Sorcerer Ability Extrication

[Gerrard_Ennui]

Please remove the pull from this ability.

 

The threat reduction utility is great, but the pull is just terrible. It can easily be used for harassment and griefing, but the biggest issue is that Extrication works like a knockback if you're casting or channeling - it interrupts you. Even a well-meaning player can cause a lot of frustration by making someone waste a cool down with extrication.

 

I can see knockbacks and pulls and effects similar to Extraction being widely used in PvP. In PvE though, I don't see why a player needs the ability to move other players around, specifically without their consent or permission. We have the /stuck command if we need it, what purpose does the pull on extrication actually serve? Is such an effect even necessary? Extrication is used for trolling and harassment just as often as its used legitimately.

 

In its current form, Extrication has great utility but questionable implementation. Please consider removing the pull from the Extrication ability.

[Cavistus]

I can see knockbacks and pulls and effects similar to Extraction being widely used in PvP. In PvE though, I don't see why a player needs the ability to move other players around, specifically without their consent or permission.

 

....

 

In its current form, Extrication has great utility but questionable implementation. Please consider removing the pull from the Extrication ability.

 

So, you want them to remove a mechanic that greatly benefits and diversifies PVP simply because your teammates are unable to use the skill appropriately in PVE?

 

That doesn't seem very fair to PVPers.

[Gerrard_Ennui]

So, you want them to remove a mechanic that greatly benefits and diversifies PVP simply because your teammates are unable to use the skill appropriately in PVE?

 

That doesn't seem very fair to PVPers.

PvP can stay just the way it is. My only complaint is that Extrication allows someone other than me to move my character. I just don't want other players to be able to do that (in PvE). That's all. Edited February 2, 2012 by Gerrard_Ennui

[Delekii]

Oh ****, the tank is about to get hit again and die!

 

Extricate!

 

Yay, now I can cast a heal and he lives!

 

 

 

Oh ****, the dps is standing in the fire and about to die!

 

Extricate!

 

Yay, now the dps lives!

 

 

 

 

If people are using extricate on you in ways that you don't like, discuss it with them. If it continues, don't group with them. You give your express consent for them to extricate you when and how they please when you click join group.

[Gerrard_Ennui]

If people are using extricate on you in ways that you don't like, discuss it with them. If it continues, don't group with them. You give your express consent for them to extricate you when and how they please when you click join group.

That's EXACTLY the problem. I can discuss it however i want. I can ask politely, i can /rage, i can even report them - but in the end, that player can decide to extricate me or anyone else, appropriately or otherwise and there's nothing anyone can do about it. That's as much potential for harassment as for proper use, and probably too much leeway to give to players in trusting them to not troll with the ability.

 

I maintain that the pull on Extrication should be removed or made into an entirely different ability.

[Excedrin]

That's EXACTLY the problem. I can discuss it however i want. I can ask politely, i can /rage, i can even report them - but in the end, that player can decide to extricate me or anyone else, appropriately or otherwise and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

 

What, you mean like leaving the group?

 

This post just can't be for real.

[Gerrard_Ennui]

What, you mean like leaving the group?

Obviously I'm not going to refuse to group with sorcerers, or drop group if I ever see one. That would be screwing myself over.

[pursang]

You should be thanking the healer for saving your bacon, not condemning an ability that clearly works as intended.

[E_c_c_e]

Dude...really ?

 

I know this is probably a troll trap set for stupid people like me...but still...

 

If you don't want to get pulled by a sorc..just leave his group...or don't make one in the first place...

 

and if your "friends" troll you with that skill..maybe it's time to look for new people to play with...

 

 

The skill is amazing and extremely useful both in PvP and PvE. I'm using it whenever I can even if it's just to pull a group member closer to the npc we need to talk to since I sprinted forward and he's slow

 

This ability has so many great uses in PvE and PvP I can't even begin to list them all...here are some of my favourites (which should make you understand why this pull is important and useful):

 

PvE:

 

- Pull someone to the edge of platform at Soa fight Eternity Vault or pull him down to the next platform in order to avoid dmg

 

- Pull someone to you Kaon HC at the kiting fight so he can keep his rota up easier (Tracer Missile stacks from Merc for example)

 

- Save someone from Annihilation Droid's dmg in Eternity Vault because you sprinted out of the LoS and the other guy is slow

 

- Get someone across the lava while changing platforms at Gharj (Eternity Vault)

 

- Pull a melee out of AoE at Gharj or the thousands of other fights that include Melee Range AoE (especially effective if you pull a marauder / jugger / powertech since they can instantly charge back in)

 

- Reduce aggro from someone if he had a lucky crit streak and his aggro reduce and the tank's taunts are on CD

 

etc. etc.

 

PvP:

 

- Pull someone up a lvl on huttball

 

- Pull someone to the goal line since he's stunned (Huttball)

 

- Pull the focus target of the enemy team out of the fray and save his a**

 

- Make a pull chain with several sorcs / sages in Huttball and troll the enemy team

 

etc. etc.

 

 

As you can see the uses for this skill are endless...by far one of my most cherished skills ever since I rerolled the second time.

 

If they would take out that pull I would want them to kill the enemy pull from Tankassassins and Bounty Hunters (+ ofc their mirror classes) and while they're at it nerf all the knockbacks and generally dumb down the game to a ridiculous lvl...

Edited February 2, 2012 by E_c_c_e

[Gerrard_Ennui]

You should be thanking the healer for saving your bacon, not condemning an ability that clearly works as intended.

Its not saving me.

 

Best scenario, It's just relocating me to a position I dont want to be in while simultaneously preventing me from taking an action. Worst case, its possibly making me lose a cooldown mid-channel, yanking me off an elevator or into fire/acid/lava/etc if the sorcerer decides to grief.

 

In addition, BH Arsenal Mercs (me) have their own threat reduction on a 45s timer. This isnt true of every class, though.

 

I am definitely not condemning Extrication. The utility is fine. I am however, suggesting that the pull mechanic is poorly implemented, prone to use for harassment, and annoying in a cooperative group setting.

[Gerrard_Ennui]

...I'm using it whenever I can even if it's just to pull a group member closer to the npc we need to talk to since I sprinted forward and he's slow

This is part of this issue with the ability; you shouldn't be able to do that.

 

It feels like way too much free reign given to allow a player to move someone else's character around at your whim, especially in the middle of a fight where being interrupted or moving around matters.

 

Like i said, I would be fine with Extrication becoming two abilities or just with the elimination of the pull. The threat reduction is great but there just isn't any practical reason why it requires a yank also.

 

PvE:

- Pull someone to the edge of platform at Soa fight Eternity Vault or pull him down to the next platform in order to avoid dmg

 

- Pull someone to you Kaon HC at the kiting fight so he can keep his rota up easier (Tracer Missile stacks from Merc for example)

 

- Save someone from Annihilation Droid's dmg in Eternity Vault because you sprinted out of the LoS and the other guy is slow

 

- Get someone across the lava while changing platforms at Gharj (Eternity Vault)

 

- Pull a melee out of AoE at Gharj or the thousands of other fights that include Melee Range AoE (especially effective if you pull a marauder / jugger / powertech since they can instantly charge back in)

 

- Reduce aggro from someone if he had a lucky crit streak and his aggro reduce and the tank's taunts are on CD

Those are good examples, but in every situation outlined above, the player being extricated was more than capable of moving themselves. Why do YOU need to do it? If people need to move, let them move by themselves with their own awareness or suffer the consequences. Only one of your examples involved threat at all.

[E_c_c_e]

Dude...really ?

 

So by the same token enemies shouldn't be able to kick you right ?

 

Or people to interrupt your skills at all ?

 

Or teammates to help you ?

 

Or people using skills in a good way ?

 

 

You certainly seem to be the most narrow minded and ungrateful player I've ever seen in my entire MMO history. Sure why should I sprint forward and pull someone to a safe location if he could just walk himself (and loose more hp during or die or whatever). Why should I work in a team and use my abilites at all ? Why play this game even ?

 

I'm outta here..I gotta pull some people around after inviting them to my group...

[Adzzy]

loosely veiled huttball complaint? Edited February 2, 2012 by Adzzy

[wolfmanrocker]

I grief a couple of friends once in a while with Extricate, creating ever more inventive uses of Extricate for the sake of a grief (light hearted) Ive also caught a team mate that was thrown off a balcony (arguably saving the HM FP)

 

Pulling a healer out of aggro was also a highlight of the many uses of extricate, its a Utility in PvE and as such isnt used ALL the time, just when a certain situation would benefit from it, but its rather unreasonable to expect the skill to be nerfed/cut down purely because you were pulled out of position wasting what must have been a very special Cooldown to you.

 

Yes it can be used to grief and may even be annoying, but in every case that i've used the skill when necessary in PvE no ones ever opened up a forum post on how it should be changed to better work with their gameplay (what I actually got was a "Thank You")

 

On first page says it somewhere, if you have a Sorcerer that keeps griefing you, or inappropriately uses extricate, don't team with them........ all your problems are then solved

[Gerrard_Ennui]

Dude...really? You certainly seem to be the most narrow minded and ungrateful player I've ever seen in my entire MMO history... I'm outta here..I gotta pull some people around after inviting them to my group...

You know what, i have clearly and concisely laid out my arguments without resorting to insulting or berating anyone. If that's all you have, then good riddance dude ... really.

 

loosely veiled huttball complaint?

I don't PvP.

 

I grief a couple of friends once in a while with Extricate, creating ever more inventive uses of Extricate for the sake of a grief... Yes it can be used to grief and may even be annoying...

Your honesty is appreciated.

 

On first page says it somewhere, if you have a Sorcerer that keeps griefing you, or inappropriately uses extricate, don't team with them........ all your problems are then solved

That's not the case. I dont have a stalker or anything, I'm just presenting my ideas on the topic. And once again, I'm not going to deprive myself of any grouping opportunities just because of a single ill-conceived Sorcerer ability. Edited February 2, 2012 by Gerrard_Ennui

[Noth]

You know what, i have clearly and concisely laid out my arguments without resorting to insulting or berating anyone. If that's all you have then, good riddance dude ... really.

 

Your entire argument is based on people being stupid with it. Go find better people to play with. I have never ever been griefed by this ability. Here's a hint, if they are using it for the threat drop they are using it wrong.

 

That's not the case. I dont have a stalker or anything, I'm just presenting my ideas on the topic. And once again, I'm not going to deprive myself of any grouping opportunities just because of a single ill-conceived Sorcerer ability.

 

It's not ill-conceived. It works wonderfully and has great utility and life saving capabilities.

[Gerrard_Ennui]

Your entire argument is based on people being stupid with it. Go find better people to play with. I have never ever been griefed by this ability. Here's a hint, if they are using it for the threat drop they are using it wrong.

And that just reiterates the initial point: Given the ability's obvious and tremendous potential for 'stupid' misuse, why invite it?

[HagenVonTronje]

You want an ability belonging to a class you don't play removed from the game because it's possible for a moron to screw up your channelled ability with it once every couple minutes? Well, that certainly sounds reasonable and not at all like a drastic overreaction to raging.

 

Extrication is an amazing ability. If you can't handle puggies doing stupid things, don't pug. If your guild griefs you with this, get a new guild. Simple as that.

[Noth]

And that just reiterates the initial point: Given the ability's obvious and tremendous potential for 'stupid' misuse, why invite it?

 

It's pretty much impossible to a design a good game without something that can be abuse. So again, get a new group to play with that do not grief you with it. You can't design a game to cater to everyone.

[E_c_c_e]

You know what, i have clearly and concisely laid out my arguments

 

Yes..sure...but so did I...and you just took one anecdote out of my post and dismissed all the others without really reading them properly.

 

Surely people can walk themselves but in a high skilled enivironment people actually try to use the game mechanics in a way that gives them advantages that might be considered trivial by other players. But if a DD can keep hitting a boss for more dmg because he doesn't have to walk as far to get to safety etc. I actively work against the Enrage Timer with my Extrication ability thus rendering it useful for hc / nightmare operations / flashpoints.

 

Or the example with Soa clearly indicates that you have never done this boss or were just lucky or blind to your surroundings since it happens rather often that someone gets cast into a mind prison or randomly thrown around by Soa during the switch from phase 2-3 thus rendering it impossible for said person to reach the edge of the platform in time and resulting in death if not pulled out.

 

Or the example at Gharj. If people can keep hitting him since I pull them away it's more dmg on the boss -> working against Enrage Timer.

 

And since you just dismissed my examples on the basis of not having to do with Aggro (which is actually the minor importance of this skill since there are enough ways to loose aggro for dmg dealers usually like the "vanish" abilities from Assassins, Operatives and Marauders and all the aggro reduces that are there anyway plus taunts from tanks) I will just go on listing some more useful examples for extrication:

 

- Extraboss in Kaon HC, sprint out and pull Melee towards you while he is using grapple so he can charge back in (if he has a charge)

 

- Screamers in Kaon HC, pull a team member into healing field after he's been knocked back by one

 

- Black Talon HC Yadira Ban, when she pulls members into her AoE channeled ability, Sprint out and pull the melee out, he charges back in, time saved

 

- Many Flashpoints that have knockback mobs, pull teammembers back into group or even back onto a platform if they were lucky enough not to fall all the way down

 

- If tank is hanging back at Kaon HC Rakghoul Monstrosity and boss goes into Frenzy (since he has to kite him while going backwards that can happen rather often), sprint to the next explosives, pull tank towards you, he taunts -> fight goes on without casualties

 

Some I haven't tried yet but might work as well:

 

- False Emperor HC, when HK goes into stealth and attacks a group member, pull member away -- might be that you can avoid the dmg from him like that. Of course you usually use AoE and dmg him in order to avoid it but more tools are always good

 

- Kaon HC , pull someone out of Mercenary Mob stun, might break it as well

 

- Kaon HC, Final Fight, Extricate teammember from Heavy Pin from the big guy...if it works you could get a teammember back up instead of having him CC'ed the whole duration of the skill

 

 

And those are just a few off the top of my head I'm sure there still are dozens more...

 

Of course you might always say this is not really needed. But that's the difference between casually doing stuff, being rather slow or even wiping on bosses and rushing through.

 

And besides...just because you don't PvP you can't just say "Skill xy is uselss / wrong although one of the major uses for it don't apply to me since I don't engage in the environment where skill xy shines even more than elsewhere"...

 

And again...if people use it at inappropriate times on you...don't party with them...or tell them to stop it...but it's not the skills fault that you seem to have so many haters that only use the skill to annoy you...

 

 

oh and another thing...you are upset about one single (!!!!!) cooldown ? What exactly were you casting ? Unless you are Annihilate Specced Marauder that lost his Annihilate Stacks I can't quite see the problem here. Sure a healer might get into trouble because a tank is low and you get interrupted but then again no good player would do that to you...

 

And your "argument" about people with extrication controlling other players...we can pull you every min on 30m range towards us as long as you're in our group...That's not really a lot of control imo...

 

but yeah...lets just ignore all the good uses and rage about the skill because you seem to be playing with griefing idiots...

[Kyhren]

oh and another thing...you are upset about one single (!!!!!) cooldown ? What exactly were you casting ?

 

Tracer missile, Tracer missile, Tracer missile, Tracer missile,Tracer missile, Tracer missile, Tracer missile, Tracer missile, Tracer missile, Tracer missile, etc...

[Natarii]

How to not get pulled in PvE: DONT STAND IN BAD and MOVE WHEN YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO.

 

Also, DON'T POST UP UNDER COVER RIGHT NEAR AN EDGE WHILE IN COMBAT WITH MOBS THAT KNOCKBACK.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Natarii

[Gerrard_Ennui]

You want an ability belonging to a class you don't play removed from the game because it's possible for a moron to screw up your channelled ability with it once every couple minutes?

Absolutely not. What I would like is perhaps another look at the implementation of the ability effect with careful consideration as to whether or not it has feasible utility in its current format.

 

...lets just ignore all the good uses and rage about the skill because you seem to be playing with griefing idiots...

I've played in every one of those scenarios and each was resolved without Extrication. A pull back just isnt necessary. In fact, you are not responsible for other players' movement, they are. I'd even suggest that the fact you think you should be responsible for moving other players around shows just how badly implemented Extrication is.

[Slie]

enemies in this game can move you. they can yank you to them. If they can why can't your friends? It's not a griefing tactic if you can chose to leave the group of someone using it poorly.

 

This ability needs no change. However your me first, mentality does.

[LordbishopX]

enemies in this game can move you. they can yank you to them. If they can why can't your friends? It's not a griefing tactic if you can chose to leave the group of someone using it poorly.

 

This ability needs no change. However your me first, mentality does.

 

QFT It's a great needed mechanic anyone can see that simply a non issue for almost every one but the OP. Play with a good team and its welcome as all get out play with bads well they bad but some people can't comprehend how helpful it is cause they blew a cd QQ..

Edited February 2, 2012 by LordbishopX