PvP Gear changes in 1.2 , let me get this straight...

[Samurro]

This is a dangerous route to take. PvE gear is already better in PvP for certain classes and this might cause extreme pve/pvp balance issues.

 

Rofl, tell my which one please? This is nonsense...

[RobNightfall]

because pvp is more about competition than progression.

 

This. PvP isn't about better gear, it's about better play.

[-Fenix]

Great news for real PVPers. Too bad for the gear whoring e-sporters, though. Thanks for alerting me to this good news.

[AndrosX]

Because PVP is not PVE. The linear gear progression model is designed for PVE---PVP progression should be lateral, not linear, and the major determiner of PVP success should always be skill. Not gear, skill. Skill individually, skill at teamwork. Go play an FPS sometime and you'll see what I mean. Trying to apply the linear gear progression model to PVP that works so well for PVE leads to gear being the major determiner of PVP victories, such as in RIFT. And we all know how fun that is.

 

Look, I know the impulse a lot of MMO PVPers feel, all too well: "I had to slog through this horrible experience, and by God everyone else should as well (now that I'm geared and dominating.)"

 

My friend, that is not PVP. That is called hazing.

 

BW is making the right call here. Sorry you're being a wuss about it.

 

 

I could agree with this, although I do think loot and gear should also matter (you don't go to a modern war wielding a Garand or wearing obsolete body armor).

 

However, if this is the case, then we have to make sure PvE gear will never give equal or higher bonus in PvP than the PvP gear.

In these modern games you are forced to raid if you want the top gear (while for example in swg, you could purchase top class loot-made gear and buffs from player crafters and you'd only be second to the handful of people who had an ultra rare looted weapon), yet not everyone has the time or the opportunity to do so.

If PvP has to be skill based, then PvE players should not get an advantage in PvP due to the gear they have obtained thru PvE content.

[Tharrn]

I could agree with this, although I do think loot and gear should also matter (you don't go to a modern war wielding a Garand or wearing obsolete body armor).

 

However, if this is the case, then we have to make sure PvE gear will never give equal or higher bonus in PvP than the PvP gear.

In these modern games you are forced to raid if you want the top gear (while for example in swg, you could purchase top class loot-made gear and buffs from player crafters and you'd only be second to the handful of people who had an ultra rare looted weapon), yet not everyone has the time or the opportunity to do so.

If PvP has to be skill based, then PvE players should not get an advantage in PvP due to the gear they have obtained thru PvE content.

 

The easiest way would be to have something like expertise on PvE gear that only has an effect in instances. There you go - raid tiers with a bloody gate - as the raiders like it.

[Adzzy]

Already there with the boxes in ilum. 4 hours in there and not 1 red name came up on the screen.

 

Ilum

 

If there's too many of your side, you're reduced to collecting boxes

If there's too little of your side, you can't really do anything

If it's about even, the place can be fun.

 

In essence it's an open world pvp area that has drastic issues if there's any sort of imbalance of numbers....

 

You'd think that would set off some red flags.

[Princz]

If they nerf expertise i want same stats on BM gear as Rakata... Then its all fair you can take expertise...

[Asnine]

Rofl, tell my which one please? This is nonsense...

 

I thought the merc/commando (dps) 2 piece bonus > BM?

 

 

Just as an example

 

@ppl who think they're nerfing expertise

Maybe they are. But do you really think they would do it without bumping up the base stats of the gear?

 

Then again, this is also the company that can't even fix a win no counting towards the daily, and who thought that not putting in a death zone in Ilum whilst having huge pop imbalances was a good idea.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Asnine

[heikaze]

Rofl, tell my which one please? This is nonsense...

 

Lets take the Operative 2 piece PvE bonus - 15 percent backstab critical chance increase. People are already running 3 PvP with 2 PvE bonus chance.

 

ALL PvE gear have better stats than PvP gear minus the expertise.

 

If they continue to lower stats of the PvP gear, players will just run around in PvE gear. And sub-par skilled player will come to forum crying about that, no doubt.

[Luxidenstore]

Make the old blue gear craftable from Synthweaving, Armormech, Armstech and Artifice.

 

Make Centurion gear purchasable from WZ commendations.

 

Make Champion Bags drop a champion token every time. Change the price of gear to the amount of tokens that represent the grind you want it to be.

 

Do the same for BM bags..

Edited February 2, 2012 by Luxidenstore

[Forsbacka]

I am not calling for the gear to be equal. I am only trying to make a comparison. That new PVE players have a gap in effectiveness between them and people with PVE gear who have put time and effort in order to have that increase in effectiveness.

 

I am only trying to understand what this shouldn't be the same in a PVP environment.

 

Well there isnt any hardmodes in PvP. Its same thing over and over again in normal WZs that doesnt matter at all if you win or not. In Pve you actually have to succesfully kill things to get the gear.

[Hidden]

I wish they would get rid of gear all togther personaly. This PvP for little awards is a plague on the true beauty of PvP, competition.

 

I am a minority these days in that, but hey, we all have our opinion.

 

I don't care whether PvP gear is great, or not, for me, I'll PvP either way, and wont cry if I get all the gear about what next.

 

TH

[Amiracle]

So this post is in regards to : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

Essentially half way though the post it is stated that pvp gear will be reduced in effectiveness to reduce the gap between incoming 50 pvpers and current 50 pvpers with some amount of gear.

 

Now let me get this straight...

 

If I understand correctly: Pve'rs go through Operations/Hard modes in order to get gear. They do this in order to be able to undertake harder operations/hard modes and ultimately nightmare mode. They have an incentive to gear up in order to more adequately handle PVE encounters.

 

So according to logic. Pvp players do their best to obtain gear in order to more adequately handle PvP encounters.

 

So an incoming level 50 who intends to PVE most also catch up to current level 50 players with adequate PVE gear, in order to be as effective.

 

Why should incoming PvP players be treated any differently?

 

Time and effort rewards PVE players with gear. This gear sets them from the rest of the community in terms of their effectiveness in handling PVE environments.

 

This same effort rewards PVP players. The time and effort you put in to the game should yield moderate results. Parallel and equal to the rewards that a PVE player gets for their perseverance.

 

If PvP gear is , well for lack of a better word "standardized" to a certain extent. What is there to differentiate a player who puts in time and effort in order to be more effective than general community at what he or she enjoys, which is success to a certain extent in a pvp environment.

 

Before you start flaming me, declaring that I am an elitist, I am only valor rank 36. And I am not severely geared, I am currently in a mix of centurion/champion gear with many, many holes in it. I am not trying to declare that people with gear should dominate those without it. But I think that degrading those who have put time and effort into obtaining their gear should not be penalized for trying to do well.

 

 

Funny thing about PvP.

 

When new players joined and lose all the time and die within seconds they stop doing pvp.

 

Then you end up with geared players all whining on the forums because there is no pvp.

 

Haven't we realized this with all the pvp games that have failed.

 

Never seen a group of people so keen on ruining there own fun.

[Hidden]

Funny thing about PvP.

 

When new players joined and lose all the time and die within seconds they stop doing pvp.

 

Then you end up with geared players all whining on the forums because there is no pvp.

 

Haven't we realized this with all the pvp games that have failed.

 

Never seen a group of people so keen on ruining there own fun.

 

Thing is though the players who give up to easily are never real competition at any stage of PvP, so then we are back to stage 1.

 

TH

[RealAeiouy]

Funny thing about PvP.

 

When new players joined and lose all the time and die within seconds they stop doing pvp.

 

Then you end up with geared players all whining on the forums because there is no pvp.

 

Haven't we realized this with all the pvp games that have failed.

 

Never seen a group of people so keen on ruining there own fun.

 

Pvp players don't care about minor gear grinds they get by just playing pvp. Also they welcome the challenge of being up against competition with better gear.

 

The only people who care are pve players who try to use pvp to gear up. Who cares if they pvp.

[VertisReaper]

using common sense I can see why bioware decided to do this. This would allow fresh 50s to gear up faster as they would be getting centurion gear much faster. The progression from questing gear > centurion > champion will have less RNG. This is a good thing, I'm not sure why everyone is up in arms. You won't have some dude who just hit 50 who got really lucky and gets all decked out, while another poor SOB has nothing to show for it just because he was unlucky. Edited February 2, 2012 by VertisReaper

[vimm]

forcing pvpers to pve. It's Wow all over again.

 

Or SWG!

[Amiracle]

Thing is though the players who give up to easily are never real competition at any stage of PvP, so then we are back to stage 1.

 

TH

 

Lets see. 2 groups of people have the top gear.

 

Those that exploited/wintrade and those that fought others in quest/pve gear.

 

You did not have to fight people in BM gear as you are in the first group of people to get the gear.

 

You do not have the same pvp experience as someone going up against players in full BM gear.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Amiracle

[Safgril]

Pvp players don't care about minor gear grinds they get by just playing pvp. Also they welcome the challenge of being up against competition with better gear.

 

The only people who care are pve players who try to use pvp to gear up. Who cares if they pvp.

 

wrong... i would quit a game if I do NOT have a shot in PVP..

 

Age of Conan... get this.. .not only do they have a gear gap tied to pvp... they increased it even more... I quit because of this...

 

in order to levle up in ranks you have to kill somebody... now a fresh 50 rank 1 vs a 50 rank 5 in AOC... stood there.. didnt attack me.... i hit him .. hit him.. hit him... i saw barely a hair of health go down... mind you he was in my guild... did this for a few minutes... i couldnt even damage him as much as he damaged me in ONE SWING.. we were both the same class too by the way.

 

I unsubscribed.. said the game is crapola... now they have 10 ranks.. and would never set foot in that game even if its free...

 

the gear takes the skill out of the players hands and into the gear... those same PVPers would say you suck on the forums if you complained about the gear gap...

 

so are you guys like this? Id prefer a challenge when I pvp ... that means PLAYER vs PLAYER... and not the GEAR vs UNGEARED...

[Amiracle]

Pvp players don't care about minor gear grinds they get by just playing pvp. Also they welcome the challenge of being up against competition with better gear.

 

The only people who care are pve players who try to use pvp to gear up. Who cares if they pvp.

 

 

THis made me laugh.........thats why there are so many failed pvp games because most pvprs like being the under dog.......rofl.

[Safgril]

Or SWG!

 

PRE CU SWG was not pve oriented.. it was about crafted gear...

[Zeami]

So this post is in regards to : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

Essentially half way though the post it is stated that pvp gear will be reduced in effectiveness to reduce the gap between incoming 50 pvpers and current 50 pvpers with some amount of gear.

 

Now let me get this straight...

 

If I understand correctly: Pve'rs go through Operations/Hard modes in order to get gear. They do this in order to be able to undertake harder operations/hard modes and ultimately nightmare mode. They have an incentive to gear up in order to more adequately handle PVE encounters.

 

So according to logic. Pvp players do their best to obtain gear in order to more adequately handle PvP encounters.

 

So an incoming level 50 who intends to PVE most also catch up to current level 50 players with adequate PVE gear, in order to be as effective.

 

Why should incoming PvP players be treated any differently?

 

Time and effort rewards PVE players with gear. This gear sets them from the rest of the community in terms of their effectiveness in handling PVE environments.

 

This same effort rewards PVP players. The time and effort you put in to the game should yield moderate results. Parallel and equal to the rewards that a PVE player gets for their perseverance.

 

If PvP gear is , well for lack of a better word "standardized" to a certain extent. What is there to differentiate a player who puts in time and effort in order to be more effective than general community at what he or she enjoys, which is success to a certain extent in a pvp environment.

 

Before you start flaming me, declaring that I am an elitist, I am only valor rank 36. And I am not severely geared, I am currently in a mix of centurion/champion gear with many, many holes in it. I am not trying to declare that people with gear should dominate those without it. But I think that degrading those who have put time and effort into obtaining their gear should not be penalized for trying to do well.

 

Quit complaining nerd, its not that serious. With skill, blues with endurance more can beat purps with no skill 9/10. It's high time the forums start being used for constructive criticism and not lol girls ************.

[Yettofall]

Because pvp and pve are different. Whether someone hits 50 now, last week, or a year from now the dungeons will be the same. They will not scale up with gear. This means that what was a viable path when servers first launched will still be a viable path. But PVP? No. In a year from now our gear will be at least one full tier higher probably two. You expect fresh 50s to grind against that?

 

yes i do, because the game stays the same (pve wise) and players come and go (pvp uber geared people will leave eventually sometime)

[Robwinter]

 

If I understand correctly: Pve'rs go through Operations/Hard modes in order to get gear. They do this in order to be able to undertake harder operations/hard modes and ultimately nightmare mode. They have an incentive to gear up in order to more adequately handle PVE encounters.

 

So according to logic. Pvp players do their best to obtain gear in order to more adequately handle PvP encounters.

 

So an incoming level 50 who intends to PVE most also catch up to current level 50 players with adequate PVE gear, in order to be as effective.

 

Why should incoming PvP players be treated any differently?

 

I can see just one problem. I hit 50 a while back and did not intend to go pwn the hardest Operation on the same day. You progress through PvE end-game content.

How is that reflected in PvP after level 50 exactly? PvP now is like going to the same Operation over and over again, losing and after 50, 100, more? ... runs finally having the chance to beat the boss. It's more 'shocking' after the fun 1-49 bracket.

To be clear on this: I do NOT want the nerf of PvP gear I just want to have some chance of playing against people with equal gear to mine. I've read that it's going to even out later on, but personally I think most people who just want to compete and have fun in PvP will just reroll and play in the lower bracket.

Not to mention the fact that people like me who have no intention of taking advantage of exploits to get more valor/better gear will always be at a disadvantage compared to 'real PvPers.'

 

o/

Edited February 2, 2012 by Robwinter

[DinesenDK]

OP:

 

you read this part wrong mate.:

 

"As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high."

 

It just says that new 50ish will get Tier 1 faster, to minimize the gap. And nowhere in the article does it say that PvE is or will become better at PvP, or that PVP gear will be nerfed. It only says that the difference within pvp gear-wise among 50ish will be minimized.

 

Afterall it is easier to let new 50ish get centurion faster, then to alter all stats on Champ, BM gear, and all PVE gear so PVE wont be ahead - I think that is close to what they will do.

 

But again, it is a guess, I can't deny that - Pretty good guess if you ask me.