Smash is Broken, this is why.

[vortexdr]

Seriously, it's going to get nerfed before it gets buffed. It does a ridiculous amount of damage. If there were no ways to prevent getting hit from it, the damage will get nerfed. There's QQ in the general about this already. Let's just all enjoy it while it lasts

 

 

I dont buy it. Snipers have a hell of a lot more burst at range...Rage a one trick pony. Besides didnt BW say at one stage they happy with jugg burst. And that was before they nerfed consumables if anything our burst worse since then.

[Ravaran]

Seriously, it's going to get nerfed before it gets buffed. It does a ridiculous amount of damage. If there were no ways to prevent getting hit from it, the damage will get nerfed. There's QQ in the general about this already. Let's just all enjoy it while it lasts

 

Smash is perhaps the easiest ability to interupt of any "instant" cast ability, forcing it to go on cooldown without the ability actually being cast. You shouldnt expect any dps class to be able to freely use his abilities on you and take no damage.

[Mcleavestein]

Seriously, it's going to get nerfed before it gets buffed. It does a ridiculous amount of damage. If there were no ways to prevent getting hit from it, the damage will get nerfed. There's QQ in the general about this already. Let's just all enjoy it while it lasts

 

I'm not asking for them to Buff the ability. I just want it to work correctly. And I don't feel like it's over powered, considering it takes the perfect execution of 2 other abilities before it will work. With all the knockbacks, it's pretty easy to get out of the damage altogether.

[Naverretsam]

I'm not asking for them to Buff the ability. I just want it to work correctly. And I don't feel like it's over powered, considering it takes the perfect execution of 2 other abilities before it will work. With all the knockbacks, it's pretty easy to get out of the damage altogether.

 

I know you don't think it's overpowered, but I do. It's my opinion that if it were to 'work correctly' like you suggest then they will have to nerf the damage. The damage is excruciatingly high, i've hit other juggs for 5k crits with adrenal up. I would rather it have a difficult execution and more damage, then be easier to use, as it would make it necessary to reduce the damage.

[Noth]

I know you don't think it's overpowered, but I do. It's my opinion that if it were to 'work correctly' like you suggest then they will have to nerf the damage. The damage is excruciatingly high, i've hit other juggs for 5k crits with adrenal up. I would rather it have a difficult execution and more damage, then be easier to use, as it would make it necessary to reduce the damage.

 

Other classes can hit that hard too... from range.

[Mcleavestein]

I know you don't think it's overpowered, but I do. It's my opinion that if it were to 'work correctly' like you suggest then they will have to nerf the damage. The damage is excruciatingly high, i've hit other juggs for 5k crits with adrenal up. I would rather it have a difficult execution and more damage, then be easier to use, as it would make it necessary to reduce the damage.

 

This seems pretty speculative. I doubt it is working as they intended it, and I doubt even more that they increased the damage because they knew that the damage placement was glitched. I would honestly rather the ability work correctly and it be less powerful, if that was the trade off. Though I think that would be unnecessary. I have had many "Keyboard Smash" moments chasing a ball carrier in hutt ball, building up my smash, getting right behind them, then missing them because they run out of the area, even though I never left melee range.

[GengisKahn]

2 things-

 

 

SWTOR uses animation based triggers- the ability goes off at the apropriate frame in the animation, its exactly like you said- the smash happens when you hit the ground, not when you hit the button. You'll probably notice the same thing with your lightsaber strikes if you stop to look- the damage is applied on the frame where the saber strikes the victim.

 

 

Way to not read the OP post before replying.

 

He is actually saying that the damage is not being done when the animation hits.

[LeEntropy]

you can just slow the target before casting a smash... problem solved.

 

Just because we can work our way around a bug doesn't mean it should stay. It is a bug after all since the warrior is supposedly dealing the damage when he lands.

[Furyofwar]

The entire rage spec is based on knowing how to use smash correctly. I rarely miss a smash. hell even if they vanish I still land majority of my smashes. You just need to know when the correct time to press it is. If your mashing your smash button your not playing the class right. You don't use 2 ability's to set it up an not plan ahead. So ya, It can be countered. Be glad it can. OR it would be nerfed by now. So make sure if you use it. You do so correctly.

[Gotho]

Curious do guardians suffer from the same problem?

 

100% yes.

[Mcleavestein]

The entire rage spec is based on knowing how to use smash correctly. I rarely miss a smash. hell even if they vanish I still land majority of my smashes. You just need to know when the correct time to press it is. If your mashing your smash button your not playing the class right. You don't use 2 ability's to set it up an not plan ahead. So ya, It can be countered. Be glad it can. OR it would be nerfed by now. So make sure if you use it. You do so correctly.

 

Again, flawed reasoning. I am not always in the position to run in front of them, so that the lagging area of effect is on top of them when the skill goes off. I do just fine, in PvP. top 3 dmg anytime I try, and I don't have great gear. The point I am making is, It is not working properly. If a ball runner is running from me and they are sprinting, or their resolve bar is full, or whatever reason you can find that they might be moving too fast for the area to catch them, if I hit the button and finish the animation in melee range IT SHOULD DO DAMAGE, period.

[notladnai]

Simple solution:

Make Smash hit your selected target in melee range as well as 3 additional surrounding enemys. Problem solved.

[Mcleavestein]

Simple solution:

Make Smash hit your selected target in melee range as well as 3 additional surrounding enemys. Problem solved.

 

Not a bad fix.

[Skyline]

Simple solution:

Make Smash hit your selected target in melee range as well as 3 additional surrounding enemys. Problem solved.

 

This would ABSOLUTELY break the last bit of AoE threat Jugs have in PvE at the moment, and I was hoping we wouldn't go the route of that other game here in terms of this balance problem.

 

As for the reason, many(read 99%) mobs individually are too far from each other to get hit by "your" version of Smash, but they can all be hit with the current Smash by positioning yourself the right way.

 

 

 

The problem isn't that Smash hits where you click it (as few people that apparently have been ignored have said) it's because of wacky communication Server-Player wise.

 

It also seems to happen almost always in WZs/PvP only. In PvE anyone who tanked knows it works perfectly fine actually, example, anyone who tanks know how mobs like to play ping-pong with the Juggernaut when you hit smash and you get knocked back into say another mob you will hit that other mob no problem, but (unless they were very close anyway) you won't hit the original one.

 

Not sure if one can find a PvP scenario like that to test it since PvP usually has fever targets just standing there and chillin while some people try to whack em. But atleast 1 person here mentioned that in WZs it didn't act like this (my PvE example) for him.

 

No I do not have another probably not-so-smart solution, cause frankly no one of us KNOWS what the problem really is, we have a few guesses yes, but without looking into the code and or the actual server communication we simply don't know why it borks up on us like that.

[Darth__Carnal]

I am shocked that none of you have mentioned this...

 

I am level 50 Rage Jugg and something I have been noticing during PvP is the fact that, Dominate is Broken !

 

Dominate : Grants a 100% Critical Hit to Smash, after Force Charge or Obliterate

 

Like the rest of you, I spend all this time getting ready to land a smash and if I am lucky the hit connects and doesn't miss due to server lag, then I have to cross my fingers that the damage is not laughable. It seems like the critical roll is not 100% like it states in the description.

 

I have hit the same unbuffed person multiple times in a WZ with Dominate/Smash and have done varying amounts of damage. Sometimes I hit for 3.5k average, and then other times I hit for 1.5k.

 

Which begs the question, if Criticals are suppose to be 100% upon using Dominate, then why is the damage varying so much ?

 

My highest is 4.5k and my lowest was 1k.

 

It seems very, very, difficult to replicate 4.5k.

 

For the record, I am stacked high Critical / Surge. Upon charging up to use Smash, I use a expertise adrenal 15%, a critical / surge relic, and I Force Charge to the victim.

 

When not using Dominate and running around doing PvP, my numbers are 33% chance for Critical and 91% Surge increase.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Darth__Carnal

[notladnai]

This would ABSOLUTELY break the last bit of AoE threat Jugs have in PvE at the moment, and I was hoping we wouldn't go the route of that other game here in terms of this balance problem.

 

As for the reason, many(read 99%) mobs individually are too far from each other to get hit by "your" version of Smash, but they can all be hit with the current Smash by positioning yourself the right way.

You are misconstruding the suggestion.

 

By making Smash hit your target and the closest mobs next to you (not the closest to your target, but closest to you), it would function exactly the same way as now except it would always land on your target in addition to your surroundings.

 

Current system = No target check, hits enemies in AE at time of casting.

 

New system = 5 meter target check + hits target + hits enemies in AE at time of casting.

Edited February 7, 2012 by notladnai

[Stepkick]

<<Wall of Text Warning!!!>>

 

I know exactly what you are saying about Smash not being able to process even if the target is in your face and then moves out of it. It is the same problem Shadows/Assassins face from Backstab/Maul when the target moves away from melee. This problem usually causes the hesitation appearance in the animation like he is about to Backstab/Maul or Smash but stops animation midway cause the range criteria is no longer met.

 

This affects the problem even more because most of the damage in this games comes at the end of an animation, and not being able to complete the animation means the damage possible has been averted, unjustly.

 

For example, let us assume I play an Assassin and I get on my target which is a Jedi Sage (Sorceror equivalent) for about one second during which I press Maul, the Sage in the mean time moves out of my melee range after that second passes and after I press Maul. The game registers the beginning of Maul being valid due to range but as soon as he gets out of range it stops the animation and the damage doesn't occur.

 

This kinda makes the instant ability feel like Ravage/Master Strike where it is rather a channeled ability that will be interrupted if ranged in between the animation. Why is this unjust because it is supposed to be an instant, and in PvP losing an instant is losing a GCD and in an encounter it is quite possible to fall behind on activity rate due to an accumaltion of lost GCDs, and we all know that poor activity rate can mean a poor performance.

 

I know it isn't right to compare the game to WoW but please hear me out. I played WoW and was good at it, in my prime I was a multi-glad rogue and enjoyed the game alot. I didn't quit WoW cause of the hype that it is broken or losing its earlier essence. I quit WoW cause SWTOR is a lot better and more promising and has a richer storyline. But I never had a problem with the backstab while playing rogue because:

 

1. The damage occured when the button was pressed.

2. The animation completed itself regardless of player position.

3. Animation was purely for visuals only and had no tie into the damage dealt.

4. Animations weren't elaborate.

 

SWTOR on the other hand has longer animations, the longer they are the harder for the ability to process Spinning Strike another Shadow/Assassin ability that does damage to targets below 30% is a fine example of this. SWTOR also tries to make the animations connect to look like they aren't being done in thin air, which means when the target moves out of range the animation doesn't follow through like it does with WoW but rather comes to a halt. While this does make the game a lot and I mean A LOT more visually pleasing, tying the damage and GCD proc to the end of the animation often results in the problem being faced.

 

Question that comes to mind is Backstab/Maul isn't so elaborate as Spinning Strike yet why do we face the same problem as when using Spinning Strike. For most of you do not play Shadow/Assassin, getting Backstabbed/Mauled isn't the best news for you. The animation kicks off with a difficult to ignore reeling of the saberstaff to end in a powerful forward thrust (mid-section directed) at the end of which the damage procs. During this reel if the target ranges, the damage doesn't not occur. However, with snare on it is hard for the target to range this attack. However, the reason behind the ability still failing is because, during the reel the target simply turns to face you, therefore negating the position criteria required to use "Back"stab/Maul preventing the forward thrust and the damage that follows.

 

I really feel your pain my friend, and I wish as much as you do that this problem gets resolved at the earliest possible as it is the utmost priority for PvP and moving targets in PvE encounters. All we can do is wait, and I appreciate any patience you have to spare on this matter, SWTOR really are trying hard to make things connect and they have the right attitude and will come out on top as they always have I assure you that.

 

Possible solutions:

1. Damage before animation. Do not tie damage into animations.

2. Complete the animation regardless of end position criteria to make the ability feel more complete and less hesitant (this might appear less attractive but more assuring).

3. If you want to retain the animation to connect to the target make it less elaborate so that it is not required for a person so spend a longer time seeing to it that he is in the right position relative to the enemy in order for his "instant" ability to process. (Instant != Elaborate).

4. If none of the above, then you can relax the positional requirement contraints to allow more room for the ability to process itself.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Stepkick

[gtdead]

If you ever go and smash a group of mobs, you will notice that smash registers it's targets THE EXACT moment you press the button. Damage is applied later in the animation, but the target registering happens the exact moment you press the button.

 

This does not apply to pvp for a lot of reasons. It's not a matter of player not being able to do it correctly, it's a problem that needs to be adressed.

 

Slowing the target has nothing to do with it, force crush is a slow. Doesnt change the fact that sometimes smash just wont register.