Sawbones Healing - what a joke...

[TrikkiOne]

Why would you even bother when Commando and Sage are just so much better? I've played all 3 to level 40+ (Sage and Scoundrel to 50) and survivability and healing prowess is better in every way on both classes. Oh yeah, damage is better too.

 

Oh we have stealth, that's right...

 

So in return we'll make Sawbones inferior in just about every other way possible and then on top of that, we'll make it the most annoying to play too, keeping Pugnacity up all the time and trying to monitor 2 stupidly weak HoT spells. We'll give them spells that tick for so little and so seldom that you have to try 10x harder to keep someone up than you do with Commando or Sage.

 

Then on top of that, we'll make them the weakest class for damage mitigation just so they'll all quit in utter frustration.

 

If that doesn't do it, we'll make it so our vanish escape is useless too, healing doesn't work and we get knocked out of it in PVP almots 100% of the time. Then we'll add a 2 point talent to give a 3 second 20% speed to dodge that doesn't even work or is so slow you can't even tell its working.

 

Thank god Diagnostic Scan is so useful....oh nm...

 

What a complete waste of time levelling this char up was.

Edited February 1, 2012 by TrikkiOne

[Aerius]

While you do have a point, I think Sawbones have a bit more utility. We have more long duration cc's.

 

No complaints with dodge though. Works well and especially with vanish. If you use dodge then vanish, you will almost always escape in PvP. Or throw a flash bomb, purge then vanish.

[dadeeyoh]

I dont see the problem I heal EV and my slow release medpac heals for 700normal/1300crit per tic. My Kolto cloud hits for 500normal/800crit and my diagnostic scan crits for 330ish times 3. When they fix our talent that increases periodic healing those numbers will go up.

[viettrinh]

What's your rotation and how are you specced?

 

That might be influencing your performance as a healer. I've found that Sawbones is more nuanced than most healing classes, but, if well-planned and executed, is just as viable.

[TrikkiOne]

Must admit, much of my frustration comes from the PVP aspect, lack of survivability, broken skills etc.

 

Sorry, looking back this sounded really whiny but the frustration just built up so much yesterday with Empire vs Republic imbalance in PVP with them being so overgeared compared to us due to massive numbers in Ilum and we have no way of doing our dailies/weeklies there.

 

I do stand by my comments though I would normally put them in a less whiny tone. Sage and Commando are streets ahead of Sawbones Scoundrels. Utility isn't a good enough reason to make their healing inferior because everyone knows in MMO's that min/max'ing is rampant. It'll only get worse when the combat log comes in and god forbid some addon like GearScore gets implemented (WoW addon).

 

In regards to Disappearing Act, I don't think you should have to pop 1 cooldown to make another work.

 

I just don't see a skill like Pugnacity being any fun whatsoever, for us to function properly it needs to be up, why not just give us natural Pugnacity, or even put a talent high in the Sawbones spec for it.

 

I also don't get why Scrapper gets healing for 10s after Disappearing Act and the HEALER doesn't. So much defies logic.

 

Our abilities cost too much energy for how little they do. We do the least damage of the 3 healers in our healing spec so we can't use that to save ourselves.

 

In terms of rotations, I pretty much just pop 2 stack HoT on tank, UM, Pugnacity, UM, Emergency when spare Upper Hands are available.

 

You say that if I'm "well-planned" then I will be good, but in PVP, there is no planning really, just reactions.

 

It'd be so much easier if there was no Pugnacity and probably a lot less frustrating. I'd also like to be able to see my energy in a way that doesn't take my attention off the game itself. In PVP I often look down and realise I'm completely out of energy.

 

In PVP Emergency Med Pack is barely acceptable when it crits, but if it doesn't the heal is a joke and doesn't even come close to stopping damage from even a single player if you don't get a string of crits. Why not make it like WoW Swiftmend which heals for a lot more, but on a short cooldown? Then you also wouldn't have to mess about with Upper Hand so much.

 

The class is just so damn fiddly. You may say "well, you need more skill" but there aren't even enough hotbar buttons to fit all the skills/abilities and medpacks/stims that I need for PVP. Get rid of Pugnacity and free one more up, PLEASE!

 

The Dodge speed boost from our talent should be the same as Consular speed imo and it really isn't even close. I can barely see any speed increase and often wonder if there is any at all.

Edited February 2, 2012 by TrikkiOne

[TrikkiOne]

A good example was today I was in Huttball Warzone with an equally geared Commando mate of mine, he had 2 melee on him (Sent and a Shadow). He was able to stand there and heal himself through their damage with 1 HoT from me ticking on him. The same 2 attacked me a couple of minutes later...

 

The Commando was SPAM healing me and I was spam healing myself with full HoTs up and I went down so quickly. I just don't get it.

 

I've seen the same commando stand in a mass of 3-5 melee and just power heal through it while our team took the enemies down, I can never do that.

[TrikkiOne]

Just to put my healing experiences into context, I was a WoW 2500+ Arena rating Resto Druid so I have a fair bit of experience in high end PVP healing, particularly with the HoT based healing which really drew me in when I read about Sawbones.

 

I dont see the problem I heal EV and my slow release medpac heals for 700normal/1300crit per tic. My Kolto cloud hits for 500normal/800crit and my diagnostic scan crits for 330ish times 3. When they fix our talent that increases periodic healing those numbers will go up.

 

Putting Diagnostic Scan into a PVP scenario, 990 healing (assuming 100% crits which aint happening) over 3 seconds is a joke when Shadows/Assassins backstab me for 2-4000 twice in 1.5s.

 

I'd rather manage my energy better than use Diagnostic Scan to regain it. I think if you ran a simulator you'd be better off waiting for 2s (and DPSIng even) and regaining the energy to use a UM than using Diagnostic Scan and locking yourself into position and unable to move.

 

Perhaps on a tank and spank PVE boss that's possible, but in most high end MMO content and all PVP standing around channeling that spell is a death sentence.

Edited February 2, 2012 by TrikkiOne

[Valthusar]

...I've found that Sawbones is more nuanced than most healing classes, but, if well-planned and executed, is just as viable.

 

While very true, this is core to the problem. We're doing twice the work just to keep up, and we don't have any "Oh ****" buttons to really save someone. In a PvE setting, you aren't keeping someone up using EM. In a PvP setting of more than a 1v1, you aren't keeping someone up with EM.

 

It just feels exhausting to heal an op and then realize you're fighting to keep your regen going while only using three spells, four if you have the 2 piece bonus.

[Zenirvana]

When I read what this class had going for I signed up. Once again I am playing a stealth class that is horribly imbalanced. I wanted to be a smuggler healer and I am tired of being unable to compete with sage and commando healers. I was even told to reroll a sage.

 

Sorry but I am not paying to play a game I want to pvp in using a class where I can blatantly see my class's skills lacking. I was a loyal paying SWG customer for 6 years straight. I kept holding on to a faith things would get better. I am not going to waste my life waiting for things to get better ever again.

 

I am not saying the class is horribly broken and I am not asking for much improvement but it does suck to see where my class is underperforming.

 

resource management sucks

stealth is useless for sawbones

dodge is a huge let down

the nerf back in beta that made slow release medpack require a 2 stack was just stupid and done by someone obviously ignorant

[Takilemonaki]

They need to increase the healing on E-medpack by a tad.Also need to buff freakin kolto cloud weakest aoe healing ability in the game when you take into consideration how much energy it costs.Roughly 1/3rd of our bar to cast a heal that heals for about 2k (counting 2 piece pvp bonus) over 15 seconds,factor in the 30% trauma debuff and bam 1.3k healing over 15 seconds and costs nearly 1/3rd of our energy bar limited to 4 targets.Know the sage final talent 2 sec cast 2k initial heal and a HoT afterwards heals everybody and costs 100 force which is 1/6th of the sages resource. Edited February 2, 2012 by Takilemonaki

[montanabrand]

i have a 41 sage healer and 48 scoundrel/scrapper....i tried sawbones. but tbh it's not comparison. My guild loves my sage with bubble and ultra heals. Such a simple class to play and be effective. valor 39 on scoundrel and i wanted to turn healer to help guild but whats the point. I played daoc for years and i'm a pretty good player (good player imo) and I can c atm to lvl my sage for heals.

 

edit....i'm speaking pve wise. pvp scoundrel/sawbones still have so much ceiling with stealth/hots. But that involves vent/guild that knows u.

Edited February 2, 2012 by montanabrand

[Vorna]

I commiserate with your whining, trust me, I go through times I just want to murder the BW devs that (poorly) designed this class. But I do have to note some things on something you said.

 

A good example was today I was in Huttball Warzone with an equally geared Commando mate of mine, he had 2 melee on him (Sent and a Shadow). He was able to stand there and heal himself through their damage with 1 HoT from me ticking on him. The same 2 attacked me a couple of minutes later...

 

The Commando was SPAM healing me and I was spam healing myself with full HoTs up and I went down so quickly. I just don't get it.

 

I've seen the same commando stand in a mass of 3-5 melee and just power heal through it while our team took the enemies down, I can never do that.

 

Never ever stay still. Ever. You will die. I'm wearing BM/Rakata in pvp, and 2 good dps can still tear me up. One good dps with decent gear, and I'm pretty finished as well.

 

But... not all is lost. Granted a Sage could blow us out of the water here, but we have some tools to help us, along with LOSing anything that's trying to attack you as much as possible.

 

Though I don't feel we have enough mobility, our mobility is what will save us in these situations. And our greatest tool? Triage.

 

Triage. Triage. Triage. Triage.

 

Cast it every time it's on cooldown. Every time. I kind of like to think of it as the opposite of the death by a thousand cuts, it's life by a thousand heals.

 

Keep a double stack of HOTs on yourself. Use EM every time you get an UH proc. If they root you, blaster whip someone nearby, use the UH on an EM.

 

Keep moving, don't stop. Run around things, everything. Take a jet in Huttball just to give yourself a chance to lose them for a moment. Force them to go on a goosechase.

 

When you desperately need it, and the snares from force users are overwhelming you, pop dodge to try to give yourself a few feet more.

 

If you gain enough ground, turn a corner out of LOS, quickly cast UM, and start moving again.

 

...

 

We can't stand still and power heal because the only heal we can cast without UH is UM, and one interrupt and we're done. It's a major flaw in our design, and I honestly feel like the devs are complete idiots for letting it go live the way it currently is, especially considering the uselessness of KP.

 

...

 

On a final note, I'm probably one of the tankiest scoundrels there is, it's pretty much the norm for me to take 200k+ damage in a wz (I average 3-6 deaths), and I do it by forcing my attackers to work for their kill. I've held off a cap on alderaan for minutes against multiple people. I've ran the huttball to the goal more than a scoundrel ever should. It's possible to do these things, but you have to be quick on your feet, and save your abilities for when they are most needed (also, I advise being biochem, the medpac is also pretty key to my survival).

Edited February 2, 2012 by Vorna

[Ugugg]

something needs to be done to tow the line between the top healer atm and the other classes.

 

I'm not saying we can't heal hm or in pvp, the skill cap is higher and from what i've seen it is doable. But the argument for our lower numbers is because we are mobile or have utility? I don't understand this at all.

 

Moving and casting EMP on someone at 30% might be useful for a few seconds. Moving and casting a hot is not mobility or utility imo. You will run into energy problems very soon.

 

And lastly the argument that we'll never run out of energy and can heal long fights .... I don't think this is an issue for any class is it? In fact if we have to burst heal we can be energy deficient after 3-4 heals.

 

But we have stealth! Who can heal whilst actually stealth'ed? It doesn't help in pve and in pvp I might survive a little longer, but it doesn't really help my team mates who need healing.

 

I would prefer a buff to our healing over a nerf to other classes. But i don't really agree about us being mobile and having utility and therefore our heals should be for less argument.

 

Agree that all classes can do content.

Disagree with at the ease other classes heal same content.

Definitely disagree (and sad face) with groups starting to look for "sage heals" instead of just "heals".

[Calihad]

I am a 650 expertise plus scoundrel, just started healing with the nerfs (we have better heal harassment in guild then I am capable of now, so scrapper is a no go at this point). We definately are not on par with other healer's, mobility does not save a team nor does our extra cc because you shouldn't be in the thick of it anyways. I would easily settle for beefed up hots that had cast timer's and give up the mobility in a heartbeat.

 

Regarding survivability however, If I have some healing help...unless 5-6 (even more some times) player's are on me, I will not go down, ever. 2-3 I can solo with cc/juke casting. Again though, this doesn't help the team much, we are the worst team class in game, in every tree...including heals and even heal harassment now.