Request: Sentinel Love in Tuesday's Patch

[ProfessorWalsh]

BioWare:

 

The Combat Spec of the Jedi Sentinel still lacks in PVP. There is no push, no pull, and no stun (save for the one which is channeled and thus does not allow us to capitalize on it) currently in the Combat build.

 

The Watchman does well because it has better synergy, nail an enemy with an Overload Saber and a heavy burn attack then use Force Stasis. This has amazing synergy.

 

The Focus spec does well because of the amazingly high damage it can turn out as well as the extra CC mitigation (immunity to CC after Force Leap!) it grants.

 

The Combat spec doesn't have really high burst (one adrenal enhanced OS to MS from Watchman and they deal out almost 6000 damage.) and it doesn't have mobility (like we were told it would have, if anything Focus has far more mobility). It isn't horrible but it needs a little love.

 

We (and our Marauder cousins) are already one of the lowest pop classes in the game. You focused on buffing the Guardian, which was okay, but we needed it just as much, if not more, than they did.

[PjPablo]

class forum

[ProfessorWalsh]

class forum

 

Oops.

 

Had multiple windows open. Crud, if a mod sees this can it be moved? Thanks.

[frigidclam]

BioWare:

 

There is no push, no pull, and no stun

 

they should do that to everyclass. Its annoying when pvp it just...Knock him off...stun him in the fire....pull him in the poison and stun him....

[Khryn]

they should do that to everyclass. Its annoying when pvp it just...Knock him off...stun him in the fire....pull him in the poison and stun him....

 

 

 

LOL You must be an Imperial. Huttball sucks!

[FobManX]

Combat actually has pretty decent burst. The only problem is, Watchman's can be just as good while also having better sustained and more utility/tools. Combat should be buffed in other ways, like increasing it's Centering generation. All Sentinels in general should get more CC defenses as well, maybe make it so Rebuke grants us passive CC immunity.

 

I do agree that we need a Push or Pull. I'd prefer Push so I can actually knock enemies off ledges in Huttball and in PVE situations.

[Ravrohan]

I would like some kind of knockback with a knockdown effect. It could still be a melee attack, have a 30 second CD or whatever and not be that far a knockback, but something. When a flashpoint has to supply an item because it requires a mechanic that was left out of ONE class, it feels like something is wrong with the picture.

[nachoman_randy]

Combat actually has pretty decent burst. The only problem is, Watchman's can be just as good while also having better sustained and more utility/tools. Combat should be buffed in other ways, like increasing it's Centering generation. All Sentinels in general should get more CC defenses as well, maybe make it so Rebuke grants us passive CC immunity.

 

I do agree that we need a Push or Pull. I'd prefer Push so I can actually knock enemies off ledges in Huttball and in PVE situations.

 

I want pull.

[nachoman_randy]

BioWare:

 

The Combat Spec of the Jedi Sentinel still lacks in PVP. There is no push, no pull, and no stun (save for the one which is channeled and thus does not allow us to capitalize on it) currently in the Combat build.

 

The Watchman does well because it has better synergy, nail an enemy with an Overload Saber and a heavy burn attack then use Force Stasis. This has amazing synergy.

 

The Focus spec does well because of the amazingly high damage it can turn out as well as the extra CC mitigation (immunity to CC after Force Leap!) it grants.

 

The Combat spec doesn't have really high burst (one adrenal enhanced OS to MS from Watchman and they deal out almost 6000 damage.) and it doesn't have mobility (like we were told it would have, if anything Focus has far more mobility). It isn't horrible but it needs a little love.

 

We (and our Marauder cousins) are already one of the lowest pop classes in the game. You focused on buffing the Guardian, which was okay, but we needed it just as much, if not more, than they did.

 

Walsh... why the last couple of post are you talking only about combat? You named this thread: "sentinel love" but you only talk about combat....

[Helig]

BioWare:

 

The Combat Spec of the Jedi Sentinel still lacks in PVP. There is no push, no pull, and no stun (save for the one which is channeled and thus does not allow us to capitalize on it) currently in the Combat build. - If Sentinel had a full stun, it would be overkill. Nerf cries would be a lot harder than they are for Operatives. A baseline full root, however, I don't see as a huge threat to balance.

 

The Watchman does well because it has better synergy, nail an enemy with an Overload Saber and a heavy burn attack then use Force Stasis. This has amazing synergy. - Agree - I love Annihilation.

 

The Focus spec does well because of the amazingly high damage it can turn out as well as the extra CC mitigation (immunity to CC after Force Leap!) it grants. - You are confusing it with Vigilance. This gives the impression that you aren't entirely aware of what you're talking about.

 

The Combat spec doesn't have really high burst (one adrenal enhanced OS to MS from Watchman and they deal out almost 6000 damage.) and it doesn't have mobility (like we were told it would have, if anything Focus has far more mobility). It isn't horrible but it needs a little love. - You can clear snares with Camo, though - and you have a noticeable passive movement speed increase in Ataru. You also have Predation\Transcendence, but Centering\Fury stacking doesn't seem to be Combat's strong point.

 

We (and our Marauder cousins) are already one of the lowest pop classes in the game. You focused on buffing the Guardian, which was okay, but we needed it just as much, if not more, than they did. - They are the lowest-pop classes because they are arguably the hardest to play, and because of the few people who actually play them, even fewer know *how* to play them.

 

Walsh, I have both, a Guardian and a Marauder. And I love them both to bits.

 

My Marauder is specced Annihilation, and, by far, it is simply amazing. You were complaining about Combat aka Carnage, however, it serves a different niche, compared to Annihilation\Watchman. It's best for highly-organized premade groups, and my guildie Combat Sentinel is practically the best single-target assist one can dream of. Roots are absolutely amazing, and burst is quite sufficient under Precision.

 

You feel bad without stuns\knockbacks? That's probably because you're trying to "steal" another class' playstyle. Allow me to elaborate. The two Knight\Warrior ACs serve two drastically different purposes, no matter how obvious this may seem. It's pretty clear that the Guardian is the class that is supposed to be in the thick of it. All of its mechanics scream that. You charge in, do damage, take damage, toss people around, taunt, guard (if you're tank), aggressively use Awe, lay down pressure, while abusing your amazing mobility.

 

However, Sentinel is a very different beast. On my Marauder, I quickly found out that I'm not supposed to get into thick fighting - at least without a dedicated healer (with the healer, everyone's so damn scared of you that they dump all CC on you, filling your Resolve very quickly). Obviously, I found it the hard way. This made me rethink my strategy drastically. So instead of charging in, sabers blazing, I skirted the battlefield, cutting down support. Never pulled off crazy numbers like 500k damage\warzone this way (but I did get close when I had a dedicated healer and were a bit bolder - and I had rather unimpressive gear), but it was both, productive, and extremely fun. I also felt like I had enough cooldowns to survive thick melee, if such a need arose.

 

 

But I don't disagree that both ACs could use a bit of work (4\6 talent trees look like they're 3 builds old, scaling on some skills\talents is way off, etc, etc). However, I don't see the need for heavy buffs.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Helig

[-Arcane-]

The only change required for combat to be effective.

 

2 Point talent somewhere above 20pts in the Combat tree:

 

"Reduces channel duration on Force Stasis by 50% 0/2

 

This is a fair balance for Combat.

[Helig]

The only change required for combat to be effective.

 

2 Point talent somewhere above 20pts in the Combat tree:

 

"Reduces channel duration on Force Stasis by 50% 0/2

 

This is a fair balance for Combat.

 

Want a 12-second damage immunity bubble with that?

[-Arcane-]

You disagree? Combat dps is fine when they can actually hit the target, and atm FS is kinda low synergy for combat so...

[Helig]

You disagree? Combat dps is fine when they can actually hit the target, and atm FS is kinda low synergy for combat so...

 

I believe that, at least in PvP environment, Combat is more of a single target assist spec, not intended for a lot of independence.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Helig

[-Arcane-]

... And improving FS by removing the channel is gonna be gamebreaking? Not realy just makers it easier to solo with.

[Helig]

... And improving FS by removing the channel is gonna be gamebreaking? Not realy just makers it easier to solo with.

 

Myeah, I could agree with that, I suppose. Still, copying a Defense\Immortal talent from Guards and Juggernauts feels iffy. Although I think I'd rather have Stasis range extended. Keep noticing that in combat-intensive environment, I sometimes miss my channeled Stasis (Choke) by a milimeter, and those extra 5 meters would be juuuuuuuuuust perfect.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Helig

[-Arcane-]

Range would also be viable but a little less effective, sure it helps you to produce the skill in pvp but it dosent realy gain you much in 1v1 when you have few dots.

 

My way would make it a much higher priority for combat (and improve synergy with focus first tier).

 

Still I doubt they will change it at all tbh.

[Helig]

Range would also be viable but a little less effective, sure it helps you to produce the skill in pvp but it dosent realy gain you much in 1v1 when you have few dots.

 

My way would make it a much higher priority for combat (and improve synergy with focus first tier).

 

Still I doubt they will change it at all tbh.

 

I understand were you're coming from, but I don't think all specs were intended to be equally viable 1 on 1.

[-Arcane-]

Yep I agree, but each spec should have advantages, Watchman selfheals and armour penetrating dots, Focus massive aoe and combat.. 10m range?

[Helig]

Yep I agree, but each spec should have advantages, Watchman selfheals and armour penetrating dots, Focus massive aoe and combat.. 10m range?

 

Self-healing isn't that big. It helps, but it's not something that I'd list as a defining feature. I was more sold on 4-sec invincibility on Camo and shorter cooldowns on interrupts (and the fact that you can also use charge as a melee interrupt - important when burning down a healer).

 

Combat has two extra roots and an extra root-break. That's pretty huge if you ask me. Well, that, and 6 second 100% armour penetration - not too shabby, as well.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Helig

[-Arcane-]

Yeah fair assessment, however watchman selfheals can make a big difference when 1vX ing

 

Can selfheal 10-20% with GBtF or FC running and the speed that you can build centering realy makes it a major mechanic.

[Helig]

Yeah fair assessment, however watchman selfheals can make a big difference when 1vX ing

 

Can selfheal 10-20% with GBtF or FC running and the speed that you can build centering realy makes it a major mechanic.

 

Well, as I said, I don't believe Combat is a 1vX spec - it's more of a teamplay spec that I think outshines Watchman in a tight-knit premade group.

 

Because my main is Guardian, I don't have a premade for my Marauder - so I prefer a more solo-friendly Annihilation spec. Otherwise, I'd give Carnage a serious consideration.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Helig

[-Arcane-]

Well, as I said, I don't believe Combat is a 1vX spec - it's more of a teamplay spec that I think outshines Watchman in a tight-knit premade group.

 

HM gonna have to disagree with this one, watchman dps is at least as good and you can group heal. Ok you lack a root but in premades thats 3 players focusing one, any cc is enough.

[Helig]

HM gonna have to disagree with this one, watchman dps is at least as good and you can group heal. Ok you lack a root but in premades thats 3 players focusing one, any cc is enough.

 

Unless you run a premade without a healer, those heals won't do much (even without one, they won't be exactly saving anyone - it's an advantage, but not a huge one). Besides, I prefer running Predation (Transcendence) to Berserk.

 

Roots penetrate through Resolve - and this is the difference between score and no score in Huttball, dead or escaped focus target (usually healing Sorc - unless there are several nearby, there's little chance of him getting pulled away). Can't count the times that I'd prevent the ball from landing if I had just one extra root.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Helig

[Kyromoo]

One of the primary problems with Combat is in Precision Slash.

 

The nature of the global cooldown, combined with how quickly Combat can starve itself of focus, means that we only get 4.5 seconds of effective uptime of armor penetration from PS.

 

 

If a single stun or knockback hits you during this time, your ArmorPen burst is essentially wasted. Completely.

 

Worse, with how ability delays have been going, I haven't even been able to get 4 Zen'd Blade Rushes in---the best I can manage is three during the time, making Master Strike + Blade Storm a far better option---assuming Master Strike doesn't get interrupted, and thereby wastes my armorpen again.

 

 

Anyone fighting a combat sentinel just needs to root and snare us to neutralize us very rapidly. It's our own trick, but we're more susceptible to it than anyone else. We pop force camo? Root us again, it's not like it gives us resolve. Top that with an interruptable Master Strike and the issues Precision Slash has, and it gets pretty easy to see why Combat is rough to play in PvP.

 

 

Here's why we're still doing well:

 

1. The majority population hasn't noticed how susceptible we are to roots and snares.

2. The majority population will tunnel vision on a target-- We'll kill them while they're focusing on someone else, and when we get focused, we have the tools to handle it (Rebuke/Saber Ward), or get away from it (Force Camo).

 

 

Once people work this out, though, it won't matter. For now, we just get locked down when playing smart premades.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Kyromoo