Moricthian Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Just because something CAN be made easy does not mean it SHOULD be made easy. I readily admit that most people would use the LFD tool if it was introduced. But my point is that my experience with an LFD tool was absolutely abysmal. I almost universally got one of the following: a completely silent group that steadfastly refused to chat, even if the chat was about tactics and approaches to the fights; or a group of complete ******s who couldn't understand why every player didn't have all top-tier gear and were not the best players on the server. Yes, I admit that many people will use the LFD tool. I'll even admit that the vast majority would use it, because human nature almost always leads us to the path of least resistance. Which leads me back to my opening point: just because something CAN be made easy does not mean it SHOULD. In my opinion (which I state as an opinion, rather than an arrogant, condescending fact as you do in your post) is that the LFD tool does far more damage than good. You are, of course, free to disagree. However, my experience with a game with cross-server LFD was awful, and I was forced to use it since everyone was taking the path of least resistance. Nearly all my friends hated the thing, but nearly all used it. Because we, as humans, are idiots. 1. My experience with LFG tool in WOW was great. 2. Nobody is forcing you to use it. You can continue grouping with your guild/friends. 3. Most of us feel that running into the occasional jerk is well worth the accasability LFG tools provide. 4. You're confusing tedium with challenge. Many people find the current system tedious. We'd rather enjoy the challenge of actual flashpoints rather than the tedium of preparing for them. 5. LFG tool offers you choice. All you've offered as reason not to included LFG is personal experience/anecdotal evidence. Considering your personal experience will stay the same if you don't use LFG (as you will stil have control over who you group with), your evidence leads to the conlusion that you shouldn't use the LFG tool, not that it shouldn't be implemented at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordric Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Congratulations. You failed to recognize the behavior and furthermore you've moved onto a different topic altogether. We aren't talking about a "Looking for Operations" tool, we are talking about a flashpoint tool and comparing it to the 'successful' PvP queue system. oh sorry sir, I apologize for mentioning operations instead of flashpoints I completely went out of context ... dont know what hit me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejita Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 lol im on empire and the fleet has 200 people on peek hours.....barely any groups are formed, but there sure is alot more spaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOrionX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Please No!! I would hate to see a limitation of use for a LFG/LFD system,,,no CD, No max use per day, please. BW has to find a way to please both sides of the fence. They have to do something that will keep the pro-LFD tool players happy, while not angering the anti-LFD players. People have to be willing to compromise. If BW is smart they will make a tool that will please both sides of the fence to retain as many subs as possible. Edited February 7, 2012 by XOrionX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napalmbrain Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Do you know what kills the community for than a LFG tool? People quitting the game because it is impossible to form groups to do the content. I thought Bioware and most of you sheeple would have figured this out by now but it is obvious they don't care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuj Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 oh sorry sir, I apologize for mentioning operations instead of flashpoints I completely went out of context ... dont know what hit me It isn't just that. Not only did you take a statement completely out of context in an attempt to invalidate the point that was being made (DUR LEVEL 10Z IN A HARDMODE OPERATION HAR HAR), but you couldn't even stay within the guidelines of the argument that was being had. Honestly, if you have nothing to contribute to the conversation, you should probably just sit back and watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasuragi Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 all a LFG tool does, in my opinion is lead to issues, IE Loot ninjas, peeps acting like idiots and more. Find more folks to play with is a hollow answer I know, but its how I've done it, we don't group every night, but we're doing stuff a couple of nights a week and having fun doing so. While I wouldn't quit over it, I would never use it. I got burned on that behavior from Wow, I left wow because of that. I'd really rather not have it here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) The simple... "Form Group, Teleport inside instance" crap has essentially killed the community on ALL servers, in WoW. Yep, did the same thing to Rift. It was great if it was a group of guild mates or friends using the mechanics to easily assemble for a run on a spur of the moment when they were all scattered around the world. But for PUGs it was most often a disaster. People did not even want to talk in group chat unless it was to demand that everyone "HURRY UP!", or to chastize someone for something, or to /paste a combat log epeen every pull. And of course loot fights between selfish strangers. Once in a while you would meet someone who was actually social and strike up an in game friendship, but these became more rare as the douche baggery took over the system. It's like putting PUG type typical behaviors on steroids and then exposing them to insanity creating radiation. Edited February 7, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telendria Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I think LFG/LFD SHOULD be in TOR? But not the current WoW version. The old version, that signs you up for a roll, and finds you a group. You still have to join up with eachother, meet up, etc. Maybe even a Ctrl-Click for missions that lets you start a LFG for that specific mission. The simple... "Form Group, Teleport inside instance" crap has essentially killed the community on ALL servers, in WoW. it is not worse than SWTOR community, that rages every single time anyone mentions WoW and marks them as wrathbaby, kid or other in****ing names, while providing nothing valuable to the discussion. Mankrik wife joke on Dromund Kass had like 20 minute follow up of people insulting one another for basically any reason they could have come up with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOrionX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It isn't just that. Not only did you take a statement completely out of context in an attempt to invalidate the point that was being made (DUR LEVEL 10Z IN A HARDMODE OPERATION HAR HAR), but you couldn't even stay within the guidelines of the argument that was being had. Honestly, if you have nothing to contribute to the conversation, you should probably just sit back and watch. I lol'd at this. owned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) BW has to find a way to please both sides of the fence. They have to do something that will keep the pro-LFD tool players happy, while not angering the anti-LFD players. People have to be willing to compromise. If BW is smart they will make a tool that will please both sides of the fence to retain as many subs as possible. People complaining on forums doesn't tell whether or not people on either side of the argument is a significant chunk of the player base or just a vocal minority with the panties in a twist. They need to run metrics and see what percentage of the player base is running flashpoints as often as they want us to. If the numbers are too low compared to questing/space combat/PvP, they should include a LFG tool. If the numbers are exactly where they should be/need to be, they should leave things as it is. Edited February 7, 2012 by Moricthian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShotByBothSides Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Another vote for no cross server LFD, same server with no auto filling would be fine. The more this game is made to replicate WoW, the more likely I would be looking for something else to spend time and money on. So far, perhaps I am lucky, I have only come across decent, considerate players when I group. Please don't change that with cross server tourism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuj Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 1. My experience with LFG tool in WOW was great. 2. Nobody is forcing you to use it. You can continue grouping with your guild/friends. 3. Most of us feel that running into the occasional jerk is well worth the accasability LFG tools provide. 4. You're confusing tedium with challenge. Many people find the current system tedious. We'd rather enjoy the challenge of actual flashpoints rather than the tedium of preparing for them. 5. LFG tool offers you choice. All you've offered as reason not to included LFG is personal experience/anecdotal evidence. Considering your personal experience will stay the same if you don't use LFG (as you will stil have control over who you group with), your evidence leads to the conlusion that you shouldn't use the LFG tool, not that it shouldn't be implemented at all. What are you feelings on an LFG tool that doesn't provide additional rewards for using? IE: No bags of loot, additional credits, or bonus experience, it just puts a group together for you to run a flashpoint with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganelon Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 BW has to find a way to please both sides of the fence. They have to do something that will keep the pro-LFD tool players happy, while not angering the anti-LFD players. People have to be willing to compromise. If BW is smart they will make a tool that will please both sides of the fence to retain as many subs as possible. Here's the compromise: BW introduces a fully automated, cross server, queuing system for group content. People that don't like keep on making groups through chat channels, friend lists and guilds. People who like it, use the tool. Everyone's happy. It seems simple, doesn't it? The fact that the anti-LFD group are too busy trying to dictate how everyone else should play to not understand this boggles the mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 1. My experience with LFG tool in WOW was great. 2. Nobody is forcing you to use it. You can continue grouping with your guild/friends. 3. Most of us feel that running into the occasional jerk is well worth the accasability LFG tools provide. 4. You're confusing tedium with challenge. Many people find the current system tedious. We'd rather enjoy the challenge of actual flashpoints rather than the tedium of preparing for them. 5. LFG tool offers you choice. All you've offered as reason not to included LFG is personal experience/anecdotal evidence. Considering your personal experience will stay the same if you don't use LFG (as you will stil have control over who you group with), your evidence leads to the conlusion that you shouldn't use the LFG tool, not that it shouldn't be implemented at all. 1- Your experiences are just as irrelevant as those who say that can find groups easily. 2- Just because its "optional" does not magically make it good. 3- Jerks are but one of the many problems that LFD brings. 4- And you are confusing something you don't like to do with something you think you don't have to do. 5- All you have done is offer the same anecdotal evidence along with "facts" that do not in any way shape or form have any influence on the merits of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOrionX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Here's the compromise: BW introduces a fully automated, cross server, queuing system for group content. People that don't like keep on making groups through chat channels, friend lists and guilds. People who like it, use the tool. Everyone's happy. It seems simple, doesn't it? The fact that the anti-LFD group are too busy trying to dictate how everyone else should play to not understand this boggles the mind. No, not at all. Obvisouly there are people that would dislike this tool greatly. That is not a compromise, in fact I think you should grab a dictionary and brush up on the word. Edited February 7, 2012 by XOrionX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Here's the compromise: BW introduces a fully automated, cross server, queuing system for group content. People that don't like keep on making groups through chat channels, friend lists and guilds. People who like it, use the tool. Everyone's happy. It seems simple, doesn't it? The fact that the anti-LFD group are too busy trying to dictate how everyone else should play to not understand this boggles the mind. And the fact that the pro-LFD group is too busy trying to justify their inability to play a game within its own rules doesn't boggle your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrisCorven Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yep, did the same thing to Rift. It was great if it was a group of guild mates or friends using the mechanics to easily assemble for a run on a spur of the moment when they were all scattered around the world. But for PUGs it was most often a disaster. People did not even want to talk in group chat unless it was to demand that everyone "HURRY UP!", or to chastize someone for something, or to /paste a combat log epeen every pull. Once in a while you would meet someone who was actually social and strike up an in game friendship, but these became more rare as the douche baggery took over the system. It's like putting PUG type typical behaviors on steroids and then exposing them to insanity creating radiation. See? I remember when the old LFG tool was worthwhile. IT was fine how it was. You'd use it to join a group, meet up outside of the instance, help people GET to the instance, go inside, clear trash, and go through to portal. All while joking with the others. Some of my best instance runs in Wow were ran with PUG's from those days. Furthermore, you NEVER see anyone talk in Cata PUG's. They're quiet as hell, and only open their mouth to spurt insults at whoever ****ed their aggro, missed a heal, etc. And of course, it's usually asses without a spellcaster or healer that ***** about healers, and lower-level Fury warriors Tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFluke Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I missed out on the majority of FPs because of this. I think it's totally awesome that some of you are cool with sitting on the Fleet for two hours trying to "build community" but I think it sucks. And by "build community" I mean spam chat until someone finally connects. The only rational argument I've seen against LFG is that it gives people the opportunity to be even more *****ish than usual because you might never see them again. Pretty sure they'd be almost as bad if not the same even if they were on your server. I can't stand quite a few on mine. Can we at least start with a server or two in each LFG group? Please? Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yep, did the same thing to Rift. It was great if it was a group of guild mates or friends using the mechanics to easily assemble for a run on a spur of the moment when they were all scattered around the world. But for PUGs it was most often a disaster. People did not even want to talk in group chat unless it was to demand that everyone "HURRY UP!", or to chastize someone for something, or to /paste a combat log epeen every pull. And of course loot fights between selfish strangers. Once in a while you would meet someone who was actually social and strike up an in game friendship, but these became more rare as the douche baggery took over the system. It's like putting PUG type typical behaviors on steroids and then exposing them to insanity creating radiation. It's funny...I had the exact opposite experience as you were describing. It's almost as if our own personal experience doesn't qualify us to make statements like this" "Insta quing and teleporting to dungeons destroys communities." Arriving at a conclusion that is extremeley difficult to prove by exaggerating anecdotal evidence sure is a good way to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjohnp Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I literally cannot wait for this to be implemented. This should be a standard feature in MMOs. There is not a SINGLE REASON not to allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Here's the compromise: BW introduces a fully automated, cross server, queuing system for group content. People that don't like keep on making groups through chat channels, friend lists and guilds. People who like it, use the tool. Everyone's happy. 1) You conveniently ignore the negative macro effects this has on server communities. 2) it's not a compromise position, it's a pro-cross-server-LFD position, with a to hell with the rest of the player based clause attached to it. It's a selfish position, taken for selfish reasons. Now, if you want to discuss an actual compromise position (look it up, it's where both sides of a discussion come to agreement ON MIDDLE GROUND somehwere and actually compromise), then put out something middle ground and I'm sure you could create some valid discussion. As it is, you are simply pushing an extreme position and trying to disguise as a compromise. Edited February 7, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOrionX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I missed out on the majority of FPs because of this. I think it's totally awesome that some of you are cool with sitting on the Fleet for two hours trying to "build community" but I think it sucks. And by "build community" I mean spam chat until someone finally connects. The only rational argument I've seen against LFG is that it gives people the opportunity to be even more *****ish than usual because you might never see them again. Pretty sure they'd be almost as bad if not the same even if they were on your server. I can't stand quite a few on mine. Can we at least start with a server or two in each LFG group? Please? Seriously. There is another tool in game that helps you find groups. I think BW should improve this tool and make it easier to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eelowynn Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I wonder how auto grouping and joining warzones might destroy community and content. But maybe it's not comparable since it's grouping with random people for PvP and not PvE where there is Loot. I'll stick to my opinion: Rework the current LFG tool, make it actually usable and we're heading in the right direction. But BW still has to learn a lot in the usability department. I wouldn't cancel my subscription over a LFD tool. I don't think it destroys community. Community is destroyed by jerks abusing systems. And thats not bound to a LFD tool. Edited February 7, 2012 by Eelowynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOrionX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I literally cannot wait for this to be implemented. This should be a standard feature in MMOs. There is not a SINGLE REASON not to allow it. According to you. According to others there is a handful of reasons not to. To claim your way is the only right way is thick headed and naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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