Gunslinger - why no class should touch our DPS.

[HanSollo]

My main is now my level 50 slinger. I changed over from Sage. I am pretty epic'd out at this point, wearing quite a bit of Rakata gear and wielding 2 Rakata guns. My sage is also Rakata'd out with his rakata saber. I throw these credentials out there to let you know I have experience with not one, but two classes clearing everything on nightmare and doing lots of pvp.

 

We'll start with your main point.

 

your full of **** or PvP agenst ******* that dont pay attition to you

Argument:

 

While this is logical and I can see why you think this, in reality it is a flawed argument. The problem with this line of thinking is that if you make one class do more damage than the others, even if it is justified in that they can do nothing else, it soon becomes a game of anyone who wants to seriously clear end game content as fast as possible will bring almost exclusively slingers. Ya, you might squeeze in something else if you need their buff or someone who can sap or something, but mostly why would you bring anything but the highest dps class for your dps spots?

 

and you didnt address what they are talking about at all they are saying YOU CAN HEAL WE CANT which means why would they bring GS that cant off heal or throw up shields or a commando that can offer better utility and survivablity

1 - No versatility

 

While this is true, we have 3 different ways to do damage. Most classes only have 2. One pvp spec, and one pve spec. So, for example, if you hate the way a sage dps's by standing there spamming disturbances until something procs, well, you don't really have any other good options except to become a healer.

 

lol really 3 different ways try 2. SS is strait burst dmg with almost no tech attacks so all the dmg gets mitigated(that is the dmg that gets through shields and defense) the other 2 are the same tree reworked in one you get an AoE DoT and 2 single target DoTs the other you get....GASP....an AoE DoT and 2 single target DoTs(im talking about blazing speed not sabatoge) they only difference is type of dmg internal or elemental and neither of those matter at all cause they both ignore armor soooooooooo ya.

 

2 - Low to no mobility

 

This is true of only one spec. Also, even SS spec encourages getting up and moving every 6ish seconds to get another insta-charged burst and to refresh your ballistic dampeners.

 

try moving every 6 secs in PvP your face will get melted in 1.5 GCDs agenst people that arent totally retarded. because we have **** survivablity.

3 - Low HP Low Armor

 

This one is mostly true. We are squishy. That being said, we have much more armor than sages or non-tank shadows, and we do have some very nice defenses in defense screen and dodge. Also, it is a BIG deal that cover makes us immune to interrupts, unable to be charged to, and hunker down is flat out one of the best abilities in the game making us immune to all forms of CC or knockaround for 20!!! seconds. You can plant, turn on hunker down, and nobody can do anything to you except run away while you blast them to smithereens.

 

Now i know your playing agenst ******* on my server (Ajunta Pall) when i hunkerdown its like turning on the lights in a room full of cockroachs THEY ALL LOS ME if im lucky i will get a CB and TS before i cant see anyone and guess what if i move i lose it and its still goes on CD. HD is as usefull as a wet noodle in a jousting match. We do not have much more armor then sages/shadows we have at best marginally more and they have WAY more utility and survivablity then us. Dodge dosent work ageanst tech attacks and every class uses almost all tech/force attacks anyways. Defense screen stops about 1/2 an attack its like 1k its stupidly low

 

Sentinels/marauders are a bit silly in their ability to go invulnerable or to vanish (and be invulerable while invis) though. We can't compete with that.

 

/agree

4 - No CC

 

Flashbang is amazing in pvp as it is the only area effect CC that works on players. Although, slicing droids is an amazing CC when you do need it due to having no cool down. Sage force lift can CC anything, but it has a 1 minute cooldown, so if someone breaks your CC, tough cookies, can't re-cc.

 

Wow really and flash bang and its 5m radius dosent break on dmg now i know you dont play the class at all oh and it pretty much fills the bar of every one it hits so if they get hit with any cc at all after that their resolve bar is full really useful.........for the other team and FB is on a 1 min cd also so the AoE aspect is only useful when there are 5 guys on top of eachother and i assure you the only time your going to find that is when 1 person is swarmed and people will be throwing down AoEs so UNSUABLE except as an 8 sec get away when you are by urself and no one will break your cc and if they have no resolve built up.

 

5 - Low Utility

 

Our utility is in scrambling field. That ability is pretty damn good on some of the tougher fights in the nightmare ops. It's worth bringing a slinger just for that ability. We have the best armor reducing ability in flourish shot (20% reduction in a single debuff, no stacking required). XS Freighter Flyby is probably the single greatest AE ability in the whole game in both pvp and pve. In pvp, scrambling field can be ok, but it is our flashbangs and having the best "knock everything 20 miles away and root them ability" in pulse detonator.

 

So they reason your taking the pure dps class is so you can have him use 1 ability cause it makes fights easier.............this dosnt strike you as NOT RIGHT. You need a gunslinger not for the DPS but for the defensive ability thats on a 3 min CD really that is just dumb. XS freighter is ONLY GOOD FOR PvE......you dont PvP either.......or once agian you play agenst ******* THAT STAND IN FIRE NTM the 3 sec cast time and the huge Rep sign on the floor and if that wasnt enough the Lasers that let you know just how much time you have the only thing it is good for is intruping casters. Sigh its clear that either you have never played the class or............nope thats it you have never played the class.

 

So, as a fellow slinger, i'm here to tell you that your argument is pretty much wrong.

 

So, as an actual GS i can tell you he isnt wrong but you are.

Thank you.

 

Harrison BM GS Ajunta Pall

[Suntar]

Simply no.

 

GS's do good dps, do not get me wrong. However, its unfair to put a GS in competition for top dps with hybrid classes. Gunslinger's should be the glass cannons, simply because their is no other option they are not Hybrids. Pure DPS and pure DPS only.

 

Not sure if somebody has mentioned this but annoucements by developers in beta said it was their intention for pure dps classes not to have signifcantly higher dps and than hybrid classes using their Dps roles. They went on to say they did not consider say 5% extra significant.

 

Heavily disputed at the time by beta players but the developers made a good case for it, partly on the grounds that player could not spec dps and their healer/tank spec at the same time. Also if one /two classes could out dps others they would be the only desired class for progression in Ops etc. Lastly pure dps have 3 dps trees, so can have more flexibility in how they do their dps, some situations favour aoe's some dots and some single target sustained.

 

Their maybe a cover issue that needs to be dealt with but the basic arguement pure dps > hybrid dps is a none starter for this game.

[Ralnity]

Harrison BM GS Ajunta Pall

 

I would post a counter-argument to your barely legible and non-sensical post that did nothing but try and tell me I don't play the class, but there is nothing I could say that would make you look worse than your own post already does.

 

I guarantee I've seen more of this game's end game content than you, am better geared than you, and i'm fairly certain you have no clue about positioning or anything useful in pvp as well. Enjoy your fail sir.

[KingKolKappi]

I would post a counter-argument to your barely legible and non-sensical post that did nothing but try and tell me I don't play the class, but there is nothing I could say that would make you look worse than your own post already does.

 

I guarantee I've seen more of this game's end game content than you, am better geared than you, and i'm fairly certain you have no clue about positioning or anything useful in pvp as well. Enjoy your fail sir.

 

What spec do.you use in battlegrounds

[Davenmor]

Mh my main is gunslinger ss and i pretty much always end up top damage with a kill/death ratio of at least 10:1 ... but often i have like 50-60 kills with about 3 deaths.

 

I have about equal geared commandos in my pvp premade and they often end up about 5% behind me... so i cant dissagree more on the OP

 

 

note: i see some gunslingers that will finish a voidstar with (only) around 200k damage while sages/commandos have 400k+!

This imo is because of the high playerskill that the gunslinger requires in order to be realy on top. So this might be the most dificult class to play in pvp but if you train yourselve and start using all your abilities on an regular basis you will be rewarded!

[Xzenorath]

You sound very defensive, like you know deep down I am right and just don't want it to be true.

 

No every dps slot will not be filled only by pure dps. DPS for hybrids should remain totally viable. Its a tricky balance. But, unless they are better geared they should not be out dpsing pure dps.

 

Btw, it makes perfect sense. I know you would love to remain OP. However, that sort of mentality is what keeps mmo's from excelling.

 

You sir, are out of your mind.

 

If a raid leader doing hard/nightmare content is going to pick between a DPS who does X dmg or a DPS who does 20% more, he's going to fill every slot with the extra 20%. There is absolutely zero reason for a pure DPS specced Trooper or Sage to be outdps'd by a Gunslinger because "that's all we can do Q.Q". That is seriously the dumbest argument ever and there's a reason no MMO out there follows your train of thought.

 

I fail to see how Troopers are OP compared to your Gunslinger.

 

You guys complain about your AoE CC being on a 1 minute cooldown.

My single target CC is on a 1 minute cooldown.

 

Once the target reaches you in melee, you can kick em in the sack. I got nothing but a pushback, which you also have AND yours roots. Are you *********** kidding me right now? And to top that off, you can reduce a melee's accuracy by 45%? Yeah, where's my Trooper awesome utility?

 

You can instantly drop a target's armor by 20% for 45 seconds.

I have to spam Grav Round 3 times to get the same results and keep reapplying within 15 seconds.

 

You can shield everyone within the area

I can't

 

You get Dodge

I don't

 

You get Hunker Down

I don't

 

You get an interrupt

I don't

 

You guys complain about me having heals versus you having none. You clearly don't play a gunnery commando or you wouldn't even bother mentioning it. It costs 20% of my resources for 1 heal, which without talents specced into it heals for less than the damage I take while casting it, because I have 0 talents preventing pushbacks on heals. By the time it goes off, the measly 2k heal has been out damaged by at least 1 to 4k depending on the class you're up against. Healing as a non Combat Medic is absolutely worthless.

 

Your AoE takes the same amount of time mine takes to cast, except yours keeps going for another 6 second past that. Hell you can even reduce the cast time by 33%, I sure as hell can't.

 

Heavy armor versus Medium Armor is so irrelevant. Most classes bypass armor anyways, honestly, I don't think anyone even comes close to Sorcerer's survivability and they're wearing light armor, that's how pointless armor actually is.

 

If the issue is that you find yourself too squishy and therefore feel you should be doing more damage to compensate, you're wrong. They won't do it, just stop asking for it. They went over that times and times again in beta and explained why.

 

What you guys need is extra tools to survive longer. A shield or vanish type ability would probably go a long way for Slingers.

 

I don't know why everyone's having such a ***** over troopers. Speccing gunnery is the equivalent of playing an arcane mage without all the cool tricks.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Xzenorath

[maximusedward]

WoW, at least OP knows it class.

Solution on how to fix GS to actually be a dps class that can outdps a hybrid? re roll into one.

Edited February 10, 2012 by maximusedward

[chamberlord]

You sir, are out of your mind.

 

If a raid leader doing hard/nightmare content is going to pick between a DPS who does X dmg or a DPS who does 20% more, he's going to fill every slot with the extra 20%. There is absolutely zero reason for a pure DPS specced Trooper or Sage to be outdps'd by a Gunslinger because "that's all we can do Q.Q". That is seriously the dumbest argument ever and there's a reason no MMO out there follows your train of thought.

 

I fail to see how Troopers are OP compared to your Gunslinger.

 

You guys complain about your AoE CC being on a 1 minute cooldown.

My single target CC is on a 1 minute cooldown.

 

Once the target reaches you in melee, you can kick em in the sack. I got nothing but a pushback, which you also have AND yours roots. Are you *********** kidding me right now? And to top that off, you can reduce a melee's accuracy by 45%? Yeah, where's my Trooper awesome utility?

 

You can instantly drop a target's armor by 20% for 45 seconds.

I have to spam Grav Round 3 times to get the same results and keep reapplying within 15 seconds.

 

You can shield everyone within the area

I can't

 

You get Dodge

I don't

 

You get Hunker Down

I don't

 

You get an interrupt

I don't

 

You guys complain about me having heals versus you having none. You clearly don't play a gunnery commando or you wouldn't even bother mentioning it. It costs 20% of my resources for 1 heal, which without talents specced into it heals for less than the damage I take while casting it, because I have 0 talents preventing pushbacks on heals. By the time it goes off, the measly 2k heal has been out damaged by at least 1 to 4k depending on the class you're up against. Healing as a non Combat Medic is absolutely worthless.

 

Your AoE takes the same amount of time mine takes to cast, except yours keeps going for another 6 second past that. Hell you can even reduce the cast time by 33%, I sure as hell can't.

 

Heavy armor versus Medium Armor is so irrelevant. Most classes bypass armor anyways, honestly, I don't think anyone even comes close to Sorcerer's survivability and they're wearing light armor, that's how pointless armor actually is.

 

If the issue is that you find yourself too squishy and therefore feel you should be doing more damage to compensate, you're wrong. They won't do it, just stop asking for it. They went over that times and times again in beta and explained why.

 

What you guys need is extra tools to survive longer. A shield or vanish type ability would probably go a long way for Slingers.

 

I don't know why everyone's having such a ***** over troopers. Speccing gunnery is the equivalent of playing an arcane mage without all the cool tricks.

 

So this post was to point out all the skills GS have that your trooper doesnt? Am I suppose to respond by pointing out all the skills you have that GS dont?

 

Also, I said 10-20% meaning between the two. Sure if really lucky they may get 20. However, you are arguing pretty much that everyone who rolled a smuggler pretty much messed up. I guess they should all re-roll sages and troopers. Makes since then they would be more viable.

 

Again you are sooo defensive, you are trolling our boards because you know eventually they will balance out the classes. Enjoy being OP for now, dude. It won't last forever.

[Xzenorath]

So this post was to point out all the skills GS have that your trooper doesnt? Am I suppose to respond by pointing out all the skills you have that GS dont?

 

Also, I said 10-20% meaning between the two. Sure if really lucky they may get 20. However, you are arguing pretty much that everyone who rolled a smuggler pretty much messed up. I guess they should all re-roll sages and troopers. Makes since then they would be more viable.

 

Again you are sooo defensive, you are trolling our boards because you know eventually they will balance out the classes. Enjoy being OP for now, dude. It won't last forever.

 

Go ahead and list everything my Trooper gets that you don't.

I'll be here and waiting, it won't take you too long.

 

10-20% is HUGE. On encounters where you would do 500k DMG, you're talking about giving smugglers an extra 100k damage, do you realize how idiotic this sounds? 4 Gunslingers would do 2.4M dmg in the same amount of time 4 pure DPS specced classes aside from GS' would do 2M. That's pretty much the equivalent of having an extra DPSer, do you understand how silly your suggestion is now?

 

You seem to be under the impression that doing the same damage than another class who specced full DPS is somehow a screw up. You feel entitled to more damage for no reason other than those people can respec to something else they don't care about. I'm not going to roll Combat Medic, if that's what I wanted to do, I would've rolled one. I rolled Gunnery and I'm specced pure DPS, just like you did with your Gunslinger. If you were doing LESS damage than other pure DPSers, than I would agree with you, however that's not the case.

 

I'm not defensive and I'm not trolling anything.

 

I'm giving you facts that disprove your argument that Gunslingers are useless in their current state compared to "hybrids" who specced pure DPS.

 

It's purely and simply not true. I also find it hilarious that I'm considered an OP class while you get a dozen extra tools compared to my heavy armor; so ridiculous.

[arsenate]

I am mostly champion geared with only 2 column 2 rakata pieces. Stupid hard mode EV dropped COLUMNI, THANKS BW (and thanks again for ignoring the ticket)!!!! and I outdps most in pve (you can see on the fourth boss in EV tbh and thats tough for ss because of marauder interrupts whenever you speed shot)

[Battlereaver]

I feel majority of our problem is the broken cover mechanic. When I roll into cover look no more global cool down but wait... what is this? I rolled in to cover... I got my cover skills bar i waited one second and I hit charged shot and I did a quick shot? But wait quick shot is my standing skill in the same slot why did I shoot that from cover? Cover lag... Also the damage avoidance of 30% only works on ranged weapon based attacks (Full auto, "auto attacks", sniper shots, etc..) All the tech and force based attacks work wonderfully through it. That and anyone who complains that they cant jump, pull, or get to me in cover needs to learn how to counter it. I rerolled a vanguard (mostly because I can do a ton of DPS or Tank which this is what this thread is about versus DPS which will make me feel more useful to my guild) and everytime i see a GS/Sniper hit cover I go "Alright I got this" I tell my friends to get ready over vent to focus him (He is the softest and easiest to bring down for lack of escape mechanisms) I cryo grenade he pops out of cover I harpoon shot him to me he enters cover blows me back but by then its too late my friends and teammates notice there is an enemy in our mist and tear it down. Now i know the biggest comparison in here has been to commando which if they were in this situation they would of got pulled in easier and burned too. But the difference is I have seen commandos land in a enemy team and stand there like a tank and walk around forever before being brought down by the whole other team. A little something to do with 35% reduced damage bubble while walking around and heavy armor with high amounts of hp versus our 20% scramble field that breaks when we get pushed around out of cover.

 

Now for the OPs side of the argument I feel that we should do more DPS in some fashion due to our lack of options to be viable in a group. If they can bring a vanguard or a commando who says "Sure if need be I can tank or heal when the need arises" versus a gunslinger who pew pew's and when targeted by an ops boss turns in to toilet paper versus a super soaker. But granted I feel we already do a ton of DPS as it is, I found a good rotation that keeps me above 60% energy as a SS build and I generally can tell my dps versus anothers helps beat enraged timers. Without a damage meter we are barking up a tree and an invisible squirrel claiming this and claiming that. The best arguments I hear is I pulled threat or I killed this mob faster than you did. Well woop-de-doo I use surrender more or less depending on who is pulling threat or have a better sustained dps rotation. We are shooting in the dark and making accusations with out reliable data. PVP numbers are skewed and always will be I hit 300k damage done on my level 12 sent because I had a healer follow me around and a tank guard me so i could dps for as long as i wanted. I would like to follow up on this when we get damage meters or combat logs so we can see where the issues lie. I have a Sage friend who is DPS spec and is in similar quality gear and our computers are side by side watching our numbers he swears I do way more damage than him. But because my numbers say 5-6k a hit and his say 1-2k a hit doesnt mean anything. He could be hitting it 2-3 times in the time it takes me to hit it once. I am not sure and will not make an accusation until we get some data to go off of.

 

 

But cover is seriously broken in pvp and less so in ops. The whole cover lag upsets me and the fact that people tout cover like it makes it so I cant get to you is weak. There are a ton of ways to counter it and it only gives us a 30% mitigation against weapon based attacks unless you are hiding behind good cover and not popping up to take shots. But then they will tech/force attack you until you let go of that box. (Btw sents out there, force stasis breaks cover. Then you can leap to us and then push us and leap to us again. Hunker down only works if we know you are about to do something and even then it last a few seconds and has a minute CD or 45sec with talents) In the end it boils down to play smart and know your enemies weaknesses. I just feel in PVP our cover mechanic can use some tweaks or bug fixes and I will be alright with it. And get us some damage meters and combat logs!

[SentinelDranoel]

multiple threads with this topic, keep it coming. the devs need to pick up on this.

[Xzenorath]

Now for the OPs side of the argument I feel that we should do more DPS in some fashion due to our lack of options to be viable in a group. If they can bring a vanguard or a commando who says "Sure if need be I can tank or heal when the need arises" versus a gunslinger who pew pew's and when targeted by an ops boss turns in to toilet paper versus a super soaker.

 

Yeah, We all keep 2 decked out sets of gear for each spec and will totally step out of the Operation, head back to the fleet, pay 90k credits to respec to heals, re-setup all of our keybinds properly, head back to the operation, finish the next encounter, and then do it all over again to go back to DPS.

 

That happens, all, the, time.

 

Quit using that argument, it's not true and it's not valid. Nobody does that. You're either DPS or Tank or Heals. You don't "just" switch like WoW.

[Vrahj]

I agree and dissagree with a lot of you. For those of you who say GS die quickly and we need more survivlablity, sit down and be quite. We die quickly because we are supposed to as a support roll. If you think we should should just go in there guns ablaze and drop people like flies pick a Trooper. To effectivly play the GS you have to have the right tactics, understand our roll, and have very good situation awareness. Give it time and learn the tactics of the GS before you complain. 1 vs 1 you shouldnt loose (unless they get the jump on you) period. We are not OP or UP, just play it correctly and you will see. Thats my 2 cents and good luck!

[Formulka]

What about a small chance for our damage to bleed through defenses if we crit for example? Not increasing our overall damage all that much, but giving us chance to harm the classes usually hard to bring down.

[Battlereaver]

Yeah, We all keep 2 decked out sets of gear for each spec and will totally step out of the Operation, head back to the fleet, pay 90k credits to respec to heals, re-setup all of our keybinds properly, head back to the operation, finish the next encounter, and then do it all over again to go back to DPS.

 

That happens, all, the, time.

 

Quit using that argument, it's not true and it's not valid. Nobody does that. You're either DPS or Tank or Heals. You don't "just" switch like WoW.

 

 

This does happen all the time, when the need arises and that person is willing to do what it takes to get our group through this ops they will do it. And after enough runs of getting gear drops you start to get a second set anyways with the thought process of thinking I might want to tank/heal/dps in the future if they ever introduce dual spec. I am speaking totally from my guild experience where we do what we can to help each other out and get through the ops successfully. We even put some of our credits towards the respec when it gets to cost that much and it hasn't reset yet. Also if you have to walk out of the instance to go respec you can keep the other set in your bank just in-case. I have a commando guildmate who has a full set of healing gear and DPS gear because he maxed out on DPS gear so started getting the healing gear because he could.

 

The point being is you CAN do this and I CANNOT as a gunslinger. That automatically makes you more valuable to the guild than I. If you cannot get into OPs because your guild is full up on DPS but man could they use another healer, BAM you respec swap some gear around and whoa what is this you get to go now. The point is we picked the gunslinger tree to be a dps granted but that was at level 10 when we were young and in high school. The other classes picked theirs and get to 50 and go wait I could be more useful if I heal/tank which I can do either if I prefer. The fact that the argument brought up the worse case scenario that you do it every time you run something just enforces that you are more important for your options of roles than I and more versatile.

 

But this is also about hybrid versus pure dps damage. Which until we get a damage meter I cannot argue who does more damage and why I should be buffed/nerfed. But personally I think a DPS spec hybrid should be dang close to my DPS because of enrage timers and what not. I think a 5% difference would suffice but would be solely dependent on gear and skill and rotation methods.

[Junostorm]

Yeah, We all keep 2 decked out sets of gear for each spec and will totally step out of the Operation, head back to the fleet, pay 90k credits to respec to heals, re-setup all of our keybinds properly, head back to the operation, finish the next encounter, and then do it all over again to go back to DPS.

 

That happens, all, the, time.

 

Quit using that argument, it's not true and it's not valid. Nobody does that. You're either DPS or Tank or Heals. You don't "just" switch like WoW.

 

Wait what? What stops you from using healing abilities while in DPS spec? What stops you from using tanking abilities in DPS spec?

 

Perhaps you need to rethink your position.

[Xzenorath]

Wait what? What stops you from using healing abilities while in DPS spec? What stops you from using tanking abilities in DPS spec?

 

Perhaps you need to rethink your position.

 

Roll a Trooper.

Level to 50.

Spec gunnery.

Try it.

 

 

Let me know it goes

 

Throwing 3-ammo heals around with zero talents boosting those heals is the equivalent of trying to bandage a DPS on the side. The amount of time I waste healing people for 2000 a pop is damage we'll miss at the end when the enrage timer hits and we wipe.

 

Believe me, it's completely worthless. I've tried, multiple times, I don't even bother anymore. If the healers can't keep up or people aren't smart enough to move when they should, people start dieing and we wipe and start over.

 

My 2.5 second cast 2000 heal won't save anybody, all it's doing is screwing up my rotation and drying up 3 ammo, forcing me to alter my rotation even further with hammer shots, reducing my damage output even further.

 

You know what's better than doing what I just listed above? Using an ability that reduces the damage taken by everybody within 10 meters by 20%. THAT, is what utility and support is all about, not wasting ammo and time throwing heals that heal for as much as a HoT crit on healing specced classes.

 

That ability alone allows us to stay in on the first boss in EV and keep DPSing while the boss AoE's instead of hiding behind the pillars. The second time around, we have a sentinel boosting the dmg and heals by 15%.

 

You know what would happen if those 2 classes were replaced by "OP" Troopers? We'd be hiding behind pillars and probably miss the enrage timer.

 

You guys don't realize how some of your tools are so incredible compared to my Grav Round spam snorefest.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Xzenorath

[Battlereaver]

This debate is about the utility of each class in a specific scenario it is about DPS comparison versus the versatility of that other class. You can keep up in DPS with us and we can toss a scrambling field up once every 2 minutes (unless its a boss that does the aoe knockup or backs because hunker down doesnt always work and scrambling field gets turned off). Also if you had a group of all troopers couldnt you all pop your personal damage reduction bubbles that do 35% reduction? I think that would work better than a smattering of other people with a 20% reduction in a given area. Dont get me wrong it is a great skill and it helps in time of dire need. But again that is circumstantial based on a good use for it. What I was trying to convey is that group doing EV has pretty much each type of DPS and you are doing well. Your healer DC's or quits you check your guild and friend lists and see DPS are on but no other healers. Can you respec to heals and grab your heal set? Here is 10K from each of us to do so we want to finish this tonight. Run in respec swap gear invite another DPS filler bam good to go. You do a great job healing high five everyone when the run is over you go back drop a butt load to go back to DPS spec.

 

There are other fights too where a Gunslinger sucks bad. Like the final boss in EV when everyone has to drop off of ledges to get to the bottom. Most everyone else can heal when they land so they can keep moving. Gunslingers have to stop a healer and get a heal or we die from the falling. Sure your heal is not as good as if you were in heal spec but if you are not spamming attacks like you are LOS in PVP or this example in EV your heal is a big help to yourself and not putting a burden on others. I also find that if I have to run up in melee range with a melee heavy ops group to do my scramble field I have to run over and pop it and run back out and if the boss is doing AOE melee ranged damage I added another person to get healed in the mix. Everything is circumstantial and works in their own way. The debate is the versatility versus the damage results (which is why I rerolled a trooper) if I can be more versatile and help do things more often I would like to if there is no added benefit to being a pure dps class rather than a class specific skill which is not required to do anything but eases the burdens on the healers.

[Xzenorath]

Then roll a class that can heal, you rolled a smuggler and specced him Gunslinger. Live with it. You rolled a class that could only DPS, now you wish you could heal but you can't, so you want more damage.

 

 

I wish my car could fly. Perhaps I should've bought a plane, at least you can drive AND fly a plane. Amirite?

 

You wanted to DPS, you rolled a class that DPS's as good as every other class out there and provides utility the other "hybrids" can't provide. That's your cookie, not extra damage. Sounds to me like some of you are sore about picking a DPS only class and now wish it could heal. Reroll a healer if you want to heal, your class' DPS is up there with the rest of us and then some. It doesn't need a damage buff

Edited February 10, 2012 by Xzenorath

[Battlereaver]

...so now we're justifying giving a 10 to 20% damage buff to Gunslingers because in the event that a healer disconnects, your trooper can respec to heals.

 

You still need to find a DPS replacement.

 

I really don't follow your logic.

 

You rolled a class that could only DPS, now you wish you could heal but you can't, so you want more damage.

 

 

I wish my car could fly. Perhaps I should've bought a plane, at least you can drive AND fly a plane. Amirite?

 

You wanted to DPS, you rolled a class that DPS's as good as every other class out there and provides utility the other "hybrids" can't provide. That's your cookie, not extra damage.

 

What are you talking about? You cant combine 20 peoples arguments into one statement to make it look like we are asking the world.

 

My logic:

 

Everyone Can DPS Equally as it appears now there is no damage meters this means EVERYONE can DPS given their gear and build. Finding a DPS is 40x easier than finding a healer or tank.

 

I claimed to be ignorant due to the lack of data provided on the damage meters. And in the end if we had a 5% increase over hybrids I would be satisfied and feel like I rolled a DPS class to be just that the best DPS I can be. Now if I can do other things and do the same amount of damage with a gear change and respec and not an entire releveling of a character then I feel more versatile and my options are greater at level 50.

 

The logic is behind why not be a commando? If you can heal or do the exact same amount of DPS then what is the benefit to being a gunslinger? I know the game would be stupid if everyone rolled troopers but you have to look at it from our world. We rolled DPS to be the best DPS and it feels like that is not the case but rather we are locked into being a dps instead.

 

Also I understand with enrage timers you have to do a lot of DPS to beat them and every class spec'd as a DPS should do a good amount to not become worthless this is a balance issue and not excluding one class or the other. But there also has to be a thing to attract people to play Gunslingers rather than the fun story line and the fact you hold two guns. People are not seeing it, most people hate cover and go over this same argument "If i can wear heavy armor and have the option to tank/heal or be a viable DPS why not?" Gunslinger needs something to make it more attractive. I love the class I think it has great potential and I like doing loads of damage but like what has been overstated if I can do the same amount of damage while in heavy armor why not? But we do not know this for a fact and will not know it until we get a damage meter set in place to know for sure where everyone lies.

 

So as of now I say fix the bugs and the issues with cover but as for buffs and nerfs leave that to the Devs or until we get accurate data in our hands to compare.

[Xzenorath]

You get utility the trooper doesn't get. Hybrid DPSers specced pure DPS bring DPS to the table and DPS only.

 

I don't get a 5% damage buff or a 5% crit buff, I give everyone more HP

 

I don't get a 15 sec damage & healing or damage taken buff

 

 

All I do is damage, by going pure DPSer, you and sentinels were provided with utility the other hybrids don't bring and while some of you appear to be dismissing these cooldowns as situational and barely worth mentioning, they're huge in situations that require them. I'll take a smuggler over a trooper any day, without meters to verify if they're within 5% or not of each other, because of that 15 sec buff.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Xzenorath

[Battlereaver]

So what you are saying is that our group buff and scrambling field are what we get? And what is odd is its a trooper saying give me these things rather than another me... Sure when playing my alts I would like for a 5% crit chance increase as well. But also I can solo my entire story line on my trooper without breaking a sweat where my gunslinger it was close or I invited a friend to avoid the die and try again methods.

 

 

I understand what you are trying to do. You like your trooper and you are trying to down play its usefulness to avoid flooding the game with them. But you got to toss us a bone man, how many gunslingers do you see on your server? I see regularly 3-5 including myself in the 50's range. This is because of what I told you already you cannot say we get a group buff and a AOE damage reduction for a few seconds enjoy! When we are in a pvp match watching you wade through their team and getting near same amount of damage done as us when we are exploding on contact. We have to have something else that attracts people to play this class. And if you honestly feel we get it good, Roll a gunslinger and join us. That is what this thread is about we want to feel useful and become a more appealing class to play. I am not saying I do **** damage or I want to do more I am saying that with out accurate numbers we cannot say that but we need to fix our bugs and make this class more appealing.

[Cynan_Ski]

I thought this was the gunslinger forums not the trooper forum

[Xzenorath]

So what you are saying is that our group buff and scrambling field are what we get? And what is odd is its a trooper saying give me these things rather than another me... Sure when playing my alts I would like for a 5% crit chance increase as well. But also I can solo my entire story line on my trooper without breaking a sweat where my gunslinger it was close or I invited a friend to avoid the die and try again methods.

 

 

I understand what you are trying to do. You like your trooper and you are trying to down play its usefulness to avoid flooding the game with them. But you got to toss us a bone man, how many gunslingers do you see on your server? I see regularly 3-5 including myself in the 50's range. This is because of what I told you already you cannot say we get a group buff and a AOE damage reduction for a few seconds enjoy! When we are in a pvp match watching you wade through their team and getting near same amount of damage done as us when we are exploding on contact. We have to have something else that attracts people to play this class. And if you honestly feel we get it good, Roll a gunslinger and join us. That is what this thread is about we want to feel useful and become a more appealing class to play. I am not saying I do **** damage or I want to do more I am saying that with out accurate numbers we cannot say that but we need to fix our bugs and make this class more appealing.

 

Funnily enough that's exactly what I did. My trooper blows, I don't know why everyone is in love with troopers without playing them. It's the most boring class in the game hands down. You remember Arcane mages? Welcome to Troopers. Arcane blast x3, Arcane missiles, arcane barrage. This is exactly what my trooper does, except I don't get Blink, or Frost Nova, or Ice Block. They even gave me PoM, wee.

 

Seriously, go back a few posts and look at all the utility Gunslingers get in comparison to Troopers, I put up the list, it's ridiculous. If what you enjoy doing is spamming Grav Round and flexing about your heavy armor, go on homie but you'll be really disappointed. Everything you do requires you to stand still and turret DPS, just like your Gunslinger.

 

Sure, the damage is there, as it should, for all DPS specced classes. I'm sorry, but this is the way the game is balanced. Bioware stated times and times again in beta that they can't have some classes doing 10% more damage than another fully DPS specced class, because if you brought 5 of them, you effectively get 50% more damage than a group composition without them.

 

What they did instead is give you and Sentinels extra tools and buffs that help your group perform better, this is what makes people want sentinels and gunslingers over other DPSers in their groups. Any min-maxer should see this easily.

 

As for the population balance for Gunslingers being low according to you, this has more to do with what people want to play, not whether or not another class is better. There's plenty of nerds who would rather swing a glow stick around than play Han Solo. There's plenty of people who would rather be Fett than some no name Imp Agent Sniper.

 

It doesn't make your class any worse than the other DPSers out there, it just means you get all the loot and a guaranteed spot in all the raids, unlike my bland Gunnery Trooper.