Carnage PvP build for review...and reasons why...

[Lashlarue]

Thinking of switching from Anni spec to Carnage as follows here: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100McZGGrbddMRMsZh.1

 

All in all, my goal is maximize rage generation with highest mobility in order to minimize the need for snares (cripping slash). I feel like the above build does this, and may actually go overboard on rage generation/maintenance with the refunds and reductions. Further, in my experience, the immobilization effect of Ravage and Force Choke are too unreliable to count on consistently - therefore no emphasis is placed on lowering the cooldowns of either one or enhancing the immobilization duration. This is taking into consideration that immobilizers are NOT affected by the buggy Resolve function.

 

Additionally, I tend to place I high priority or emphasis on Fury generation and the abilities that go with it.

 

Why I put or didn't put points where for the 5/33/3 build:

Cloak of Annihilation 2/2: I use Retribution and Cloak of Pain as much as possible, so I want to minimize my downtime with Cloak of Pain as much as possible for damage mitigation

 

Quick Recovery 0/2: I do not ever plan to use Smash because I get no crit bonuses for it. Will only be on my toolbar for Void Star or Alderraan warzones to catch the person that's trying to plant/diffuse the bomb or take control of a turret. And even then, it's last ditch.

 

Cloak of Carnage 2/2: Because of using Cloak of Pain as often as possible with as minimal of downtime as possible, I want this proc'ing rage as often as possible to avoid rage starvation.

 

Defensive Forms 2/2: I proc my Berzerk/Predation quite often, and the Fury generation helps maximize their use.

 

Overwhelm 0/2: I've messed with this to learn that I find the immobilization effect of Ravage too unreliable to count on. In fact, Ravage won't even be apart of my normal rotation/priority because of this and not being able to get the 3rd big hit in. If I can sneak it in on some stunned guy, I'll do it, but not counting on it for regular damage.

 

Ravager 0/2: Since Ravage (and by extension, Force Choke) will not be apart of my priority rotation, I don't think I'm going to miss the cooldown reduction.

 

Stagger 0/2: Tying back into my non-priority use of Ravage and the unreliability of the immobilization effect, I don't feel like putting 2 points here is a good thing to do. In PvP, the immobilization effect is too unreliable to count on.

 

Other: I am oh so tempted to take 2 points out of Defensive Roll and put them in Displacement to stop runners from getting away.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Lashlarue

[AcaciaDragon]

Thinking of switching from Anni spec to Carnage as follows here: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100McZGGrbddMRMsZh.1

 

All in all, my goal is maximize rage generation with highest mobility in order to minimize the need for snares (cripping slash). I feel like the above build does this, and may actually go overboard on rage generation/maintenance with the refunds and reductions. Further, in my experience, the immobilization effect of Ravage and Force Choke are too unreliable to count on consistently - therefore no emphasis is placed on lowering the cooldowns of either one or enhancing the immobilization duration. This is taking into consideration that immobilizers are NOT affected by the buggy Resolve function.

 

Additionally, I tend to place I high priority or emphasis on Fury generation and the abilities that go with it.

 

Why I put or didn't put points where for the 5/33/3 build:

Cloak of Annihilation 2/2: I use Retribution and Cloak of Pain as much as possible, so I want to minimize my downtime with Cloak of Pain as much as possible for damage mitigation

 

Retaliation costs 3 rage to use. Thats 1/4 of your rage that could ahve been sued on Massacre, which does more damage. If Retaliation costs less or did more it would be worth it, but atm, your better off setting other abilities at a higher priority.

 

Quick Recovery 0/2: I do not ever plan to use Smash because I get no crit bonuses for it. Will only be on my toolbar for Void Star or Alderraan warzones to catch the person that's trying to plant/diffuse the bomb or take control of a turret. And even then, it's last ditch.

 

No one in Carnage should use it. Good choice

 

Cloak of Carnage 2/2: Because of using Cloak of Pain as often as possible with as minimal of downtime as possible, I want this proc'ing rage as often as possible to avoid rage starvation.

 

This does help, but you have to get hit in order for it to generate rage. I find this fallas off to quickly. I put 1 point in this simply because there was nothing else i could invest in to move up in the Talent tree.

 

Defensive Forms 2/2: I proc my Berzerk/Predation quite often, and the Fury generation helps maximize their use.

 

This is a mush for fury generation. Every Spec should have this.

 

Overwhelm 0/2: I've messed with this to learn that I find the immobilization effect of Ravage too unreliable to count on. In fact, Ravage won't even be apart of my normal rotation/priority because of this and not being able to get the 3rd big hit in. If I can sneak it in on some stunned guy, I'll do it, but not counting on it for regular damage.

 

Ravage afer a Gore and pwoer adrenal with a Force scream at the end can end up doing around 10-11k damage, having the root is amazing since roots arent effected by resolve. You are gimping yourself for not investing in this. Ravage may not be reliable but it is still one of our hardest hitting moves.

 

Ravager 0/2: Since Ravage (and by extension, Force Choke) will not be apart of my priority rotation, I don't think I'm going to miss the cooldown reduction.

 

I didnt invest in this either simply because Ravage isnt reliable. The moment it is, i will invest in this. Ravage is worth using, just not investing those 2 points for. Choke is Mcweaksauce too. I use it as an interupt.

 

Stagger 0/2: Tying back into my non-priority use of Ravage and the unreliability of the immobilization effect, I don't feel like putting 2 points here is a good thing to do. In PvP, the immobilization effect is too unreliable to count on.

 

Other: I am oh so tempted to take 2 points out of Defensive Roll and put them in Displacement to stop runners from getting away.

 

Displacement is worth it, especially in Huttball. The lag kills it though, im always 1 second too late to trap them. Defensive roll is too. Alot of abilities in PvP are AOE, including tracer missle, i think, we are already squishy enough so being able to prevent more damage can only help us.

 

 

Try this spec:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1000cZuGrbddrRrs.1

 

After you can get 103% accuracy, go and respec to take 3 points out of Narrow Hatred. Even at 100% accuracy in PvP, i still havent found a time when i miss.

[Caliban_Thule]

drop malice. You will be WAY over the hit cap with just Ataru form.

 

Cloak of pain is up often enough not no need to waste rage for retaliation to get it back

 

Use overwhelm and displacement. Holding someone still is 100% better than snaring them.

 

If you are just looking to slow someone, be either rage or annihilation, they do it better. The whole point of carnage PvP is the roots combined with burst.

[AcaciaDragon]

drop malice. You will be WAY over the hit cap with just Ataru form.

 

Cloak of pain is up often enough not no need to waste rage for retaliation to get it back

 

Use overwhelm and displacement. Holding someone still is 100% better than snaring them.

 

If you are just looking to slow someone, be either rage or annihilation, they do it better. The whole point of carnage PvP is the roots combined with burst.

 

What does the crit chance of Malice have to do with the accuracy Ataru form gives?

 

Also Malice effects your Ataru form strikes, gives them extra chance to crit.

[Caliban_Thule]

What does the crit chance of Malice have to do with the accuracy Ataru form gives?

 

Also Malice effects your Ataru form strikes, gives them extra chance to crit.

 

Err sorry Narrow Hatred.

 

Trying to type while distracted is hard

Edited January 27, 2012 by Caliban_Thule

[Lashlarue]

Retaliation costs 3 rage to use. Thats 1/4 of your rage that could ahve been sued on Massacre, which does more damage. If Retaliation costs less or did more it would be worth it, but atm, your better off setting other abilities at a higher priority.

 

I am hoping that the rage generation and refunds I've put in place can mitigate the Retaliation costs. I am actually really interested to see how this works out in actual practice. Let me put it this way...I never had an issue with rage using Retaliation with my Anni spec (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100MIrRMRMcGzZGMd.1).

 

Ravage afer a Gore and pwoer adrenal with a Force scream at the end can end up doing around 10-11k damage, having the root is amazing since roots arent effected by resolve. You are gimping yourself for not investing in this. Ravage may not be reliable but it is still one of our hardest hitting moves.

 

Sure Ravage after Gore with a power adrenal with a force scream can dish out some serious damage, but it just seems so situational to me. But as I said (and you agreed with me in your next point ), Ravage immobilize effect is far too unreliable.

 

********

 

drop malice. You will be WAY over the hit cap with just Ataru form.

 

Malice helps proc Ataru crits. Whether that 6 percent additional chance is worth it, I guess remains to be seen.

 

Cloak of pain is up often enough not no need to waste rage for retaliation to get it back

 

See, I disagree.

 

That 12 seconds reduces your total effective downtime of Cloak of Pain by a whopping 40 percent. To me, that's huge. Instead of having to wait 30 seconds after CoP ends, you can reactivate 18 seconds later. Don't look at it as going from 60 seconds CD to 48. Look at it as going from 30 seconds to 18 seconds.

 

Use overwhelm and displacement. Holding someone still is 100% better than snaring them.

 

Ravage immobilize effects are just far too inconsistent for me.

 

If you are just looking to slow someone, be either rage or annihilation, they do it better. The whole point of carnage PvP is the roots combined with burst.

 

Where did I say I was looking to slow someone? Did I mistype something?

 

The immobilize from Deadly Throw isn't a slow. It stops them, which HOPEFULLY given my 15 percent speed buff from Ataru should allow me to close on them quicky in the event my Force Charge is on CD.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Lashlarue

[AcaciaDragon]

My issue with cloak of Pain is that yo have to get hit at least once every 5 seconds to have it reapply. When you get more gear and start looking like a Juggernaut, people will acutally start avoiding you thinking you are tank, this has been my experience, so getting a CoP to stay up longer than 10 seconds is a challenge. Try it out as Carnage, every time you use it, see how long it actually stays up.

 

Not trying to to brag, but i am valor lvl 55 and have a hard time keeping it up. Ive been carnage since lvl 10.

 

Also, massacre hits for alot more with Ataru, 2k per hit, 3k when they both crit, thats 1 less rage for doing 33% more damage.

 

But if you can make it work go for it, maybe i jsut need to work on my timing for cloak of pain. But if you are getting Rage starved id say put less priority on Retaliate.

Edited January 27, 2012 by AcaciaDragon

[Philjr]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1000cZuMrbddrRrsZhM.1

 

i'm liking this build so far

[Kibaken]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1000cZuMrbddrRrsZhM.1

 

i'm liking this build so far

 

That's what you'll want to use.

[EasymodeX]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1000cZuMrbddrRrsZhM.1

 

i'm liking this build so far

 

Tbh, Carnage is the easiest build to put together. I'd basically use this build, except swap the points in Unbound to Stagger.

 

The only real use of Unbound is against a Sniper.

[nonumbers]

After you can get 103% accuracy, go and respec to take 3 points out of Narrow Hatred. Even at 100% accuracy in PvP, i still havent found a time when i miss.

 

I believe... I could be wrong... but off-hand attacks are counted separately and since they have a base accuracy of I believe... 67%, you will miss those but you may not necessarily see the fact you're missing them as the damage is displayed in total, rather then separately. They do far less damage but still the damage is significant enough to warrant that accuracy.

[Yescek]

Malice helps proc Ataru crits. Whether that 6 percent additional chance is worth it, I guess remains to be seen.

 

I didn't know that Ataru was a force attack. The tooltip reads as though it's a melee attack. Also, if it IS a force attack, why do you still have to be in melee range to use it?

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bcZGMrbddrRrsZM.1 is the build i'm rocking now. Meant to be a PvE/PvP hybrid, it does fairly well. Let me tell you, it's helpful as all hell in both PvE and PvP to be able to rage build + Gore + Sweep spam. You'll be nailing each of those 5 targets for probably 1k a pop pre-crit, which you can spam up to 12 times though in practice you rarely live long enough/the mobs rarely live long enough/people rarely stay in range long enough to hit it that many times. Still though, combined with a 1 rage smash, you can dish out up to 4-5k AoE damage with this strategy as Carnage.

[AcaciaDragon]

I believe... I could be wrong... but off-hand attacks are counted separately and since they have a base accuracy of I believe... 67%, you will miss those but you may not necessarily see the fact you're missing them as the damage is displayed in total, rather then separately. They do far less damage but still the damage is significant enough to warrant that accuracy.

 

I think it only effects moves where a Second lightsaber(Battering Assault, etc) hit actually happens as my other abilities tend to hit for the same amount every time.

 

Still accuracy is significantly less effective after getting to 100%. Only 1 of your weapons now take advantage of it, and that 1 weapon hits for 30-40% of what the main hand can do. Those 3 points can def be spent more effectively elsewhere.