Eerazer Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Why? because it's good at some things and bad at others. What it's good for; creating worlds and enabling devopers to place items in the gameworld and craft it in real time wheile other developers are placing trees, constructing buildings, placing items etc all while logged in and standing next to eachother inside the gameworld, in a live environment. This cuts down on a lot of time and is generally touted for extreme ease of use and flexibility. ...Why it's bad? because the game engine itself runs poorly on generally all systems. Generally speaking the minimal specs for this game are a lie. (in my opinion, based off experience.) Let me just say that I have alpha and beta tested a game that is in development since last year called "prime battle for dominus" now it's just called "dominus". They used the HERO engine exclusively as well, and in places that game was extremly poorly optimized, for instance you could be standing in a cave with a very powerful system such as mine, and get over 400fps 1 second, and it dop down to 30 fps just by turning 10 degrees to the right or left, while staring at a blank cave wall with no other item that required rendering introduced.. so it makes you wonder. What is wrong with this game engine? Well Bioware actually have done a great job getting this frankly ..bad, engine to the state that it's in. It's actually in a playable state, however like I mentioned before i am on a extremely over the recommended specs for the game. Still, to advertise this game currently as minimum specs being correct (that basically boiling down to 5-10 fps.. (unbearable... right), and then to have someone with a minimum spec system (barely, quite possibly) able to launch the game an and play, the game experience is horrendous. Sure, I can understand why, but it did take these people by surprise. I suppsoe they must be new to pc gaming I thought, when they are trying to play the game on a 1ghz Atom notebook. Bioware did modify the HERO engine to run as best as they could given the circumstances and I am sure they are well aware that the engine is going to perform badly on lower end ssytems but it as set in stone I suppose and that excuse, whether it was from Bioware or from the fans about "the game's graphics look date because they want the game to appeal to a wider audience by being able to run on older systems" seems moot at this point since i hve pointed out the inherit flaw in the hero engine. Not saying it's a failure, and since hardware improves over time, in a couple years everyone will be running hex cores and overclocked custom 580's, 590's, 600's.. I suppose then - it won't be a problem. As for now?.. well I think I went over that already. ^^ Edited February 5, 2012 by Eerazer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerazer Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCommand Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 "It's the engine not my computer etc etc" We could argue day and night about this, but the fact of the matter is that a game can not be optimized for every system, and all we know is that your supposed high end system is struggling sometimes with this game, while my supposed average end system is doing fine except when 50 reps are fighting 50 imps on screen at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) nothing? No one cares. Armchair developers like yourself have been posting about the hero engine from day 1. You didn't develop this game. You don't have the expertise to make assumptions like this. Edited February 5, 2012 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJJShmidt Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I agree that this games rendering systems are horrible. And its load times are another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madwooki Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The OP is 100% correct maybe do some research before replying negatively about the hero engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHiddey Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 This is a blog post, it's not written to invite or encourage discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Hero engine isn't bad. It was acquired before it was ready for a AAA title, and Bioware did substantial work on it over the several years the game was in development. For all we know, it may not resemble the current Hero engine very much at all. Most developers build off the SDK of an engine (depending on the licensing terms) and add and take away things. I can go out and buy a Lego set and build a shoddy model with it, but that doesn't mean that Legos are garbage. Edited February 5, 2012 by Traumahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerazer Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 This is a blog post, it's not written to invite or encourage discussion. Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchmeifucan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) The OP is 100% correct maybe do some research before replying negatively about the hero engine. So this engine there using (bioware) is still the stock standard engine is it. I would of thought they would of upgraded it to make it easier to make the game but that is just a assumption. Also is it the engine fault that it does not work on all systems or just the developers?? I dont know, I have no idea on this sort of stuff. (but this would be a hard task on any engine would it not) Edited February 5, 2012 by Catchmeifucan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerazer Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 "It's the engine not my computer etc etc" We could argue day and night about this, but the fact of the matter is that a game can not be optimized for every system, and all we know is that your supposed high end system is struggling sometimes with this game, while my supposed average end system is doing fine except when 50 reps are fighting 50 imps on screen at the same time It's not, only on the fleet when it's very busy, but that is to be be expected. I was referring to the people with low end machines. And that basically minimum spec, as it is currently, is not/barely enough to get a decent gaming experience whatsoever. All it boils down to is this; "do you meet minimum spec? great! - it will actually launch." As for any kind of decent experience from that, really, not going to happen. The minimum specs aren't correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navakai Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If it's a blog post, and not open for discussion why is your second reply in the thread "nothing? " When no one commented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywinter Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) "It's the engine not my computer etc etc" We could argue day and night about this, but the fact of the matter is that a game can not be optimized for every system, and all we know is that your supposed high end system is struggling sometimes with this game, while my supposed average end system is doing fine except when 50 reps are fighting 50 imps on screen at the same time Mate, it seems you are totally out of your element here. Please do not post if you do not have the knowledge about the subject OP is 100% correct, hero engine was a very bad choice for a game with a huge budget as SWTOR. Hero engine will be single handedly responsible, if this game fails. Edited February 5, 2012 by Greywinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerazer Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 So this engine there using (bioware) is still the stock standard engine is it. I would of thought they would of upgraded it to make it easier to make the game but that is just a assumption. You are correct it's been heavily modified, which is why I wrote about it in my op. however the game engine itself is fairly crippled by poor performance, it's the nature of the engine. It's not just a flat 1 example accusation, there are other AAA mmo's who have or are using it.. and that other one i mentioned ran even worse than this, but my point is, is its running like this now, after all of 5 years of improvements and modifications by bioware, the engine itself isn't a powerhouse of performance. It's indeed inheritly very slow. And such, having such low minimum specs, is frankly a falsehood, unless people don't care about quality of game experience when they buy the game and expect it to actually be playable when they install it on a minimum spec system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Please read the following sources: http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/ http://www.heroengine.com/2012/01/heroengine-technology-critical-to-swtors-successful-launch/ This is a quote from one of the Hero Developers: "The code bases have diverged enough over the years that it would be easier to write new code from scratch than to try to find areas of compatibility. I’m sure BioWare has enough engineers to do whatever is necessary." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinchy_ Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Maybe it was influenced by EA. All C & C games made by them use the WeakSpy engine for online play, maybe they are used to dumping games into poor already existing systems instead of making their own. Edited February 5, 2012 by Pinchy_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchmeifucan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 It's not, only on the fleet when it's very busy, but that is to be be expected. I was referring to the people with low end machines. And that basically minimum spec, as it is currently, is not/barely enough to get a decent gaming experience whatsoever. All it boils down to is this; "do you meet minimum spec? great! - it will actually launch." As for any kind of decent experience from that, really, not going to happen. The minimum specs aren't correct. Ok if I am getting the jist right you are saying (that the minimum spec should be able to run this game on low settings) if that is correct I agree with you. I dont think the minimum spec should just be for launching the game you should be able to play as well. On a side note I dont have any issues with the game and sometimes wonder if half the problems are caused by people setting there machine wrong (bad overclock, bad/outdated drivers, Over filled harddrives,ectect,) But i would not have a clue to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCommand Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I was referring to the people with low end machines. And that basically minimum spec, as it is currently, is not/barely enough to get a decent gaming experience whatsoever. All it boils down to is this; "do you meet minimum spec? great! - it will actually launch." As for any kind of decent experience from that, really, not going to happen. The minimum specs aren't correct. Minimum Spec refers to spec needed to actually run the game at all, recommended spec is the one you want to have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywinter Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You are correct it's been heavily modified, which is why I wrote about it in my op. however the game engine itself is fairly crippled by poor performance, it's the nature of the engine. It's not just a flat 1 example accusation, there are other AAA mmo's who have or are using it.. and that other one i mentioned ran even worse than this, but my point is, is its running like this now, after all of 5 years of improvements and modifications by bioware, the engine itself isn't a powerhouse of performance. It's indeed inheritly very slow. And such, having such low minimum specs, is frankly a falsehood, unless people don't care about quality of game experience when they buy the game and expect it to actually be playable when they install it on a minimum spec system. If you ask me, you make this engine sound pretty decent. I have much worse words to describe it myself. Using this engine to develop SWTOR is beyond disappointing and hopeless, there is no word for it in english language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchmeifucan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You are correct it's been heavily modified, which is why I wrote about it in my op. however the game engine itself is fairly crippled by poor performance, it's the nature of the engine. It's not just a flat 1 example accusation, there are other AAA mmo's who have or are using it.. and that other one i mentioned ran even worse than this, but my point is, is its running like this now, after all of 5 years of improvements and modifications by bioware, the engine itself isn't a powerhouse of performance. It's indeed inheritly very slow. And such, having such low minimum specs, is frankly a falsehood, unless people don't care about quality of game experience when they buy the game and expect it to actually be playable when they install it on a minimum spec system. Cool. I wonder why they used it then. You think there must be a better reason than developing in real time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCommand Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Mate, it seems you are totally out of your element here. Please do not post if you do not have the knowledge about the subject OP is 100% correct, hero engine was a very bad choice for a game with a huge budget as SWTOR. Hero engine will be single handedly responsible, if this game fails. How high and mighty we are being here today I might not know everything about the Hero engine, but I do know enough about game engine development to know that every engine is based on each other, and that Bioware have used almost half a decade to craft their very own MMO engine, this is no longer the Hero engine, it's the SWTOR engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerazer Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you ask me, you make this engine sound pretty decent. I have much worse words to describe it myself. Using this engine to develop SWTOR is beyond disappointing and hopeless, there is no word for it in english language. Well, personally I don't have many problems with it running well, but It is the people who are running minimum specs that concern me, they aren't getting the performance they they should be getting. That was the general reason for my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you ask me, you make this engine sound pretty decent. I have much worse words to describe it myself. Using this engine to develop SWTOR is beyond disappointing and hopeless, there is no word for it in english language. Please tell me the various game engines you have worked on (even in an art or asset capacity) and explain how you know that using Hero was hopeless? What do you think would have been a better engine to use and why? I'm being serious when I ask this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contacts Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 between ability delay, random fps drops and the slideshow that is ilum i certainly agree. just bought a mid range laptop a few months ago thinking it could handle an mmo but i was wrong. this games absolutely crawls whenever there is 10 plus players around, which is almost all of the time now that im level 50. and this is with all the graphics turned down/off and on low resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchmeifucan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Minimum Spec refers to spec needed to actually run the game at all, recommended spec is the one you want to have This makes sense Edited February 5, 2012 by Catchmeifucan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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