I kind of understand the Scrapper/Operative nerf...

[salvadorellama]

That being said in the subject, the real problem is that the entire scrapper (and imperial mirror) is pretty much locked in to what you have to take as talents.

 

Tier 5 needs 2 more choices for talents, maybe even add something else at other tiers, but 5 is the real problem. After tier 2, you only have 5 points on each tier to spend.

 

If some more abilities (passive or activated) were added...and these abilities were viable for PvP and PvE (e.g. a gap closer since the scrapper tree is a mostly melee build).

 

If BW thinks these builds are overpowered, at least give us some options other than what we currently have.

 

I enjoy stealth classes. I started as a shadow and I enjoy scrapper infinitely more. I hate seeing the nerf bat used when there are really no alternatives for talents.

 

Please, constructive feedback only. This is not a whining thread, this is a thread stating I understand why nerfs might be needed and to offer alternative ideas so the entire tree can work better and scrappers aren't locked into a set talent build.

[enediol]

I've been on the receiving end of the stun and it really is infuriating - especially since I'm lvl 41. I understand the whining but I also see where a lot of our class mechanics are necessitated by the ability.

 

Lets face it - without the huge openers and after the giant damage dump we're pretty much worthless. Devs should look into giving us more sustained dps.

[syntxerr]

It is certainly understandable that being killed in a stunlock is frustrating.

People however don't realise what the class and spec is all about. This is not some Vanguard running around hitting people. You do it one by one. If something goes wrong, you're dead pretty quickly and you rely on cooldowns, you can't rinse and repeat this procedure every 10 seconds.

 

People don't understand that. They see what the class does to them and shout about it being unfair. That's just the same about Sages/Sorcs when people complain about their knockback. Fact is, it's essential to their mechanic. If it wasn't for this ability, they'd drop quicker than people imagine.

[hadoken]

It is certainly understandable that being killed in a stunlock is frustrating.

People however don't realise what the class and spec is all about. This is not some Vanguard running around hitting people. You do it one by one. If something goes wrong, you're dead pretty quickly and you rely on cooldowns, you can't rinse and repeat this procedure every 10 seconds.

 

People don't understand that. They see what the class does to them and shout about it being unfair. That's just the same about Sages/Sorcs when people complain about their knockback. Fact is, it's essential to their mechanic. If it wasn't for this ability, they'd drop quicker than people imagine.

 

I think the arguments against the class are valid, because people don't like the design. I imagine people understand the class is designed as a stealth using alpha striker, and that's what they hate.

 

I've seen this pattern for years in MMOs. Why designers keep putting in that kind of class and then nerfing it because the victims hate it I don't understand. If you're going to put it in, keep it in and give the complainers a "too bad" response. Don't put it in then neuter it to hell.

 

Or rework the entire tree. I guess they could do that too, still. I mean the game shipped already but I imagine that won't stop them from completely changing it

[Syrlogan]

You know as I level my Guardian I can also understand the constant crying screams of every other class. When I hear the snick of an operative knife cutting I just cringe and grind my teeth as that level 49 Op drops my level 24 like a hot rock.

 

Then I smile a litte knowing that at 50 and in equivalent gear I'm going to eat an operative's lunch if he opens up on me.

 

As my scrapper gets closer to battlemaster I am seeing a gradual degrading of our performance in mass Ilum battles and WZs. The gear is making a huge difference for everyone. There are far larger problems in class balance on the horizon then getting knocked down for 3 whole seconds.

 

I am forced to sit far off to the side because of the mass AOE (guess which class that is) and the fact that as soon I hit someone for 5k my zero survivability glass canon *** is vaporized by an semi competent pvper.

 

I'm starting to see whole warzones filled with sith warriors with far more survivability hitting the 5k mark as well.

 

Story line was awesome though and I've really enjoyed that compared to my Jedi.

[MrContact]

I think the arguments against the class are valid, because people don't like the design. I imagine people understand the class is designed as a stealth using alpha striker, and that's what they hate.

 

I've seen this pattern for years in MMOs. Why designers keep putting in that kind of class and then nerfing it because the victims hate it I don't understand. If you're going to put it in, keep it in and give the complainers a "too bad" response. Don't put it in then neuter it to hell.

 

Or rework the entire tree. I guess they could do that too, still. I mean the game shipped already but I imagine that won't stop them from completely changing it

 

Agreed

 

As long as we have the strong opener the scoundrel class itself is limited by the fact that people can't deal with front loaded burst classes. As long as a socundrel is able to take out a target relative quick people will keep thinking we are OP no matter what other problems the class got.

 

At first I was against the nerfs to Shoot First, the burst is our trademark after all, however now I am for them. Shoot First is in the current state a too powerfull tool and it makes us too reliant on it. K.O: Should be changed to a slow + damage (and healing) reduction debuff allowing Scrappers to still have an advantage when they opens, but gives the target a chance to react as well.

 

I would prefer the Scoundrel class to move towards an direction with less burst, a little bit more sustained dps, the same squishiness, BUT with utility to make up for that. We should have tools to control the fight and therefore keep us alive.

 

Someone had a great suggestion, but I cant remember his name. His suggestion was to let the flying fist proc from Suckerpunch interrupt spellcasts on targets it didn't stun. Since its a proc it would be an extra addition against caster classes, but it wouldn't be an reliable interupt thus it would still be used as a dmg ability.

[Sonorous]

Firstly, I'll start off by saying my smuggler is only level 28. However, having faced them in warzones on my Shadow, I can honestly say I think this nerf is garbage.

 

So we have a Class that has no gap closer, and unless plays the perfect rotation, is all but eaten alive. Yet they are to be nerfed?

 

Sure I've run into the odd operative and gotten taken down pretty quickly, so what! I've also won my fair share against them too.

 

If any dev's happen to read this, here's an idea for you? How about nerfing Sorc's forcequake? Have you been to illum? Have you had 20 of them spamming it? Do you realize what melee have to do in order to get ANY valor there? How about giving us stealth classes some kind of "Cloak of Shadows" ability? How about giving a smuggler a gap closing ability?

 

If you wanted them to play essentially as a stun-lock rogue, why the hell would you now make them all but useless. Bad form, devs. Bad form. Way to cave to the masses of whiny little sorcerers/sages.

[Metalmac]

This had a HUGE impact on doing Dailies at level 50. My survival just went way down.

 

Now I run out of resources all the time and watch my Companion tank drop dead as a Scrapper. How am I supposed to do the same quests now that I have recieved a 50% nerf to damage in my opener?

 

Did BW even take 10 seconds to say "Wait will this effect PVE normal players?"

[Turn-XGundam]

they didn't nerf the class yet did they???

i think its in the next patch.

[hadoken]

This had a HUGE impact on doing Dailies at level 50. My survival just went way down.

 

Now I run out of resources all the time and watch my Companion tank drop dead as a Scrapper. How am I supposed to do the same quests now that I have recieved a 50% nerf to damage in my opener?

 

Did BW even take 10 seconds to say "Wait will this effect PVE normal players?"

 

This hasn't gone live yet, dude.

[Metalmac]

This hasn't gone live yet, dude.

 

Play on the test server.

[WasabiJack]

The core of the issue is that to stop a gank by an operative you really need to have your A game on and the operative needs to not get lucky crits in a row.

 

As a scoundrel, if an operative opens on me, I immediately break the stun and vanish or if he hit me for 3k or less, I will kick and see where I can take the fight but I have the option to vanish but not everyone does.

 

But most people are just horrible or too young/stupid so the game has to be brought to that level. It's like the bright kids in school have to suffer because 60% of the class is a B grade students.

 

Anyway, they are going to reduce the burst, that part is for sure, but will they add more sustained dmg, up the quick shot dmg a little, reduce the energy cost of some skills or both.. may be.

[hadoken]

Play on the test server.

 

You have a 50 that you do dailies on the test server with?

 

BioWare would have to pay me to do that.

[Kliever]

Firstly, I'll start off by saying my smuggler is only level 28. However, having faced them in warzones on my Shadow, I can honestly say I think this nerf is garbage.

 

So we have a Class that has no gap closer, and unless plays the perfect rotation, is all but eaten alive. Yet they are to be nerfed?

 

Sure I've run into the odd operative and gotten taken down pretty quickly, so what! I've also won my fair share against them too.

 

If any dev's happen to read this, here's an idea for you? How about nerfing Sorc's forcequake? Have you been to illum? Have you had 20 of them spamming it? Do you realize what melee have to do in order to get ANY valor there? How about giving us stealth classes some kind of "Cloak of Shadows" ability? How about giving a smuggler a gap closing ability?

 

If you wanted them to play essentially as a stun-lock rogue, why the hell would you now make them all but useless. Bad form, devs. Bad form. Way to cave to the masses of whiny little sorcerers/sages.

 

This guy= New best friend

 

Unfortunately since so many people decided to play with the sorcs and sages, We have little to no say since we're the minority. They will probably end up bending backwards for them even despite the fact that most of them cry nerf if they so much as even stub their toe on another players boot.

 

''WAHHHH!!! BIOWARE!! THAT MEAN (insert other class) HURTED MY FOOTSIES!! NERF THEM NOW!!''

Edited January 30, 2012 by Kliever

[salvadorellama]

I guess I was wrong, after playing for a bit this morning:...

 

This is a significant nerf. Very much so. If seems more like a 30-40% nerf. Shoot first feels useless now.

 

This is not the class you're looking for. You can go about your business. Move along.

 

I was also fighting an Imp that seemed like he was guarded, but had no guard nearby or guard icon on him. He was also breaking CC's and stuns 2 and 3 in a row. I don't know if they introduced new bugs with this patch or what, but scoundrel now feels damn near useless.

Edited January 31, 2012 by salvadorellama