thrashpower Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I just started a vanguard (level 25). And I kinda already knew this but I can't see the reasoning behind it. I just feel really gimped in warzones by not being able to swap cells on the move. I have a 50 Rage jugg (549expertise) and on that character I swap forms between soresu(tank) and Shii-cho(dps) all the time during combat or during movement before a combat. This is especially useful when I need to guard a ball carrier in huttball since he won't be standing still and I need to keep up. I am afraid my vanguard will be pigeonholed into a terrible shieldspec, who wants shield chance in pvp..... In the jugg tanking spec you can at least opt to not spec for useless mitigation, not that it matters since I feel my rage jugg tanks just fine while getting all the dps medals and thus ending up with between 13-15 medals depending on wz. I skimmed through the vanguard issues thread and couldn't find this, so just wondering why and how you guys deal with this. Edited January 30, 2012 by thrashpower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonaho Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think you can directly compare our cells to stances. The cells are much more specialized and tied into their respective trees, receiving buffs via talents, and as such do not really require any "stance dancing" since you're not going to be swapping them on the fly. There's practically no reason to switch from, say, a shield-spec Ion Cell to an untalented Plasma Cell or HEC. The only exception might be, as you mentioned, switching to IC from PC or HEC for the purposes of guard. But even then you're likely to be much more useful staying on your talented cell and bringing it's full damage potential into combat instead of switching to an un-talented cell and trying to guard without much in the way of defense statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashpower Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think you can directly compare our cells to stances. The cells are much more specialized and tied into their respective trees, receiving buffs via talents, and as such do not really require any "stance dancing" since you're not going to be swapping them on the fly. There's practically no reason to switch from, say, a shield-spec Ion Cell to an untalented Plasma Cell or HEC. The only exception might be, as you mentioned, switching to IC from PC or HEC for the purposes of guard. But even then you're likely to be much more useful staying on your talented cell and bringing it's full damage potential into combat instead of switching to an un-talented cell and trying to guard without much in the way of defense statistics. Tanking juggs don't need to stance dance either. My topic is from a dps viewpoint since I find pure tank in pvp to be kinda useless, you trade dps/5k hit medal etc. for slightly more protection against snipers and marauders with the current state of defensive mechanics. And the stances in both AC's can be directly compared imo, there's roughly an equal number of talents that only work in whatever stance. My rage jugg for example has 6 talentpoints tied into Shii-cho dps form, quite the dps loss but I can instantly swap forms when I am going to hit someone, hence this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheldras Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Cause its technically replacing the magazine of you Rifle or Cannon, that dosnt go instant, even if you just drop the old magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonaho Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tanking juggs don't need to stance dance either. My topic is from a dps viewpoint since I find pure tank in pvp to be kinda useless, you trade dps/5k hit medal etc. for slightly more protection against snipers and marauders with the current state of defensive mechanics. While this is a separate topic, i disagree strongly. You don't spec Shield Specialist for the boost in defense mechanics, although it does provide that in the from of flat reduction (see builds like 25/14/2), you go for it for the utility it brings into play. Far from "useless." And the stances in both AC's can be directly compared imo, there's roughly an equal number of talents that only work in whatever stance. My rage jugg for example has 6 talentpoints tied into Shii-cho dps form, quite the dps loss but I can instantly swap forms when I am going to hit someone, hence this thread. The SW stances are a bit more refined in their output and purpose, and thus there's at least somewhat of an incentive to "stance dance" now and then that warrants them being instant. The Trooper Cells in comparison are much more specialized and tied into their respective trees. Again, if you're sporting a deep assault build, you're going to be more effective in bringing that Assault-DPS to the aid of a ball-carrier. The whole premise of this thread is basically "What do you think about the cast-times on trooper cells?" Well i think that since you run with only one cell activated anyway, it doesn't really matter that they have a small cast time (Which i guess is due to the abilities being "Ammo Cells," swapping one in your gun isn't an instant action). Could the Trooper Cells be switched to being instant cast? Yeah sure, why not. But since in actual gameplay you won't be swapping them on the fly, it makes little difference. And i'd rather Bioware fix the multitude of our actual problems instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntaLou Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I pvp as assault spec on my vanguard, and shielding is really valuable to me. I almost exclusively play in ion cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romgaard Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I pvp as assault spec on my vanguard, and shielding is really valuable to me. I almost exclusively play in ion cell. What?..... Could u post your build, because I have yet to come up with a useable assaultbuild with Ioncell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntaLou Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 What?..... Could u post your build, because I have yet to come up with a useable assaultbuild with Ioncell. I just pvp with a regular assault spec just in ion cell (I pve aswell so I can't avoid all the plasma cell buffs). I took blaster augs instead of increased aim for the 8% ion cell dmg. In WZ's my average is around 250k-300k dmg done 30k+ protection and minimum 8 medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthSD Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I recently switched to assault spec and was surprised to learn that while they say that ion cell and plasma cell do similar damage, ION is energy damage (subject to armor, so reduce by 30-50%) but plasma is elemental (usually 0%). Ion ticks (at level 40) do 65 damage, plasma almost 200, (I'm at work, this is by memory)... I would never go back to ion unless fully specced for it. I just realized why they have a cast time on it: if u didn't, you have enough talents to have good plasma cell, cast ion attack, (guaranteed burn), ion cell, stockstrike (electric dot), high energy, (fast run speed), its not designed to play like that and its not balanced for it. Would also be less fun to play. Edited January 30, 2012 by AnthSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ururururu Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) as a former juggernaut myself I get where you are coming from. but on the plus side, and its a very big plus, ammo regeneration is quite good compared to soresu while trying to dps something down. f it, just stay in ion cell IMO. play parakeet (21/2/18) and tell me that spec isn't nicer than messing with a rage/soresu stance dance type spec. you can't easily kill a top healer but with ~5 interrupts (riot strike -> storm -> riot strike -> cyro stun -> riot strike -> storm -> riot strike -> 2s stun) and a pull you can get most. just remember to watch your ammo, need to use a lot of hammer shot. or you can try 4/6/31 for dps, or 2x/1x/2 storm+gut+riot build. edit : and shield is garbage in pvp.. Edited January 30, 2012 by ururururu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts