Learning the same schematic from REing

[DanJones]

Why is this possible?

 

I have 3 different artifact grade implants, and I'm trying to get the extra power artifact schem. After my third one, I got a 4th, but an error popped up saying that I had already known the schematic, therefore nothing happened.

 

This shouldn't be the case, otherwise I could go through another 100 implants just to not have anything new, even though the chance to get what I wanted had come 3 extra times for a total of 6(3 usable).

[Cyrosage]

It is extremely frustrating. I have 3/4 purple recipes for the BH tank helmet:

 

-General (+Defense, +Presence)

-Anti-Armor (+Defense, +Surge)

-Exactitude (+Defense, +Accuracy)

 

and need

 

-Veracity (+Defense, +Shield)... upgrading a tank item with tank stats! go figure!

 

I have made hundreds of the helmets at great cost and have had several "you already know this schematic" messages. It would be better to not even be told. You can't attempt to learn something you know.. that doesn't even make sense. I'm glad it's not like a lot of free2play games where you try to improve your item and destroy it 99% of the time, but learning the same thing repeatedly sucks.

 

TLDR: RNG on top of RNG, better luck in Vegas

[DanJones]

Well I got accuracy first, but idk, I would rather have power or something..

[Larkie]

Perhaps it's time to not obsess over one item?

[Angeliana]

I agree with the OP this is really frustrating. I have made countless posts about the issue and apparently it is "working as intended".

 

I have REed a blue into the purple I want fine, now I am trying to RE that purple into the alacrity or surge one, since as a healer presence, shield and accuracy are useless to me. I have gotten all the useless recipe procs, I am down mats enough to make and RE 140 purples. Go check the logs BW I dare you. I craft at least 5-10 a day and still nothing. Now if I get a proc it always says already have that schematic.

 

All I ask is that you remove proced recipes from the possible proc pool for future REs. Otherwise, besides being sadistic and OCD like me, why would any crafter ever try to go for an item this way when they could pug an operation or HM FP and get better in less than an hour.

 

Weeks upon weeks of no success, wasted mats and time and credits vs. one hour run which drops better.

 

Does that seem fair BW?

 

Please!

Edited February 7, 2012 by Angeliana

[Larkie]

/shrug

 

Doesn't bother me at all, and I see it often enough.

[PoPPaDoM]

Perhaps it's time to not obsess over one item?

 

The current suffix/prefix system for RE'ing is stupid. It should be easier to get the remaining recipes once you have some, not increasingly more difficult.

 

Once you have learned a recipe it should be removed from the list of things you can learn on a crit RE.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Paralassa
rude

[Zocat]

I have made hundreds of the helmets at great cost and have had several "you already know this schematic" messages. It would be better to not even be told.

 

I think that's an important point:

Do people just prefer not to know - or do people want a higher chance?

 

I personally agree with you, seeing that message is annoying, since I always think "OMG SOOO CLOSE". Even though I know it doesnt matter if I "rolled" a 89 or a 5 if only numbers >= 90 give me a result (assuming an equal distribution).

[Larkie]

We all get the message, most people don't cry about it. RE doesn't need to be easier - if anything it's too easy as is. Edited February 8, 2012 by Paralassa
rude reply

[Natarii]

Also, +Power comes on the OVERKILL version, which is tier 1 - if you are reverse engineering REDOUBT or CRITICAL items, you will NOT gain power as an additional stat. There is a tier 2 version that gives additional power, but you have to RE an OVERKILL item to get it, so basically doubling the +power instead of giving power and something else.

[Cyrosage]

We all get the message, most people don't cry about it. RE doesn't need to be easier - if anything it's too easy as is.

 

 

At level 50, the game consists of hard modes, operations (raids), pvp, and crafting.

 

-hard modes: Possible with pugs but you or your companions may not be geared. Get there by crafting or running the hard mode over and over until you get a drop.

 

-operations: Not likely unless you are guilded. If you aren't geared for hard modes, raiding may not be the best option. So crafted gear is the fallback.

 

-pvp: hutball hutball hutball. I don't care too much for pvp (hence pve server) so it feels grindy. Hmm pvp stats or good tank gear?

 

-crafting: Self-sufficient gearing. You don't need a party or to rely on others. RNG is frustrating because we keep RE'ing and "learning" things we know. There isn't a structured progression here, just some people getting lucky (and possibly cornering the market, but that's another story) while others try and try and try. There is a severe lack of crafted heavy BH tank gear (primary stat AIM, not strength) on my server. An increased % by repetition or removing the silly message would be very welcome changes.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Paralassa
rude + rude quote

[Bovive]

I wish it would remove previously learned schematics from the table. It wasn't a huge issue before, but I'm stuck on one item (redoubt hyperaccelerated shield generator). I have only learned one purple for this schematic (the presence version) and I have learned it 5 times now.

[DanJones]

So I've been REing my overkill one, and I've gotten alacrity, accuracy, and defense rating.

 

I want something a little more useful than defense rating, alacrity is alright, but I'd still rather get something new, than have the same schematic over and over..

 

It kind of just doesn't make sense, unless the stat varied at all, which it doesn't.

 

Example: Getting 35 accuracy with a chance for it to cap out at 40(which it currently does anyway, regardless..)

 

I'd like a variable system if it stays, in general, the way it already is, or to change and not proc the same thing over and over for no use whatsoever..

[Amiracle]

I agree with the OP this is really frustrating. I have made countless posts about the issue and apparently it is "working as intended".

 

I have REed a blue into the purple I want fine, now I am trying to RE that purple into the alacrity or surge one, since as a healer presence, shield and accuracy are useless to me. I have gotten all the useless recipe procs, I am down mats enough to make and RE 140 purples. Go check the logs BW I dare you. I craft at least 5-10 a day and still nothing. Now if I get a proc it always says already have that schematic.

 

All I ask is that you remove proced recipes from the possible proc pool for future REs. Otherwise, besides being sadistic and OCD like me, why would any crafter ever try to go for an item this way when they could pug an operation or HM FP and get better in less than an hour.

 

Weeks upon weeks of no success, wasted mats and time and credits vs. one hour run which drops better.

 

Does that seem fair BW?

 

Please!

 

 

You re-engineered a blue into a purple.

 

And now you are trying to RE that purple into another purple.

 

Not sure if this is a typo but re-engineering a purple will just get a augment slot. Not another purple. Thats how I understand it works.

[GnatB]

Also, +Power comes on the OVERKILL version, which is tier 1 - if you are reverse engineering REDOUBT or CRITICAL items, you will NOT gain power as an additional stat. There is a tier 2 version that gives additional power, but you have to RE an OVERKILL item to get it, so basically doubling the +power instead of giving power and something else.

 

Actually, there isn't a tier 2 that gives more power, (though I've noticed sometimes stats aren't entirely consistent from tier to tier, but I suspect that more a goof in database entry)

 

tier 2's give

shield

presence

surge

alacrity

accuracy

 

 

That being said, I think my ideal "make RE easier" change would be to make reverse engineering work horizontally in addition to vertically.

Let's say the current RE chance is 5%.

i.e. you RE a basic item. You have a 5% chance of learning any T1, including one you already know.

if you RE a T1 that you didn't make, you have a 1% chance of learning one of it's T2s, including one you already know.

if you RE a T1 that you did make, then if you don't know all the T1's yet you have a 50% chance of learning one of it's T1's that you don't know, and a 2.5% chance of learning any of it's T2's. Including ones you don't know.

if you RE a T2 that you made, then you have a 50% chance of learning one of it's sister schematics that you don't know.

 

That being said, before they actually make the decision to make RE'ing easier, they have to decide on whether or not tradeskills will give combat perks, (like crafted BoP BIS or reuseable biochem stuff). If they intend to keep it so tradeskills give combat perks, then (IMO) they need to make REing harder, if anything.

[GnatB]

You re-engineered a blue into a purple.

 

And now you are trying to RE that purple into another purple.

 

Not sure if this is a typo but re-engineering a purple will just get a augment slot. Not another purple. Thats how I understand it works.

 

you can RE a vendor bought (and possibly dropped?) blue schematic into a T1 purple

 

You can then RE that schematic into a T2 purple.

 

However most people don't try to do that as the cost is extreme. Theoretically, you could RE one of the purple recipies into a T1 purple, and then that into a T2 purple, but that would be even MORE expensive.

[fujeo-finel]

Come on, you know that once you get the schematics you want you wont have anything left to do.

[Solmyr]

Why is this possible?

 

I have 3 different artifact grade implants, and I'm trying to get the extra power artifact schem. After my third one, I got a 4th, but an error popped up saying that I had already known the schematic, therefore nothing happened.

 

This shouldn't be the case, otherwise I could go through another 100 implants just to not have anything new, even though the chance to get what I wanted had come 3 extra times for a total of 6(3 usable).

 

Just to go back to the OP's original post:

 

The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation.

 

Patrick Malott

Systems Designer

[SootyTX]

Why is this possible?

 

I have 3 different artifact grade implants, and I'm trying to get the extra power artifact schem. After my third one, I got a 4th, but an error popped up saying that I had already known the schematic, therefore nothing happened.

 

This shouldn't be the case, otherwise I could go through another 100 implants just to not have anything new, even though the chance to get what I wanted had come 3 extra times for a total of 6(3 usable).

 

So, basically, you are complaining about exact issue posted by the system designer 15 mins before you said anything to try to appear insightful in some way.....

 

The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation.

 

Patrick Malott

Systems Designer

[Balenndin]

We all get the message, most people don't cry about it. RE doesn't need to be easier - if anything it's too easy as is.

 

I agree with you, getting purples should be alot harder than it is now