Operations in its current state

[cipher_nemo]

And once again two steps forward in bug fixes, one step backwards:

This time SOA seems to have random aggro issues during phase 3 on all modes. Not sure if intended, but it sure makes him somewhat more annoying. It's not in the patch notes, so I'll chuck it up to being a bug.

 

Ug. Thanks for the heads up. We'll keep a watch on this when we run this weekend.

[Hxxr]

No new gear on Nightmare vs hard

Gear progression currently stops at hard mode and does not provide any more better loot on nightmare mode. Adding better loot to nightmare mode gives more incentive for guilds to do them. Not to mention it makes sense in terms of progression.

 

No incentive for 16 man

Same as previous statement, only here it’s 8 man VS 16 man.

 

While you made a lot of good points those two wont ever change.

There doesn't need to be a 4th level of loot for nightmare. It's Rakata loot is being doubled, that's more than enough.

 

Why should 16 man drop better loot than tha actual raid size escapes me entierly. 16 man raiding is an option you can take instead of running two 8 man operations, thus it drops the same loot.

[Poochymama]

The biggest problem with raiding really is nightmare mode. If nightmare mode offered a real challenge comparable to WoW raiding, and provided appropriate gear rewards for that challenge, a lot of these other points could be overlooked. At the moment nightmare mode serves no purpose except to be a very slightly tougher gear check in every encounter except Soa.

 

This, IMO, is the biggest problem. Nightmare mode and Hard mode are far too easy for what their name suggests. None of the bosses on Hard/Nightmare mode should be 1 shot-able just coming from normal(which most of them are).

 

I came from EQ2 and Rift(HK) where it took weeks and even months (Djiin Master-6 months, Akylios-3 months) to down individual bosses.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Poochymama

[Molus]

I agree completely with the OP. However I would also add in the need for a /roll command.

 

Fighting challenging content = Fun.

Fighting frustrating bugs = Frustrating

[Schwick]

I agree completely with the OP. However I would also add in the need for a /roll command.

 

Fighting challenging content = Fun.

Fighting frustrating bugs = Frustrating

 

/roll should be in the first post under master looter advance. I even recall a dev saying a /roll function was underway in the (near) future.

[Schwick]

I agree completely with the OP. However I would also add in the need for a /roll command.

 

Fighting challenging content = Fun.

Fighting frustrating bugs = Frustrating

 

Just to be sure, I added it under raid tools also.

[Fomorii]

They need to implement a bypass for the damn pillars. Put in a speeder that becomes active after you start the pillars. They are taking waaaaay too long to fix this, so they might as well give us a way around it until they finally do remove the bug.

[Maoxx]

The thing is, I'm almost willing to bet if players could get 50's relatively quickly either by premades, character copy, or even just super high experience rates and start with decent gear for their class, then they might catch these things before they get released. I mean lets face it WoW's ptr most certainly doesnt get all the bugs, but they do a much better job using it than this game does. Yea they still need to hotfix stuff, but the funny thing about that is....they usually hotfix gamebreaking bugs to encounters with a day or 2.

 

But right now EV is always a new experience when you do it every week, because of all the diffferent bugs that you can get.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Maoxx

[maxbaby]

Excellent thread. +1

 

Here is a comprehensive list of SOA HM issues: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2743845#post2743845

Edited February 11, 2012 by maxbaby

[malaclyps]

+1

 

i suggest we all link this thread into the Q&A thread, or copy/paste the OP to show our support for it.

 

 

well organized, coherent, with good solid suggestions, i like it.

[Descendz]

Great post.

The thing is, I'm almost willing to bet if players could get 50's relatively quickly either by premades, character copy, or even just super high experience rates and start with decent gear for their class, then they might catch these things before they get released. I mean lets face it WoW's ptr most certainly doesnt get all the bugs, but they do a much better job using it than this game does. Yea they still need to hotfix stuff, but the funny thing about that is....they usually hotfix gamebreaking bugs to encounters with a day or 2.

 

But right now EV is always a new experience when you do it every week, because of all the diffferent bugs that you can get.

 

Exactly, this is what boggles my mind more than anything else. Why did they release a PTR with no way to "easily" obtain a level 50? Whether through character copy or pre-mades, something to allow players to easily test the endgame content and find most of these bugs/issues. I understand they are planning to add character copies soon, but that doesn't solve the current issues. I hope we will see new mechanics in future fights on HM/NM, as being able to one shot a boss that is supposed to be difficult is a huge letdown.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Descendz

[Darthtorn]

Ive been through many of the pve and pvp bugs and I am also frustrated with things...but I would also like to point out that BW has put all these things in(perhaps too many things)and apparently a lot of folks were not there for WOWs release since so many hold it as the standard. It was horrible in the early days the amount of bugs..server crashes......There were NO raids when wow released...Molten core and Onyxia came later ubrs was the raid. And BGs did not exist...they came much much later.

 

....They(Blizz) would shut there servers down for days at a time to fix things...doing the same thing now would send the ship jumpers to jumping ship sooner if bw tried that.

 

....I to hope BW fixes this awesome game...but you first day release WOW folks and any other MMO vets should know better than to expect a game to be flawless on release or in a few weeks/Month in.

 

I personally think they should take the servers down for a bit...fix these things or properly test their patches..but please stop saying it should be a polished game yesterday...because in all the MMOs Ive played on one comes to mind that was solid on release.....or at least seemed to be.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Darthtorn

[Descendz]

Ive been through many of the pve and pvp bugs and I am also frustrated with things...but I would also like to point out that BW has put all these things in(perhaps too many things)and apparently a lot of folks were not there for WOWs release since so many hold it as the standard. It was horrible in the early days the amount of bugs..server crashes......There were NO raids when wow released...Molten core and Onyxia came later ubrs was the raid. And BGs did not exist...they came much much later.

 

Molten Core and Onyxia were in the game at launch. The difference between SWTOR and Vanilla WoW leveling is the amount of time needed to reach the max level. In WoW, it took far longer to reach the maximum level, which is most likely the reason for this misconception. You're right about battlegrounds though.

[Maoxx]

Ive been through many of the pve and pvp bugs and I am also frustrated with things...but I would also like to point out that BW has put all these things in(perhaps too many things)and apparently a lot of folks were not there for WOWs release since so many hold it as the standard. It was horrible in the early days the amount of bugs..server crashes......There were NO raids when wow released...Molten core and Onyxia came later ubrs was the raid. And BGs did not exist...they came much much later.

 

....They(Blizz) would shut there servers down for days at a time to fix things...doing the same thing now would send the ship jumpers to jumping ship sooner if bw tried that.

 

....I to hope BW fixes this awesome game...but you first day release WOW folks and any other MMO vets should know better than to expect a game to be flawless on release or in a few weeks/Month in.

 

I personally think they should take the servers down for a bit...fix these things or properly test their patches..but please stop saying it should be a polished game yesterday...because in all the MMOs Ive played on one comes to mind that was solid on release.....or at least seemed to be.

 

Yes they did, and yes it had problems, but you know I would really like to think that programmers do get better as time passes. Either through what they learn in school or through training courses etc.....if their still mystified by the same mistakes that WoW was making back in 2006, then I guess there ain't much hope for them afterall.

[Schwick]

The PTR character copy is being worked on. I'll still add to the first post though.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2662200#edit2662200

[maxbaby]

On UI ->

Blog: http://www.swtor.com/blog/incoming-changes-global-cooldown-ui

Thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2735324#edit2735324

[Rahruk]

There is a big bug that my guild and i cant get passed. When we down a boss and loot him, it has preselected recepient. It did this twice on Annihalator droid and Gjarj. Does anyone know how to get passed this?

[Rahruk]

I will also add that it was the same 2 people that got the gear

[Schwick]

That's normal for normal mode. You can't control loot in normal mode. Hard mode and nightmare mode you can. For a lot of people, this is a bad system of doing loot. For PUGs, it's great.

[Aluano]

Well written post, I agree with all the points.

 

Those changes would make operations even more fun!

[kheide]

If you put loot in Nightmare mode that scrubs can't get with a PUG BioWare will get major QQ from these (the majority sadly) players. It's the same argument as with arenas and people not wanting them if they give better loot. If you're not gonna play arena or nm-mode then you don't need it anyway so stop whining.

 

I would like to add one thing to your post;

 

- In this current state with all the points you've made here it's also no point for a guild to have more than 10 members and raid once per week.

 

Conclusion; the game is for casual players who don't want to make an effort. BioWare doesn't give a rats *** about the rest of us since we're the minority and we don't pay the bills.

[malaclyps]

in fairness, expecting depth and arc at this point after launch is just a teensy bit unrealistic.

 

sure, your allowed to cry that it's not here. That doesn't make it any more unexpected for a game a month into it's life cycle.

 

 

You and i might understand that a game really starts at end game, that we'll all spend FAR MORE TIME at max level, than we do grinding up to being able to raid.

 

But reviewers don't get that. stockholders sure as hell don't, even half the gaming sites don't.

The focus is, and has to be, keeping that opening window open as long as possible, getting as many people in and attached and grinding toons, to establish a solidly profitable, secure base, before even considering major end game expansions for a mature (max level) playerbase.

 

To have already gotten as much as we have is pretty damned encouraging in my opinion. You could always come back in a year when the games a little more mature.

 

All that aside, wiping to bugged encounters really is f****** unacceptable, and completely destroys morale, and enjoyment of the game. The Raids we have are broken. Fix them FFS.

Edited February 14, 2012 by malaclyps

[Schwick]

If you put loot in Nightmare mode that scrubs can't get with a PUG BioWare will get major QQ from these (the majority sadly) players. It's the same argument as with arenas and people not wanting them if they give better loot. If you're not gonna play arena or nm-mode then you don't need it anyway so stop whining.

 

I would like to add one thing to your post;

 

- In this current state with all the points you've made here it's also no point for a guild to have more than 10 members and raid once per week.

 

Conclusion; the game is for casual players who don't want to make an effort. BioWare doesn't give a rats *** about the rest of us since we're the minority and we don't pay the bills.

 

Done Also removed the BOP crafting stuff seeing this is confirmed to be addressed and already addressed a little.

[IGLATUUN]

in fairness, expecting depth and arc at this point after launch is just a teensy bit unrealistic.

 

sure, your allowed to cry that it's not here. That doesn't make it any more unexpected for a game a month into it's life cycle.

 

 

You and i might understand that a game really starts at end game, that we'll all spend FAR MORE TIME at max level, than we do grinding up to being able to raid.

 

But reviewers don't get that. stockholders sure as hell don't, even half the gaming sites don't.

The focus is, and has to be, keeping that opening window open as long as possible, getting as many people in and attached and grinding toons, to establish a solidly profitable, secure base, before even considering major end game expansions for a mature (max level) playerbase.

 

To have already gotten as much as we have is pretty damned encouraging in my opinion. You could always come back in a year when the games a little more mature.

 

All that aside, wiping to bugged encounters really is f****** unacceptable, and completely destroys morale, and enjoyment of the game. The Raids we have are broken. Fix them FFS.

 

 

 

^^ THIS

 

Thanks for the positivity. I tend to agree.

 

A few other points that I would like to bring up (I played WoW from Vanilla...)

 

1) Yes game development should learn from other companies mistakes. To make the assumption, however, that programmers improve over time is assanine. That would be similar to saying that programmers intelligence is collective, that an improvement at one company means a knowledge improvement at all companies. Just because Blizzard has significant experience at bug fixes, etc, now, after what, 6 years? I guarnatee too, that the TOR teams will be significantly more fluid with fixes in 12 months, not to mention 6 years.

 

2) Point about about paying player base is right on. IMHO, now that BW has a significant player base (I dont know their corporate targets for subs, however) it would make sense to turn their focus on end game. Eventually more casual people will hit 50 and then that will be the paying player base. What is the ratio, do you think, of subs clearing ops versus subs grinding to 50? Think about it... while you might think so, you dont want BW to focus solely on end game. That would equal diminishing the significant majority of player base under 50, which would ultimately hurt the entire game/community. Less $$ = Less development.

 

3) March sounds like a lot of improvement are coming. Let them get there before you QQ more.

 

4) A huge point that many in the community lack to understand is player progression. How many toons have you levelled to max in WoW and various other games? Have you honestly not noticed that you improve at the efficiency of getting to max level (time wise)? To say that WoW had a steeper learning curve was correct but in an incorrect sense. We all went through that learning curve with the first toon in WoW, but since this game has a similar framework, that learning curve applies here. BW couldnt have assumed it would take 6 months to get people into ops...why would they have new flashpoints (Kaon) if they did? They know full well how quickly people will level. If SWTOR was released pre-WoW, I predict that the time it took people to level to 50 would have been nearly double, as we wouldnt have been educated to the extent that we are now. This wont be solved until developers go to different options of levelling. Ie. no levels, skill based, etc. SWG!

 

 

 

Anyways /rantover

[malaclyps]

the levelling curve was pretty forgiving. i considered it good customer service. i could either stick to planets, and plantary heroics, or pvp/instance my way up. either path offered an easy level a day from dailies. You only outlevelled content trying to do both.

 

Made me a lot more likely to run up some alts. i never got one past 50 in wow before losing interest in the grind.

 

storylines are interesting enough here that i'm likely to actually finish them.