This game badly needs mods and macros.

[Penelopia]

I would love some kind of recount as well ^^ I understand why people can have a problem with it. But it just has to be used with brain.

If you're raiding and have no idea why you keep hitting the enrage timer, a dps addon can be a great help.

[BWHazz]

This is my opinion on the matter:

 

YES mods and addons allow people to enhance their gameplay, tweek in their dps, give them useful info, etc but after all that is said and done, mods tend to become a tool in a **** measuring contest and allow certain people to troll others and point out how they sux at the game by not doing as much dmg or not using certain class abilities or whatever.

 

After people start using these addons/mods, what you see in chat is people looking to create grps for end game content where others need to meet certain criteria just to get into said grp (ie You need do do xxx dps, or you need xxx gear or you need xxx addons).

 

Now this could be because these people dont want to "carry" lesser skilled gamers thru content, or it could be that they just want to make sure they have the most uber grp they can find to blast thru the mobs and acquire the phat loots at the end without suffering the challenges that make it "endgame" (ie wipes, long completion times etc).

 

What happens when people burn thru the content and get all geared up fast...they get bored with the game and take a haitus waiting on an expansion to come out and renew their interest.

 

I for one am willing to forego any and all addons/mods in this game if it keeps people civilized and treating others with respect and courtesy merely because they cannot see what dps others are doing or not doing or what abilities they are using or not using.

 

This game is centered quite a bit around its "social" aspect so lets be social and create grps with people we have never played with before and make new friends and run instances and get loot and just have fun because its a game.

 

Now before I myself get flamed by people who take offense to certain portions of this OPINION, realize that this is MY OPINION to the general masses. If ANY or NONE of this applies to you great. If you AGREE or DISAGREE with any of what I have said...great. I just had to get my 2 cents out there because I too was looking for BWs stance on addons/mods and came across alot of positive and negative opinions for and against them.

[TheNdoki]

After people start using these addons/mods, what you see in chat is people looking to create grps for end game content where others need to meet certain criteria just to get into said grp (ie You need do do xxx dps, or you need xxx gear or you need xxx addons).

And someone else comes in to beat the dead horse. Seriously, this exact same point has been reiterated dozens of times already and I'll say the same thing... not everyone cares, and it's possible to find plenty of groups who DON'T rely on addons or who DON'T care if others don't have them.

 

What happens when people burn thru the content and get all geared up fast...they get bored with the game and take a haitus waiting on an expansion to come out and renew their interest.

Or start doing things other than just raiding, like exploration, achievements, leveling an alt, leveling a profession, etc. Besides, if they uber leet players DO burn through content super fast, isn't that their choice to make?

 

I for one am willing to forego any and all addons/mods in this game if it keeps people civilized and treating others with respect and courtesy merely because they cannot see what dps others are doing or not doing or what abilities they are using or not using.

If you think mean people are nice without addons you haven't been playing much... Jerks will find ways to be jerks no matter what.

 

this is MY OPINION to the general masses.

opinion

Pronunciation: /əˈpɪnjən/

noun

1a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

 

So you admit that what you said is probably not based on fact? It's cool to say "I personally just don't like addons" but to make a statement that looks like a fact (and an incorrect one) to argue why addons shouldn't be allowed at all isn't an opinion.

 

Besides, if you personally don't like addons this doesn't really affect you since you could just choose not to download them. The rest of us would just like to have that choice.

[subrosian]

The day the allow 3rd party add-ons will be the day I stop playing SWTOR, along with everyone else I know.

MODS ruined WoW. Boss mods became the norm, so encounters started being designed around them. Rotation mods became the norm, allowing bad players to just sit there and play Simon Says. The introduction of mod-after-mod that had unintended consequences, from multi-box bots that allow players to run an entire BG, to PVP mods that flagged Healers, the list goes on, and it has made the game completely dependent on running whatever the latest broken mod is.

 

WoW's entire history can be detailed by mods - from Healing Mods that literally managed dispels and targeting for you during Vanilla, alongside bot mods... to the Boss Mods and DPS automation tools that defined BC, to mods in Wrath that allowed you to draw paths on the ground and completely script for your players where to stand and what to do. Cataclysm was the era of broken PVP mods that dumbed down any kind of competition, and the return of GRID functionality that literally tells Priests *which player to target with their healing spells*, it stops just short of hitting the buttons for them, and despite attempts to break it every patch, it returns to full functionality within a week.

 

-

 

-

 

Once you open the option for one mod, some other unintended mod can come into existence. As long as said mod isn't put into CURSE or some other giant "Everyone can see it" type of thing, it can remain unknown for weeks, even months, before it gets broken by the devs... and not every mod can be broken, so the issue becomes worse. You need to give players access to timestamps in order to have a Meter mod, yet those same timestamps are what allow Boss Mods to tell a player when to jump, move, DPS, burst, stun, interrupt, etc...

 

It goes on and on, every option you open for a seemingly legitimate cause ("oh we can let them draw on the raid frames so they can make a mod that shows buffs and HoTs") opens up an unintended possibility ("...they made a mod that automatically tells each healer what spell to cast on what target so it coordinates their healing for them and they don't ever have to think or talk.... ugh...")

 

-

 

SO NO.

 

Never.

Ever.

EVer.

EVER.

 

I don't want to deal with that crap again. I don't want to deal with having to have CURSE on my machine and having to constantly update mods. I don't want to deal with the default UI being left as a broken DISASTER (as WoW has done) based on the assumption you'll just go out and get mods. I don't want an MMO built around mandatory Mods because the devs have pulled effort from developing a good UI in-game, where the option of having Mods leads to a game where there is constant cheating (WOW PVP), every encounter is built around boss mods, and the mods are now the accepted NORM for players.

 

Oh, and I was 7/7H 25-man Ragnaros 3-healing pre-nerf. I did the Tier 13 PTR Heroic modes well before anything resembling a functional mod was in place. Guess what? Mods are bad, the best players in the game don't get to use them on the PTR in WOW, and they shouldn't be in the LIVE game. They're not just a crutch for bad players, they are also the path that BOTS, CHEATERS and LAZY PLAYERS use to ruin the experience for everyone.

 

They can never be optional.

They can never do "only certain functions"

They can never not impact the community.

They can never "only impact the people who want to use them".

 

They change the game, they are bad, the great experiment (WOW) demonstrated that Mods have all sorts of terrible consequences, and the so called "time saving on the developers" actually winds up taking MORE OF DEVELOPERS TIME as they become embroiled in a constant war to maintain the security of their game and stomp out all of the cheating mods.

[Mineria]

The day the allow 3rd party add-ons will be the day I stop playing SWTOR, along with everyone else I know.

MODS ruined WoW. Boss mods became the norm, so encounters started being designed around them. Rotation mods became the norm, allowing bad players to just sit there and play Simon Says. The introduction of mod-after-mod that had unintended consequences, from multi-box bots that allow players to run an entire BG, to PVP mods that flagged Healers, the list goes on, and it has made the game completely dependent on running whatever the latest broken mod is.

 

WoW's entire history can be detailed by mods - from Healing Mods that literally managed dispels and targeting for you during Vanilla, alongside bot mods... to the Boss Mods and DPS automation tools that defined BC, to mods in Wrath that allowed you to draw paths on the ground and completely script for your players where to stand and what to do. Cataclysm was the era of broken PVP mods that dumbed down any kind of competition, and the return of GRID functionality that literally tells Priests *which player to target with their healing spells*, it stops just short of hitting the buttons for them, and despite attempts to break it every patch, it returns to full functionality within a week.

 

-

 

-

 

Once you open the option for one mod, some other unintended mod can come into existence. As long as said mod isn't put into CURSE or some other giant "Everyone can see it" type of thing, it can remain unknown for weeks, even months, before it gets broken by the devs... and not every mod can be broken, so the issue becomes worse. You need to give players access to timestamps in order to have a Meter mod, yet those same timestamps are what allow Boss Mods to tell a player when to jump, move, DPS, burst, stun, interrupt, etc...

 

It goes on and on, every option you open for a seemingly legitimate cause ("oh we can let them draw on the raid frames so they can make a mod that shows buffs and HoTs") opens up an unintended possibility ("...they made a mod that automatically tells each healer what spell to cast on what target so it coordinates their healing for them and they don't ever have to think or talk.... ugh...")

 

-

 

SO NO.

 

Never.

Ever.

EVer.

EVER.

 

I don't want to deal with that crap again. I don't want to deal with having to have CURSE on my machine and having to constantly update mods. I don't want to deal with the default UI being left as a broken DISASTER (as WoW has done) based on the assumption you'll just go out and get mods. I don't want an MMO built around mandatory Mods because the devs have pulled effort from developing a good UI in-game, where the option of having Mods leads to a game where there is constant cheating (WOW PVP), every encounter is built around boss mods, and the mods are now the accepted NORM for players.

 

Oh, and I was 7/7H 25-man Ragnaros 3-healing pre-nerf. I did the Tier 13 PTR Heroic modes well before anything resembling a functional mod was in place. Guess what? Mods are bad, the best players in the game don't get to use them on the PTR in WOW, and they shouldn't be in the LIVE game. They're not just a crutch for bad players, they are also the path that BOTS, CHEATERS and LAZY PLAYERS use to ruin the experience for everyone.

 

They can never be optional.

They can never do "only certain functions"

They can never not impact the community.

They can never "only impact the people who want to use them".

 

They change the game, they are bad, the great experiment (WOW) demonstrated that Mods have all sorts of terrible consequences, and the so called "time saving on the developers" actually winds up taking MORE OF DEVELOPERS TIME as they become embroiled in a constant war to maintain the security of their game and stomp out all of the cheating mods.

+1 Covers about everything there is to say about mods.

[TheNdoki]

MODS ruined WoW.

 

Which is why WoW is one of the biggest MMO's in existence. Riiight.

 

Seriously, if you don't like addons, DON'T USE THEM. If you're as good as you claimed to be then it shouldn't have been an issue anyways. Nobody is forcing anyone to use them, so what's the problem?

Edited February 26, 2012 by TheNdoki

[KuroshimaiHD]

Which is why WoW is one of the biggest MMO's in existence. Riiight.

 

Seriously, if you don't like addons, DON'T USE THEM. If you're as good as you claimed to be then it shouldn't have been an issue anyways. Nobody is forcing anyone to use them, so what's the problem?

 

I absolutely loathe this argument. The problem might not be apparent right now, but later on operations and flashpoints will start to be designed with mods in mind, which is always bad. Instead, what should be done is Bioware should implement addon-style features, such as proper buff/proc alerts or threat alerts. They don't have to WoW style boxes with a ton of numbers in them, but just simple graphical representations, e.g. as your threat increases, an aura of some sort develops. I'm sick of watching my buff bar for procs, so it would be neat to know what's about to proc/expire without taking my eye off the action.

[TheNdoki]

I absolutely loathe this argument. The problem might not be apparent right now, but later on operations and flashpoints will start to be designed with mods in mind, which is always bad.

 

Or BW could learn from WoW (which they seem to be pretty good at doing) and have dungeons that are meant for both styles of players, a.k.a. regular and heroic (which they already have) or the LFR for endgame content. Anyone who says WoW endgame raiding is dependent on addons has obviously never done any LFR groups. I love how all anti-addon arguments usually have "addons ruined wow because all the dungeons were made harder to compensate." and ignore the fact that WoW successfully balanced their dungeons to suit both casual (normal dungeons and LFR) and hardcore (heroic and 25 man non-LFR) players alike. It's really not hard to do, and BW is already starting down that road.

 

So why can't the game be designed with 'easy' and 'hard' modes alike? Why does it have to be your way or the highway?

 

Instead, what should be done is Bioware should implement addon-style features

Which puts more work on BW employees and takes away from their time that could be spent, say, fixing bugs or adding more content.

 

e.g. as your threat increases, an aura of some sort develops. I'm sick of watching my buff bar for procs, so it would be neat to know what's about to proc/expire without taking my eye off the action.

Wait, you hate staring at your buff bar, but you're suggesting having to stare at your character? How is that any different? Frankly I'd rather stare at my buff bar and cooldowns than my buff bar, cooldowns, AND character.

 

P.S. dungeons weren't made hard because of addons, they were made hard because mindlessly easy dungeons are boring for most gamers and defeat the purpose of dungeons in the first place. Feel free to look up "Wow, dungeons are hard!". It's written by the lead system's designer for WoW, and not once does he says dungeons were hard because of addons. It's a good read, look it up.

Edited February 26, 2012 by TheNdoki

[Mineria]

It's written by the lead system's designer for WoW.

 

Blizzard already stated around mid TBC that they started designing encounters assuming players had certain addons.

Design choices where made so that players had to look away from their UI.

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1874673769#1

 

Also many design choices regarding the games default UI are copied from addons.

 

Not to mention the changes to close for certain addons functions, like AVR.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Mineria

[KuroshimaiHD]

Which puts more work on BW employees and takes away from their time that could be spent, say, fixing bugs or adding more content.

This is hardly something that will take time. There's already (very crappy) sound alerts for certain procs, it's only a small step to make alerts graphical.

 

Wait, you hate staring at your buff bar, but you're suggesting having to stare at your character? How is that any different? Frankly I'd rather stare at my buff bar and cooldowns than my buff bar, cooldowns, AND character.

I don't know if you realise, but usually watching lightsaber duels and blaster battles is more interesting than watching for a little icon so you can press the corresponding button. Believe it or not, it's quite different.

[TheNdoki]

Blizzard already stated around mid TBC that they started designing encounters assuming players had certain addons.

You do realize that the majority of that article is them admitting they dropped the ball on providing players with the necessary information right? Programming/design issues that they admit third party addons fixed? The only quote I've seen so far on there that even comes CLOSE to what you're saying is them trying to make the fights more dynamic so people have to pay attention "instead of just pushing whatever button the addon tells them to push" but frankly the same thing could be said for any player who just knows their rotations really well. Also as I said before, the entire matter could be resolved by just having two different versions of the dungeons, like many MMO's (including wow and ToR) already do. On the other hand arguing against people being able to mash one button to play really just boils down to you trying to control how everyone else plays, and making them play your way, which is both selfish and unfair, and will alienate the majority of players.

 

Also many design choices regarding the games default UI are copied from addons.

Which is an excellent argument why addons are beneficial to a game's growth, both for the players AND the programmers/designers. Look at it this way: Without addons WoW probably never would have used quest tracking, threat meters, the profession window, or various other features that most players enjoy. Finally there'd be no incentive for the developers to come up with more dynamic dungeons. I can't remember how many times as a group leader I had to say "tank and spank" before a boss pre-WotLK.

 

This is hardly something that will take time. There's already (very crappy) sound alerts for certain procs, it's only a small step to make alerts graphical.

Making already audible alerts graphical is a personal preference, and if BW had to change the game to suit everyone's preferences it would take a LOT of time, not to mention conflicting programming (since not everyone's preferences are similar) and they'd end up spending a large amount of time and money changing hundreds of little things to the game that could be left to a third party. You saying you want graphical alerts for procs is no different than someone else saying they want DBM, the only difference is they're not trying to make BW make it for them, nor are they trying to force it on everyone else. Maybe some of us would prefer audio alerts instead? I know I would.

 

I don't know if you realise, but usually watching lightsaber duels and blaster battles is more interesting than watching for a little icon so you can press the corresponding button. Believe it or not, it's quite different.

Yes and watching the battle is more interesting than staring at your character's back the whole time trying to see a character glow for a proc, which was my original point.

 

 

Edit: I just realized, many arguments on here are either:

a) addons force the developers to make dungeons harder which is -bad-

b) addons make the game too easy which is -bad-

Am I the only one who sees the contradiction here?

Edited February 26, 2012 by TheNdoki

[SuperGrunt]

It's disgraceful at the level of UI customization in this game. Addons should be added to the game, but more importantly, macros need to be added to the game. Even a simplistic game like SWG had macro support.

 

SWG was not simplistic, and that is exactly the thing we don't need. In SWG you where able to do everything in game without actually being at the keyboard through the use of macros. What good would this kind of option do for us? What playstyle would this support? Quite simply it might make things easier on you, but it would allow gold sellers to automate the game more easily and get more credits to sell to people. I have enough gold spam in game that I don't want to make it easier on them. I would much rather have to do everything myself then to give a gold seller the ability to sell credits to people who are not good at the game.

[Mineria]

On the other hand arguing against people being able to mash one button to play really just boils down to you trying to control how everyone else plays, and making them play your way, which is both selfish and unfair, and will alienate the majority of players.

No, I'm arguing about them wanting something giving me the ability to add an virtual undetectable script that automates the mashing.

If you have anything against that you are alienating me too.

 

I have played other successful mmo's that never got any addons or macro functions, and can ensure you that it isn't the lack of such that prevented them to become more successful than the big one out there.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Mineria

[SuperGrunt]

This is my opinion on the matter:

 

YES mods and addons allow people to enhance their gameplay, tweek in their dps, give them useful info, etc but after all that is said and done, mods tend to become a tool in a **** measuring contest and allow certain people to troll others and point out how they sux at the game by not doing as much dmg or not using certain class abilities or whatever.

 

After people start using these addons/mods, what you see in chat is people looking to create grps for end game content where others need to meet certain criteria just to get into said grp (ie You need do do xxx dps, or you need xxx gear or you need xxx addons).

 

Now this could be because these people dont want to "carry" lesser skilled gamers thru content, or it could be that they just want to make sure they have the most uber grp they can find to blast thru the mobs and acquire the phat loots at the end without suffering the challenges that make it "endgame" (ie wipes, long completion times etc).

 

What happens when people burn thru the content and get all geared up fast...they get bored with the game and take a haitus waiting on an expansion to come out and renew their interest.

 

I for one am willing to forego any and all addons/mods in this game if it keeps people civilized and treating others with respect and courtesy merely because they cannot see what dps others are doing or not doing or what abilities they are using or not using.

 

This game is centered quite a bit around its "social" aspect so lets be social and create grps with people we have never played with before and make new friends and run instances and get loot and just have fun because its a game.

 

Now before I myself get flamed by people who take offense to certain portions of this OPINION, realize that this is MY OPINION to the general masses. If ANY or NONE of this applies to you great. If you AGREE or DISAGREE with any of what I have said...great. I just had to get my 2 cents out there because I too was looking for BWs stance on addons/mods and came across alot of positive and negative opinions for and against them.

 

This is exactly the way I feel about it.

[BWHazz]

So you admit that what you said is probably not based on fact? It's cool to say "I personally just don't like addons" but to make a statement that looks like a fact (and an incorrect one) to argue why addons shouldn't be allowed at all isn't an opinion.

 

Depends on how you use the term fact. Is it an absolute truth....meh I dont deal in absolutes. What I can say is that my opinions were derived from my own perceptions and observations which are unique to me and if they happen to be identical to others thoughts on the subject then great.

 

By the way...Who said I dont like addons? I dont remember ever saying in my opinion that I dont like addons. Granted most of my opinion was negative in respect to HOW ADDONS ARE USED BY PEOPLE but now you are saying that I am "arguing" that addons shouldn't be allowed at all and that is simply not true. If BW allows addons in the future I may find a few that I like and are willing to use to enhance MY gameplay some way. I did say I was WILLING to forego addons if it kept people from trolling one another but as you so aptly put it jerks will be jerks no matter what, I just dont think they need more tools to do it with.

 

How about addons that only reference your data and not everyone elses? So that you can use the addon to enhance YOUR gameplay and not spend time worrying about what other people are doing or not doing? Is that an acceptable compromise? You would still get to use addons right?

[Tyrazz]

As a WoW player i felt like i had to post here and explain my POV on somethings u guys said. I went 6/7 Heroic on Firelands pre nerf and i know how important addons can be.

 

1st - "Addons make the endgame content and raid easier." Thats not true, in fact, if u take a look at WoW as it is today, it would be impossible to Raid without addons, so your statement could be valid back on Vanilla or Burning Crusade, but not today. Addons in fact help the developers to make fights harder and more challenging, which make them more fun (Those who don't like challenges shouldnt even be raiding, they should be doin heroic dungeons.).

 

2nd - "Stop using WoW as an example." That would be impossible since wow started the whole addons thing on MMORPGs, so it would be like discussing about soda pop without mentioning Coke.

 

3rd - "It should be used as a self improvement tool that doesnt show other people your performance as a player" Possible but worthless. You can do WoW raids without Damage/Healing meter addons, but those who know what they are doin will realize when someone is doin a poor job and will kick this guy from the raid ASAP. How the **** am i supposed to be a good tank if i cant see my threat? How am i supposed to be a good DPS if the only DPS i know its my own dps? What about healing? How am i supposed to be a good advertiser without ever watching tv, reading news paper, using internet or anything like that? U need comparison for self improvement.

 

4th - Damage/Healing meters also create a good thing for the community, and that thing is called COMPETITION. I realize that some of u guys play games only for fun, but for some people like me, theres no reason to play a game if i'm gonna be the worst and the most useless guy on my group. Competition is good, it helps the community to grow, want u or not.

 

So basically, addons help the developers to improve the game challenge, help the players to self improve.

 

Raiding without competition its like playing soccer with only one team playing.

[TheNdoki]

How about addons that only reference your data and not everyone elses? So that you can use the addon to enhance YOUR gameplay and not spend time worrying about what other people are doing or not doing? Is that an acceptable compromise? You would still get to use addons right?

 

When it came to recount it was prettymuch used for three things (as I'm sure everyone here who has ever used it already knows).

1. To know how much dps you were doing, and to help improve yourself.

2. To see how well everyone else in the group was doing (which was useful to find the one person who, say, wasn't DPSing at all and just autofollowing for the loot)

3. To be a jerk to people who were doing less than 100% dps.

 

Now our guild WAS one of those that used addons, but didn't force any members to, and while I never posted meters to make someone else feel bad, if there was someone in the group that was doing seriously below average dps (like so low they weren't even trying) I'd probably whisper them to ask what's up. If they were struggling I'd offer some tips, if they just weren't trying I'd ask them to and kick them if they didn't.

 

I guess what I'm saying is although it can be abused, it has it's uses too, and it really boils down to finding a group/guild that isn't a bunch of jerks. I would settle for a personal dps meter, but in the end if I'm in a raid and we keep wiping because of one person, I'd like to know who it is. It's better to have one person told they might need to try a little harder, than an entire raid group of angry people who don't want to do it anymore.

[Kucerakov]

I had no idea how little people really understand what macros can, and more importantly cannot do. Macros cannot play the game for you. Wow. Edited February 27, 2012 by Kucerakov

[fallenellaf]

Hi there people! I just wanted to say, I do agree with the existance of macros and I do believe that the kinda evolve combat.

 

 

 

 

 

See imo the challenge on a game shouldnt be on how hard it is to use your skills cause you dont have enough fingers to press the keys. Nor the rotation keeping.

"Skill" should be on brain, not on hands. If you agree then you wouldnt mind macros and people wanting them.

[skidrows]

Only way i would agree that macro would be ok is if Bioware add it in game and simple make the CD time on a macro higher then you can click it if you dont use macro, say CD is 1sec then macro take 1.5sec before it click next "buttom".

[TheNdoki]

Only way i would agree that macro would be ok is if Bioware add it in game and simple make the CD time on a macro higher then you can click it if you dont use macro, say CD is 1sec then macro take 1.5sec before it click next "buttom".

 

I can understand you wanting to limit macros, but considering ToR has a built in pre-click timer, it's not really possible to click abilities faster with a macro than without, so there's no real need to nerf the system. Besides, castsequence macros are just inherently bad and can't adapt to different situations anyways, so they aren't really a benefit. Macros are usually used for things like compressing the amount of abilities per castbar space, or combining cooldowns.

 

Personally if macros were allowed the first thing I'd do is combine my 'trinket' with one of my cooldowns. Having it on my cast bars I never remember to use it, and half the time the game removes it from my cast bar anyways, so it's practically useless without macros.

[Melbad]

I think the title of thread is very misleading. At first glance someone might get the impression we actually do need this. This is misleading. The very reason this thread keep's getting bumped by the people like me who say "No we don't stop speaking for the entire community" people that came from wow with training wheel of mods need to learn to seriously let thing's go.

 

Oopsy, you just said that those of us that believe a macro or mod should be added may be speaking for those of you that don't and that we should stop. You should take some of your own advice and NOT speak for everyone else by stating your own view is accepted by "everyone".

A macro would make the use of the TWENTY-FOUR actions I use a bit easier to manage while I tab to switch targets and right/left mouse button to move forward while I try to keep track of the medic and Mind Snap the Sorc trying to drain my life and chase my mouse button around the screen to click one of the side bars that have my force run.

I don't see that macros would be anything but helpful... sorry.

That was me speaking for me though.

[prolifick]

All of you who keep crying about how addons will end up making people be "mean" to you because your dps isn't up to par, the bottom line is that your just bad at the game.

 

The fact that you do not want raid leaders to have the ability to analyze data from their raids just shows how elementary your way of thinking actually is. I spent the majority of my WoW career in US guilds that were competing with the Euro guilds for the #1 spot, so I can admit that my perspective on things is not going to align with 99% of the player base.

 

However, the fact still remains that anyone who is using an argument that they like SWTOR because there is no way to analyze data from raids, just shows that you care less about the progress of your guild and more about whether or not you can be held accountable for crap play. Nobody is forcing you to use addons and if you don't want to be in a guild that holds people accountable, don't join one. Just remember....the guilds who use "Recount" to determine raid spots or anything else are the guilds that your used to playing in. Any guild that has an ounce of intellect will use mods that extract data from the game and can be analyzed at a later time to determine far far more than Recount.

 

The only purpose that Recount serves is for personal accountability, as well as finding out why your tank died. Yes, maybe after that the raid leader will ask the healers why he only got x amount of heals over x amount of time, but understand that is an integral part of raiding. It allows on the fly iteration and helps guilds fix small problems and progress. Instead, you would prefer that you just keep wiping on the same mechanic over and over until you just get lucky enough to get to the next stage?

 

 

Inexperienced nubs are the only people who will actually argue against addons, but it is because of their inexperience that they do not see the real value, and I guess because of that, can they really be blamed?

 

The debate on macros and addons has become way too black and white, and that is just not the case. Those like myself who argue for addons/macros are doing so because we want the ability to analyze our play and make improvements. Yes, there is a very small percentage of people who would attempt to use them to exploit, and make them play the game for them, but the majority of people just want more options, more customization, and more interesting play.

 

A lot of you argue that something like a boss mod plays the game for you, but you fail to see the real value in a boss mod. Think about playing with no mods and try to envision how little you are able to track, see, and react to. Its just a dumbed down way of playing. Sure, you don't get raid warnings for who has a debuff, or when a certain attack is coming, etc. However without the ability to see every detail, you lose the ability to react to every detail.

 

So, for all the arguments about addons making the game too easy, there are just as many about how the lack of addons makes the game too easy. Instead of having a much more dynamic gameplay, the lack of addons ultimately just allows people to coast through the game, oblivious to all of the little nuances that are actually going on around you. In it's current state, SWTOR does not allow you the ability to really figure out it's mechanics.

[Drakkaris]

People want to cry and moan about addons and that they help give you stuff to play the game easier. I am sorry but this game is not hard to begin with. I was an addon dev for WoW and all though I didn't need them to play, I liked them. They were my choice and that was that. I raided and pvp'd both with them and without them. I did all heroic clears with no issue what-so-ever with them and without them. I also played since release of WoW and back in the past it was harder to raid back then because they told you nothing about the fight and what was going to happen most of the time. They added the bulk of this in WotLK. What addons did do for a guild was to weed out the weak and un-dedicated to the guild. How did it do this? It held people responsible for FAILURE. It exposed the weak dps, the weak tanks, and the weak healers. It exposed the people unwilling to gem or enchant their gear. However, it did give them a chance to rectify some by adding DBM-like addons to allow those whom didn't study a fight to be able to have a chance to understand when and what they were doing wrong. Addons added a level to my interface that I was unable to achieve normally as I like to spruce up my view of things. I like the bells and whistles, I like the tighter set up since I run Eyefinity now. Did I ever or did I all ways use addons? No I shut a lot of them off and used them when I wanted to.

 

People fear addons because it will make you responsible for your faults and you will be requested to get more knowledge of your toon. I am sorry but I will never pug again because I had to teach people how to do certain things because they were absolutely clueless what to do. People, whether you like it or not, addons are a matter of choice and choices will be given whether you like it or not. Get better, get out of the way, or become pavement for the road being laid. I could careless either way but I would prefer that you do get better with or without addons because TBH I am all ready clearing Nightmare Modes and it is quite easy as they tell you when things are happening and there are decent write-ups on what you should do for rotation and efficiency. They are not perfect but when combat logs are finally able to be parsed they will be complete. I would rather play with a lot of different people but I am not going to bash my head against something just because someone is too lazy to do homework.

 

As for macros, the interface needs a lot of work and this is part of it. I want these things to be added as they will quicken response times and will essentially allow for more challenging content to be created as right now clearing everything is beginning to get drab and boring.

[monkgryphon]

Wow that's a lot of reading...

 

Overall both sides seem to agree on one thing:

 

You may want them, but you don't NEED them.

 

Some say it will allow Bioware to make more challenging content with mods in mind, but why can they not make more challenging content without mods?

 

Another argues against those that say mods make the game too easy, but then goes on to say the game is already easy to begin with. Ergo wouldn't that mean mods aren't needed?

 

With meters and such, no one is going to feel any more responsible for faults than they already did before having meters. People know if they're good at whatever they do or if they need improvements just by playing the game and grouping up. A meter doesn't need to tell them that.

 

Some addons are going to be beneficial, sure, but let Bioware implement them. That way they aren't an addon, they're an in-game option or tool. I'd love to see a personal combat log. I don't care to see my teammate's logs, just my own for my own character. Mainly I want it so I can see in writing whether or not my abilities actually fire, and I have something to go back to for what sorts of damages or de-buffs I am taking in certain encounters.

 

Modifiable UI is going to be nice in 1.2, but it would be nice to be able to make custom UI skins to change the appearance of all the UI elements.

 

In the end of all things, if there were free reign of mods, then you might as well start selling the game with these mods, because the new players aren't going to be able to join guilds or groups without having them beforehand. They create standards that aren't really needed.

 

Want all you want, but fact of the matter is that the gaming experience is still enjoyable without them.