Skuishe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What you said about getting there in time to stop the cap isn't true. Every game I sprint for the east turret and I always stop them from capping unless I'm caught up in 2 stuns (because I break the first stun with CD) Granted, I have charge but I imagine any class with force speed, a charge, or ranged could do it (which I believe is everyone unless I'm totally overlooking something). Also, I realize there are plenty of discrepancies that make things bias for imperials, but there are many moves that are also bias against imperials and you never hear anyone cry about that. They need to be addressed but it's not ***-GAMEBREAKING You are correct, however, if Republic uses all the tools they have at their disposal (ie sentinel/marauder speed + consular speed to finish it off) and also positions correctly + ccs (as a scoundrel, i have enough cc to stop you well before the platform even with a single cc break), you do not make it. We've tested this with friendly imps on our server. I agree that in the majority of cases however, anyone with a force sprint will be able to stop an uncoordinated cap. I'm talking about in perfect scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vant Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Voidstar Players are no longer able to climb out of the attacking team spawn area in the hangar before the match starts. Yet the Civil War tickets still gives the Empire an advantage with tickets counting against Republic faster. It's not a small difference either it's a 35 ticket difference. I love how they fix the Republics advantage RIGHT AWAY but the Empire gets to keep theirs. Tired of your crap BW...I really am... Heer in Murrica we like are favortism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heikaze Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 We might get the short end but through adversity we just get better. This is where learning the maps helps. When I see the countdown, depending on the map, we are gone to defend, or hit nodes or get that huttball fast. Because of that countdown we have won a lot of matches. And the rest of the Reps on our server have been catching on. We have gotten to the point that in huttball we can get around 3 to 5 scores before the warzone ends if we are short. In Alderaan we cap that right node if we are short just to keep them ahead while one or two peope distract them at a second node ot keep them from having two. We get the win because of that instant tick and +5 bonus after. Voidstar is tricky if we are attackers first, but we've done it there to. Im not arguing with you about gameplay and skills. I agree, if you are playing with a competent its doable. Im just stating the fact that the game should start at almost even grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auhfel Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why do you guys assume one turret clearly belongs to the other faction? Everytime I play civil war I ALWAYS rush right as an Imp, and I almost ALWAYS stop the pubs from capping it. The only time I don't is when I get CC'd and I rushed it alone. Sure, the pubs get there perhaps 1-2 seconds faster.. but that's not long enough to cap it before you get there. Same thing for left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You are correct, however, if Republic uses all the tools they have at their disposal (ie sentinel/marauder speed + consular speed to finish it off) and also positions correctly + ccs (as a scoundrel, i have enough cc to stop you well before the platform even with a single cc break), you do not make it. We've tested this with friendly imps on our server. I agree that in the majority of cases however, anyone with a force sprint will be able to stop an uncoordinated cap. I'm talking about in perfect scenarios. Ahh, yeah then you'd be correct, it would be very difficult for one person to disrupt the cap from multiple people. If there are multiples there, though, and you're by yourself then you probably wouldn't be able to disrupt them for very long anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You are correct, however, if Republic uses all the tools they have at their disposal (ie sentinel/marauder speed + consular speed to finish it off) and also positions correctly + ccs (as a scoundrel, i have enough cc to stop you well before the platform even with a single cc break), you do not make it. We've tested this with friendly imps on our server. I agree that in the majority of cases however, anyone with a force sprint will be able to stop an uncoordinated cap. I'm talking about in perfect scenarios. Exactly. Every single round I go left as a Sentinel and use Transcendence on the person going to cap the left turret. They sprint (or whatever) the rest of the way and I grab the combat buff in the crevice and head directly to intercept anyone coming from the Imperial side. If someone is coming, I leap them (3 sec roots), and Force Stasis them (3 sec channel stun). If they break that with CC breaker or there are multiple people I bust Awe (AOE 6 sec Mez). No one has ever gotten past me and interrupted the flag capper. If Imperials did the same thing on their side no one would stop them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auhfel Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) You are correct, however, if Republic uses all the tools they have at their disposal (ie sentinel/marauder speed + consular speed to finish it off) and also positions correctly + ccs (as a scoundrel, i have enough cc to stop you well before the platform even with a single cc break), you do not make it. We've tested this with friendly imps on our server. I agree that in the majority of cases however, anyone with a force sprint will be able to stop an uncoordinated cap. I'm talking about in perfect scenarios. This makes no sense, because the imps could also use "all tools at their disposal" as well. You also seem to assume that you can only send 1 imp to stop capping. It's quite common for my guild to send a jugg/sorc combo in order to just disrupt the enemy team for capping the point for a long time, since the combo is so tanky. Edited January 31, 2012 by Auhfel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skuishe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ahh, yeah then you'd be correct, it would be very difficult for one person to disrupt the cap from multiple people. If there are multiples there, though, and you're by yourself then you probably wouldn't be able to disrupt them for very long anyway. Well point being, you'd only need to send one more person to that node than the other team sends consulars in order to guarantee a cap there. Basically in a very organized team you will see this discrepancy every single time. Come to think of it, if competitive 8v8 WZs ever come out, this could in fact be a problem if the meta turns into, each side capping the sides, then having a standoff in the middle where no one can cap the rest of the game =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This makes no sense, because the imps could also use "all tools at their disposal." You also seem to assume that you can only send 1 imp to stop capping. They're further away - all the tools at their disposal could not cap it. This isn't a difficult concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skuishe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) This makes no sense, because the imps could also use "all tools at their disposal." You also seem to assume that you can only send 1 imp to stop capping. Yes of course the imps could use everything they have. But if both sides are using everything they have, the distance difference makes it so the republic gets to the turret first, and has an easy angle to cut the imps off from the turret. This means that if you have one extra person past the capper for each force sprinter, you are guaranteed that turret. And not even more than one given that there are a large number of aoe slows you can throw on them as well. Edit: This guy said it much better than me: Exactly. Every single round I go left as a Sentinel and use Transcendence on the person going to cap the left turret. They sprint (or whatever) the rest of the way and I grab the combat buff in the crevice and head directly to intercept anyone coming from the Imperial side. If someone is coming, I leap them (3 sec roots), and Force Stasis them (3 sec channel stun). If they break that with CC breaker or there are multiple people I bust Awe (AOE 6 sec Mez). No one has ever gotten past me and interrupted the flag capper. If Imperials did the same thing on their side no one would stop them either. Edited January 31, 2012 by Skuishe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanealpha Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why do you guys assume one turret clearly belongs to the other faction? Everytime I play civil war I ALWAYS rush right as an Imp, and I almost ALWAYS stop the pubs from capping it. The only time I don't is when I get CC'd and I rushed it alone. Sure, the pubs get there perhaps 1-2 seconds faster.. but that's not long enough to cap it before you get there. Same thing for left. Each side's left hand turret is closer. That's an advantage to Imps if their left hand side also fires immediately like it does. Is this a big issue? No. But is it 100% balanced? No. There IS an advantage for the Imperial side. The point we have to remember though, is it's just not really a measurable advantage except in some EXTREME rare 0/5 situations. I've had 0/5's four times since go-live. I'm Valor 60 with most of my valor earned in warzones. So yeah, I've lost a couple times due to this issue. But it's really not that big of a deal. Certainly not on par with being able to jump out of the starting area early and tag the door before the timer even starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 They're further away - all the tools at their disposal could not cap it. This isn't a difficult concept. Whosit whatsit? They are equal distances apart, the difference is is how the actual exit is set up which is the same for both sides. IE the node to your left is easier and thus quicker to reach the node to your right is longer run and thus harder to reach and the middle is equal for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Whosit whatsit? They are equal distances apart, the difference is is how the actual exit is set up which is the same for both sides. IE the node to your left is easier and thus quicker to reach the node to your right is longer run and thus harder to reach and the middle is equal for both sides. So what you're saying is they're not equal distances from the spawn. EXACTLY. Edited January 31, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auhfel Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Yes of course the imps could use everything they have. But if both sides are using everything they have, the distance difference makes it so the republic gets to the turret first, and has an easy angle to cut the imps off from the turret. This means that if you have one extra person past the capper for each force sprinter, you are guaranteed that turret. And not even more than one given that there are a large number of aoe slows you can throw on them as well. Perhaps, but then the whole "everything at their disposal" argument goes out the window. Force speed and marauder speed buff are negligible, because both sides can do it. The only "advantage" is that one side can CC the other side in an attempt to slow them down from stopping a cap.. and even that is chocky at most. What about a Juggernaut and sorc rushing at the cap? The sorc could speed up and take any CC's from the enemy team, which would likely allow the jugg to force charge to anyone who attempted to stop the sorc.. giving the jugg distance. The jugg could then force push the person who attempted CC at the sorc, and charge to the capper (or to whomever he charged, depending on which way the enemy was pushed. If you have unstoppable force (prevents controlling effects, you can't be CC'd after a charge)). Perfect situations this and that, there is a lot that could happen. Edited January 31, 2012 by Auhfel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Force speed and marauder speed buff are negligible, because both sides can do it. You guys are unbelievable. They are NOT THE SAME DISTANCE. Nothing the Republic can do will make them start closer to the east turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) So what you're saying is they're not equal distances from the spawn. EXACTLY. Uh, I never said that. They are equal distances from the spawn point. There is a wall that is purposely set up. Not only that, you don't understand the whole point. And seriously, I can count on one hand how many times in the past couple of weeks the Imps have actually been able to cap that east node on us. Edited January 31, 2012 by Silverspar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auhfel Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You guys are unbelievable. They are NOT THE SAME DISTANCE. Nothing the Republic can do will make them start closer to the east turret. You dont even understand what my point was. The person said that the repubs would have an advantage in doing so (the speed), but the advantage has absolutely nothing to do with using those speed buffs. It's only in the distance difference. he tried to use those buff as part of his argument, when in reality they mean nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polebreaker Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The left turret is easiest to cap first, map is designed that way. I do it for both imp and repub, and I always get there first and cap it first. It's a fact that the republic ship starts taking damage sooner when both guns are captured simultaneously. This has NOT been fixed "since december", it hasnt even been acknowledged by the devs. But anyone who even plays the game knows this to be true. The empire gets a 5-10 point lead in the civil war every time. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Uh, I never said that. They are equal distances from the spawn point. There is a wall that is purposely set up. Not only that, you don't understand the whole point. And seriously, I can count on one hand how many times in the past couple of weeks the Imps have actually been able to cap that east node on us. What is it you said? "the node to your right is longer run and thus harder to reach" It's ok, they'll teach geometry in the second year of high school. Hang in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skuishe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Perhaps, but then the whole "everything at their disposal" argument goes out the window. Force speed and marauder speed buff are negligible, because both sides can do it. The only "advantage" is that one side can CC the other side in an attempt to slow them down from stopping a cap.. and even that is chocky at most. What about a Juggernaut and sorc rushing at the cap? The sorc could speed up and take any CC's from the enemy team, which would likely allow the jugg to force charge to anyone who attempted to stop the sorc.. giving the jugg distance. The jugg could then force push the person who attempted CC at the sorc, and charge to the capper. Perfect situations this and that, there is a lot that could happen. Sigh. Ok here we go slowly. The whole everything at their disposal argument was made because someone was comparing himself using marauder sprint, against at team which likely did not use all their sprints, meaning he gets to the turret carrier with no trouble. To your second point, each side is MUCH closer to their left turret. As a pub, as SOON as I land, I'm in line with the western most edge of the central building. As an imp, I have to run 5-6 seconds to reach that same edge on the imp side. This means that with no cc, pubs get to the turret faster. It also means that anyone moving to intercept an imp can cut them off halfway to the turret (halfway is a rough approximation, but in quite a few tests, I can assure you it's well short of the platform, more than double the range of any ability anyone could throw). Having the capper stand behind the turret means that the only thing that can really stop them is instant aoe. Your scenario is creative but I can assure you it would not be enough to reach the capper in time. We tested this, I wouldn't say extensively, but quite a few times with quite a few combinations. None of them even came close. Maybe if you have a team of 7 sorcs and a marauder, and sent them all at west. "There is a lot that could happen" just means "I have no concrete knowledge or testing of this theory, I just refuse to believe you". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowyourdead Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 While I agree it needs fixed, I also agree with them fixing Voidstar first since that's a bug that was being abused. The turret isn't being abused and can't be controlled - hopefully it will be fixed next patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetrump Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I'll do you one better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neqw0HSwNA4 I hope this has cured you of your ignorance. To all the people saying it was client lag or w/e Republic locked on first, the west point was uncontested in the following screenshot. http://dies-irae.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Screenshot_2011-12-29_01_09_46_364097.jpg The imperial advantage continued to climb as the battle for mid continued and no one could cap it, as you can see it's already at 10 points. Edited January 31, 2012 by davetrump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsane Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Let's see, an instant advantage that can only be used by one side and will likely cause them to win the match due to the impossible speed of the bomb plant, vs a 5 point difference (if your side doesn't cap the advantageous turret for some reason) that will likely not even matter since even the hardest-fought civil wars tend to end with a 30+ point difference. Wonder which should take precedence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auhfel Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sigh. Ok here we go slowly. The whole everything at their disposal argument was made because someone was comparing himself using marauder sprint, against at team which likely did not use all their sprints, meaning he gets to the turret carrier with no trouble. To your second point, each side is MUCH closer to their left turret. As a pub, as SOON as I land, I'm in line with the western most edge of the central building. As an imp, I have to run 5-6 seconds to reach that same edge on the imp side. This means that with no cc, pubs get to the turret faster. It also means that anyone moving to intercept an imp can cut them off halfway to the turret (halfway is a rough approximation, but in quite a few tests, I can assure you it's well short of the platform, more than double the range of any ability anyone could throw). Having the capper stand behind the turret means that the only thing that can really stop them is instant aoe. Your scenario is creative but I can assure you it would not be enough to reach the capper in time. We tested this, I wouldn't say extensively, but quite a few times with quite a few combinations. None of them even came close. Maybe if you have a team of 7 sorcs and a marauder, and sent them all at west. "There is a lot that could happen" just means "I have no concrete knowledge or testing of this theory, I just refuse to believe you". Test it with a sorc/jugg combo and get back to me. I don't think you are trying hard enough. Once you attempt to stop the sage, it allows the jugg to have a target to force charge/leap to someone (which cuts distance, and grants the jugg 'Unstoppable', immunity to interrupts /cc). Once the Jugg jumps to the target (which he just snared) he can then push that target even closer to the turret and jump to them again (and can't be stopped, due to unstoppable) and then finish up with either a sabre throw, smash, sweeping slash, or even a cybertech grenade, depending on what he needs to do. I'd like to see you theorycraft on that strategy, given reasonable amounts of opposing faction going to the same turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblongship Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) To all the people saying it was client lag or w/e Republic locked on first, the west point was uncontested in the following screenshot. http://dies-irae.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Screenshot_2011-12-29_01_09_46_364097.jpg The imperial advantage continued to climb as the battle for mid continued and no one could cap it, as you can see it's already at 10 points. By the end of it people have tested this and it has been a 35+ point advantage. It's absurd and needs to be fixed. Holding the outside nodes with no one capping mid. Edited January 31, 2012 by oblongship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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