Please Help Inform an MMO Newbie

[ML_DoubleTap]

I have very little MMO(and zero PVP) experience prior to SWTOR. Can someone please explain the logic behind improving your stats and gear as you gain ranks(post-50)? I'm not to level 50 yet, so I've not experienced this first hand, but as I understand the more you play and the higher Valor rank you get, the better gear you unlock. Which, makes you character increasingly stronger than those that are new to 50. This seems incredibly counterintuitive to me. Why as you get better should you gain an even larger advantage over new players? Shouldn't you be able to beat them simply because you've had more time to hone your skills?

 

Most of my competive(PvP) gaming experience comes from Halo, and as you get better there, you increased in rank and in turn caused you to play others that were closer to your skill level. You didn't gain an inherent advantage aside from increased skill over new players. In an MMO it seems that not only do you become more skilled through experience, you also become more powerful furthering the gap. How does it make sense that someone that is already better than newcomers get a stat increase as well?

 

Not trying to be confrontational, I just honestly want to understand the concept better.

[Calei]

My best guess would be because those that have gotten beaten up to get the gear, would like to return the favor when they get the gear.

 

Its like saying, because I suffer, you should suffer too. I'm sure you've heard the expression "misery loves company"?

Edited February 2, 2012 by Calei

[Spacemanbobr]

It's based upon incentives... adds a bit more motivation to playing through all those ranks so you can get that gear and be unstoppable.

[Jestunhi]

I have very little MMO(and zero PVP) experience prior to SWTOR. Can someone please explain the logic behind improving your stats and gear as you gain ranks(post-50)? I'm not to level 50 yet, so I've not experienced this first hand, but as I understand the more you play and the higher Valor rank you get, the better gear you unlock. Which, makes you character increasingly stronger than those that are new to 50. This seems incredibly counterintuitive to me. Why as you get better should you gain an even larger advantage over new players? Shouldn't you be able to beat them simply because you've had more time to hone your skills?

 

Most of my competive(PvP) gaming experience comes from Halo, and as you get better there, you increased in rank and in turn caused you to play others that were closer to your skill level. You didn't gain an inherent advantage aside from increased skill over new players. In an MMO it seems that not only do you become more skilled through experience, you also become more powerful furthering the gap. How does it make sense that someone that is already better than newcomers get a stat increase as well?

 

Not trying to be confrontational, I just honestly want to understand the concept better.

 

It works exactly the same as end-game raiding for pve gear.

 

In that you pve for pve gear.

 

If you pvp then you pvp for pvp gear.

 

Simples.

[iLLaDeLpHLife]

Have you ever played an rpg? Any rpg.. not just an mmo. In any rpg your gear/skills get better as you level.. why would this be diff in an mmorpg?

 

Halo is a fps and there matchmaking system is designed to pair you with people closest to your skill.

 

Fps and rpgs are two totally different game types. I really fail to see what's so difficult to understand.. and i've played (and still do) both fps and rpgs for 10-15u years now

[ML_DoubleTap]

It's based upon incentives... adds a bit more motivation to playing through all those ranks so you can get that gear and be unstoppable.

 

Shouldn't your skill level be what determines who is 'unstoppable'?

 

Maybe the gap isn't as wide as it's made out to be, but from what I read it's basically impossible to kill someone w/ the slightest clue of what they're doing if they have BM gear and you are a new 50. I can could see a slight advantage as the point of of an MMORPG is progression, but in a matchmaking environment I guess I'd expect more of a fair fight. Maybe it's just my FPS and RTS background that has me biased towards a more fair fight.

[Jestunhi]

Shouldn't your skill level be what determines who is 'unstoppable'?

 

Maybe the gap isn't as wide as it's made out to be, but from what I read it's basically impossible to kill someone w/ the slightest clue of what they're doing if they have BM gear and you are a new 50. I can could see a slight advantage as the point of of an MMORPG is progression, but in a matchmaking environment I guess I'd expect more of a fair fight. Maybe it's just my FPS and RTS background that has me biased towards a more fair fight.

 

Mmorpg's and rpg's in general are based around character progression.

 

Do not expect twitch / pure skill based pvp. It can happen in MMO's but it's not even remotely the norm and it should not be assumed that that's the system which will be used when deciding if you want to buy.

 

 

There are many MMOs which cater to pure twitch or pure skill. This is a more generic MMORPG.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Have you ever played an rpg? Any rpg.. not just an mmo. In any rpg your gear/skills get better as you level.. why would this be diff in an mmorpg?

 

Halo is a fps and there matchmaking system is designed to pair you with people closest to your skill.

 

Fps and rpgs are two totally different game types. I really fail to see what's so difficult to understand.. and i've played (and still do) both fps and rpgs for 10-15u years now

 

But warzones are a form of matchmaking no? I could see open world being different, but with a matchmade environment I guess I'd expect some semblence of a fair fight.

[Kolbenito]

I have very little MMO(and zero PVP) experience prior to SWTOR. Can someone please explain the logic behind improving your stats and gear as you gain ranks(post-50)? I'm not to level 50 yet, so I've not experienced this first hand, but as I understand the more you play and the higher Valor rank you get, the better gear you unlock. Which, makes you character increasingly stronger than those that are new to 50. This seems incredibly counterintuitive to me. Why as you get better should you gain an even larger advantage over new players? Shouldn't you be able to beat them simply because you've had more time to hone your skills?

 

Most of my competive(PvP) gaming experience comes from Halo, and as you get better there, you increased in rank and in turn caused you to play others that were closer to your skill level. You didn't gain an inherent advantage aside from increased skill over new players. In an MMO it seems that not only do you become more skilled through experience, you also become more powerful furthering the gap. How does it make sense that someone that is already better than newcomers get a stat increase as well?

 

Not trying to be confrontational, I just honestly want to understand the concept better.

 

Very short version:

 

Raiders

Rewards

 

Longer version:

MMOs subscriptions are based heavily on keeping you around by giving you things to do and ways to get and upgrade your stuff. There is no "beat the game" in this genre, it's beat what is available and wait for the next stuff. A classic carrot and stick incentive if you prefer. Keep players playing indefinitely through new things to do, see and acquire.

 

Raid content typically increases in difficulty as it is implemented, the reward for beating harder content is better gear. Over time this creates a large gear difference between people who raid and those who don't. The answer to that has been to implement a similar level of progression in gear obtainable solely through PVP. The idea is to keep PVP gear better for PVP, so that Raiders do not have a massive gear advantage.

 

The "gear imbalance" in the PVP gear is mostly caused by the fact that not everyone has got the gear yet. There is nothing elite, or special or even exclusive about the gear; it is meant for everyone to obtain. The game is just very new and many people are not at that point yet. Some people are also trying to PVP as a new level 50 in leveling/quest gear instead of getting as many upgrades as possible first, which just doesn't work in MMOs.

[Lord_Karsk]

I have very little MMO(and zero PVP) experience prior to SWTOR. Can someone please explain the logic behind improving your stats and gear as you gain ranks(post-50)? I'm not to level 50 yet, so I've not experienced this first hand, but as I understand the more you play and the higher Valor rank you get, the better gear you unlock. Which, makes you character increasingly stronger than those that are new to 50. This seems incredibly counterintuitive to me. Why as you get better should you gain an even larger advantage over new players? Shouldn't you be able to beat them simply because you've had more time to hone your skills?

 

Most of my competive(PvP) gaming experience comes from Halo, and as you get better there, you increased in rank and in turn caused you to play others that were closer to your skill level. You didn't gain an inherent advantage aside from increased skill over new players. In an MMO it seems that not only do you become more skilled through experience, you also become more powerful furthering the gap. How does it make sense that someone that is already better than newcomers get a stat increase as well?

 

Not trying to be confrontational, I just honestly want to understand the concept better.

 

This guy can help you alot with most of your questions.

See the videos and read the blogs etc etc great help to new players...

 

http://taugrim.com/

http://no.twitch.tv/taugrim

[belialle]

The thing about MMOs is that they want to keep people subscribed for as long as possible, right? To achieve this, what they normally do is just create lots of little micro "goals" for people to achieve. In essence, they just keep dangling a carrot on a stick in front of our noses -- just out of reach.

 

These little micro goals are pretty easy to attain, and they give people a sense of accomplishment. Upon achieving these little goals, gamers get a little rush of endorphins. MMOs encourage weird obsessive behaviors, which is probably why these games are so addictive for many people. In my opinion, it's a cheap, exploitative way to keep people coming back for more, but it is obviously extremely effective. Essentially, we are rats in a virtual Skinner box.

 

Once people have attained a high gear level, they are very vested in maintaining that gear advantage. Many (most?) of them are not interested in actual competition. They want to feel powerful, and being able to totally annihilate lesser-geared players gives them a (false) sense of superiority. You could argue that they just want to hide behind their gear advantage, and I would say that this is probably a fair assessment for at least some of them. Also, as someone else mentioned, they feel that they had to suffer through the gearing-up process -- and therefore so should you.

Edited February 2, 2012 by belialle

[ML_DoubleTap]

It works exactly the same as end-game raiding for pve gear.

 

In that you pve for pve gear.

 

If you pvp then you pvp for pvp gear.

 

Simples.

 

Isn't there a progression of pve though? Normal -> Hard -> Nightmare

 

I just can't get over that in a matchmaking sysem like warzones are there isn't necessarily a fair fight despite hitting the max level. I totally get that a level 45 has a distinct advantage over a 15, but why a large gap between 2 50's? Just something I'll have to get used to once I hit that level I suppose. I really enjoy this game and plan on being here a long time, I was just confused on how this part of it made sense.

[ML_DoubleTap]

The thing about MMOs is that they want to keep people subscribed for as long as possible, right? To achieve this, what they normally do is just create lots of little micro "goals" for people to achieve. In essence, they just keep dangling a carrot on a stick in front of our noses -- just out of reach.

 

These little micro goals are pretty easy to attain, and they give people a sense of accomplishment. Upon achieving these little goals, gamers get a little rush of endorphins. MMOs encourage weird obsessive behaviors, which is probably why these games are so addictive for many people. In my opinion, it's a cheap, exploitative way to keep people coming back for more, but it is obviously extremely effective. Essentially, we are rats in a virtual Skinner box.

 

Once people have attained a high gear level, they are very vested in maintaining that gear advantage. Many (most?) of them are not interested in actual competition. They want to feel powerful, and being able to totally annihilate lesser-geared players gives them a (false) sense of superiority. You could argue that they just want to hide behind their gear advantage, and I would say that this is probably a fair assessment for at least some of them. Also, as someone else mentioned, they feel that they had to suffer through the gearing-up process -- and therefore so should you.

 

That makes a lot of sense.

 

For me, I'd understand that in open world PvP, but it still kinda drives me crazy that there's such a gap in matchmaking. It seem there should be some sort of balancing factor for matchmade games. Or maybe a ranked vs unranked where unranked games allow full gear discrepencies, but ranked games are capped so that the advantage is very slight.

[AlonzoOdantis]

OP:

 

you are correct in your instincts as a gamer.

 

The standard mmo copy-paste formula of "get gear to increae your stats so that you roll opponents rather than outskill them" is popular because it appeals to the same market mmos make the most money from.

 

Those with way too much free time basically. Good or bad, if you have 12 hours a day to sink into an MMO vs. someone with 2 hours a day the sheer extra playtime should give you the skills and experience you need to win. But in reality most of the time the big timesink players never progress their skills, then they cry their eyes out when the game they dedicate half of their waking life to leaves them behind as new players beat them. So they want the gear to have an unfair edge so they can feel powerful even though they aren't that good.

 

The reason you see this formula so often is because WoW was absurdly popular by appealing to the lowest common denominator. It's the same reason Farmville is popular. But the $$ comes from that market so mmo devs like to keep them happy.

 

 

 

the tl;dr

 

 

"Because the types of players that make mmos money are the ones that feed the people who are willing to play it 12 hours a day, not the type of players that get good at a game, "win" and move on."