Can conccealment ops 1v1 anybody now?

[deverin]

Remember to dispell yourself, we can dispel tech debuffs. Obstacles are your friend against ranged. Edited February 1, 2012 by deverin

[martillos]

Im doin just fine even after patch.To the new guys who are listening to the qq and crying about 1vs1 operatives,dont listen to this crap i still kill **** quick and i still fell op a little.

 

People just love to complain thats all.the class is still very fun imo.

[Skuishe]

Im doin just fine even after patch.To the new guys who are listening to the qq and crying about 1vs1 operatives,dont listen to this crap i still kill **** quick and i still fell op a little.

 

People just love to complain thats all.the class is still very fun imo.

 

Well done. You take enjoyment out of stomping lesser geared, or lesser skilled players. I'm honestly glad you can have fun with the class, I realize it may sound sarcastic but I'm genuinely envious.

 

I however primarily care that I am able to compete with similarly champion/battlemaster geared players that I know are fully aware of what my class can do, as well as their own. And this capability is what was largely nerfed by the burst. We relied on getting people down to more critical levels quickly, because our energy maintenance dps wasn't going to kill anybody , so we had to drain it all and hope it dug them into a large enough hole that we could recover, then finish it off. This was especially true against healers, where we typically couldn't kill them in the first burst, but had to pressure them low, the finish them off in the secound round of cc.

 

Now without this burst, we have a LOT of difficulty killing anyone who doesn't die in our first stunlock, and most good players don't, because we literally have to blow EVERYTHING to maximize that first stunlock. The primary objective of an operative was always to kill a single target quickly. Now this is gone against competent, well geared targets.

 

To those of you always saying "learn! adapt!", I've said it before, I'll say it again. We were purely nerfed. Nothing has changed except our damage has gone down. If there was a better way of playing operative, we would have learned about it pre nerf. All that has happened is that we now no longer have a big burst to create initial pressure with. What we are left with is our mediocre, long term energy maintenance dps, with some new stunlock capability on long cooldowns.

 

I've known how to maintain energy while dpsing for a long time. It's called pve. I've known how to try to kite and outlast opponents for a long time. It's not about learning. It's about knowing that now we are reduced to very suboptimal style of play on our characters, except now those are the required way to play.

[TehPenGu]

You can solo ppl easy! If they start at 50% hp, or if they suck hard, its NO problem at all.

 

l2p and so on xD

[Baalzamon]

People should stop crying and learn to fotm reroll.

[darkdrift]

All these people who are saying that Operatives are fine is full of ****!

 

I demand you post proof you have a level 50 Operative or your opinion is worthless!

[triangulate]

I have read through this entire thread, so ill add my tuppence worth.

 

In a PUG environment Op's can still thrive, there are plenty of people splitting up and wandering around solo... these are easy kills.

Most often than not you will be facing a team with no healers, so you can fill your boots and murder to your hearts content.

You will also find that in most PUG games (if you PvP with any regularity) you will outgear most people... so again its all gravy.

 

Now for the flip side.

Ops as they currently stand have no place in a competetive WZ where it is premade vs premade. We bring nothing to the table, every other class has combination that can DPS better than us from range or melee.

We had burst, we still do vs less skilled / undergeared / or players not being healed.

But in a competative game our (nerfed) burst is easily outhealed.

We are easily killed by an organised team that is looking out for each other.

 

To put things in perspective, i was in 3 PUG WZ's today and topped kills and damage done in all three.

I entered two premade WZ's with my guild and came in the bottom 4 for damage done and kills. Two weeks ago i was able to burst down the healers of a premade while their DPS was preoccupied with our DPS and healers, this won us the game on many occasions.

Now i cant even get a single healer to below 40% before help arrives.

I can't dent a tank.

And all other melee DPS has more susstained DPS than i have so the odds are heavily in their favour

 

The underlined part above is EQUALY geared players, NOT some guy in a PUG match that PvP's once in a blue moon or has sub par gear and no healing /CC support.

 

Even a TURD can shine in a PUG match.

[Skuishe]

I have read through this entire thread, so ill add my tuppence worth.

 

In a PUG environment Op's can still thrive, there are plenty of people splitting up and wandering around solo... these are easy kills.

Most often than not you will be facing a team with no healers, so you can fill your boots and murder to your hearts content.

You will also find that in most PUG games (if you PvP with any regularity) you will outgear most people... so again its all gravy.

 

Now for the flip side.

Ops as they currently stand have no place in a competetive WZ where it is premade vs premade. We bring nothing to the table, every other class has combination that can DPS better than us from range or melee.

We had burst, we still do vs less skilled / undergeared / or players not being healed.

But in a competative game our (nerfed) burst is easily outhealed.

We are easily killed by an organised team that is looking out for each other.

 

To put things in perspective, i was in 3 PUG WZ's today and topped kills and damage done in all three.

I entered two premade WZ's with my guild and came in the bottom 4 for damage done and kills. Two weeks ago i was able to burst down the healers of a premade while their DPS was preoccupied with our DPS and healers, this won us the game on many occasions.

Now i cant even get a single healer to below 40% before help arrives.

I can't dent a tank.

And all other melee DPS has more susstained DPS than i have so the odds are heavily in their favour

 

The underlined part above is EQUALY geared players, NOT some guy in a PUG match that PvP's once in a blue moon or has sub par gear and no healing /CC support.

 

Even a TURD can shine in a PUG match.

 

<3 Same message I'm trying to get across.

[triangulate]

<3 Same message I'm trying to get across.

 

I realise, like most people that we needed to be tinkered with on the burst front... but tinkering is usualy done wearing velvet gloves not fingerless gloves and a sledgehammer.

 

 

In premade games:

My role in Hutball was to take down the ball runner, it was the perfect niche for an Op.

Watch any premade now and the first (competent) team to pick up the ball scores.

A PT or Jug with a little healing support are 99% unstoppable with the ball now.

 

In Alderaan my role was to ninja Turrets or to help defend with one other guy who is vissable. Since the patch all i can do now is ninja turrets, our Ops leader assigns the "real" DPS and healers to defend now and leaves me to harrass and try to ninja.

 

In voidstar my sole objective was to kill healers.

 

As i said before, this was in a premade setting. Now i still get invited, but its only because we are all friends and have a laugh, if my guild didnt know me as well as they do then im sure i wouldnt get invites for competetive games, and i couldn't blame them tbh.

[SneakyErvin]

So much QQ, so little math to back up any of it.

 

People read 30% nerf on this and 20% nerf on that and get it to a 50% nerf, when its not even close to that because thats not how you add it up.

 

Someone in another thread had it nicely printed down for easy reading. All in all it came down to one extra gcd having to be used in order to kill someone, which seems to be pretty spot on how it works in game.

 

OPs still hit hard as hell, but their armor reduction is now inline with every other class out there. Actually its 5% higher than most classes and comes in one big chunk instead of a slow build up to its peak. It used to be 200% as effective as other similar effects.

 

The biggest thing to get used to is the 1.5 sec knockdown duration, it takes a bit getting used to, but the damage is just fine and nothing to cry about.

 

But go reroll if you like, then reroll when that FOTM class is nerfed and then again after that and so on.

[sokarx]

I have read through this entire thread, so ill add my tuppence worth.

 

In a PUG environment Op's can still thrive, there are plenty of people splitting up and wandering around solo... these are easy kills.

Most often than not you will be facing a team with no healers, so you can fill your boots and murder to your hearts content.

You will also find that in most PUG games (if you PvP with any regularity) you will outgear most people... so again its all gravy.

 

Now for the flip side.

Ops as they currently stand have no place in a competetive WZ where it is premade vs premade. We bring nothing to the table, every other class has combination that can DPS better than us from range or melee.

We had burst, we still do vs less skilled / undergeared / or players not being healed.

But in a competative game our (nerfed) burst is easily outhealed.

We are easily killed by an organised team that is looking out for each other.

 

To put things in perspective, i was in 3 PUG WZ's today and topped kills and damage done in all three.

I entered two premade WZ's with my guild and came in the bottom 4 for damage done and kills. Two weeks ago i was able to burst down the healers of a premade while their DPS was preoccupied with our DPS and healers, this won us the game on many occasions.

Now i cant even get a single healer to below 40% before help arrives.

I can't dent a tank.

And all other melee DPS has more susstained DPS than i have so the odds are heavily in their favour

 

The underlined part above is EQUALY geared players, NOT some guy in a PUG match that PvP's once in a blue moon or has sub par gear and no healing /CC support.

 

Even a TURD can shine in a PUG match.

 

This is the only thing anyone needs to post in this thread. Anyone saying anything otherwise doesn't play an operative or has a sorc alt.

[Migrayn]

in the 1-49 bracket I used to be able to get a crit HS and get my 2.5k damage medal. Just about every class is able to get that.

 

Now I have not crit above 2k. That is kind of disheartning. A burst class should be at least able to get the medal for friggen burst.

[deverin]

Thank you BW for ruining this class, now fix it!

[Mende]

unsubbed i hope the message gets across.

[TehPenGu]

The current game is this:

 

Tanks are where they should be, Warrior is a tough though with the poorest of AOE controll: PT is a midway, with a bit of both, Sassin is the god of AOE and aggro, yett the easier kill of the 3.

 

For dps you need sorcs and BH's.

 

For heal you need sorcs and BH's.

 

Cut the rest.

[Bizwolf]

All these people who are saying that Operatives are fine is full of ****!

 

I demand you post proof you have a level 50 Operative or your opinion is worthless!

 

They are fine. Barely a difference at all. I can't even tell a difference in the stun to be honest. Damage a little bit but at the numbers we hit, it's nothing.

 

Get Full champ/BM, throw in say gloves and boots Columi/Rakata for the 15% back stab because who needs 5 extra energy.

 

Instead of using AB+HS, BS, shiv, Lac, etc. Put AB before your HS which is a given of course. But 95% of all people I see in videos never put it before their next backstab and you're losing dps. No idea why people don't. It can't be an energy issue because we have things to solve that.

[CorruptedFlesh]

 

Instead of using AB+HS, BS, shiv, Lac, etc. Put AB before your HS which is a given of course. But 95% of all people I see in videos never put it before their next backstab and you're losing dps. No idea why people don't. It can't be an energy issue because we have things to solve that.

I'm doing that, and I already wrote: AB+HS - AB+BS on sage = abosrbed -> absorbed +400 damage. Or 2.6k HS on sniper, and 1.5k BS.

 

With only one pvp item I have absolutely nothing to do in WZs... hm, not entirely true, coz at least I still can get 6-7 medals.

[DaniWes]

To have any chance against mercs you have to interrupt tracer missile.

 

Smart mercs will be sure to dot you as well to take away cloaking screen.

 

Problem however is they have two knockbacks and several other abilities to use when tracer is on cooldown after an interrupt.

[Xavory]

Ops have the same problem we had prior to the nerf: We still can easily outclass undergeared/lesser skilled opponents, and we are still outshined by our true peers, I.E. those with equal gear and skill levels.

 

All accounts of damage is anecdotal since we have no combat logs or damage meters, or test targets. Yesterday I (Rank 62 Operative) killed a Jedi Shadow in 3 GCDs. He was a brand new 50. I also have opened on Battlemasters and didnt really even scratch them. Gear,Guard,CDs and lucky crits all play into the effectiveness of a class that is based around opening burst. The bottom line is the nerf was too much, everyone but the PvP designer knows this ( although I'm pretty sure he knows it too, this nerf was most likely political to appease the lowbies). My guess is when (if?) they put in combat logs we will see an Ops/Scoundrel adjustment around the same time, since they know the real numbers will come to light.

 

The Acid Blade nerf was over the top. Bioware knows it, but as long as our class represents a smaller portion of their bottom line than everyone else, we will be sub par compared to our TRUE peers.

[deverin]

Ops have the same problem we had prior to the nerf: We still can easily outclass undergeared/lesser skilled opponents, and we are still outshined by our true peers, I.E. those with equal gear and skill levels.

 

All accounts of damage is anecdotal since we have no combat logs or damage meters, or test targets. Yesterday I (Rank 62 Operative) killed a Jedi Shadow in 3 GCDs. He was a brand new 50. I also have opened on Battlemasters and didnt really even scratch them. Gear,Guard,CDs and lucky crits all play into the effectiveness of a class that is based around opening burst. The bottom line is the nerf was too much, everyone but the PvP designer knows this ( although I'm pretty sure he knows it too, this nerf was most likely political to appease the lowbies). My guess is when (if?) they put in combat logs we will see an Ops/Scoundrel adjustment around the same time, since they know the real numbers will come to light.

 

The Acid Blade nerf was over the top. Bioware knows it, but as long as our class represents a smaller portion of their bottom line than everyone else, we will be sub par compared to our TRUE peers.

 

and by TRUE peers he means Inquisitors...

[Xavory]

and by TRUE peers he means Inquisitors...

 

I think the best thing all ops/scoundrels can do to get Biowares attention besides unsub is reroll Sorcs/Sages. We've all been in Warzones where 90% of the classes were inq/consulars, when that number hits 99% maybe someone above Gabe's paygrade will notice.

[deverin]

I think that's wha they want....

 

Hey at least you get to shoot cool lighting...

 

bubble

 

Heal

 

Sprint

 

Force Pull

 

Knock Back

 

3 stuns

 

Wait why aren't we all Inquisitors? 6 out of 8 usually are in WZs....

[Deannie]

I think that's wha they want....

 

Hey at least you get to shoot cool lighting...

 

bubble

 

Heal

 

Sprint

 

Force Pull

 

Knock Back

 

3 stuns

 

Wait why aren't we all Inquisitors? 6 out of 8 usually are in WZs....

 

 

This is what Bioware calls balancing the game. If everone rolls inq/ consular then their won't be any issues. In this case Bioware is doing a great job by taking other classes out of the game they make the game balance if everyone just played one.

[Nektulos]

Heavy armor gives me trouble, so do healers, others are the same.

 

I feel like I got a 50% nerf vs heavy armor & battlemaster healers & 10% vs everyone else...

 

**** is kind of weird.

 

 

 

On a side note, I found a screenshot of me hitting someone for 10092 before all the nerfs, made me a little sad lol.

 

Anyways, not much to do after u get all ur BM gear & hit v65, I am slowly working towards getting a full BM medic suit now & enjoying other class stories!

[zaknaphein]

I'm doing that, and I already wrote: AB+HS - AB+BS on sage = abosrbed -> absorbed +400 damage. Or 2.6k HS on sniper, and 1.5k BS.

 

With only one pvp item I have absolutely nothing to do in WZs... hm, not entirely true, coz at least I still can get 6-7 medals.

 

You should try something like this for rotation: AB +HS-Shiv-Laceration -( debilitate if active and you want to use it,otherwise severe tendon) - AB/bs etc This way you give time for AB ticks to deal some dmg and if these crits the dmg output is considerable. In addition you apply a 2nd round of AB dot in the end again. If the target is stunned by debilitate his life goes down pretty fast.