Don't ding 50! The pvp is much better 10-49.

[Ghamsar]

I know what you mean, but thats only because bolster does jack to the lvl 10's who are fighting you.

 

 

as a level 12 Gunslinger....I was destroying people with aimed shot. hitting people for 4400+, it got lower as I leveled higher.

 

I have hard times with low level Melee Jedi, but an easier time versus the 30-45 melee jedi(I forget their names)

 

 

Bolster evens things out for the most part.....it's way easier to have a lvl 12 in all level 12 gear, than to have a level 48 all in level 48 gear.

[hulkweazel]

as a level 12 Gunslinger....I was destroying people with aimed shot. hitting people for 4400+, it got lower as I leveled higher.

 

I have hard times with low level Melee Jedi, but an easier time versus the 30-45 melee jedi(I forget their names)

 

 

Bolster evens things out for the most part.....it's way easier to have a lvl 12 in all level 12 gear, than to have a level 48 all in level 48 gear.

Level 12s don't have earpieces, implants, or relics. Bolster also doesn't do crap for lack of abilities or talents.

[Ceasaigh]

Which roughly translates into - I can't cut it at 50.

 

 

 

So are you honestly saying that a fresh 50 with sub 100 Expertise CAN cut it against a 650+ fully geared battle master?

 

 

What makes 10-49 war zones fun is the gear advantage is a non issue. There is a great debate right now over expertise and gear. Those that have it have an advantage over those that don't, and while the gear is attainable by all, there is still a gap between no expertise and 700 expertise.

 

As long as there is expertise in this game no one can legitimately claim that PvP is based 100% on skill alone. Because as long as there is a stat that gives you an advantage over those that don't have it no one can claim 100% skill, not until all things are equal and that includes gear.

 

You can have all the skill in the world, be the most masterfully PvP'er in existence and if you have 100 experience and the other player has 650+ you don't stand a chance in hell.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Ceasaigh

[Mindsplitter]

I love how every newb thinks that expertise is the reason they cant beat someone.

 

Expertise has NOTHING to do with why you lose, NOTHING.

 

Let me repeat for you, EXPERTISE has NOTHING to do with why you lose.

 

If you go up against a full champ geared player and lose because he hit you harder fine you lost to gear. You will die just as fast if said person was in full Columi(sp?) gear. Justs as fast and while you may hit harder he has more health. Clearly its not expertise, its gear, this is a modern MMO and gear progression happens.

 

What? I just don't understand this post.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Mindsplitter

[Ceasaigh]

What can possible make one so delusional? Really. And your empirical data comes from your OPINION? So this guy runs around in his PvE gear facerolling all the BMs I guess. Rightttttt... Fail post is fail.

 

There delusional because people like having an advantage.

 

I have a fully geared Battlemaster Jedi Shadow and a Battlemaster fully champ geared Focus Guardian both with 650+ expertise, I can spot a fresh 50 as soon as he starts to hit me, he does little to no damage and I simply destroy him in one rotation.

 

 

Expertise does give an advantage over people who don't have it. Util you get 300+ its very hard to compete with those that have 600+.

 

Now once you get the gear it does balance out, but there in lies the problem. Until you get it your at a disadvantage.

 

Again 10-49 doesn't suffer from this problem. As long as you stay on level with your gear you are competitive through out the bracket.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Ceasaigh

[Sevvy]

I hit 50 2 nights ago on my Sentinel. I have full 124 or higher gear, over 15k HP, and am now working on PvP gear. I win a lot of games, and although I get destroyed by Battlemasters that are good, I hold my own. Once I'm full Battlemaster, I'll be king of the bracket again.

 

Hitting level 50 is like starting over again. It's not the end of the world. At least you have a goal to work towards since gear is the only thing that matters in this game.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Sevvy

[Ceasaigh]

why do people complain about expertise? full rakata gear would beat you just as bad

 

 

Where is your proof?

 

Show me a fully Rataka decked out player going against a Fully geared Battlemaster with max 700 expertise.

 

Expertise increases the amount of damage and healing you do as well as reduces the amount of damage you take in PvP combat

 

The Rataka geared player has Zero Expertise the BM has 700. You can't compare the two.

 

Expertise gives you a reduction of incoming damage from other players. So right off the bat I have the advantage over you. A percentage of your damage is being negated while you're receiving full damage.

 

Please don't argue that Expertise doesn't give an advantage doing so makes you look silly.

 

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/

Edited April 6, 2012 by Ceasaigh

[hulkweazel]

So are you honestly saying that a fresh 50 with sub 100 Expertise CAN cut it against a 650+ fully geared battle master?

 

 

What makes 10-49 war zones fun is the gear advantage is a non issue. There is a great debate right now over expertise and gear. Those that have it have an advantage over those that don't, and while the gear is attainable by all, there is still a gap between no expertise and 700 expertise.

 

As long as there is expertise in this game no one can legitimately claim that PvP is based 100% on skill alone. Because as long as there is a stat that gives you an advantage over those that don't have it no one can claim 100% skill, not until all things are equal and that includes gear.

 

You can have all the skill in the world, be the most masterfully PvP'er in existence and if you have 100 experience and the other player has 650+ you don't stand a chance in hell.

No, it isn't 100% skill based. You have to play Medal of Honor or Halo 3 for that.

 

It IS, however, a whole-lot more skill based than 10-49. People who argue otherwise are trying to delude themselves into thinking their competition is tougher than it really is.

 

Gear is still an issue. Level 10s do not have implants, relics, or earpieces. They also have a paltry amount of abilities and talents. Not only that, but most level 10-49 players are just looking to level quickly and PvP on the side, meaning they aren't anywhere close to being optimized for PvP.

 

If you enjoy 10-49 more, that's fine. Just stop deluding yourself that the PvP there is better. It's really not.

[Ceasaigh]

No, it isn't 100% skill based. You have to play Medal of Honor or Halo 3 for that.

 

It IS, however, a whole-lot more skill based than 10-49. People who argue otherwise are trying to delude themselves into thinking their competition is tougher than it really is.

 

Gear is still an issue. Level 10s do not have implants, relics, or earpieces. They also have a paltry amount of abilities and talents. Not only that, but most level 10-49 players are just looking to level quickly and PvP on the side, meaning they aren't anywhere close to being optimized for PvP.

 

If you enjoy 10-49 more, that's fine. Just stop deluding yourself that the PvP there is better. It's really not.

 

I disagree

 

At level 10 with bolster I was competitive with level 40's. I'm not saying that I would beat them every time. But I felt I had a chance. As I git into my 30's then it became skill as I had most of my abilities and as long as my gear was on level I could kill level 40's and felt pretty much even with them.

 

Expertise is why they removed 50's from the 10-49 bracket.

 

Look SWTOR is what it is. There is expertise in the game. I have it on my toons and I use it, same as everyone else. But people need to stop claiming that it's all skill that wins them in a War zone. Yes coordination and team work wins hands down and that takes skill. Having 650+ expertise going against sup 300 expertise is not skill.

[Kai-Eurah-Tird]

If you enjoy watching your team mates run around the warzone like headless chickens, then stay in 10-49.

[Sevvy]

No, it isn't 100% skill based. You have to play Medal of Honor or Halo 3 for that.

 

It IS, however, a whole-lot more skill based than 10-49. People who argue otherwise are trying to delude themselves into thinking their competition is tougher than it really is.

 

Gear is still an issue. Level 10s do not have implants, relics, or earpieces. They also have a paltry amount of abilities and talents. Not only that, but most level 10-49 players are just looking to level quickly and PvP on the side, meaning they aren't anywhere close to being optimized for PvP.

 

If you enjoy 10-49 more, that's fine. Just stop deluding yourself that the PvP there is better. It's really not.

 

It's a different experience. It's fun. But it's not better.

[Organikal]

Where is your proof?

 

Show me a fully Rataka decked out player going against a Fully geared Battlemaster with max 700 expertise.

 

 

 

The Rataka geared player has Zero Expertise the BM has 700. You can't compare the two.

 

Expertise gives you a reduction of incoming damage from other players. So right off the bat I have the advantage over you. A percentage of your damage is being negated while you're receiving full damage.

 

Please don't argue that Expertise doesn't give an advantage doing so makes you look silly.

 

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/

 

You're wrong. I have both a full set of BM and Rakata gear and my numbers are significantly better with the Rakata gear. And even better if I get my 10% expertise with BM gear and then stack the rest in Rakata for the raw stats. Rakata gear has significantly more Endurance on it (the difference between having over 10% expertise or using that same gear for Rakata raw stats tips very much in Rakata gear favor)

The "real" way to do it is to have your 10% bonus from Expertise and then stack up on PvE gear fro your bonuses. This, from what I've seen, only applied to DPS classes since healers "double dip" from expertise (trama debuff I know)

[Dudious]

10-49 PvP is kind of like the girl on the side... you have your steady relationship which is great, and provides you with pretty much everything you are looking for.

 

But sometimes you just need to go crazy for a few days so you try out something that is much more shallow, very selfish, and not particularly rewarding. It's fun for a few times, but it gets old really quickly because as I said, it's shallow.

 

 

I'm not an ***, I swear...

[atreyuz]

I enjoy my level 50 pvp. Because I don't suck.

 

this.

[Dudious]

You're wrong. I have both a full set of BM and Rakata gear and my numbers are significantly better with the Rakata gear. And even better if I get my 10% expertise with BM gear and then stack the rest in Rakata for the raw stats. Rakata gear has significantly more Endurance on it (the difference between having over 10% expertise or using that same gear for Rakata raw stats tips very much in Rakata gear favor)

The "real" way to do it is to have your 10% bonus from Expertise and then stack up on PvE gear fro your bonuses. This, from what I've seen, only applied to DPS classes since healers "double dip" from expertise (trama debuff I know)

 

Healer's don't double dip. Any player that receives heals "double dips" due to the fact that mitigation makes any HP you have - through total HP pool, healing, or potions - more effective.

 

In short, solo-queuing as a DPS where you don't expect to get heals... yes, mix in PvE gear. If you are queuing with a healer buddy and can expect regular heals then you typically want o go full expertise.

[Exilim]

If you enjoy watching your team mates run around the warzone like headless chickens, then stay in 10-49.

 

yep I find the 10-49 bracket much more annoying. I've done some pretty amazing things when I queue with a healer buddy. Other than those instances low level pvp is an exercise in frustration.

 

also seems like the Republic side has the true newbies playing while the Imperial side has the experienced rerollers. It sometimes takes a tremendous personal effort to get a victory.

[Organikal]

 

In short, solo-queuing as a DPS where you don't expect to get heals... yes, mix in PvE gear. If you are queuing with a healer buddy and can expect regular heals then you typically want o go full expertise.

 

What's the logic? Math please. You will see you are backwards.

[mordredz]

Seriously when you hit 49 just stop leveling, stop questing, stop doing flashpoints and quit warzones just before they end, this way you can stay 49 forever.

 

Why you don't want to ding 50:

- Ilum is terrible

- Warzone queues take ages to pop.

- Kids in full bm/champ gear run around nearly invincible farming new 50's thinking that their op expertise gear=skill.

- You don't have to worry about stupid fail rng bags.

- You will be the king of the 10-49 bracket.

 

The pvp's not better, you just have Great gear rockin 14k hp and have 99% of your abilities, basicly the skill you lack is made up with gear, bads...

[Dudious]

What's the logic? Math please. You will see you are backwards.

 

Instead of going back and forth explaining, re-explaining with numbers and fully fleshed-out concepts I'm just going to say...

 

If you are going to consistently take damage, and consistently be healed you need to prioritize mitigation. The exception being if your sole purpose is max burst; but if that's the case, you probably aren't going to consistently take and and consistently need heals.

 

I'd rather log in and play now.

[MOAI]

I am not a fan of the expertise stat, but it is in the game so I can live with it. My problem with most of the PvP gear is that it is really ugly. I know 1.2 will fix that, but I refuse to wear anything that I think is ugly. The jedi gear is too flashy and gaudy, the trooper gear looks stupid with the spikes, and as a smuggler I am not a super hero or Zorro, I am a smuggler and do not want to stand out. I personally do not like capes or long coats on my characters and there are not enough plain pants and short jackets or shirts that are available in the PvP gear. Level 50 PvP reminds me of a circus with a bunch of clowns running around fighting and saying look how ugly my clothes are. It is sad when low levels look better than high levels.

[Infalliable]

I hit 50 around late dec and I could get myself some champ pieces before the bracket patch. My friend on the other hand just recently hit 50 he enjoyed 10-49 pvp but level 50 pvp he can't do jack squat. I went over to his place to watch him play a few pvp matches he is a sniper and he is hitting people for 600-850 damage. If he crits he only does 1200 damage and this is when shooting at geared sorcs.

 

Oh and his orbital strike only does 800 damage on geared 50's lets just say it was sad to watch him get eaten alive by geared 50's critting him for 3-4k and doing almost 1000 damage per tick on enemies channel spells.

 

Heck when I see new 50's I eat them alive I DON'T FIND THIS FUN. Its not fun stomping people who can barely fight back. Hopefully when the new patch hits new 50's can now have a chance in pvp but as it is now? It sucks for new level 50's and its sad to see people are denying it and are enjoying stomping people who can't even fight back.

 

I don't find it fun and if all you enjoy doing is stomping people without gear in pvp then In my opinion you suck big time. This is a problem in my opinion and this is something bioware should look at I think the new patch is going in the right direction.

 

I had this exact experience at hitting 50.

 

Even as a sniper with a significant number of daily mods, I had a hard time even getting the 2.5k hit medal. I'd have to pop relics and hope for a crit on a squishy. Meanwhile, everyone hits you for 3-4k a shot.

 

Not that my gear was great at that point, but it's amazing how bad you are compared to someone with BM gear.

 

------------

 

It's not just the expertise stat that makes the difference. It's just a compounding issue. Expertise only comes on gear that is better to begin with, so it's just adding more to the stat imbalance.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Infalliable

[Organikal]

Instead of going back and forth explaining, re-explaining with numbers and fully fleshed-out concepts I'm just going to say...

 

If you are going to consistently take damage, and consistently be healed you need to prioritize mitigation. The exception being if your sole purpose is max burst; but if that's the case, you probably aren't going to consistently take and and consistently need heals.

 

I'd rather log in and play now.

 

OK... so you think that having more expertise makes you easier to heal (this is after the 10% when diminishing returns kicks in). Therefore someone with 460 expertise/stacking Rakata so that you have about 1500-2000 more hit points than me in my 700ish expertise gear makes me (700 expertise) more heal-able?

 

So, what you are saying is that ~4% more damage reduction is better than 1500-2000 hit points? I hate to break it to you but having ~1000 more hit points is better than 4% damage reduction, any more than that is bonus.

[Ceasaigh]

What's the logic? Math please. You will see you are backwards.

 

Did you read the graph at this website?

 

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/

 

 

It will give you all the math you need.

 

At 300 expertise I'm doing 7.03 percent more damage than you and taking 7.03% less damage than you in full Rataka gear with 0 expertise. I'm not talking about the mix and match BM/Champ Rataka gear here. I'm talking strictly 700 expertise versus 0 Expertise.

 

In PvP gear with the 700 Expertise I have a significant advantage over any one not matching my expertise because I do more damage and mitigate more damage from player damage.

 

While a Rataka clad player in PvP may have more damage that damage is negated by my expertise and you take full damage from me.

 

 

Now if you mix and match like I do as well then you can start to argue that mixing the PvE gear and PvP gear has it's advantages. I think it does and I wear 2 pieces of the Rataka gear on my Guardian who still has around 524 expertise.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Ceasaigh

[islander]

Aka, your level 49 and able to win because you face people anywhere from 10-30 levels below you so you think your good. You then hit 50 and realize your terrible and qq on the forums.

 

This! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Pekish]

lvl 1-49 is only "better" if there are 8 people lvl 11-30 vs 8 people lvl 11-30 because there is way way way way way less CC and the fight is more fluid plus nobody will ever hit you for "HALF OF YOUR LIFE" because everybody will have between 13000-14000 life and nobody ever hit for 5000/6000 they dont have final blow skill and max damage is around 3000 exepct rare occasion of "lucky" crit that happen lot less since nobody really has much CRIT on the gear

 

 

so lets see

 

LESS CC

LESS DAMAGE/CRITS

MORE LIFE

 

it's actually is better for FUN plus way way way LESS PREMADE make it all more balanced from a pug point of view

and balanced PVP is more FUN is always been even if premade at lvl 50 think fun is fight noobs and fear other premade

 

but what the OP is saying, beeing lvl49 vs lvl20, it's only beeing a jerks

Edited April 6, 2012 by Pekish