Are Marauders/Sentinels the strongest class on full potentional?

[Wingzeron]

So do you think a Watchman/Annihilation Sentinel/Marauder could be the strongest and best pvp class in game on full potentional compared to other classes who are also being played on full potentional

[McVade]

1v1, I think a extremely well played Sentinel/Marauder of the right spec can beat almost anyone except Ops/Scoundrels presently. The burst they do in their opener, even if you pop your cooldown to break the stun, cannot be caught up to unless they are just a bad player.

 

The issue is, 1v1, I think a competent or even fairly-well played Sentinel/Marauder can't beat anyone of equal skill.

Edited January 27, 2012 by McVade

[Wingzeron]

1v1, I think a extremely well played Sentinel/Marauder of the right spec can beat almost anyone except Ops/Scoundrels presently. The burst they do in their opener, even if you pop your cooldown to break the stun, cannot be caught up to unless they are just a bad player.

 

The issue is, 1v1, I think a competent or even fairly-well played Sentinel/Marauder can't beat anyone of equal skill.

 

I don't actually mean 1v1, but more in overal. being the best/strongest class like no other class can actually do the same even on full potentional when a sentinel plays on full potentional

[nschlan]

So do you think a Watchman/Annihilation Sentinel/Marauder could be the strongest and best pvp class in game on full potentional compared to other classes who are also being played on full potentional

 

Absolutely. Actually, one of the guys I play with is Combat spec and has modded his gear with mods and such from other classes so that no one can touch his damage (4.5k blade storm crits ftw) and is probably the top player on my server, so I would say throw Combat into that mix too.

[McVade]

I don't actually mean 1v1, but more in overal. being the best/strongest class like no other class can actually do the same even on full potentional when a sentinel plays on full potentional

 

If you're *not* talking 1v1, I would go as far as saying we're bottom of the list, with exception to DPS Guardians/Juggernauts. You'll bust your ***, mastering 35-40 keybindings, and unless you're on a dedicated premade with a pocket tank+healer, you're going to finish middle of the road damage and go pretty much unsung more often than not.

 

For an unsupported Sentinel to do a ton of damage, the stars kinda have to align just right. It happens for some people and they take a screenshot and post it here as definitive proof the class is fine. The proof is in the pudding though: if every Trooper or Smuggler or Consular posted a screenshot of them topping damage, the bandwidth on the SWTOR would crash. For them, it's expected.

 

Only one Warzone I've ever played, have I seen a Sentinel/Marauder top damage. A single one. I think that's compelling proof that this class is really lackluster for most in a team environment.

 

"Incoming defense: So I don't top meters. I just win games. QQ moar baddie."

 

Yes, and you can do that with any other class too, with the added benefit of working half as hard AND topping meters AND getting recognition. How's this a defense?

Edited January 27, 2012 by McVade

[Wingzeron]

If you're *not* talking 1v1, I would go as far as saying we're bottom of the list, with exception to DPS Guardians/Juggernauts. You'll bust your ***, mastering 35-40 keybindings, and unless you're on a dedicated premade with a pocket tank+healer, you're going to finish middle of the road damage and go pretty much unsung more often than not.

 

For an unsupported Sentinel to do a ton of damage, the stars kinda have to align just right. It happens for some people and they take a screenshot and post it here as definitive proof the class is fine. The proof is in the pudding though: if every Trooper or Smuggler or Consular posted a screenshot of them topping damage, the bandwidth on the SWTOR would crash. For them, it's expected.

 

Only one Warzone I've ever played, have I seen a Sentinel/Marauder top damage. A single one. I think that's compelling proof that this class is really lackluster for most in a team environment.

 

"Incoming defense: So I don't top meters. I just win games. QQ moar baddie."

 

Yes, and you can do that with any other class too, with the added benefit of working half as hard AND topping meters AND getting recognition. How's this a defense?

 

Well, I don't mind the effort. its ok to be the hardest class to play as long as it is the most rewarded thing. So my question is if thats the case?

[TheRealBrave]

Sentinels are remarkably powerful in the right hands. Don't listen to the whining.

[McVade]

Well, I don't mind the effort. its ok to be the hardest class to play as long as it is the most rewarded thing. So my question is if thats the case?

 

Depends what you find rewarding. To me, it's not for reasons I've already said. To others, it is.

Edited January 27, 2012 by McVade

[ReithKanaka]

I don't think we can stress it enough that, your skilled Sentinel is gonna be comparable to a decent bounty hunter. People may not agree thats fine.

 

I believe this simply cause Sentinel is one of those class where you can give it your all and be a bad *** and still be at the middle or lower end of the pvp bracket, you may perform better as your stats improve but until you can get champion gear or better is when we start to make a name for ourselves. But that is poor design.

 

I'm stealing this from someone so I apologize, There are simply no average players in the community, there are sentinel that are too weak to compete, and those that are fully geared and know when to pop their power-ups, relics, etc etc that act like their elites.

 

Don't accuse people of whining when its simply their opinion. Acting like a snob when people don't agree with you really doesn't do our community any good.

 

You can or can't trust me when I say this. This sub-forum is filled with people who have years of biased mmorpg experience and their filled with hot air. Form your own opinion when u start the 50 bracket.

Edited January 28, 2012 by ReithKanaka

[ReithKanaka]

Actually Mcvade, I think you said that.

[RamzaBehoulve]

A great sentinel is worse than a great X. A Master Sentinel is better than a Master x.

[RamzaBehoulve]

I don't think we can stress it enough that, your skilled Sentinel is gonna be comparable to a decent bounty hunter. People may not agree thats fine.

 

I believe this simply cause Sentinel is one of those class where you can give it your all and be a bad *** and still be at the middle or lower end of the pvp bracket, you may perform better as your stats improve but until you can get champion gear or better is when we start to make a name for ourselves. But that is poor design.

 

I'm stealing this from someone so I apologize, There are simply no average players in the community, there are sentinel that are too weak to compete, and those that are fully geared and know when to pop their power-ups, relics, etc etc that act like their elites.

 

Don't accuse people of whining when its simply their opinion. Acting like a snob when people don't agree with you really doesn't do our community any good.

 

You can or can't trust me when I say this. This sub-forum is filled with people who have years of biased mmorpg experience and their filled with hot air. Form your own opinion when u start the 50 bracket.

 

Yes, we get it, don't worry, you don't need to reexplain your point of view in each thread, this one will suffice : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=237957

 

Sadly, like most rants, it doesn't hold any water. The Sentinel class does reward masterful gameplay of the class more than it will any other in the game. Just because a majority cannot reach the skill level to master it isn't a problem (I probably never will either). Not everyone can study biology or chemistry either, plenty of other subjects or jobs available.

 

I really don't know where people get the idea everything in a multiplayer online game should cater to their own skill cap. SWTOR doesn't have a difficulty cursor, instead, the AC have different skill caps and learning curves. If we take games like League of Legends, each Champion has a different learning curve and skill cap and it's even stated on their summary.

 

Just pick something you enjoy and find "easy" if you can't handle the Sentinel and are frustrated because it's not going to change anytime soon. Noone is forcing you to play it, but yourself. Just shelve it and if a change comes one day (probably not, it's more likely we'll get nerfed, you'll see), resume.

 

I'm sorry for singling you out like that, but just as you are getting tired of so called "elitists", I'm getting tired of whiners who won't accept their own shortcomings. I did, I accepted mines, I'll never dominate a Warzone, but I still enjoy the class and am trying to get the most out of it. I don't want some dumbing down that will result in total domination by master players and we end up nerfed badly because that is what will happen if you continue.

Edited January 28, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[ReithKanaka]

I'll free feel to post my opinions as much as I'd like, and reiterate when i like. Don't like it, tough. Whether or not change comes sooner or later, doesn't matter.

 

Its kinda funny you guys are pointing me out to be a bad player when I simply pointed how bad this class can be for someone who first comes into 50 pvp bracket. If my views seem to support a friendlier base, I'm apparently just a noob or i have shortcomings? oh stop it. You have nothing to compare me to a badplayer or a noob outside these posts. And if the content of them scream noob or something along that context really shows narrow-mindedness

 

Good job there not coming off as an elitist. Have fun reading my future posts

Unless you plan to man up and just ignore me....... nah lol that won't happen.

[pagansaint]

Elitism is a paper tiger argument that isn't going anywhere, as long as people feel entitled to personal results equaling best results, and any other result is an obvious game balance problem, it just will not die.

 

This class is a case in point, people who complain of a new level 50 of a personal skill and gear dependent class being weak when first starting 50 PvP are going to not quit until the class is changed to give them a skill cap they can reach from day one. Not from when they practice or acquire the gear, but from logging in and selecting the class.

Edited January 28, 2012 by pagansaint

[Toppins]

I'm curious about something.

 

To the people that think this class is weak in a group setting:

 

Do you have problems with DPS Mercenaries?

How do you feel you do against enemy healers?

How do you fare against Sorcerors?

[Sandoichi]

Whoever thinks that sentinels finish "middle of the road" damage in warzones is just terrible at the class.

 

In short games I break 300k damage 90% of the time, and in long games I can break 500k. I'm ALWAYS first or second on the damage list. The only person who can stay on par with my dps is my scoundrel friend.

 

And no, I'm not super geared either. Last game I did 502k damage with a centurion mainhand, champ offhand, and 5x orange armors.

 

Sentinel doesn't need a buff at all. Bugs need fixed, but other than that, people need to learn to play.

 

Also to the guy that thinks dps guardians do bad damage.. LOL! A focus guardian can break 400k by punching his keyboard.

[nschlan]

Whoever thinks that sentinels finish "middle of the road" damage in warzones is just terrible at the class.

 

In short games I break 300k damage 90% of the time, and in long games I can break 500k. I'm ALWAYS first or second on the damage list. The only person who can stay on par with my dps is my scoundrel friend.

 

And no, I'm not super geared either. Last game I did 502k damage with a centurion mainhand, champ offhand, and 5x orange armors.

 

Sentinel doesn't need a buff at all. Bugs need fixed, but other than that, people need to learn to play.

 

Also to the guy that thinks dps guardians do bad damage.. LOL! A focus guardian can break 400k by punching his keyboard.

 

Lemme guess, foucs spec? Sentinels, except for focus, don't really even need to top the damage chart. That's strictly for epeen. What really matters is that your targets are going down and are going down quickly, especially healers, and that you're focusing on the objectives. The damage comes naturally that way. Played optimally it's an amazing class.

[Renlotho]

Whoever thinks that sentinels finish "middle of the road" damage in warzones is just terrible at the class.

 

In short games I break 300k damage 90% of the time, and in long games I can break 500k. I'm ALWAYS first or second on the damage list. The only person who can stay on par with my dps is my scoundrel friend.

 

And no, I'm not super geared either. Last game I did 502k damage with a centurion mainhand, champ offhand, and 5x orange armors.

 

Sentinel doesn't need a buff at all. Bugs need fixed, but other than that, people need to learn to play.

 

Also to the guy that thinks dps guardians do bad damage.. LOL! A focus guardian can break 400k by punching his keyboard.

 

Hmm, I guess its just an anomaly that I'm one of the best sent/Marauders on my server (only one definitively better and two who are on par). Yet I have almost NEVER seen one of us top the charts (always me in fact) and usually its when we are up against TERRIBLE teams. I guess maybe JUST my server has the baddies at this class.

 

Is it possible that you are a very, VERY good player? I mean to say you break 300k in SHORT wz with no effort screams pro-sentinel play. I'm sure you would hit 500k if you played scoundrel, commando, gunslinger or Sage if you tried it.

 

People aren't TERRIBLE players if we don't consistently hit 300k in short wz. That's absurd. You are clearly either blowing smoke, or are actually EXTREMELY good in the top 10% of all sentinels and maybe higher. I've NEVER seen a sent or Marauder break 300k in any wz ever and I'm valor 51.

 

I don't claim to be a great sentinel but it's amazing to me that you would claim to be merely average when the numbers you are putting up are just MASSIVE for a sent/marauder. Instead of ripping on others, why not say. You know I'm a good player and I can do X, it's not the class its that only folks who are very good at mastering tons of keybinds and are otherwise very good can get the full potential out of this class.

 

I know dozens and dozens of commando's, gunslingers/ops/scoundrels/snipers and sages/sorcs who hit 350k almost every wz and have never seen a sent/marauder break 300k. I doubt that is a coincidence or unique to my server.

 

I imagine there might be as many as 100 Sent/Marauders who are able to pull off what you describe out of likely 1000's of players of those classes. You are either in the top 10% or just plain full of it.

[nschlan]

Hmm, I guess its just an anomaly that I'm one of the best sent/Marauders on my server (only one definitively better and two who are on par). Yet I have almost NEVER seen one of us top the charts (always me in fact) and usually its when we are up against TERRIBLE teams. I guess maybe JUST my server has the baddies at this class.

 

Is it possible that you are a very, VERY good player? I mean to say you break 300k in SHORT wz with no effort screams pro-sentinel play. I'm sure you would hit 500k if you played scoundrel, commando, gunslinger or Sage if you tried it.

 

People aren't TERRIBLE players if we don't consistently hit 300k in short wz. That's absurd. You are clearly either blowing smoke, or are actually EXTREMELY good in the top 10% of all sentinels and maybe higher. I've NEVER seen a sent or Marauder break 300k in any wz ever and I'm valor 51.

 

I don't claim to be a great sentinel but it's amazing to me that you would claim to be merely average when the numbers you are putting up are just MASSIVE for a sent/marauder. Instead of ripping on others, why not say. You know I'm a good player and I can do X, it's not the class its that only folks who are very good at mastering tons of keybinds and are otherwise very good can get the full potential out of this class.

 

I know dozens and dozens of commando's, gunslingers/ops/scoundrels/snipers and sages/sorcs who hit 350k almost every wz and have never seen a sent/marauder break 300k. I doubt that is a coincidence or unique to my server.

 

I imagine there might be as many as 100 Sent/Marauders who are able to pull off what you describe out of likely 1000's of players of those classes. You are either in the top 10% or just plain full of it.

 

He probably plays focus spec which is easy mode damage (either that or he's full of crap). I play Watchman and consider myself the 2nd best Sent/Mara on my server (only 1 higher than me is a guildy) and I consistently pull 300k-400k and my guildy 400k-500k in Combat spec.

Edited January 28, 2012 by nschlan

[Sandoichi]

Lemme guess, foucs spec? Sentinels, except for focus, don't really even need to top the damage chart. That's strictly for epeen. What really matters is that your targets are going down and are going down quickly, especially healers, and that you're focusing on the objectives. The damage comes naturally that way. Played optimally it's an amazing class.

 

No, i'm not focus spec. I have 2 points in focus tree. And I can kill someone just about as fast as an operative/scoundrel can.

 

He probably plays focus spec which is easy mode damage. I play Watchman and consider myself the 2nd best Sent/Mara on my server (only 1 higher than me is a guildy) and I consistently pull 300k-400k and my guildy 400k-500k in Combat spec.

No, I'm not focus spec.

 

Hmm, I guess its just an anomaly that I'm one of the best sent/Marauders on my server (only one definitively better and two who are on par). Yet I have almost NEVER seen one of us top the charts (always me in fact) and usually its when we are up against TERRIBLE teams. I guess maybe JUST my server has the baddies at this class.

 

Is it possible that you are a very, VERY good player? I mean to say you break 300k in SHORT wz with no effort screams pro-sentinel play. I'm sure you would hit 500k if you played scoundrel, commando, gunslinger or Sage if you tried it.

 

People aren't TERRIBLE players if we don't consistently hit 300k in short wz. That's absurd. You are clearly either blowing smoke, or are actually EXTREMELY good in the top 10% of all sentinels and maybe higher. I've NEVER seen a sent or Marauder break 300k in any wz ever and I'm valor 51.

 

I don't claim to be a great sentinel but it's amazing to me that you would claim to be merely average when the numbers you are putting up are just MASSIVE for a sent/marauder. Instead of ripping on others, why not say. You know I'm a good player and I can do X, it's not the class its that only folks who are very good at mastering tons of keybinds and are otherwise very good can get the full potential out of this class.

 

I know dozens and dozens of commando's, gunslingers/ops/scoundrels/snipers and sages/sorcs who hit 350k almost every wz and have never seen a sent/marauder break 300k. I doubt that is a coincidence or unique to my server.

 

I imagine there might be as many as 100 Sent/Marauders who are able to pull off what you describe out of likely 1000's of players of those classes. You are either in the top 10% or just plain full of it.

I am the best Sentinel on my server. I've also never lost a 1v1 duel to any class. My scoundrel friend who can outdamage me in WZ gets beat pretty hard by me. I find it very hard to believe that you have never seen a sent/marauder break 300k. The knights/warriors on your server must be pretty bad.

 

I have 28 keybinds and I use each one multiple times in every single WZ. I tried focus spec before, and it was extremely boring. I do much more damage in both watchman/combat than I do in focus, and I will never lose a fight to a focus specced Sentinel.

 

SWTOR honestly has the worst PvPers that I've EVER seen in any MMO. Every class and every dps tree is completely capable of breaking 300k damage without top gear. My lvl 43 Shadow also breaks 300k in 90% of his matches, including prepatch when I had to fight geared 50s. My shadow was my main whenever I started this game. I rerolled at lvl 43 because I got extremely bored of how easy it was to play, and I wanted something more challenging. Everyone told me that sentinels/marauders sucked, so I decided to roll one and see for myself. I agree that Sentinel is a lot more micro intensive than any other class, but its still not too hard to do the rotations.

 

Also, if I was playing a trooper/bounty hunter, I guarantee I would be breaking 600k damage relatively often. IMO they have the highest dps potential and can be played fairly effortlessly.

 

If you are seeing everyone do under 300k damage in most of your warzones, it is because they aren't good players.

[Renlotho]

He probably plays focus spec which is easy mode damage (either that or he's full of crap). I play Watchman and consider myself the 2nd best Sent/Mara on my server (only 1 higher than me is a guildy) and I consistently pull 300k-400k and my guildy 400k-500k in Combat spec.

 

Man those are such huge numbers. I think I'm not maxing out my trinket/adrenal use or something. That or its my gimpy main hand (bugged rakata atm). I'm just blown away by the 400k+ folks.

[Munx]

I'm curious about something.

 

To the people that think this class is weak in a group setting:

 

Do you have problems with DPS Mercenaries?

How do you feel you do against enemy healers?

How do you fare against Sorcerors?

 

1: Yes, everyone does, if the dps merc isnt completly useless.

2: Fine unless theyr Bounty hunter/Trooper, even with healing debuff and perfectly timed interupt, it would take a miracle for them to die, unless they are clueless as to how to play theyr class.

3: No Sorcs are marauder/sentinel food.

 

 

 

What others have said is true, the Marauders/Sentinels have less potential of being the strongest class.

 

1: our damage can and is matched by ranged dps such as Sniper/Merc/Sorc.

2: We don't have Knockbacks/Knockdowns/Pulls, while Sniper/Merc/Sorc All have atleast 1 of these each.

3: We have one stun, which is channeled, against atleast 2 non channeled ranged stuns from ranged dpses.

4: We don't have self heals unlike Merc and Sorc.

5: Ranged Aoes..

6: Our only debuff is 20% Healing, people love to say how awesome it is, but in all honesty 6 sec specced interupt is more useful.

 

Simply put one of these classes playing to theyr full potential (VERY few of them do, since they can get trough mainstory by using only a handful of theyr abilities unlike marauder/sentinel, which is forced to learn to juggle them all) Will absolutely have more potential then Marauders/sentinels ever will.

 

 

 

Do I do well in pvp? yes, Because I know exactly how to play my marauders and sentinel, I utilize every single skill that gives me ANY sort of benefit in pvp, and I use them correctly, right down to using camo to interrupt dangerous long channels, or using intimidating roar to break covers, or rupturing to avoid vanish.

 

Even so I can only push the class so far.

 

 

 

Oh and lets by all means not forget that the games make a point out of locking us from making hybrid specs, unlike other classes.. the way marauder/sent talents are set up a hybrid spec could never be viable.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Munx

[nschlan]

No, i'm not focus spec. I have 2 points in focus tree. And I can kill someone just about as fast as an operative/scoundrel can.

 

 

No, I'm not focus spec.

 

 

I am the best Sentinel on my server. I've also never lost a 1v1 duel to any class. My scoundrel friend who can outdamage me in WZ gets beat pretty hard by me. I find it very hard to believe that you have never seen a sent/marauder break 300k. The knights/warriors on your server must be pretty bad.

 

I have 28 keybinds and I use each one multiple times in every single WZ. I tried focus spec before, and it was extremely boring. I do much more damage in both watchman/combat than I do in focus, and I will never lose a fight to a focus specced Sentinel.

 

SWTOR honestly has the worst PvPers that I've EVER seen in any MMO. Every class and every dps tree is completely capable of breaking 300k damage without top gear. My lvl 43 Shadow also breaks 300k in 90% of his matches, including prepatch when I had to fight geared 50s. My shadow was my main whenever I started this game. I rerolled at lvl 43 because I got extremely bored of how easy it was to play, and I wanted something more challenging. Everyone told me that sentinels/marauders sucked, so I decided to roll one and see for myself. I agree that Sentinel is a lot more micro intensive than any other class, but its still not too hard to do the rotations.

 

Also, if I was playing a trooper/bounty hunter, I guarantee I would be breaking 600k damage relatively often. IMO they have the highest dps potential and can be played fairly effortlessly.

 

If you are seeing everyone do under 300k damage in most of your warzones, it is because they aren't good players.

 

If they're under 300k it doesn't necessarily make them bad. Focus fire cuts down on a lot of damage potential, especially for Watchman. But yes, SWTOR has some awful PvPers.

 

Edit: I'd also like to know what you do to pull that much damage. My best is 475k damage and my average is like 370k

Edited January 28, 2012 by nschlan

[McVade]

No, i'm not focus spec. I have 2 points in focus tree. And I can kill someone just about as fast as an operative/scoundrel can.

 

No, I'm not focus spec.

 

I am the best Sentinel on my server. I've also never lost a 1v1 duel to any class. My scoundrel friend who can outdamage me in WZ gets beat pretty hard by me. I find it very hard to believe that you have never seen a sent/marauder break 300k. The knights/warriors on your server must be pretty bad.

 

I have 28 keybinds and I use each one multiple times in every single WZ. I tried focus spec before, and it was extremely boring. I do much more damage in both watchman/combat than I do in focus, and I will never lose a fight to a focus specced Sentinel.

 

SWTOR honestly has the worst PvPers that I've EVER seen in any MMO. Every class and every dps tree is completely capable of breaking 300k damage without top gear. My lvl 43 Shadow also breaks 300k in 90% of his matches, including prepatch when I had to fight geared 50s. My shadow was my main whenever I started this game. I rerolled at lvl 43 because I got extremely bored of how easy it was to play, and I wanted something more challenging. Everyone told me that sentinels/marauders sucked, so I decided to roll one and see for myself. I agree that Sentinel is a lot more micro intensive than any other class, but its still not too hard to do the rotations.

 

Also, if I was playing a trooper/bounty hunter, I guarantee I would be breaking 600k damage relatively often. IMO they have the highest dps potential and can be played fairly effortlessly.

 

If you are seeing everyone do under 300k damage in most of your warzones, it is because they aren't good players.

 

Don't know if lying/trolling or just pompous windbag. Probably combination of the two, especially with that last line. A good portion of my warzones, *no one* tops 300k, simply because one side or another wins too fast.

Edited January 28, 2012 by McVade

[Sandoichi]

If they're under 300k it doesn't necessarily make them bad. Focus fire cuts down on a lot of damage potential, especially for Watchman. But yes, SWTOR has some awful PvPers.

 

Edit: I'd also like to know what you do to pull that much damage. My best is 475k damage and my average is like 370k

 

I don't mess up my rotations, and I use my focus wisely. I hardly ever forget to use cooldowns when they are up.

 

I only premade with my 1 soundrel friend, so I have no healer on me either. If i had a dedicated healer, I would be doing more damage. I am also positive that if I had a full set of battlemaster gear, I could break 600k.

 

Even with perfect rotations, it is near impossible to kill a GOOD/geared heal specced merc/commando 1v1. In fact I think that if they played as best as the class allows, it is 100% impossible for them to die in a 1v1 situation. If I could change anything about this game, it is healing in PvP.