THIS is SO TRUE !

[russellcsf]

thats a spot on video. I also unsubbed 1 day ago and will keep tuned to possible significant pvp changes. Tho, i remain skeptical about it happening.

 

Oh yeah, forgot to say that it's a spot on video except for the "wow is too great part" . I'm talking about his TOR criticism.

Edited January 29, 2012 by russellcsf

[Noctournys]

At this point SWTOR has more features than vanilla after 1 year. But less features than first expansion.

 

The balance problems in battlegrounds and world PVP is far worse than it was in WoW ever. The tarren mill zergs that came with the title farming was much better than Ilum is today.

 

I see you never played a: Hunter, Warlock or Paladin (in the Vanilla PVP you claim to love). Trust me, this game's balance p roblems are NOTHING compared to Vanilaa WoW's PvP problems.. and i wouldn't say WoW has made a ton of headway, either. Some, yes, but even now the WoW PvP balance problems are no worse or better than this games.

 

But the breaking point for many was that the game engine WoW is on was working much better than Hero engine does. And it was working much better in the WoW beta than what we have today in SWTOR.

 

This is so flagrantly false it almost threatens to make the blood come out of my eyes from reading it. At the time it launched, WoW on high settings with draw distance all the way up would reduce top-end gaming rigs to sub 1fps.

 

During beta, before the last two rounds of optimizations, you didnt even need to be on high settings. WoW runs great now because the core engine is 9 years old with 8 years of tuning and optimization... and extremely low poly. (Which is not to say it looks bad - it looks like Warcraft, and to me is a fine example of art direction > polycount; doesn't change the fact that that is why it runs so good, though).

 

Tarren Mill/Southshore was a sub 1fps slideshow an all but the beefiest rigs. When AV launched, even 40v40 would bring framerates down to sub-30fps on the beefiest machines.. if you added in NPCs (Reivers/Wolf Riders/Lok)... right down to Tarren Mill levels of performance.

 

to this day the game is STILL heavily CPU bound and piggy in large-player areas. Flying into Org on a (Westmere Hexacore i7 @ 3.06 Ghz, Radeon 5870, 12 GB of FB-DDR3) beefy rig still produced a sub-1fps slideshow as the GPU starves because the CPU cant supply it with information on 400 players fast enough.

[Shruk]

I still dont get the mentality to post that you dont like a product in the products forum. To get feedback from others who dont like the game?

 

I mean, discussing problems is just fine but just stating that you dont have fun and dont like it isnt really something you need to share, isnt it?

 

You wouldnt post a thread in the Mercedes forum stating that you dont like their cars. Why would anyone do that?

Edited January 29, 2012 by Shruk

[Toxsicking]

I still dont get the mentality to post that you dont like a product in the products forum. To get feedback from others who dont like the game?

 

I mean, discussing problems is just fine but just stating that you dont have fun and dont like it isnt really something you need to share, isnt it?

 

You wouldnt post a thread in the Mercedes forum stating that you dont like their cars. Why would anyone do that?

 

Mercedes... Lol

 

gimme BMW.

[Marmerus]

I see you never played a: Hunter, Warlock or Paladin (in the Vanilla PVP you claim to love). Trust me, this game's balance p roblems are NOTHING compared to Vanilaa WoW's PvP problems.. and i wouldn't say WoW has made a ton of headway, either. Some, yes, but even now the WoW PvP balance problems are no worse or better than this games.

Nice that you mentioned it. Hunters were fine but had a very high skill cap. You needed to time things right if you wanted to win against other classes in one on one.

My main was a warlock and when we got terror effect (not fear) on death coil we pretty much dominated the PVP scene. Before that we were under powered.

 

Did you play vanilla at all?

[akunamatata]

the people is always complaining that the game is new , and when wow released it was pretty terrible too , but that was 8 years ago , and people was ready to w8 , now people arent expecting bad games.

 

just giving you one example , if you go buy a new car and it only can reach 10km/h max speed you ll be pretty disapointed and say that car is **** , but then i ll say to you" what is happening, 50 years ago , the cars are like that".

 

now when you buy something you are expecting it will be in pair with how the other cars are atm , so i need to compare swtor to how WOW is atm , and not how wow was at 8years ago!!

 

i am not expecting they to fix 1000MILLION BUGS in 1 week , i am not expecting they change a whole world pvp in 1 week , i expected that all that stuffs come to us already ok when game realised

[Marmerus]

I see you never played a: Hunter, Warlock or Paladin (in the Vanilla PVP you claim to love). Trust me, this game's balance p roblems are NOTHING compared to Vanilaa WoW's PvP problems.. and i wouldn't say WoW has made a ton of headway, either. Some, yes, but even now the WoW PvP balance problems are no worse or better than this games.

 

 

 

This is so flagrantly false it almost threatens to make the blood come out of my eyes from reading it. At the time it launched, WoW on high settings with draw distance all the way up would reduce top-end gaming rigs to sub 1fps.

 

During beta, before the last two rounds of optimizations, you didnt even need to be on high settings. WoW runs great now because the core engine is 9 years old with 8 years of tuning and optimization... and extremely low poly. (Which is not to say it looks bad - it looks like Warcraft, and to me is a fine example of art direction > polycount; doesn't change the fact that that is why it runs so good, though).

 

Tarren Mill/Southshore was a sub 1fps slideshow an all but the beefiest rigs. When AV launched, even 40v40 would bring framerates down to sub-30fps on the beefiest machines.. if you added in NPCs (Reivers/Wolf Riders/Lok)... right down to Tarren Mill levels of performance.

 

to this day the game is STILL heavily CPU bound and piggy in large-player areas. Flying into Org on a (Westmere Hexacore i7 @ 3.06 Ghz, Radeon 5870, 12 GB of FB-DDR3) beefy rig still produced a sub-1fps slideshow as the GPU starves because the CPU cant supply it with information on 400 players fast enough.

Im on a 3930k @ 4.7 with 32gb ram and dual 6970. I don't have any problems playing WoW at 5760x1080. Did not even have problems running WoW with my Q6600 or back in vanilla with my thunderbird.

 

So I guess you have much spyware or not configured your computer right.

[Cypan]

Couldn't have explained this better myself.

[Citazen]

Watched your video and your point about whoever brings the most people to Illum is the biggest reason why I myself am going to quit as soon as something else comes out, your server at least in your video has a decent amount of both, at least 95% of all the other ones are just giant Imp zerg fest , 10:1 odds on average, and then your throw dailes at us (Republic) that require us to throw ourselves to the wolves in the hopes of getting our daily done, my DAILY takes over a week and my weekly is going to be over a month at this point and ohh yeah I have INVIS and I still can grab boxes there are so many cockroaches (Imps) on Illum that even with invisibility you cant stealth around there and snag a box except maybe one every 30 min and if you DO manage to grab one you are proboly gonna die cuz chances are 20 people saw you pop out for a sec and are just gonna AOE the whole planet till they find you , then its CC lock and death. So HOWEVER frusterating it is for your particular class as a IMP just remember as a Republic the pvp is almost unplayable and when you get Huttball que for the 50th time in a row and wonder why none of the others pop, you can thank yourselves for driving every last Jedi to the darkside congratulations.

[Noctournys]

Nice that you mentioned it. Hunters were fine but had a very high skill cap. You needed to time things right if you wanted to win against other classes in one on one.

My main was a warlock and when we got terror effect (not fear) on death coil we pretty much dominated the PVP scene. Before that we were under powered.

 

Did you play vanilla at all?

 

I guess my question would be: did you?

 

I played wow from the original beta all the way through cataclysm; opted out post firelands.

 

The deathcoil change was not some "iWin button" - against classes that warlocks had few problems with in the first place (Hunters, Shamans, Mages) it made the situation even worse and more unfair, and aganst classes that warlocks got kicked by -

 

Warriors, Rogues, priests with a pulse..

 

it accomplished almost nothing. It was three seconds to get off...

 

what?

 

And oh yeah.. TEN MINUTE COOLDOWN. Wasn't reduced to 2 minutes until almost a year later. And the change wasnt introduced in the first place for almost 10 months.

 

Hunters were free kills for any class with a pulse.. Paladins were even worse, unless they were super-geared-ret... and then they were basically a really bad warrior that you could mana-drain into uselessness... without MS.

 

I remember vanilla quite well, thanks.

[Noctournys]

Im on a 3930k @ 4.7 with 32gb ram and dual 6970. I don't have any problems playing WoW at 5760x1080. Did not even have problems running WoW with my Q6600 or back in vanilla with my thunderbird.

 

So I guess you have much spyware or not configured your computer right.

 

less than 30 processess running in WIndows, so, no.

 

Im just going to flat out say: you're lying. Ill leave it at that.

[EternalFinality]

The deathcoil change was not some "iWin button" - against classes that warlocks had few problems with in the first place (Hunters, Shamans, Mages) it made the situation even worse and more unfair, and aganst classes that warlocks got kicked by -

 

Warriors, Rogues, priests with a pulse..

 

it accomplished almost nothing. It was three seconds to get off...

 

what?

 

And oh yeah.. TEN MINUTE COOLDOWN. Wasn't reduced to 2 minutes until almost a year later. And the change wasnt introduced in the first place for almost 10 months.

 

Seriously, anyone who thinks otherwise go back and watch World of Roguecraft Episode 2 if you don't remember how things were.

[Brzytwa]

they will soon close this thread unformtuanately.. that is so true. YEAH.... CLOSE IT AND BAN EVERYONE YOU F* ... oh I forgot. remove cancel button again, oh is it still missing, isn't it?

[doombomb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnKYF_ZZQDE&feature=g-all-u&context=G280e043FAAAAAAAAAAA

 

Herp WoW > Swtor?

 

The kid seemed intelligent and really disappointed that Swtor isn't WoW, but to each his own.

 

edit,

I quit WoW in Cata after the AMAZING Wotlk because, guess what, it wasn't balanced. RDruids were garbage, Rshamans were gods. Niche specs, like prot, were killed. Mutilate rogues were pve only, destro locks were weaker than ice lance spamming mages, who in frost specs were also gods.

 

WoW was great, and Mists does look great, but currently Swtor is better. It just lacks the competitive environment that WoW Arena had.

Edited January 29, 2012 by doombomb

[RealAeiouy]

Watched your video and your point about whoever brings the most people to Illum is the biggest reason why I myself am going to quit as soon as something else comes out, your server at least in your video has a decent amount of both, at least 95% of all the other ones are just giant Imp zerg fest , 10:1 odds on average, and then your throw dailes at us (Republic) that require us to throw ourselves to the wolves in the hopes of getting our daily done, my DAILY takes over a week and my weekly is going to be over a month at this point and ohh yeah I have INVIS and I still can grab boxes there are so many cockroaches (Imps) on Illum that even with invisibility you cant stealth around there and snag a box except maybe one every 30 min and if you DO manage to grab one you are proboly gonna die cuz chances are 20 people saw you pop out for a sec and are just gonna AOE the whole planet till they find you , then its CC lock and death. So HOWEVER frusterating it is for your particular class as a IMP just remember as a Republic the pvp is almost unplayable and when you get Huttball que for the 50th time in a row and wonder why none of the others pop, you can thank yourselves for driving every last Jedi to the darkside congratulations.

 

 

Open world pvp has always been and always will be about who has the most people. That is why objective based open world pvp is a bad idea in modern day mmogs. Nothing you can do to fix it. Once you control it, it becomes just a large Warzone or battleground.

 

Getting upset that the bigger team dominates open world illum is like complaining the sun is bright.

[akunamatata]

 

WoW was great, and Mists does look great, but currently Swtor is better. It just lacks the competitive environment that WoW Arena had.

 

swtor is really far from a balance environment for arenas, or anything else that is skill class based , and not objective based

[doombomb]

swtor is really far from a balance environment for arenas, or anything else that is skill class based , and not objective based

 

I agree. But the competitive environment is where BW can really look to refine what needs to be done (IMO, stuns need nefs!). In addition to combat logs. I just feel it's closer to balance than Cata is.

[Cypan]

They need to read this thread and actually take note, and implement fixes in a timely manner. At least announce that they're working on specific things. Like they did for ability delay.

[Lexhorn]

Bioware executives should watch this movie and learn.

 

I stopped when he said (at 3:20 on the video) that : "Warcraft is perfect, in WoW, Pvp Balance is sooo polished"

 

....

I lolled, WoW has the most PvP unbalance in the MMO industry.

 

Bioware executive will probably stop also at 3:20 ....

 

Also, he is comparing with WoW a game released one month ago (same think that the kids are doing here).

 

WoW was unplayable et release, Raids were not implemented, and skills bugged, it made the PvP totally broken.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Lexhorn

[Kitsummerisle]

Lol, the warzones have just as many imba's in them as arena would, expect you can't control them imba's you're just stuck with random classes to go at it with.

 

I don't think it's fair to compare this game with WoW, Blizzard makes some really good games. How many games to they have that are played extremely competitive? Most be doing something right. SC2 World Wide played every day for large $ pools. That's just SC2

[Noctournys]

I stopped when he said (at 3:20 on the video) that : "Warcraft is perfect, in WoW, Pvp Balance is sooo polished"

 

....

I lolled, WoW has the most PvP unbalance in the MMO industry.

 

Bioware executive will probably stop also at 3:20 ....

 

Also, he is comparing with WoW a game released one month ago (same think that the kids are doing here).

 

WoW was unplayable et release, Raids were not implemented, and skills bugged, it made the PvP totally broken.

 

Ive seen a lot of people posting some variant of this phrase:

 

"it doesn't matter that SWTOR was just released, it matters that WoW has those things now, and SWTOR is competing with WoW now!" followed by "SWTOR shouldn't have released until it could compete with everything WoW has".

 

Realism, it is your friend kids.

 

Lets understand MMO development:

 

Without exception, really, the first 3-5 years of MMO development are basic engine, systems, and content creation. I mean basic. Building all of the geometry for the giant world(s), basic systems like code for rolling to hit and stuff like that - not advanced systems like the UI. Basic stuff.

 

The next year or two are spent putting polish passes on the content, adding second tier content (quests!), and advanced systems (the UI, chat systems, etc).

 

Maybe the last year (if a game is allowed to go 7 years in development) is spent on PvP concerns, class-numbers-balance (like dps) and stuff like that. Probably more like the last six months.

 

Sometimes, it's not too hard to incorporate something another game has done (a moddable UI interface, for instance, would not have added a lot of development overhead) and incorporate it into yours... sometimes it just cant be done, because it takes man-hours, sometimes man-years, to add that stuff, because it isnt something you can just slap on - it is built on top of layers and layers of other systems. There's no shortcut around it. If you didnt take steps A-S, you cant take Step T, no matter what.

 

A lot of the stuff people are asking for, or assume that SWTOR should have had at launch (like, apparently, 8+ raids with 5 difficulty modes) are things that just take more development time.

 

"Well then they should have kept it in development until it was DONE!"

 

well, two things about that:

 

firstly, Blizzard isn't sitting still. Theyre going to have the same number of man hours. months, or years, to continue adding to WoW. So in another year, if SWTOR had stayed in development and added al ot of the stuff people want, theyd just be ************ that SWTOR didn't have the things that Blizzard just added.

 

There's no way around that.

 

secondly, and more importantly - so important that im going to break a personal pet peeve and underline, bold, and all-caps this crap:

 

SOFTWARE IS DEVELOPED IN A REAL-WORLD SCENARIO. GAMES LIKE SWTOR ARE DEVELOPED BY COMPANIES WITH A LOT OF INVESTORS AND INVESTMENT CAPITAL BEHIND THEM. IT IS THE ONLY WAY THE GAME CAN AFFORD TO GET MADE. THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE GAME ARE BEHOLDEN TO THESE SHAREHOLDERS AND INVESTORS FOR THEIR JOBS. PERIOD.

 

THERE IS NO COMPANY IN THE WORLD THAT IS JUST GOING TO KEEP A GAME IN DEVELOPMENT, ESPECIALLY AN MMO, FOR 11+ YEARS SO THAT IT CAN SHIP WITH EVERY FEATURE POSSIBLE AND LAUNCH WITH 22 TIERS OF RAIDING AND ENDLESS CONTENT.

 

IT SIMPLY WILL NOT HAPPEN.

 

TO QUOTE LIZARD:

There is no “done” in games like this. Nor is there bug-free. You release when the game is playable, or you do not release at all. For one thing, many bugs, especially balance issues or server issues, simply do not show up until there’s 200 thousand people playing for an extended period — and you cannot have an extended open beta for that many people, the cost is simply too much. In most cases, games are kept in development until the order comes down: Ship something, or look for new jobs. That’s the fact, and there’s really no hope of it changing any time soon.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Noctournys

[Kitsummerisle]

Wow, this video is right on the nail. I feel exactly the same as this guy, his reasons are the same reason why I unsub'd.

 

It's funny the only reason I'm still around is because my guy is Bmaster and my friend gave me his wifes gamecard because he says he can't handle the game unless we play together and he signed up for the 60 days.

[Synxos]

Best start..."I've been thinking of making this for a long time now."

One month after release....

 

/facepalm

[Kitsummerisle]

Lol, I know right.

[Orlylol]

I agree with every single word of this video.

 

they should fix that, i love swtor but really am done with this crap. playing as Rep in Ilum is a joke pvp bags are annoying.

 

every thing in this game force me to quit while i try my best to enjoy the game.

 

and yes am bored of wow and other games that's why am playing swtor to give it a try but swtor will get smashed out with MOP or GW2. period

 

my opinion no offense