Can we trade some story for some MMO?

[Meleagaunt]

LFG is for lazy, un social people. Finding a group really isn't that hard, and my server is light pop, maybe 40 people on the fleet at peak hours.

 

Thank God you don't have any preconceived notions of the work/play habits of people who like an automated LFG system. Its always good to see open minded people who don't call others names just because they disagree with them.

 

Anyways... I like the LFG system. It jut simplifies the process, and best of all is that it's an optional system. No one forces anyone to group exclusively that way.

 

Letting people enjoy the game, ALL aspects of the game, at their own pace or their own way may offend you, but I have a feeling BW would agree with me that more people would like it over hating it.

[StonySpider]

Thank God you don't have any preconceived notions of the work/play habits of people who like an automated LFG system. Its always good to see open minded people who don't call others names just because they disagree with them.

 

Anyways... I like the LFG system. It jut simplifies the process, and best of all is that it's an optional system. No one forces anyone to group exclusively that way.

 

Letting people enjoy the game, ALL aspects of the game, at their own pace or their own way may offend you, but I have a feeling BW would agree with me that more people would like it over hating it.

 

If I prefaced everything I typed with "In my opinion" then I'll have spent way too much time catering to the people I disagree with. It's called strong language. It enforces your opinion by stating it as fact. It doesn't mean that you have a closed mind, I see the advantages of an LFG system.

 

Plus, my notion is more like post-conceived. I've used LFG in WoW, tried to socialize, and never talked to a groupmate once, and when I did, it was to defend myself. That's not to say there aren't exceptions to the rule, but when I used LFG, intending to get well-mannered, sociable team members was just too much to hope for.

 

Plus, would it really be an optional system? It would be so conveinient that everyone would use it whether they wanted to or not, because otherwise they could spend a long time trying to find a group. Like if they gave the option to travel to every other place instantly, who wouldn't use it in lieu of flying in your ship?

[Jett-Rinn]

can we trade some of these kids who cry about everything, for some real mmo players?

 

thanks.

 

Agreed.

[-Xeper-]

can we trade some of these kids who cry about everything, for some real mmo players?

 

thanks.

 

Agreed.

[Dalex]

Thanks for bumping my post with "Agreed". Too bad you don't actually have anything to say or it might have made for good conversation.

[StonySpider]

If only the "real MMO" players were left to play SWTOR then it would either go free to play, or just fail catastrophically. And you all know that.

[ratfanatic]

Having 30 people in one low level zone is not a "ghost town."

 

Try getting some perspective so you don't sound so ignorant.

Edited January 30, 2012 by ratfanatic

[Orkayl]

can we trade some of these kids who cry about everything, for some real mmo players?

 

thanks.

 

No, but you can trade all these 'kids who cry about everything' for F2P with a cash shop or maybe just shutting the game down altogether. How's that sound?

 

It's not the players fault that they don't like the game. If you order a burger and it tastes terrible, is that your fault? Better keep going to that restaurant every day, they will get it right eventually and you can enjoy hamburgers then, right?

 

These Biodrones, most entertaining part of this game.

 

@OP correct.

[StonySpider]

Having 30 people in one low level zone is not a "ghost town."

 

Try getting some perspective so you don't sound so ignorant.

 

No, but having 6 people on Ord Mantell is. Calling other people ignorant without provocation is a socia faux pas.

[knightblaster]

I think the real problem here is several different groups demanding to be pleased at once. This game has to have one of the most divided fanbases in terms of the reason they subbed, that it's inevitable that something Bioware does will rub people wrong.

 

On the one hand there are people who bought the game because it's Knights of the Old Republic 3, which as I can attest to is something that people have been wanting since the second one was released. These people would much rather Bioware focus on the story, as it is a story they've been wanting to continue for a very long time.

 

One the other hand there are the hardcore MMO players that left WoW because they were tired of all the BS Blizzard is implementing these days, and they want Bioware to focus more on the MMO aspects of it.

 

As a member of both groups, it's pretty clear to me that the problem is simply a matter of conflicting interests. Developing both would take way too much resources than Bioware can manage at the moment, so by definition someone is always going to be disappointed at the direction the game is going.

 

My advice, give it time, if SWTOR becomes even near as popular as WoW, Bioware will be raking in millions, and they'll be able to devote so much more resources to make it the game everyone wants to play. Until then enjoy what it actually is, which is a really, really fun game.

 

This is my view, too.

 

It was to be expected that this is what they did, really. As a developer, you lead with your strengths. What is BioWare's main strength as a developer? Story-based, companion-based gaming. Whether KOTOR or Mass Effect or Dragon Age or Jade Empire or even their older games, this is the strength. Some of their games feature more interesting "pure gameplay" than others, but that has never been their strong suit ("oh, gee, BioWare's games have such amazingly innovative gameplay" -- how often do you hear that?). So, in designing this game, they led with their strength.

 

The issue they face, however, is that this strength was developed in the context of single player RPG (using the term roughly --- probably more accurate to call them something like "interactive adventures" the way Bio does them), which is a game type that brings a whole different set of expectations than an MMORPG. Bio approached this with its SP RPG strength, and has run headlong into the average MMO player/fan, who has a set of expectations about his/her gaming experience in an MMO that really doesn't value "story" all that much other than as a more (or less) pleasant distraction while leveling. Thus for a lot of the MMO fans portion of who were attracted to the game, focusing on story in making an MMO seems like designing a game around the character sheet menu -- it seems like a disastrous waste of time and money. This part of the community doesn't want a "story based MMO" any more than it wants a "character sheet centric MMO" -- it appreciates a better told story, but isn't willing to dedicate too many "appreciation points" towards that element, which is relatively minor in importance in their MMO enjoyment, as compared with standard MMO elements and how well these are implemented. It's this part of the purchasers of the game (the MMO fans who bought it primarily because it's a new MMO) who are the most scathing in their criticism of the game, generally, I think. And it was easy to see this coming, because Bio's strength as a developer doesn't play into something that is very much valued by this side of the playerbase.

 

As you say, there is another side of the playerbase, too -- a mixture of BioWare fans and Star Wars fans. This group seems to like the game more, but of course has its criticisms as well (e.g., quite a few of the SW fans wanted this game to be more like a sandbox like SWG). But it isn't generally as outright caustic and bitterly disappointed as the MMO fan side of the playerbase is. That's because Bio's strength plays more to the interests of this side of the playerbase than otherwise.

 

It's very hard to please both, especially as one aspect -- the one that Bio has focused its design on as its pre-existing strength -- is "new" (in its presentation and implementation) in MMOs and not valued much by existing MMO players. It is hard to imagine how this can really be changed, however. In my own opinion, BioWare's games are made quality because of the story-telling and not in spite of it. Some of their games had more interesting gameplay than others, but gameplay, per se, is generally not the draw, and if the games didn't have the story telling they did, they would be decidedly average games, in my opinion. I doubt that BioWare can shift focus away from placing a huge emphasis on cinematic storytelling and really have a pleasing product, because the rest of the product will likely be average. It must improve nevertheless from where it is now in terms of bugs and fixes and features and content -- that's obvious. But I think if they moved away from story as focus, they're stepping into areas where they are not areas of strength for the developer. Perhaps this was an inherent problem in having BioWare, given its strengths, develop an MMO, which has a persistent world that people are supposed to play for months, long after a story is played through -- but that gets to the overall design philosophy question of whether it makes sense at all to create a "story based MMO". That decision was already made, really. I don't think it will be unmade.

[PurpleMagick]

I'd rather have more story and less MMO tbh.

[ckoneful]

There are more "GROUP" quests while lvling then WoW right now and that's considered the "best" MMO. I thought MMOs were about playing with other people not rushing to the cap?

[ObiQuixote]

Bioware spent 200million on writers and voice actors. They forgot to budget money for actually hiring programmers.

It does seem like we got a $5m MMO with $195m worth of VO work.

[Ahalav]

Bioware spent 200million on writers and voice actors. They forgot to budget money for actually hiring programmers.

 

LOL so true!!

[Goobmeister]

Spacebar, Spacebar, Spacebar, Spacebar, hover mouse on 1, if netral click 1, Spacebar, Spacebar, Spacebar, Spacebar, if blue or red find the appropriate response for your toon and done. Edited January 30, 2012 by Goobmeister

[Stejo]

It does seem like we got a $5m MMO with $195m worth of VO work.

 

Word.

[archifikoss]

I'd rather have more story and less MMO tbh.

 

Me too But I'm content so far. Having fun and hoping my RL buddy's life will settle down so he can get the game and we can level some characters together!

[Hawk-Firestorm]

I do agree the games in serious trouble not from bug not form pvp problems but from it's appauling design.

 

The server layout that creates low populations where you have 1-2 people on a entire planet, that's NOT a MMO.

 

All the MMO aspects are missing totally, and if Bioware doesn't get to grips with sorting this games base framework out as a priority its dead, prolly in a year or perhaps even less.

 

Every design element of a good MMO that binds people together and achieve things together and encourages the social aspect of a MMO, are nigh on totally absent.

 

And while people will go the distance for bug patches etc, they won't put up with a MMO, where the MMO is missing.

 

The base framework just isn't there, right now its that not content not bug fixes (although nice) that needs to get sorted the quickest.

[TheSwamper]

I'd rather have more story and less MMO tbh.

 

Same here. Every planet I complete I wind up abandoning all my 4man heroics, and most of my 2mans.

 

I'd love to see missions scalable, so that most of them can be taken on solo or by groups.

 

I'd love to see more story, with alternate paths for each class.

 

More story, with the ability to go from light side to dark or the reverse.

 

More story, with races actually having a bearing on it.

[RealCatmanDoes]

hmm yeah it does feel like Mass Effect in co-op. I like this game but there's no real reason or advantage to group up or be in a guild.

 

You could do more on the ship in Mass Effect, it didn't feature an hyper-annoying droid and need 4 loading screens to get from planet to ship.

 

 

However I'm just wearing out my keyboard here, no one who can do anything about the game will actually read this.

[StonySpider]

Spacebar, Spacebar, Spacebar, Spacebar, hover mouse on 1, if netral click 1, Spacebar, Spacebar, Spacebar, Spacebar, if blue or red find the appropriate response for your toon and done.

 

I really don't think you're playing the right game then, my friend.

[Arkerus]

Silly armchair developers.

 

You don't have to trade anything for something else. Its not like they are going to cut out the story and just add a bunch of player housing or dancing or whatever it is you sandbox people like.

[Kringlorr]

Why would you pick up a Bioware game if you don't like dialogue?

[Aleeha]

I'll bet the people who are against the OP's post which is a good one and has been posted previously, rage and scream and slam down their keyboards when they get just a worded quest in their ship for space combat or from dailies.

 

That has just got to really cheese these people off that BW didn't make every single aspect of this game a VO.

 

There are many quests which really just do not require a VO as they're just a simple kill and gather planet quest. The VO ads nothing to the story line or the immersion of the game. It is a "feature" not a "requirement" and things like this are what's hurt this game.

 

It seems at times that the project managements forgot what were "requirements" and what were "features" and focused on the latter.

 

Other MMO's I can create a level 1 character and instantly be involved with almost the entire world, going anywhere I want and exploring. I am not constrained to specific planet paths. I am not totally phased out from everyone else. I am not just speaking about WoW, there are plenty of other MMOs like this on the market currently.

 

SWTOR tells a great story, it could use a bit of tweaking in how it tells the story so that players who want the MMO feel can get it but still offer players who want more of an RPG can have that too. There's a balance here which can be reached and it won't kill either side.

[Arkerus]

I'll bet the people who are against the OP's post which is a good one and has been posted previously, rage and scream and slam down their keyboards when they get just a worded quest in their ship for space combat or from dailies.

 

That has just got to really cheese these people off that BW didn't make every single aspect of this game a VO.

 

There are many quests which really just do not require a VO as they're just a simple kill and gather planet quest. The VO ads nothing to the story line or the immersion of the game. It is a "feature" not a "requirement" and things like this are what's hurt this game.

 

It seems at times that the project managements forgot what were "requirements" and what were "features" and focused on the latter.

 

Other MMO's I can create a level 1 character and instantly be involved with almost the entire world, going anywhere I want and exploring. I am not constrained to specific planet paths. I am not totally phased out from everyone else. I am not just speaking about WoW, there are plenty of other MMOs like this on the market currently.

 

SWTOR tells a great story, it could use a bit of tweaking in how it tells the story so that players who want the MMO feel can get it but still offer players who want more of an RPG can have that too. There's a balance here which can be reached and it won't kill either side.

 

Then this isn't the game for you.

 

Oh and BTW, you have no idea what was on their requirements documents so I don't think you can even comment on that.

 

This is a themepark MMO. You are directed for a good portion of it. If you don't like it its easy to quit. Unless of course you don't want to quit...but since you seem to hate this game so much I don't know whats stopping you.

 

Who knows whats coming in the future but this isn't SWG. I feel bad for bioware that their forums are flooded with sandbox drones who want every MMO to be a partial sandbox. This isn't that type of game.

 

Yeah...Bioware might add some major changes in the future but for now this is what we have. Personally, I'll take it. I'm glad I don't have an MMO where I am constantly guessing where to go, grinding out pointless skills, etc. I don't give 2 galactic craps about sandbox and exploration qualities. I need some space and a sword. I am good.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Arkerus