss of crit% of full auto, plus more because of the 2 additional buffs on High Impact Bolt and Demo Round) at the cost of ammo and a snare. If a Commando is killing you without using full auto it's because you're squishy and he knows he wont run out of ammo or need to snare you. Full Auto is a great tool for PvP and if it's underutilized, that's on the player.

[Boysie]

I have never seen any BH or Commando use full auto in pvp. And I didn't just write this post after playing a few matches. This is after weeks of watching several individuals in pvp literally spam tracer missile/grav round. Sure, maybe they also use instant casts in between, but I don't see how they are using too many other abilities, because not a second goes by when they are fighting that they aren't channeling it.

 

And they end up with 500k+ damage in matches. Every match. Compared with an average of 200k-300k for other classes, it just doesn't seem balanced. Maybe I'm wrong, and it will all balance out in a few weeks.

 

Considering the various things in the gunnery skill tree that buff full auto in various ways, you can bet they ARE using it:

• 3 ranks of steady aim reduces pushback while channeling it by 75%.
  
• 2 ranks of deadly cannon increases critical bonus damage by 30%.
  
• 2 ranks of cell charger means that crits with full auto give you 1 ammo back 100% of the time (once every 3 seconds max).
  
• 1 rank of rotary cannon increases full auto damage by 33%.
  
• 2 ranks of cover fire means that full auto slows the target by 50% for 2 seconds 100% of the time.
  
• 3 ranks of curtain of fire gives charged bolts and grav round a 33% chance to finish the cooldown on full auto and increase the damage dealt by the next full auto by 25%.
  

 

Most of those skills are things which you will be putting points in anyway if you want to unlock Demolition round. The slow effect is particularly useful as it makes it harder for your target to LOS you.

 

Given how central the skill tree makes Grav round, gunnery commandos WILL be using it a lot:

• Gravity rounds add the gravity vortex debuff which reduces target's armour by 4% and makes the target vulnerable to high impact bolt (Stacks up to 5 times).
  
• in tier 2 of the skill tree, 1 point in muzzle fluting reduces the cost of grav rounds and charged bolts by one. 3 points in steadied aim reduces pushback by 75%.
  
• 2 points in charged barrier makes grav round apply an effect that reduces incoming damage by 2% for 15 seconds, stacks up to 5 times.
  
• 2 ranks in cell charger makes crits with rounds regenerate 1 ammo
  
• 1 rank of charged barrel means that each time you use grav round, it increases the damage of the next high impact bolt by 6%, stacks up to 5 times.
  
• 3 ranks of curtain of fire gives charged bolts and grav round a 33% chance to finish the cooldown on full auto and increase the damage dealt by the next full auto by 25%.
  
• demolition round damage is increased by 5% for each gravity vortex on the target.
  

 

Grav round and charged bolts are the only ranged attacks other than the basic hammer shot which don't have a cooldown beyond GCD, or require the target to have a DOT/Debuff on them. Charged bolts don't apply most of the above effects if you've specced gunnery.

Nerfing grav round to make it less attractive without buffing a load of other things would basically break the entire gunnery skilltree.

 

The reason people use it a lot, is that doing so is an absolute requirement of their skill spec, the simplest opening of any gunnery rotation is 2 or 3 grav rounds. You don't open with mediocre abilities do you? Why expect anyone else to?

 

The reason gunnery spec commandos do high damage is that when not LOS'd or interrrupted, they are able to stack a lot of buffs/procs on their own damage abilities, with debuffs on target's defenses. By opening with three grav rounds, firing off their buffed heavy damage abilities, then keeping grav rounds going while waiting for cooldowns, the Commando gets max damage.

 

If you're stupid enough to stand in the open letting a commando build a stack of gravity vortexes on you, you deserve the nuking. It takes six whole seconds standing rooted to the spot to get three grav rounds off in ideal circumstances. If you can't LOS, CC, Interrupt or otherwise inconvenience the (stationary) Commando in that time, the problem isn't with grav rounds...

[Niconogood]

I have never seen any BH or Commando use full auto in pvp. And I didn't just write this post after playing a few matches. This is after weeks of watching several individuals in pvp literally spam tracer missile/grav round. Sure, maybe they also use instant casts in between, but I don't see how they are using too many other abilities, because not a second goes by when they are fighting that they aren't channeling it.

 

And they end up with 500k+ damage in matches. Every match. Compared with an average of 200k-300k for other classes, it just doesn't seem balanced. Maybe I'm wrong, and it will all balance out in a few weeks.

 

I am pretty sure you do, as the procced full auto refresh can hit up to 7k and is by far the ability that gives us the most bang for the buck.

 

I think people are just brainwashed by the forums to think all mercs/commandos use tracermissile, so thats the only think they notice. In reality less than half the damage you take comes from this skill.

[Jestunhi]

You betetr enjoy your one key wonder while it lasts. Your time is running short.

 

If you get killed by someone just using tracers regularly enough to make posts like this then you should worry more about yourself.

[GRINnBARRETT]

Every single WZ has line of sight obstacles. Every single class has interrupts. Every single BH is only semi-mobile. Every single BH does not know the correct way to play their class. But I'm guessing you don't either if you haven't figured out how to counter to this already.

[NevesNET]

Every single class has interrupts.

What's the skill name for interrupt on BH?

Every single BH does not know the correct way to play their class.

Please, do go on... elaborate

[Epochmox]

See commandos and mercs claim the tree is about tracer/grav but its actually all about unload/full auto. They are jsut ment to use rounds and bolts to unlock it.

 

I have a 50 commando, 50 smuggler and now im working on my powertech. Ive never seen a commando or merc played as the spec intends.

It should be full auto/unload then grav round and instant rounds untill fullauto/unload procs. You NEVER see anyone using fullauto or unload. This is where the defence of grav round/Tm fails.

 

It needs a costs increase and a 3second cd. then they could weave the instant and casted bolts with reduced costs into a rotation with grav/tracer spam for full auto procs.....this will do far more dps than TM/Grav spam though but least it takes a bit of practise to do.

 

 

Maybe make full auto proc a reduced the cast time to 3 second but have gr/tm at 6 seconds normally.

 

Thus making people use full auto,unload bolts and rounds and not just using one round type.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Epochmox

[JediDuckling]

Let me start by saying I have no problem with the damage tracer missile and grav round do. However, I am tired of getting into warzones and having half of the enemy team standing in one place spamming one button. I am a vanguard, and fight bounty hunters on a regular basis. I must use a dozen different abilites, while the only cast bar I ever see on their portrait is tracer missile. At the end of the warzone, they have done more damage on average, from standing in one place channeling one ability.

 

Would it be so hard to add a short cooldown, say 10-15 seconds, so that these players actually have to learn to do more than press one button?

 

well they dotn exactly spam 1 button

 

i have a commando also and i use 10 to 19 abilitys depending on the situation.

 

you need to use grav round 5 times for the 5 stacks of debuff or 3 if specced for it.

5 grav rounds will get your 5 stacks for the high impact bolt damage increase

then you use demolition round and full auto

 

 

but what im doing right now is a from start to finish combination of

 

plasma grenade then sticky grenade

followed by 3x grav rounds

high impact bolt

demolishion round

full auto

 

 

this is my rotation

 

i also use

 

pulse cannon

mortar volley

hail of bolts

sticky grenade

 

this is my aoe rotation

 

 

commando and mercs are glass cannons and have to stay in the back to be effective. as soon as they get melee in there face they are as good as dead.

 

they are support class's and not as OP as people make out them to be. if they was OP then it wouldnt take 2 to 3 grav rounds just to break a sorce/sages bubble or be outhealed by 1 healer.

 

if you have me on your team as a commando i wont be useing 1 button

[der_mawel]

the problen is the overall dmg the commando does. btw by my count u need 4,5s for 3 grav rounds 1,5s*3=4,5s.

 

lets concider the worst case, nothing crits and the enemy is non squishy:

 

grav round (1200dmg)*3+demo round(2000dmg)=5600dmg AT LEAST! in 4,5s

 

lets concider the the standard case haviing a little critluck:

 

2*1200+2300(grav round crit)+3000 (demo round crit) = 7700dmg in 4,5s whis in nearly 50% hp of a champion equipped player.

 

the full combo would be:

 

grav round * 3 -> demoround -> grav round -> sticky grenade ->grav round -> high impact bolt.

 

 

the los argument sounds like: if u dont want to get killed, dont cross my los. its the definition of op.

 

ive player my commando long enough to know that the class is not that easy to interrupt due to knockbacks, cryo grenade, concussive shot and both instant shots which have the greatest crits.

 

btw u can still use mortar when the target is out of los which deals significant dmg (at least 4k)

 

 

well glasscannons with heavy armor and 10% additional dmg reduce in combat. a sniper an operative and maybe sorcs are slasscannons but definitely not commando.

Edited February 8, 2012 by der_mawel

[NevesNET]

... and how much would a DPS spec Sorc hit you for in those 4.5 secs just by spamming Lightning?