Convince me to use Combat for PvP?

[Drin-King]

I really want to use Combat. Ataru procs, Blade rush and 100% crit chance on blade storm every 9 seconds. It all seems pretty swell, but for some reason I just can't switch. I'm currently... Watchman ofcourse. I didn't pick Sentinel to do damage over time, and personally I hate this spec, but it's so good at well... everything... that I can't make myself swap. Even Force Exhaustion/Sweep bombing doesn't seem that good compared to what Watchman can do right now.

 

Convince me to swap. Combat or Focus actually, not bothered. One of these played well has to do something better than Watchman... Right?

[TheWhiskey]

Go focus, run into blob, force sweep and it's guaranteed to make you smile.

 

Every time.

[slowantics]

combat is my favoirte. but at lvl 50 my bladestorm does 3.3k after blade rush and precision slash. you only have 6 seconds to use bs too. if u get knocked back youll have to wait 16seconds or w.e to use precision again.

watchman does everythign combat and better. sadly im not a fan of dots. but i have to stick with watchman because its stronger. and ppl rarely let you in hordmode fp with combat

[NotARobot]

I was a big combat guy for a while, but the most I ever did was like 180k damage in a warzone.

 

Switched over to watchman - now I regularly top damage in warzones, usually doing over 300k

 

 

I know there are guys that say combat can hold up just as well as watchman, but after seeing the disparity in overall damage between the two specs personally, I will never go back to combat unless it receives a substantial buff

[Adrykk]

I rolled a sentinel to be a disciplined 2-weapon fighting blender. I have 1 job. Take 2 lightsabers and relentlessly assault my opposition. That's it. And that's what I wanted.

 

I don't want to rely on setting people on fire. I'm not here to have a fuggin BBQ. I want to take my sabers and stab someone IN THE FACE. repeatedly.

 

Like the OP, I'm not a fan of DOTs, but looking over the skill tree of watchman again and again, it does kinda make me seethe with rage at how far 'on the side of caution' that the Combat tree was put together with. I mean, there are 5 talents in the tree that are strung together to force you into a certain outfit. That is excessively restricting.

 

There are not many single talents that are very enticing on their own, the ones that are, Watchman has an equally or more-so enticing ability.

 

From what I've seen, we're also the only tree in the game that has a talent that doesn't do anything. Literally, nothing... until it ends. No bonus or buff while it's active... but after 6 seconds, when it ends, you get 1 free focus... wow. That talent would be combat trance. And it's based upon RNG on a buggy mechanic. Blade rush, not counting (that's later in the game), I'm spending a talent point for a 20% chance to get 1 focus after 6 seconds of waiting for it. Meanwhile, I get absolutely no benefit during that time....

 

If you'd like combat trance to be useful while it's... well, actually active.. You have to take another talent. And that allows your bladestorm (which they've rammed down our throats, nor does it synergize well with combat, and doesn't benefit from our form), to crit. WHY BLADESTORM? Why not Blade Rush, Zealous Strike, Precision Slash, Cauterize or any other SENTINEL ability. Some ability that actually remembers that we wield 2 weapons.

 

I'm sorry, but I took off the training wheels when I left Tythos, alright?

 

Everything that we have relies on very rare circumstances. When those circumstances come together without fail, you'll have a shining moment and hope for the best because while you wait for the cooldowns on your abilities. you're ridiculously vulnerable.

 

Yet I still play combat, because, even if it is weak, it's the style I want to play. And I can only hope that Bioware, in their infinite wisdom will bring us up to par.

 

I'd still rather be weak now and get buffed than to be OP and get nerfed. Nobody likes to be nerfed.

 

It's like gas prices (but introverted) . they go up and up, you complain, then become complacent, then when they go down even the smallest amount, you're happy about it, even if it's still far higher than what it originally was.

[nschlan]

The only reason I don't play Combat is that 2 of the biggest talents are bugged for me, Overload Sabers and Opportune Strike (I believe they're bugged because I crit on BS for 1.7k less than the Combat guy in my guild who is pretty much equally geared). That's it. People say Watchman has better "utility and support". If you want that crap then play a different class. Sentinels are a pure DPS class and have 1 job: Destroy an enemy as quickly as possible. Nonbugged Combat Sents do that amazingly well. Is Watchman good? Absolutely. I would simply just prefer to play Combat. Edited February 6, 2012 by nschlan

[SMNShuichi]

I play a Combat Sentinel and while it's fun, there are some serious problems with the way combat animations are for Sentinel. (I also have a Marauder, also on Combat spec) and Marauder's animations flow much more fluidly into each other. Although the game describes the Combat spec as one designed for quickly dispatching foes, until Bioware addresses the disparity between the animations for Sentinel vs Marauder it's not going to see it's full potential.

[Munx]

Exactly

 

I also have both a 50 marauder and a 50 sentinel, both combat/carnage.

 

Blade rush has severe issues with the animation, it causes massive ability delay (even after "fix") and sometimes it dosnt go of at all, it also does not look as good as massacre does, and does not feel fluid when mixed with other abilities like massacre does.

 

The ability delay on blade rush costs us a sickening amount of dps we should have had.

[Novastinger]

Combat has a couple nice items for pvp, like a root added to crippling throw (though it's a costly 3 focus and meager 10m range), and Force Camouflage breaking snares/roots, but overall I feel either watchman or focus are better for pvp.

[Cooperal]

In spite of the generally agreed lesser damage, combat finds an extra use in PvP with the roots of crippling throw and master strike. You can combine it with other roots and stuns to keep someone in place for over 15 seconds, maybe adding to that with a recast of crippling throw. The 3 focus is also generally miniscule as I find combat to be the easiest for generating and saving their focus.

 

Find who your teammates are attacking and disrupt the target to it's grave. Faster ending for all involved. Those pesky circle strafers and kiters will not be so responsible for taking precious time from you and your teammates damage outputs.

[SteveGarbage]

Why would you want to be convinced into using Combat in PvP when both other trees are pretty superior?

 

Combat appears to be the generally least useful in that realm and a big part of that is the animation problem as stated before. Watchman has good overall damage and utility and Focus is built well for PvP with big sweeps and Transcendence up time among other benefits.

 

You can pick the least good option. Go ahead. But don't expect great results.

[Skeptical]

I rolled a sentinel to be a disciplined 2-weapon fighting blender. I have 1 job. Take 2 lightsabers and relentlessly assault my opposition. That's it. And that's what I wanted.

 

I don't want to rely on setting people on fire. I'm not here to have a fuggin BBQ. I want to take my sabers and stab someone IN THE FACE. repeatedly.

 

Like the OP, I'm not a fan of DOTs, but looking over the skill tree of watchman again and again, it does kinda make me seethe with rage at how far 'on the side of caution' that the Combat tree was put together with. I mean, there are 5 talents in the tree that are strung together to force you into a certain outfit. That is excessively restricting.

 

There are not many single talents that are very enticing on their own, the ones that are, Watchman has an equally or more-so enticing ability.

 

From what I've seen, we're also the only tree in the game that has a talent that doesn't do anything. Literally, nothing... until it ends. No bonus or buff while it's active... but after 6 seconds, when it ends, you get 1 free focus... wow. That talent would be combat trance. And it's based upon RNG on a buggy mechanic. Blade rush, not counting (that's later in the game), I'm spending a talent point for a 20% chance to get 1 focus after 6 seconds of waiting for it. Meanwhile, I get absolutely no benefit during that time....

 

If you'd like combat trance to be useful while it's... well, actually active.. You have to take another talent. And that allows your bladestorm (which they've rammed down our throats, nor does it synergize well with combat, and doesn't benefit from our form), to crit. WHY BLADESTORM? Why not Blade Rush, Zealous Strike, Precision Slash, Cauterize or any other SENTINEL ability. Some ability that actually remembers that we wield 2 weapons.

 

I'm sorry, but I took off the training wheels when I left Tythos, alright?

 

Everything that we have relies on very rare circumstances. When those circumstances come together without fail, you'll have a shining moment and hope for the best because while you wait for the cooldowns on your abilities. you're ridiculously vulnerable.

 

Yet I still play combat, because, even if it is weak, it's the style I want to play. And I can only hope that Bioware, in their infinite wisdom will bring us up to par.

 

I'd still rather be weak now and get buffed than to be OP and get nerfed. Nobody likes to be nerfed.

 

It's like gas prices (but introverted) . they go up and up, you complain, then become complacent, then when they go down even the smallest amount, you're happy about it, even if it's still far higher than what it originally was.

 

Combat Trance gives you 100% Crit on Blade Storm while it's active. So it gives a pretty substantial burst opportunity then grants 1 focus, so for the price of one Slash you do way more damage with a guaranteed crit.

 

Watchman has no equivalent burst for that.

 

Granted, I've never played Combat. I'm just going by the tooltips and what not. I started my Sentinel as Watchman and I'm staying Watchman because I've been happy with it's performance in both PvE and PvP.

 

Every tree for every class should be as balanced in PvE and PvP as Watchman.

 

I'd love for my Defense Guardian to be just as rewarding in PvP as it is in PvE, but that's just not the case. Adjustments need to be made, but it seems like the developers are too busy finding ways to ensure that melee is always gimped in PvP while Sorcerers/Sages are ungodly, with Sorcerers having the animation advantage.

 

I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that one of the combat devs exclusively plays a Sorcerer too, as he freely admitted in an interview.

[HiroAyami]

There is no reason to switch except for preference and fluff.

 

With Blade Rush having animation issues, Ataru Form not proccing correctly, and not having Overload Saber...

 

The only benefit is that heavy armor is becoming more and more common as Bounty Hunter seems to be picking up in popularity. The 100% armor penetration bonus to Blade Rush is noticeable trying to take down a tough BH, most don't realize you're combat either until they're hit with something that suddenly dealt over 2k+ damage.

[Adrykk]

Combat Trance gives you 100% Crit on Blade Storm while it's active. So it gives a pretty substantial burst opportunity then grants 1 focus, so for the price of one Slash you do way more damage with a guaranteed crit.

 

Watchman has no equivalent burst for that.

 

Granted, I've never played Combat. I'm just going by the tooltips and what not. I started my Sentinel as Watchman and I'm staying Watchman because I've been happy with it's performance in both PvE and PvP.

 

Every tree for every class should be as balanced in PvE and PvP as Watchman.

 

I'd love for my Defense Guardian to be just as rewarding in PvP as it is in PvE, but that's just not the case. Adjustments need to be made, but it seems like the developers are too busy finding ways to ensure that melee is always gimped in PvP while Sorcerers/Sages are ungodly, with Sorcerers having the animation advantage.

 

I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that one of the combat devs exclusively plays a Sorcerer too, as he freely admitted in an interview.

 

 

Actually, Immaculate Force is the talent that allows Bladestorm to crit while combat trance is up. Not Combat Trance itself. Combat Trance, itself, doesn't do anything until it ends (+1 focus after 6 seconds)

 

And you must spend 2 talent points for any real reliability in it. So that's 3 talent points to guarantee a bladestorm crit within a 6 second window of time based upon a 20% chance it's up, and the cooldown of bladestorm is ready (12 second cooldown)

 

Think about it for a little bit.

[whitefmxer]

I know this vid isnt much but it shows all the strong points of combat.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgDxwGWcscY&context=C356d413ADOEgsToPDskLuQtVRWynCNCojaUkMAagL

[CivicTiger]

I rolled a sentinel to be a disciplined 2-weapon fighting blender. I have 1 job. Take 2 lightsabers and relentlessly assault my opposition. That's it. And that's what I wanted.

 

I don't want to rely on setting people on fire. I'm not here to have a fuggin BBQ. I want to take my sabers and stab someone IN THE FACE. repeatedly.

 

Like the OP, I'm not a fan of DOTs, but looking over the skill tree of watchman again and again, it does kinda make me seethe with rage at how far 'on the side of caution' that the Combat tree was put together with. I mean, there are 5 talents in the tree that are strung together to force you into a certain outfit. That is excessively restricting.

 

There are not many single talents that are very enticing on their own, the ones that are, Watchman has an equally or more-so enticing ability.

 

From what I've seen, we're also the only tree in the game that has a talent that doesn't do anything. Literally, nothing... until it ends. No bonus or buff while it's active... but after 6 seconds, when it ends, you get 1 free focus... wow. That talent would be combat trance. And it's based upon RNG on a buggy mechanic. Blade rush, not counting (that's later in the game), I'm spending a talent point for a 20% chance to get 1 focus after 6 seconds of waiting for it. Meanwhile, I get absolutely no benefit during that time....

 

If you'd like combat trance to be useful while it's... well, actually active.. You have to take another talent. And that allows your bladestorm (which they've rammed down our throats, nor does it synergize well with combat, and doesn't benefit from our form), to crit. WHY BLADESTORM? Why not Blade Rush, Zealous Strike, Precision Slash, Cauterize or any other SENTINEL ability. Some ability that actually remembers that we wield 2 weapons.

 

I'm sorry, but I took off the training wheels when I left Tythos, alright?

 

Everything that we have relies on very rare circumstances. When those circumstances come together without fail, you'll have a shining moment and hope for the best because while you wait for the cooldowns on your abilities. you're ridiculously vulnerable.

 

Yet I still play combat, because, even if it is weak, it's the style I want to play. And I can only hope that Bioware, in their infinite wisdom will bring us up to par.

 

I'd still rather be weak now and get buffed than to be OP and get nerfed. Nobody likes to be nerfed.

 

It's like gas prices (but introverted) . they go up and up, you complain, then become complacent, then when they go down even the smallest amount, you're happy about it, even if it's still far higher than what it originally was.

 

That is where you're wrong.

If you think Combat Trance is useless... you clearly are mistake. I will tell you why.

 

Not only does Combat Trance gives us 1 focus when it ends, like you said. BUT while its active we get 100% crit chance to Blade Storm. - There is your answer.

[CivicTiger]

Actually, Immaculate Force is the talent that allows Bladestorm to crit while combat trance is up. Not Combat Trance itself. Combat Trance, itself, doesn't do anything until it ends (+1 focus after 6 seconds)

 

And you must spend 2 talent points for any real reliability in it. So that's 3 talent points to guarantee a bladestorm crit within a 6 second window of time based upon a 20% chance it's up, and the cooldown of bladestorm is ready (12 second cooldown)

 

Think about it for a little bit.

 

If you've talented Blade Storm to crit @ 100% with Combat Trance its CD is 9 seconds not 12.

& you're wrong. Combat Trance gives 100% crit, not this 'immaculate force' - what that does is gives us an extra 10% damage on top.

Oh, we also get 30% surge on Blade Storm too through spec, ontop of (my 90% surge) is 120% surge, ontop of 100% armor penetration..

[IronFirewind]

Well this is what you get in ]url=http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bcZRRrbddbRrsZG.1]Combat[/url] (yes I know it's not the best Combat Spec but it's to show what it can have):

 

3Sec Channelled Root tied to your most hard hitting Physical Attack

Snare/Root Breaker on a 45sec CD

The ability to make your next 2 attacks ignore al armour on a 15 sec CD

+30% Crit rate and bonus damage with Blade Storm

2 Focus Blade Storms on a 9 sec CD

20% chance to get +10% damage, 1 Focus and +100% Crit chance to your Blade Storm

-30% AoE Damage taken

+15% Move Speed

Rebuke Generates Focus

Force Leap Generates 5 Focus

Edited February 7, 2012 by IronFirewind

[RamzaBehoulve]

The problem with Combat currently are the skills stuttering/lag, the bugs associated with some skills and the pathetic 6s on Precision Slash.

 

Once those are fixed and everything is working correctly and smoothly, Combat will probably become the top PvP spec for organized fights.

 

I still love Combat and it can perform well, but I can do better more easily in Watchman and Focus currently.

Edited February 7, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[brutalcabbage]

It's kinda of obvious, well at least to me, that the specs are "intended" as follows:

 

Watchman - Dot up time for longer duration Raid Boss fights or heavily armored players in PvP.

 

Combat - combination spec for sustained burst and AOEs. Weaker targets in PvP and trash mobs in raids.

 

Focus - PvP spec with CC/Interrupt/Anti-cc abilities on lower cool downs.

 

Just read the tree abilities/spec and it's kinda of clear, barring game mechanics that don't work as intended but that has nothing to do with the tree.

[SerikFox]

I really want to use Combat. Ataru procs, Blade rush and 100% crit chance on blade storm every 9 seconds. It all seems pretty swell, but for some reason I just can't switch. I'm currently... Watchman ofcourse. I didn't pick Sentinel to do damage over time, and personally I hate this spec, but it's so good at well... everything... that I can't make myself swap. Even Force Exhaustion/Sweep bombing doesn't seem that good compared to what Watchman can do right now.

 

Convince me to swap. Combat or Focus actually, not bothered. One of these played well has to do something better than Watchman... Right?

 

Stack surge and power and go shared tree if you don't like watchman (I like combat personally, but it requires a unique style to be really effective. I like watchman more however - I swear that class was made for me. Funny thing too: my main toon on my previous mmo was Watchman. Had that name for years). Combine the procs for force sweep with surge rating and high power and you can lay stuff out. Each force sweep does several thousand damage at that point. I didn't have my surge or power high when I tried it, and it was still by far my most powerful attack under that spec. Doubled master strike's damage easily. (say you do 1k damage normally with sweep [after armor] - that gets inproved to 2k from singularity, and is improved to 3600 due to other expertise. That's without stacking any surge rating at all. Get that initial attack to do 1500 damage and get your surge up from the base 50 to 70, then you hit 3k damage before the crit, which goes to 6k damage after.)

 

I personally think of the different specs this way:

Watchman:

Berserker - Nearly impossible to stop *once* they get going. Weak to spike damage.

Combat:

Skirmisher - Mobile fighter with as much utility as power. Requires a focus on spike damage. Weak to Tanks.

Focus:

Powerhouse - Very powerful fighter. Weak in long fights.

 

Hope that helps

[firesprite_ea]

Combat:

Skirmisher - Mobile fighter with as much utility as power. Requires a focus on spike damage. Weak to Tanks.

Hope that helps

I dare say you a wrong on this:

Combat weak to tanks? With PS tank = med armour = light armour = no armour at all. PS means we can (and are) very effective tank busters.

[SerikFox]

I dare say you a wrong on this:

Combat weak to tanks? With PS tank = med armour = light armour = no armour at all. PS means we can (and are) very effective tank busters.

 

I don't disagree on that point, I love that ability. But tanks have enough defensive abilities to outlast you in a one on one fight. However, I see the combat build as very effective in groups. I would also go so far as to say that combat can smack down lightning witches more effectively than just about anyone. I have so far seen watchman as the best build against tanks (can outlast tanks as tanks have lower dps; watchman can get the power rolling and then they're incredibly tough). Combat can kill watchman if you can take them out fast enough. Focus comes across as 50/50 against both builds. With work I feel that watchman can be the all around most powerful one vs one fighter, but they do lack in some instances. Particularly regarding spike damage or mobility. Combat isn't as powerful in any sort of drawn out fight, but it's very powerful against other high dps classes.

 

Now, against most tanks, yeah, it's good. Against people who really know their classes, no. Spike damage can't beat really good tanks (I know dps, I am a really good medic; I am an okay tank. Might work on me lol). Also, I would have to put combat as one of my favorite medic killers (watchman isn't as good at it).

[HollowVamp]

fixing combats bugs in itself would be a big buff for the spec. Honestly, seeing how easy operations are, even hardmodes, I'm doing combat, rather love my play style than hate my better damage. If played right you'll still do competitive damage, just not highest of everyone damage. I full cleared EV in the first week or 2 as a focus spec pvp build and we never came close to seeing an enrage timer or wipe,(minues speeder bike boss) so I would suggest play what you want too, your here to have fun, not be a slave. Edited February 10, 2012 by HollowVamp