Sentinel buffs on the PTS!

[JustinxDuff]

Jedi Knight

 

 

Sentinel

 

• 
  Pacify: This ability can no longer be used on Operation Boss enemies.
  

 

Watchman

 

• Plasma Blades: Now increases damage dealt by burn effects by 5% per point.

• Searing Saber: Now correctly modifies the critical damage dealt by burn effects.

• Changes to Searing Saber and Plasma Blades result in an overall increase in Damage Per Second.
  

 

 

 

 

Full notes here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260938

Edited February 2, 2012 by JustinxDuff

[Tumri]

It's a nerf not a buff. Another player did the math out and posted it on the forums.

[JustinxDuff]

It's a nerf not a buff. Another player did the math out and posted it on the forums.

 

How?

 

Instead of a 6% bonus to bleed damage we get 15%. Our critical burns also hit harder as opposed to all burns hitting for 30%. I am sorry but I trust BWs testing metrics over some random forum poster.

Edited February 2, 2012 by JustinxDuff

[Araxus]

We don't need a damage buff, our damage is fine. We need a hard stun and/or a push/pull player displacement mechanic.

 

And that "buff" only affects one tree. They trying to force all sents to be cookie cutter now?

[JustinxDuff]

We don't need a damage buff, our damage is fine. We need a hard stun and/or a push/pull player displacement mechanic.

 

And that "buff" only affects one tree. They trying to force all sents to be cookie cutter now?

 

Watchman isnt a cookie cutter spec.....focus is

[OldxLady]

Love how they buff Watchman, when it the best balanced tree in the game :/

Ahh well, my theory stands... Bioware hierd monkeys from the rainforrest to do the game balance. What they do is having 100 monkeys randomly clicking on keys, and when there is a pathern they implement it >.<

Edited February 2, 2012 by OldxLady

[JustinxDuff]

Love how they buff Watchman, when it the best balanced tree in the game :/

Ahh well, my theory stands... Bioware hierd monkeys from the rainforrest to do the game balance. What they do is having 100 monkeys randomly clicking on keys, and when there is a pathern they implement it >.<

 

I agree with you. I would like to have seen some buffs to combat.

[SteveGarbage]

*Shrug* Sounds good, I guess. I'm sure raiders will be upset about Pacify, though.

[Llightning]

Love how they buff Watchman, when it the best balanced tree in the game :/

 

I was hoping Bioware would avoid the play 1 spec to compete format that Blizzard had.

[flowqz]

*Shrug* Sounds good, I guess. I'm sure raiders will be upset about Pacify, though.

 

who cares about pacify, we got sniper shields!

 

seriously... using pacify on a boss seemed like an exploit on some encounters.

[EasymodeX]

Random normal crit rate: 28 + 15

Normal crit multiplier: 50 + 32

Base damage: 100

 

Live, bleed crit damage talent only: 100 * (1 + .43 * .82) * 1.3 = 176

Patch, bleed crit dmg talent only: 100 * (1 + .43 * 1.12) = 148

 

Live, bleed crit dmg and bleed dmg talents: 100 * (1 + .43 * .82) * 1.36 = 184

Patch, bleed crit dmg talent and dmg talent: 100 * (1 + .43 * 1.12) * 1.15 = 170

 

Live, crit dmg talent with 50% Zen: 100 * (1 + .72 * .82) * 1.3 = 207

Patch, crit dmg with 50% Zen: 100 * (1 + .72 * 1.12) = 181

 

Live, crit dmg and dmg and 50% Zen: 100 * (1 + .72 * .82) * 1.36 = 216

Patch, crit dmg and dmg and 50% Zen: 100 * (1 + .72 * 1.12) * 1.15 = 208

 

Live, crit dmg with 100% Zen: 100 * (1 + .82) * 1.3 = 237

Patch, crit dmg with 100% Zen: 100 * (1 + 1.12) = 212

 

Live, crit dmg and dmg with 100% Zen: 100 * (1 + .82) * 1.36 = 248

Patch, crit dmg and dmg with 100% Zen: 100 * (1 + 1.12) * 1.15 = 244

 

 

In all circumstances, Sents lose damage, unless the crit damage talent modifies the total damage directly (instead of "adding surge" which is the intuitive application). This will need to be tested. Especially for PvP builds that have to shave points off of the bleed/burn damage talent (Hemorrhage and your Sent equivalent).

[selectah]

Seems like a nerf to me:

 

Don`t know if thats right, but doing a little math i get to:

 

BaseDMG = BD; Critchance = CC; Critmultiplier = CM

 

Old DMG:

 

BD * 1.36 (30 percent from searing, 6 from plasma) + (CC * CM * BD)

 

New DMG:

 

BD * 1.15 (15 percent from plasma) + (CC * (CM + 0.3) * BD)

 

 

If you go on with the math you`ll get

 

0.21 = CC * (CM + 0,3 - CM)

 

That means you have to have a CC of > 70% to get the dmg boost.

 

Hard to imagine you to have a 70% crit chance overall...

[EasymodeX]

Just to add, if the crit damage talent functions as a total multiplier instead of "ADDING SURGE", then it's not as bad:

 

Live, crit dmg and dmg talent, 50% Zen: 100 * (1-.72 + .72 * 1.82) * 1.36 = 216

Live, no dmg talent (PvP specs): 206

Patch, crit dmg and dmg talent, 50% Zen: 100 * (1-.72 + .72 * 1.82 * 1.3) * 1.15 = 228

Patch, no dmg talent (PvP specs): 228 / 1.15 = 198

 

 

No Zen:

 

Live, both talents: 100 * (1-.43 + .43 * 1.82) * 1.36 = 184

Live, no dmg talent: 176

Patch, both talents: 100 * (1-.43 + .43 * 1.82 * 1.3) * 1.15 = 183

Patch, no dmg talent: 159

 

100% Zen:

 

Live, both: 100 * (1.82) * 1.36 = 184

Live, no dmg talent: 176

Patch, both: 100 * (1.82) * 1.3 * 1.15 = 272

Patch, no dmg talent: 237

 

So, hopefully the talent uses this calculation, even though this will lead to scaling issues later on. By that I mean say goodbye to any hope Carnage had as a viable sustained DPS spec, unless it gets serious buffs.

Edited February 2, 2012 by EasymodeX

[EasymodeX]

Old DMG:

 

BD * 1.36 (30 percent from searing, 6 from plasma) + (CC * CM * BD)

 

Your formulas are incorrect. It is:

 

BD * 1.36 * (1 + CC * CM)

 

Or:

 

BD * 1.36 * (1 - CC + CC * (1+CM))

[biovenger]

Every way I calculate it, it seems like a DPS loss for the PTR patch. Don't know what numbers they calculated on to get their results, but unless there's a hidden modifier that's increased somewhere, it's wrong.

 

No matter what combination of talents you use, it's always a loss. Especially since surge rating seems to cap at 100%. Overall it seems like a 5-8% dps loss.

 

It's only slightly though, but yes it's an overall DPS loss. For PVP it's nice though. Being able to get bigger crits when popping Zen will add burst.

 

I truly hope the 30% are added after the fact, and not being surge rating. I hope that if enough people from the community make noise, Bioware will explain this, or at least correct the error. They did say it was a buff, so we can only assume this was the intended behaviour and thus the patch's effects are the opposite.

[onurgg]

aite, this is my first post but been watching the problems over sents for a while. and those who say this is a nerf are incorrect due to the 2 simple facts.

 

NEW:

 

Plasma Blades: Now increases damage dealt by burn effects by 5% per point.

Searing Saber: Now correctly modifies the critical damage dealt by burn effects. (this is an addition on top of your surge... the skill has always been calculated this way and no they are not taking the surge rating out but adding +30% on top of the surge rating you currently have)

 

OLD:

 

Plasma Blades: Damage dealt by burn effects by 2% per point. (Plasma blades was adding 2% per point and now they're upping it to 5% per point which means with 3 skill points you'll have 15%)

Searing Saber: WAS NOT ADDING 30% crit (which was a known bug and getting fixed)

 

 

I nowhere see this as a nerf but a bug fix and an upped burn damage... How are you guys reading some of this context ? Not trying to be mean, but please pay attention to the details. "per point"

Edited February 2, 2012 by onurgg

[biovenger]

aite, this is my first post but been watching the problems over sents for a while. and those who say this is a nerf are incorrect due to the 2 simple facts.

 

NEW:

 

Plasma Blades: Now increases damage dealt by burn effects by 5% per point.

Searing Saber: Now correctly modifies the critical damage dealt by burn effects. (this is an addition on top of your surge... the skill has always been calculated this way and no they are not taking the surge rating out but adding +30% on top of the surge rating you currently have)

 

OLD:

 

Plasma Blades: Damage dealt by burn effects by 2% per point. (Plasma blades was adding 2% per point and now they're upping it to 5% per point which means with 3 skill points you'll have 15%)

Searing Saber: WAS NOT ADDING 30% crit (which was a known bug and getting fixed)

 

 

I nowhere see this as a nerf but a bug fix and an upped burn damage... How are you guys reading some of this context ? Not trying to be mean, but please pay attention to the details. "per point"

 

The Searing Saber talent previously incorrectly added 30% base damage. If the calculation is done, this means we go from 30% passive damage bonus to only 15%, while having 30% extra surge. When done for all possible scenarios, this leads to a small nerf, and not a buff.

[Avidx]

Just to add, if the crit damage talent functions as a total multiplier instead of "ADDING SURGE", then it's not as bad.

 

True, we don't know the additive/multiplicative nature of their algorithms yet, so it's hard to speculate how exactly our damage will be affected.

 

 

Searing Saber: WAS NOT ADDING 30% crit (which was a known bug and getting fixed)

 

 

I nowhere see this as a nerf but a bug fix and an upped burn damage... How are you guys reading some of this context ? Not trying to be mean, but please pay attention to the details. "per point"

 

The bug was that Searing Saber was adding 30% to base damage instead of crit damage, resulting in a 36% increase in base damage total from the watchman tree. The new patch will make this into a 15% increase in base damage with a 30% increase in crit damage. Napkin math shows this to be a decrease in damage output, but again, we don't know the additive/multiplicative nature of these additions so it's all just speculation. We won't know for sure until the patch hits the pts.

[onurgg]

The Searing Saber talent previously incorrectly added 30% base damage. If the calculation is done, this means we go from 30% passive damage bonus to only 15%, while having 30% extra surge. When done for all possible scenarios, this leads to a small nerf, and not a buff.

 

yes sir, i understand that. but just trying to lay it out:

 

if i do a 400 tick burn dmg, this was critting for 400*1.36 = 544 per tick (this is absolutely with 0 surge rating, and ik its impossible), where as with the patch, isn't it going to be 400*1.15*1.30=598 ? like somebody here said that they hoped they'll use this calculation. This is just what i got out of it, and absolutely a mess of confusion and frusturation for everybody after all.

[cosmasterkiller]

Searing Saber: WAS NOT ADDING 30% crit (which was a known bug and getting fixed)

 

 

I nowhere see this as a nerf but a bug fix and an upped burn damage... How are you guys reading some of this context ? Not trying to be mean, but please pay attention to the details. "per point"

 

It was adding 30% damage increase to your bleed effects instead of 30% critical multiplier. You were getting a massive buff and didn't know it. Instead of a 30% damage modifier you will now receive 15% damage modifier. That is a bigger damage reduction than the critical multiplier they are putting in place.

 

It's absolutely a damage decrease.

[EasymodeX]

Um, Searing currently adds 30% base damage. Thankyou.

[thanealpha]

I don't see anyone talking about the clearly obvious point in all of this.

 

Sentinel players who seem happy with the class are almost exclusively running Watchman.

 

Sentinel players who feel gimped and are not experiencing the game as a DPS class are almost exclusively running Combat.

 

Why are they not addressing Combat?

[EasymodeX]

I'm sure they will in the future.

[soove]

There was a forum post that said, they known about the 30% crit bug, and would buff base dmg, and fix the skill to properly work, now maybe they didnt follow through and just buffed the other skill to 15%, or its not on the notes.

 

But as said, we will be doing 30% more dmg during zen, as a overall increase, and makes crit/surge a more attractive stat.

 

36% base dmg to only 15%, but tack a 30% on top of that its seems its a 9% increase in dmg for crits/zen?

[EasymodeX]

36% base dmg to only 15%, but tack a 30% on top of that its seems its a 9% increase in dmg for crits/zen?

 

No. No offense, but just read my posts on the last page.

 

If you want to learn, then understand that the concept you are missing is 'marginal diminishing returns'. Basically, you normally have "16%" bonus damage (Juyo + talent). The +30% is a "big deal" because you have so little of it to start with.

 

Normally, you have +80% crit damage multiplier from surge ALREADY. +30% on top is a "small deal", since you normally have a ton of surge already.

 

They are removing a "big deal" and giving us a "small deal", that only actually works when you crit.

 

They're also going back and giving us another "small deal" with the +9% base damage on the other talent.

 

1 big deal > 2 small deals.

 

Unless they implemented the talent in the other way, which would make 2 small deals > 1 big deal, when you crit. But, we will see. I wonder if it's worth testing the crit damage talents in the other trees to see how they function in detail.