wheres powerful sidious?

[PunkSolo]

May not have to do with this time period but I feel ill get a quick answer here. I keep hearing that Sidious is the most powerful sith in history. From what i see in the movies and what Iv'e read of other sith that seems highly unlikely. All i remember is him being picked up and chucked down a shaft. So can someone recommend some EU stuff that shows how powerful he actually was? because this is starting to bother me that i'm so out of the know on him.

[Wolfninjajedi]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine#Powers_and_abilities

 

That'll cover it in a nutshell.

[PunkSolo]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine#Powers_and_abilities

 

That'll cover it in a nutshell.

 

well yeah i knew about that lol. but i would rather get the feeling that comes with someone writing about what happened. Also i just finished Decieved and need to find my next bunch of EU books to read.

[darth_freefall]

Not sure where you can read about but the reason it was never showed is because the movies were made in the 70/80s showing off awesome force powers probably wasn't even a possibility in their minds at the time

[DarthMoord]

A lot of it's in Dark Empire, Dark Empire II, and Empire's End.

[Srenni]

First you should read the Bane trilogy which involves the "rule of two" which is what Sidious follows to achive his goal. Then i'd recommend reading "Darth Plagueis" (a book about Sidious's master) And that should get you started.

 

Also just a note, being incredible strong in the force does not make one the strongest Sith.

[Rhyltran]

First you should read the Bane trilogy which involves the "rule of two" which is what Sidious follows to achive his goal. Then i'd recommend reading "Darth Plagueis" (a book about Sidious's master) And that should get you started.

 

Also just a note, being incredible strong in the force does not make one the strongest Sith.

 

That's true. However, Sidious is the strongest Sith.

[Makoto_Shishio]

May not have to do with this time period but I feel ill get a quick answer here. I keep hearing that Sidious is the most powerful sith in history. From what i see in the movies and what Iv'e read of other sith that seems highly unlikely. All i remember is him being picked up and chucked down a shaft. So can someone recommend some EU stuff that shows how powerful he actually was? because this is starting to bother me that i'm so out of the know on him.

 

Read Dark empire, he is the only known force user to be able to summon hyperspace wormholes that can ravage a planets surface and destroy entire armadas.

 

Then theres him having the same ability as Nihilus except that he controls his power rather than his power controlling him.

 

 

Sidious is the undisputed number 1 sith of all time.

[Castiel]

That's true. However, Sidious is the strongest Sith.

 

Jesus dude, seriously?

[Nerzhul]

Lucas Licensing:

In 2000, Lucas Licensing appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity tracking database referred to as the "Holocron". As with every other aspect having to do with the overall story of Star Wars, the Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years.

 

The Holocron is divided into 5 levels (in order of precedence): G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, and N-canon.

 

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.

 

T-canon refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.

 

C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.

 

S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

 

N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I-III.

 

 

From George Lucas:

LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."

 

 

Ok so, my big problem with the whole Sidious and Dark Empire stuff is that DE deals with the saga of what happens to the characters that Lucas himself created after the story has emphatically ended, according to Lucas. These aren't continuity characters such as the ones we have in all the eras pre-Sidious, these are characters created by the original author of the universe.

 

I've tried and tried to find canon ratings of all the works according to Lucas Licensing but it's difficult to find them. As far as I can tell, DE would certainly not rank above a "C" canon rating. TOR, KOTOR, and the TFU are very popular examples of "C" canon material. Of course the game play mechanics and the role playing by players in the SW universe is "S" canon.

 

Lucas created Sidious and Luke. It just seems that DE is a pretty big departure from the characters that Lucas himself created.

 

By the continuity scale above, I would assume that DE and the events surrounding Sidious and Luke, would be ranked as either "S" or possibly "N" canon (anything else directly contradicted by a higher canon), as it does seem to be a contradiction of Lucas' work and character design. Not to mention the direct quote by Lucas that it's all over at the end of ROTJ. Like I said, it's been difficult to find an actual rating for the works in the SW universe.

 

Lets' suppose that DE is in fact "C" canon. TOR would be "C" canon as well. This leaves plenty of credence to the argument that Sidious is indeed the most powerful Sith of all time. However, it still leaves the problem of the "G" canon trumping everything we know about Sidious. Everything that Lucas said Sidious was, he is. Period. That leaves plenty of room for people to argue that Sidious was only what he appears to be and is described as in the movies, and that he could not be resurrected because Lucas killed him and ended the story of that character.

 

Now, if we suppose or find out that DE is less than "C" canon, and it falls into "S" or "N" canon, then "C" canon would trump the two below it and the characters from TOR would take a higher place in the canon than would the ones from DE.

 

It's be nice if anyone could find the canon ratings. If DE turns out to "C" canon, then I think we can say without a doubt that Sidious was the most powerful Sith ever, as the DE works would be on par with TOR and works such as the Bane series(incidentally, I believe the idea of Bane and the rule of two was created by Lucas himself). If it turned out to be a lower canon rating, then I think that the Sith from TOR and other works in the "C" canon would trump the idea of Sidious having ever even existed after ROTJ.

 

Even still, Lucas contradicts himself all the time. I think we all know this by now(Han shot first anyone?). There are accounts out there that Lucas himself has praised the DE series saying that "it was the closest thing to his idea of a sequel trilogy."

 

That guy drives me nuts. I think he does that crap on purpose.

 

Just my thoughts. In the end, Lucas and his licensing gurus would have the ultimate say on the matter, wouldn't they? Someone has to be the boss

Edited February 2, 2012 by Nerzhul

[_Zorth_]

Lucas Licensing:

 

 

 

From George Lucas:

 

 

 

Ok so, my big problem with the whole Sidious and Dark Empire stuff is that DE deals with the saga of what happens to the characters that Lucas himself created after the story has emphatically ended, according to Lucas. These aren't continuity characters such as the ones we have in all the eras pre-Sidious, these are characters created by the original author of the universe.

 

I've tried and tried to find canon ratings of all the works according to Lucas Licensing but it's difficult to find them. As far as I can tell, DE would certainly not rank above a "C" canon rating. TOR, KOTOR, and the TFU are very popular examples of "C" canon material. Of course the game play mechanics and the role playing by players in the SW universe is "S" canon.

 

Lucas created Sidious and Luke. It just seems that DE is a pretty big departure from the characters that Lucas himself created.

 

By the continuity scale above, I would assume that DE and the events surrounding Sidious and Luke, would be ranked as either "S" or possibly "N" canon (anything else directly contradicted by a higher canon), as it does seem to be a contradiction of Lucas' work and character design. Not to mention the direct quote by Lucas that it's all over at the end of ROTJ. Like I said, it's been difficult to find an actual rating for the works in the SW universe.

 

Lets' suppose that DE is in fact "C" canon. TOR would be "C" canon as well. This leaves plenty of credence to the argument that Sidious is indeed the most powerful Sith of all time. However, it still leaves the problem of the "G" canon trumping everything we know about Sidious. Everything that Lucas said Sidious was, he is. Period. That leaves plenty of room for people to argue that Sidious was only what he appears to be and is described as in the movies, and that he could not be resurrected because Lucas killed him and ended the story of that character.

 

Now, if we suppose or find out that DE is less than "C" canon, and it falls into "S" or "N" canon, then "C" canon would trump the two below it and the characters from TOR would take a higher place in the canon than would the ones from DE.

 

It's be nice if anyone could find the canon ratings. If DE turns out to "C" canon, then I think we can say without a doubt that Sidious was the most powerful Sith ever, as the DE works would be on par with TOR and works such as the Bane series(incidentally, I believe the idea of Bane and the rule of two was created by Lucas himself). If it turned out to be a lower canon rating, then I think that the Sith from TOR and other works in the "C" canon would trump the idea of Sidious having ever even existed after ROTJ.

 

Just my thoughts. Lucas and his licensing gurus would have the ultimate say on the matter in the end though, wouldn't they? Someone has to be the boss

 

In Lucas vision none of the EU exists..

No Revan, No Old Republic, Nothing.

 

Some people wonder why things in the EU happen BEFORE the saga, Well..

 

It's because you can re-use the things that made the OT good (ship designs, story, character designs.. etc.) and make it seem like the author's content was the first i.e The SWTOR Empire ship designs.. they look alot like the orignal star destroyers, well apparently Sidious got inspired by the Sith Empire and stole their ship designs to create the empire's armada..

 

 

[JDTC]

at least GL recognized how profoundly horrific the post-ROTJ stuff was. cloned palpatine!? way to go vader, your heroic sacrifice and redemption means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

[Nerzhul]

In Lucas vision none of the EU exists..

No Revan, No Old Republic, Nothing.

 

Some people wonder why things in the EU happen BEFORE the saga, Well..

 

It's because you can re-use the things that made the OT good (ship designs, story, character designs.. etc.) and make it seem like the author's content was the first i.e The SWTOR Empire ship designs.. they look alot like the orignal star destroyers, well apparently Sidious got inspired by the Sith Empire and stole their ship designs to create the empire's armada..

 

 

 

Mostly, but not entirely. There are instances of Lucas working with EU authors, writing prologues for stories, creating Darth Bane as a back story for the Rule of Two, etc.

 

If you take "G" canon and "T" canon as the only official part of the story, then everything else is thrown out. If we throw everything out but the movies and television shows and stuff that Lucas said or made himself, then Sidious would definitely be the most powerful Sith of all time. You wouldn't even have to look at the DE series because it would be just as irrelevant as TOR and everything else. In that case, Sidious still wins.

 

But yes, like he said, SW was supposed to be the story of Darth Vader. Anakin is born, becomes a Jedi, falls to the dark side (wow, how many times has that theme been rehashed!), brings balance to the force by killing Sidious, and dies. End of story. But, with that being the end of the story, for me the EU before the events Espisode 1 are lot easier to swallow than the events afterwards. The continuity of everything that leads up to Anakin's birth should always lead up to, well Anakin's birth. It's a much more open and expandable universe for me personally.

 

Some more original ship designs would be nice, rather than "Star Destroyers" called Imperial Dreadnaughts

 

I would just like to see the Holocron ratings of all the EU works that exist. Then we could see what Lucas and the Licensing guys think about all of it and where they rank it in regards to canon.

 

 

at least GL recognized how profoundly horrific the post-ROTJ stuff was. cloned palpatine!? way to go vader, your heroic sacrifice and redemption means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

The whole thing about Vader was that he FULFILLED the prophecy of the one that would bring balance! He kills Sidious and brings balance. Resurrecting Sidious is like saying "what's this prophecy nonsense that is at the heart of the entire story.........lets just throw that out." I have a hard time reconciling that.

 

But, in defense of Tom Veitch, how the hell could he have known about the prophecy, or about Anakin's back story before the prequels? It's not like Lucas told anyone what the story was and DE was written in the early 90's. Unless I seriously missed something in the original trilogy that gave that away. Had the prequels all been out, I doubt the story of DE would have been what it was or possibly even existed at all, based on how contradictory it is.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Nerzhul

[Seductivpancakes]

And every novel and comic that is based after RotJ suggests that the force really isn't balanced even when Palpatine is killed for good.

 

Its better for each individual fan to make their own canon time line and story.

[Rhyltran]

Jesus dude, seriously?

 

Seriously. It's been proven many many times. Even Lucas Entertainment has come out and said Sidious is the strongest Sith. You can't argue that. Leland Chee created the rules of Canon. He created the rules in which everyone follows. He said he's the strongest. There is no debate.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Rhyltran

[Spartanik]

But, with that being the end of the story, for me the EU before the events Espisode 1 are lot easier to swallow than the events afterwards.

That is the key point for me. personaly i find everything that comes before much more interesting.

Seriously. It's been proven many many times. Even Lucas Entertainment has come out and said Sidious is the strongest Sith. You can't argue that. Leland Chee created the rules of Canon. He created the rules in which everyone follows. He said he's the strongest. There is no debate.

yeah but you know as only the movies matter to him, Sidious he is also the only sith master in the movies so... yeah he ought to be more powerfull then dooku / Maul and vader. But in the end it doesnt realy matter so. Revan story is much more interesting, as well exar kun story, or ulic queldroma etc.

For me.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Spartanik

[Rhyltran]

That is the key point for me. personaly i find everything that comes before much more interesting.

yeah but you know as only the movies matter to him, Sidious he is also the only sith master in the movies so... yeah he ought to be more powerfull then dooku / Maul and vader. But in the end it doesnt realy matter so. Revan story is much more interesting, as well exar kun story, or ulic queldroma etc.

For me.

 

I agree. Which is what puzzles me when people try to deny Sidious being the strongest. He is the strongest but why can't a character, who is considered weaker, be more interesting? To me power doesn't make a character interesting. If that was the case my favorite Jedi wouldn't be Obi Wan. Canonically Yoda was more powerful than him and a better duelist but I still like Obi Wan far more than Yoda.

 

My favorite era jumps around. From the Legacy Era, to the old republic era, to the clone wars era. I also like many of the stories that revolve around in between the movie era. I've already, on these forums, stated my dissatisfaction with the Dark Empire series. Doesn't mean I pretend it doesn't exist either. Also what's more interesting is opinion and doesn't make things any more or less canon either.

[BlackLotus]

Kind of Ironic that he say there is no more story after RotJ, when he himself made a lot of money out it. For almost 25 years between the 2 trilogies Star wars was novels,video games & comic book granted some were rather awful but it is what kept SW alive when there was no films being made. I think he's being hypocryte(sp?) about it.

 

I mean look at Star trek if Gene had the same atitude as Lucas we wouldn't have had The next generation and all the other characters we love. Granted ST book time line is a mess compared to SW but still the Fans is what kept the IP alive and the same can be said about SW.

 

 

I wasn't fond of the clone war era, but well Rex made it all better I don't know why I just like him.

 

as for NJO I would rather forget that Anakin solo died or that Jacen turned to the dark side and that Jaina had to kill her own brother.

 

Legacy I also like tought some part of it are a bit meh for me, I did enjoy most of it.

 

the old republic is by far my favorite simply because of the Tales of the Jedi, we got to see first hand the fall of a great Jedi such as Exar kun, Ulic Qel-droma, the tragedy of Ulic's redemtion, The love story of Nomi, The mishaps of Zayne Carrick in KOTOR. All of that.

 

GL go my money atleast he should be decent to his fans and accept that SW goes beyond Anakin. Maybe it was when he first Started but it evolved into something more.

Edited February 2, 2012 by BlackLotus

[Nerzhul]

Also what's more interesting is opinion and doesn't make things any more or less canon either.

 

Yup, opinion and debate is fun and makes it more interesting. There's always someone out there that's read more and research more into the EU than I have and it's nice to be pointed in the direction of something new that you've never seen before.

 

Totally agree with the latter sentiment here. To each his own.

 

TOR and everything associated with it is my favorite era in the EU as well. I even like the TOR era and stories more than the original works/movies(gasp!). Yea, I said it

Edited February 2, 2012 by Nerzhul