Xephier Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Look, I'm totally the first one to bash a company for not getting things right the first time, but I'm not seeing a lot of positive comments on these forums at all. Fact: This game is incomplete, Bioware has maned up and admitted that. Fact: The reason this game is incomplete is NOT because of the makers of the game being slack half-arsed or slow in the head. Fact: The reason this game is incomplete is because some ***** CEO pushed it to the shelves before it was ready for release. Probably because they aren't making a whole lot of money while the game sits in development. Fact: If the developers had their word on it, games would not be released until they were fully complete, tested, and playable in all aspects. Opinion: Give the devs a few months before barfing all over them about how the game is crap on release. If the game progress stops dead flat in that time frame then have atter! Please sticky this because people need to stop and take a look at all the good things that Bioware has done for this game and has planned for this game before making flame-posts about quitting the game before it's been given a fighting chance. Edited February 7, 2012 by Xephier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tikume Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No, we're MMO players, we will bark, scream and shout, and fuel the fire! and the world turns.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixiooo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Look, I'm totally the first one to bash a company for not getting things right the first time, but I'm not seeing a lot of positive comments on these forums at all. Here's a fact for you; Where there is smoke. There is fire. Fact; The forums are also filled with self-entitled chums who think they invented everything and what they think is the only correct way of seeing it. Fact; I just made a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyz Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Fact: Flop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalKitty Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) *Wanders off to fetch some popcorn* Is this in 3D guys? Edited February 7, 2012 by TotalKitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulViolence Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Look, I'm totally the first one to bash a company for not getting things right the first time, but I'm not seeing a lot of positive comments on these forums at all. Fact: This game is incomplete, Bioware has maned up and admitted that. Fact: The reason this game is incomplete is NOT because of the makers of the game being slack half-arsed or slow in the head. Fact: The reason this game is incomplete is because some ***** CEO pushed it to the shelves before it was ready for release. Probably because they aren't making a whole lot of money while the game sits in development. Fact: If the developers had their word on it, games would not be released until they were fully complete, tested, and playable in all aspects. Opinion: Give the devs a few months before barfing all over them about how the game is crap on release. If the game progress stops dead flat in that time frame then have atter! Please sticky this because people need to stop and take a look at all the good things that Bioware has done for this game and has planned for this game before making flame-posts about quitting the game before it's been given a fighting chance. We are paying customers, we expect top quality and if we don't get it we will cry and throw temper tantrums and then quit. Edited February 7, 2012 by PeacefulViolence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Didnt you mean give Swtor a break? As in come back in 6 months and see if the game is any better? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmpearson Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Look, I'm totally the first one to bash a company for not getting things right the first time, but I'm not seeing a lot of positive comments on these forums at all. I'm sure every single negative comment is baseless nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xephier Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'm sure every single negative comment is baseless nonsense. This comment is /win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanscholo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Taking as gospel comments made by people that have hardly left their bedroom in 10 years is going to lead to the wrong impression of the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleeha Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I am paying them, I expect when they tell me they've completed a task that that task as been completed and is not going to fail. If my company tells me to do something, the guys who are paying me, they expect me to do it. If I keep doing it wrong or failing, I won't be getting paid much longer. Do you see the analogy here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKali Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) so the problem is: the customer pays for every god damn day/month waiting. So why should i give them months to fix something that was supposed to be in it? So in ur eyes i have to give Bioware money for time that i sit around doing nothing because i have completed everything in 1 1/2 months with several breaks in my playtime.....???? U rush through the FP's in flash because its so easy. The only thign that stops you from advancing even faster is the massive amount of bugs. Aside the massive lagging on the fleet/pvp,swtor is nice. But my mates already closed their Accounts,,hell even my brother who waited for that game for years with exitement is devastated saying: THAT PVP is crap. so yes, I give them ttime till march,if its not rocking my me,i will quit too. Sry Bioware, u sucked with Dragon Age 2,now i hope u don't disappoint me with SwToR. Edited February 7, 2012 by KingKali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xephier Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Didnt you mean give Swtor a break? As in come back in 6 months and see if the game is any better? I think so. I don't mean quit the game, honestly the first few months a game is out is the best time to build a guild, friends .etc. This is one thing that's been getting under my skin about mmo gamers, they fail to see logic. They rage-quit and bail the game within a month of getting it, and guess what that does, indeed it takes a massive chunk of cash away from the development of the game. And then people have the nerve to wonder why the game hasn't gotten better when they come back 6 months later and there's 9000 people playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xephier Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I am paying them, I expect when they tell me they've completed a task that that task as been completed and is not going to fail. If my company tells me to do something, the guys who are paying me, they expect me to do it. If I keep doing it wrong or failing, I won't be getting paid much longer. Do you see the analogy here? The game is MASSIVE, it's been in development for years, it's got more voice acting than 7 year vets like everquest2 will EVER see. It does have a few things that could be bettered with it but I've already seen from videos that several of those are already being worked on in a patch that will be implemented within a month. When trying to cover a LOT of ground in a relatively short time-frame, sometimes it's simply not possible to get everything perfect. Edit: people are flaming this post with no reasoning whatsoever, I already made my "this is my beef" posts and those got flamed. If you're going to flame, make up your damn mind of who's side you're on! Edited February 7, 2012 by Xephier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ykeasha Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Look, I'm totally the first one to bash a company for not getting things right the first time, but I'm not seeing a lot of positive comments on these forums at all. Fact: This game is incomplete, Bioware has maned up and admitted that. Fact: The reason this game is incomplete is NOT because of the makers of the game being slack half-arsed or slow in the head. Fact: The reason this game is incomplete is because some ***** CEO pushed it to the shelves before it was ready for release. Probably because they aren't making a whole lot of money while the game sits in development. . Naa the game is complete. SWTOR is a single player RPG at heart with some multiplayer aspects that allowed EA/bioware an excuse to charge a $15 fee. the game is not an MMO, and never will be. It sort of reminds me of neverwinter nights you know except without the monthly fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKali Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 well: march is deciding my accounts future. Hope i get more and harder content than kaon under SIege....way to easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) The game is MASSIVE, it's been in development for years, it's got more voice acting than 7 year vets like everquest2 will EVER see. It does have a few things that could be bettered with it but I've already seen from videos that several of those are already being worked on in a patch that will be implemented within a month. When trying to cover a LOT of ground in a relatively short time-frame, sometimes it's simply not possible to get everything perfect. Edit: people are flaming this post with no reasoning whatsoever, I already made my "this is my beef" posts and those got flamed. If you're going to flame, make up your damn mind of who's side you're on! Every MMO has been in development for years. Does that mean that every MMO is a winner or deserves to have players throw money at it indefinately until the devs fix the things that people want to be fixed? nope. There are lots of MMO's on the market, good and bad. Some have lots of potential, but a lot of them never actually fulfill that potential for one reason or another. Sometimes it's because of a poor launch and sometimes its down to arrogance on the part of devs (because they don't listen). This is a product that has to compete with TODAY'S market, not 2004's. That's the sad truth of the matter. My point here is that the sheer level of competition in the market is higher than ever. And demands on levels of acceptability are higher than ever. That's how markets work. Unfortunately that means more pressure is put on a product to reach that current bar. And manufacturers / developers / producers of goods only have themselves to blame if they are incapable of reaching that level of acceptability. They know the score. And they really cannot just expect people to throw money at them until they fix things. So, it's not surprising that people expect greater than what Bioware are providing in certain areas. For example: the game doesn't even have a /random or /roll feature that players can use. I mean, seriously! Edited February 7, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewiesArmy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Fact: If the developers had their word on it, games would not be released until they were fully complete, tested, and playable in all aspects. I really wouldn't want to wait 10 years for them to accomplish this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Look, I'm totally the first one to bash a company for not getting things right the first time, but I'm not seeing a lot of positive comments on these forums at all. There's a very good reason for that. Strip away the trolls and you have a lot of people who paid a great deal of money and then resubbed for a long period of time that are not seeing positive movement. Fact: This game is incomplete, Bioware has maned up and admitted that. REALLY? Where. Because the problem isn't that the game isn't complete. The Legacy system isn't in but hey, I can deal with that. There's still stuff to add into the game -- most people (who aren't worshiping Blizzard) can be patient in terms of that. Fact: The reason this game is incomplete is NOT because of the makers of the game being slack half-arsed or slow in the head. The reason the game has issues is EA wanted it kicked out the door in time for Christmas, yeah, fine. But too much of what is being fixed now should have, and could have, been patched up before the release. Opinion: Give the devs a few months before barfing all over them about how the game is crap on release. If the game progress stops dead flat in that time frame then have atter! Here's my problem with that whole, entire way of thinking. I'm not happy with the patch direction. I'm not feeling like these guys understand what is wrong with parts of the game from a design perspective. Ilum was bad at release , fine. Maybe it wasn't finished. But the new design wasn't tested worth spit, caused a PR nightmare, and the revised version doesn't fix a thing. I'm not happy with the patch COMPETANCY. I'm not bashing them because I'm being mean, but c'mon! You break the game, twice in a row, trying to fix things in a patch and then they aren't even fixed? Ability Delays for people , WZ wins not counting, Soa still derping all over the place and going "teehee, reset". There either needs to be more strict testing or someone needs to man up and say "hey look, we got some black boxes in this thing we don't get and we aren't going to be able to fix this inside of 3 months" or whatever. I'm not happy with communication. How do you "mistakenly" include something in something as important as patch notes? Don't they get checked over? Please sticky this because people need to stop and take a look at all the good things that Bioware has done for this game and has planned for this game before making flame-posts about quitting the game before it's been given a fighting chance . The only thing that decides what I , or anyone , does with their sub should be 1) Am I having fun right now 2) If I am not having fun, am I willing to pay for months of fixes on the chance I can have fun I am not having fun. I've already given Bioware their shot by signing up a six month sub when I realized "man, this is NOT fun". I don't have to cut them any more slack than that. If at the end of that six months there's no improvement, I'm going to bail, period. It would be pretty stupid of me not to give Bioware some idea of what I want to see in terms of improvement. I want to see professional, open clear communication and I'm seeing more of that (good). I want to see clean and steady patch progress and I'm not seeing that yet (bad). I want to see design changes and decisions that let me know the PVP , End Game and Crafting will be addressed and given as much attention, care, and forethought as the story element, and I'm not really seeing that yet (bad). I want to know that everyone who is playing on a rig that meets min spec can actually play the game and I'm not seeing that (bad). Right now, I'm not real happy. I maintain that as long as I offer up constructive criticism or at least impartial bias, that I have every right to voice said not happiness. And I'm not going to give them any more of a pass than the $150 I've already handed them for a product I'm not happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I agree with LogicalPremise, especially this bit: It would be pretty stupid of me not to give Bioware some idea of what I want to see in terms of improvement. I want to see professional, open clear communication and I'm seeing more of that (good). I want to see clean and steady patch progress and I'm not seeing that yet (bad). I want to see design changes and decisions that let me know the PVP , End Game and Crafting will be addressed and given as much attention, care, and forethought as the story element, and I'm not really seeing that yet (bad). I want to know that everyone who is playing on a rig that meets min spec can actually play the game and I'm not seeing that (bad). A lot of the time all we hear is vague references to things, but no substance. Because that is Bioware's way, they don't like to commit themselves and prefer to play it "cagey" so they can change their minds or make changes and not have to make excuses. Which from their perspective is probably great. But it's not good for the customers because they are left wondering WHEN something is going to get fixed / changed. The "mushroom method" of communication seldom works and often tends to piss your customers off. Just remember Bioware, its harder (and more expensive) to get a customer to return, than try to keep one. Edited February 7, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xephier Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 My response to most of this is that, hey, the game is very playable as it sits, I crashed out of it once, ok maybe twice, few minor issues, nothin to cry about, sure it's not geared to the mmoers in the sense of being a senseless grind game, ya it's played out a lot like an SP game, good! I have been playing mmos for years and get sick to death of the senseless grind with NO depth whatsoever. I'm not saying to stick with a game that you're not having fun with, but really, if you're not having any fun with this, then it probably wasn't your game type to begin with, or you're just as anal retentive as it gets about having every minor issue fixed NOW. Suck it up, enjoy all the good stuff that's available on release and the good stuffs/fixes coming in future patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selaik Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Fact: Flop. Fact: Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrmrstacrdwower Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No. Bioware gets no break or reprieve. Some of the issues in the game are unacceptable from a triple A company like Bioware to release what SWTOR is. 6 Years of development for a game the is essentially AoC 2 in a lot of it's design issues. Bioware gets no break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun-Runner Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Opinion: Give the devs a few months before barfing all over them about how the game is crap on release. If the game progress stops dead flat in that time frame then have atter!No. Thank you for the attempt though. I'm certain that they appreciate the support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knewt Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) So...let's see if you know what a fact really is..... Fact: This game is incomplete, Bioware has maned up and admitted that. Yes, that is a fact. BTW, it's manned up. Maned up sounds like that have some serious hair. I've seen the dev interviews, I doubt any of them could mane up. Fact: The reason this game is incomplete is NOT because of the makers of the game being slack half-arsed or slow in the head. Sorry, that's an opinion. I doubt you know the devs on a close enough level to actually state that as a fact. Fact: The reason this game is incomplete is because some ***** CEO pushed it to the shelves before it was ready for release. Probably because they aren't making a whole lot of money while the game sits in development. This might be a fact, but EA and BW have never confirmed it. So....that means this is your opinion. Fact: If the developers had their word on it, games would not be released until they were fully complete, tested, and playable in all aspects. Wow..again, you don't know the devs well enough to state this as fact. This is your opinion. Opinion: Give the devs a few months before barfing all over them about how the game is crap on release. If the game progress stops dead flat in that time frame then have atter! At least you identified this one correctly. Overall, you got 2 out of 5 (40%). I think the score speaks for itself. Please sticky this because people need to stop and take a look at all the good things that Bioware has done for this game and has planned for this game before making flame-posts about quitting the game before it's been given a fighting chance. My opinion: I will rant and rave about whatever I want. As long as I do it within the rules, BW says they will listen to me. I seriously doubt they actually listen though. BW has made a series of enormous mistakes since launch that should have been fixed in testing. Slicing, Ilum and bad patch notes are all examples of not properly testing the product before release. That said, I am still enjoying the leveling game. When that gets boring, I doubt I will continue to subscribe as the features required to keep me happy are non-existent or function very poorly. Edited February 7, 2012 by Knewt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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