Exilicus Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 This is sort of "I don't see a cure for cancer yet, so it must not be a priority and/or people must not be working on it." We knew ahead of time this patch wasn't going to have Legacy. Last thing I read it's targeted for 1.2. We have heard nothing solid on any of the other things listed other than they are aware and working on them. Now you can choose to not believe them. That's fine. But just because we don't see it immediately (or even things asked for in testing phase) doesn't mean they are not working on them. Personally, what i would do is just fill out my little cancel sheet they give me on exit, and either check back in a bit (3-9 months) and see if they added them. Or just move on entirely. I thought Rich's blog entry went into a lot of good detail on how things work. But apparently it doesn't do what people want: fix things on their own timetable. This is a good post except that bw isnt trying to cure cancer more like, the flu and we have all been sick for a year and rather than give us the medicine we need they vaccinate us for other diseases we might get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raagnarz Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 To the OP, do you want the animation guy, who could potentially not be a coder, fixing core game issues? I realize how hard it is for people to understand that coders are not interchangeable, because my own management doesn't understand the concept. Just because you work on the same project doesn't mean you know every section of code, and there is a significant increased risk when going into unknown code, and of course, extra time to learn the new code. No you don't but at the same time, in my experience, you don't constantly update a customer or a product with minor little fixes here and there. You lump the little fixes in with bigger updates for 2 reasons, doing multiple small patches can be as risky(sometimes riskier) as doing larger ones, and customer perception is a HUGE issue. When you fix a ton of crap that aren't core issues to a customer, and they see all these little things they didn't ask for, they think they are paying you are wasting time on things that aren't important. Most of the general public doesn't understand how a dev team works and how there are smaller teams within the whole each assigned different tasks and completion times. Given that I am part of that I understand that, but that is exactly why I agree with the OP's point. They will fix minor things more quickly than major but the perception of disconnect with the community because of the way they are going about it inexcusable in my opinion. They need to get better and get better quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haroshia Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 that's the funniest thing i've read all day. At least one patch a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 These are the forums, after all, where the developers called out lying players publicly for the soul purpose of polarizing the community and making it as miserable as possible for everyone with a dissenting opinion. Yes because they should let liars shills for Arenanet and Astroturfers have their say on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalden Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Targeting Legacy (actually put into the game) Combat logs UI/Macro/addons/anything those were my complaints issues that have been in this game since beta started over a year ago, i dont care about content. these things should have been in the game at release, have been griped about for over a year, and should be the highest priority of the dev team as they effect the most people. almost every thread complaing about this game has mention of at least 1 of the 4 of these. Opinions differ. This should be evident to you by the reactions to those complaint threads you mention. There is no consensus on what needs to be fixed first, or even fixed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 This is a good post except that bw isnt trying to cure cancer more like, the flu and we have all been sick for a year and rather than give us the medicine we need they vaccinate us for other diseases we might get. Ok, now we are dissecting the metaphor? As long as we are going down that road: is there a cure for the flu? The common cold? Does that mean people aren't working on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asavrede Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Theres a fix that changes the animations for hydraulic overides Yes, and an animator probably did that. I doubt the same animator could have been working on the other (big) issues you bring up. You use the ressources you have to the best effect you can. Easy fixes will always naturally come before big difficult changes or additions, cos hey, they are easy and can be pushed right now without a lot of work or testing and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilicus Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Opinions differ. This should be evident to you by the reactions to those complaint threads you mention. There is no consensus on what needs to be fixed first, or even fixed at all. No thats true but i would argue that there is consensus on what is a basic need for and mmo in 2012 and that a combat log is on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quip Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yes because they should let liars shills for Arenanet and Astroturfers have their say on the forums. Delete the thread and deal with the problem privately, the very idea that a developer is going to engage in that sort of school yard mudslinging is unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilicus Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yes, and an animator probably did that. I doubt the same animator could have been working on the other (big) issues you bring up. You use the ressources you have to the best effect you can. Easy fixes will always naturally come before big difficult changes or additions, cos hey, they are easy and can be pushed right now without a lot of work or testing and whatnot. Combat log is not a big fix its a basic requirement in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightlycampana Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Theres a fix that changes the animations for hydraulic overides and hold the line to make it more noticable, thats great maybe 1 - 10 percent of your population uses that ability and i can certainly see why its fixed, meanwhile we still wait for the combat log to even make it to the test server, which would effect 100% of your population. im not saying that fixing the animation is a bad thing but really? thats a priority? This is a really thoughtless thing to say. What makes you think the same team that fixes a bug in animations is also going to be coding a new UI feature? And that different programmers can't be working on both at the same time? You're actually suggesting that if they have a quick easy fix for one minor bug, that they should leave it out until they've fixed/implemented the major things. I can understand why you are frustrated at some of the stuff not being in the game, but complaining about things that are being fixed, even if they're not important to you, is just silly. Important things are being addressed - both the last set of patch notes have several fixes trying to fix the ability delay issues, for instance, which is one of the #1 complains on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekadez Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Easy fixes will always naturally come before big difficult changes or additions, cos hey, they are easy and can be pushed right now without a lot of work or testing and whatnot. Yes and no. The easy fixes being implemented right away is only a way of keeping people happy, fabricating the perception that something is being done regularly. While in fact nothing is being done at all. Like I said before: Carrot on a stick. Keep people happy with incremental updates that hardly matter for the large majority, like the Legacy XP fix, and postpone the grand updates that matter. I won't fault them for that. It's always all about consumer perception. Edited February 7, 2012 by Dekadez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalden Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The game has been losing market share ever since the holiday season ended And you got that information from where? Legally binding evidence suggest the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Delete the thread and deal with the problem privately, the very idea that a developer is going to engage in that sort of school yard mudslinging is unbelievable. No it says that they won't allow organized and funded negative campaigns to adversely affect their product and the only people who are butturt over it were part of the campaign or had something to gain from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Do you like carrots? On a stick? I'm sure you do. The one thing that has been consistent on these boards since beta, is the 'Something is on the horizon, somewhere. Let's hang in there a little longer'. But don't forget: A fata morgana never led anyone to the desert oasis. You caught me. The fact that I actually listen to devs means I like being led around. Listen... if you think all of the devs are lying, you probably should leave. I wouldn't play a game if I had the constant belief that it wasn't going to improve. If you have unsubbed? Leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekadez Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 And you got that information from where? Legally binding evidence suggest the opposite. Cherry picking. Since the holiday season, they have been losing both market share and company shares due to the mixed reception and the lack of decisive updates and service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 This is a good post except that bw isnt trying to cure cancer more like, the flu and we have all been sick for a year and rather than give us the medicine we need they vaccinate us for other diseases we might get. The have stated that they are working on, or considering and approach in the case of addons/damage meters, everything you have a problem with. What more do you want? Want it now? too bad. You asked for it a year ago? So what? Move on. BioWare is fully aware of EVERY issue that players have, and will sort them out when they can. Not good enough? then go away. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalden Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No thats true but i would argue that there is consensus on what is a basic need for and mmo in 2012 and that a combat log is on that list. Combats logs are one of the features that a lot of people have expressed they do not want in the game at all. There is not even close to consensus. (I do not care myself.) I can agree with you on customizable UI. Almost 100% want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Cherry picking. Since the holiday season, they have been losing both market share and company shares due to the mixed reception and the lack of decisive updates and service. But where is your proof? That is what he was asking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalden Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Cherry picking. Since the holiday season, they have been losing both market share and company shares due to the mixed reception and the lack of decisive updates and service. And you base this on what? (Market share) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Cherry picking. Since the holiday season, they have been losing both market share and company shares due to the mixed reception and the lack of decisive updates and service. Okay fine show me hard factual numbers from a trusted non fan industry source, produce that and we will believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilicus Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 This is a really thoughtless thing to say. What makes you think the same team that fixes a bug in animations is also going to be coding a new UI feature? And that different programmers can't be working on both at the same time? You're actually suggesting that if they have a quick easy fix for one minor bug, that they should leave it out until they've fixed/implemented the major things. I can understand why you are frustrated at some of the stuff not being in the game, but complaining about things that are being fixed, even if they're not important to you, is just silly. Important things are being addressed - both the last set of patch notes have several fixes trying to fix the ability delay issues, for instance, which is one of the #1 complains on the forum. They shoudnt leave it out however this is what like the 4th patch since release? the 3rd attempt to fix the ability delay problem? and to my point its still broken bringing me back to my original point these patches are not fixing major problems, as far as ability delay at least there as been an attempt as for as combat log, targeting and UI its not even on the test server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdstephen Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 OP, you have to realize that they can't have every single developer working on top priority issues, as that would make it even more challenging to get it done quickly because a) too many people working on one project makes the project inefficient, and b) some of the inexperienced developers may in fact hinder how quickly the project gets completed, and as such those inexperienced developers would be better suited doing something else like low priority stuff that they can fix quickly. The reason why the high priority bugs are taking so long to fix is not because Bioware didn't hire enough developers, nor because Bioware is throwing enough money at it; it's simply because those bugs are hard to fix. Also, simply bringing in more developers to fix more issues would be a waste of money in the short term (which is what you're complaining about, and thus is the only relevant term in this thread) because coding with BW's customized engine isn't something you can just pick up in a day. A person who is experienced in Java, for example, cannot just immediately start coding in Python or Mathematica. And plus, do you what would look even worse to the community? Having everyone work on time consuming, high priority bugs with no one working on the stuff that is easily fixable, leaving to patch notes with either extremely little to say, or no patches at all. That would make Bioware seem like they aren't working on fixing the game at all to the general public. As for something like the Legacy system not being implemented, I have a feeling that they had people working on it the entire time ever since they announced it, and felt like they should delay the release of the Legacy system until it was actually finished instead of just releasing only half the content. Also, it makes for good incentive for people who are in their 2nd month stay subscribed to the game. Clever marketing is clever. As for the UI, they confirmed in a video that they're already making it much better, if you noticed that the developer was able to drag windows around and resize some of the bars in the UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saybut Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Combat log != damage meeter. The numbers are allready flying across my screeen so they must be somewhere. How hard would it be to just print it out and display it in the chat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkvadar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 There really appears to be a serious disconnect between the tiny portion of the community that spends all their time on the forums screaming and whining and crying and complaining bitterly and inconsistently and the devs... FIFY. Wow some ppl have really small mind!!!! Guys like this is why bioware is getting away with doing nothing useful to fix game. Still waiting for a camera fix. So i dont have to scroll out every freakin second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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