Garroda Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Here is a quote from the Excellent Marauder Guide Sticky: *** "Massacre: No cool-down, costs 3 rage, automatically deals an Ataru strike and increases Ataru strike chance by 30% (for a total of 50%) for 6 seconds. This does roughly the same amount of damage with the Ataru proc as Vicious Slash, and is therefore its replacement (there's a reason Ataru Berserk reduces the rage/GCD for Vicious Slash AND Massacre)." *** I am not sure I agree with this 100%. While it is true that Massacre with the guaranteed Ataru proc is basically the same damage as Vicious Slash, it is not the same damage as Visious Slash+Ataru Proc. For example, if Berzerk was available and you had a full bar of rage: Massacre->Vicious Slash->Vicious Slash->Vicious Slash->Scream is (potentially) better than Massacre->Massacre->Massacre->Massacre->Scream. Because odds are at least one if not all three Vicious Slash strikes *could* proc Ataru. Given that all of our other abilities are on cooldown, isn't the Vicious Slash rotatation better? Edited February 3, 2012 by Garroda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartless-hate Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It is indeed better, specially if you factor in the 15% crit chance to VS that you can spec for without too much trouble. this is even more the case if our off hand attacks can proc ataru, at which point (assuming 0 accuracy, and having the massecare buff up) VS has an 50% chance on MH + (66% * 50%= 33%)= 83% chace to proc an ataru. even if off hands do not proc ataru, vs slash is still a sizable dps gain. however, using mass instead of VS simplifies the rotation, and gaurentees the proc. thats why most people use it. I, on the other hand, so dont and use VS after using the mass. once for the buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munx Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Massacre gets 30% crit damage from spec, It will win out over vicious slash any day. And like you said massacre is considerably faster the vicious slash. Edited February 3, 2012 by Munx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The appropriate comparison is Massacre with TWO ataru procs(one from the skill itself, and one from your 50% proc chance) compared to VS with 1 proc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garroda Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 The appropriate comparison is Massacre with TWO ataru procs(one from the skill itself, and one from your 50% proc chance) compared to VS with 1 proc. I don't think that Massacre is recursive like that. Too bad we don't have a combat log, but I am pretty sure that Massacre just moves the Ataru proc rate to 100% for the Massacre strike, then the proc rate is moved to 50% for the duration of the effect. It makes no sense that the buff could affect the initial skill that triggers it. it would be great to verify if it actually works as you stated, because that would mean that Massacre is superior in all circumstances...potentially with the exception of the Brutality specced ability if you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It works like I posted. Test it out, I've used it plenty enough to know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munx Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I belive what he means is that he can get the proc on his mainhand aswell as his offhand, which does infact mean 2 procs vs 1, and I've seen the same thing, you can proc twice of the same attack with massacre. And even if you couldnt, massacre would be considerably better because of Crit damage + speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Here is a quote from the Excellent Marauder Guide Sticky: *** "Massacre: No cool-down, costs 3 rage, automatically deals an Ataru strike and increases Ataru strike chance by 30% (for a total of 50%) for 6 seconds. This does roughly the same amount of damage with the Ataru proc as Vicious Slash, and is therefore its replacement (there's a reason Ataru Berserk reduces the rage/GCD for Vicious Slash AND Massacre)." *** I am not sure I agree with this 100%. While it is true that Massacre with the guaranteed Ataru proc is basically the same damage as Vicious Slash, it is not the same damage as Visious Slash+Ataru Proc. For example, if Berzerk was available and you had a full bar of rage: Massacre->Vicious Slash->Vicious Slash->Vicious Slash->Scream is (potentially) better than Massacre->Massacre->Massacre->Massacre->Scream. Because odds are at least one if not all three Vicious Slash strikes *could* proc Ataru. Given that all of our other abilities are on cooldown, isn't the Vicious Slash rotatation better? Massacre replaces Viscious Slash. Massacre has a chance to proc 2 Ataru Hits. One that is on the GCD, and one that isnt(the gauranteed one), Go try it out and you will see. Each weapon does not have its own chance, it revolves around melee hits, so in cases where certain abilties hit twice, each hit has a chance to proc one(Ravage, Battering Assault) Your right, odds are one will proc, but Massacre is garaunteed to proc at least once, making the reduced damage it does now greater as the ataru procs also have a chance to crit but the base damage it offers still does more than a V. Slash. 1 Massacre can essentially hit for close to 2k on Average with the right amount of gear. With the same gear, a Viscous slash would only hit for 1.4k. Massacre is, and will always be, better than Vicious Slash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I don't think that Massacre is recursive like that. Too bad we don't have a combat log, but I am pretty sure that Massacre just moves the Ataru proc rate to 100% for the Massacre strike, then the proc rate is moved to 50% for the duration of the effect. It makes no sense that the buff could affect the initial skill that triggers it. it would be great to verify if it actually works as you stated, because that would mean that Massacre is superior in all circumstances...potentially with the exception of the Brutality specced ability if you have it. Combat logs arent needed. If you press Massacre once, and you see 2 numbers in yellow pop up for the same identical damage, that was Ataru that just proc'd twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Combat logs arent needed. If you press Massacre once, and you see 2 numbers in yellow pop up for the same identical damage, that was Ataru that just proc'd twice. This. This particular discussion has already taken place many moons ago, and re-visited several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garroda Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Great...now I don't need to buy VS #7! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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