Wraeththu Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) So, during Ep2 Anakin goes in search of his mom's finds her dying in a Tusken Raider camp, and then proceeds to murder them all. This is supposed to be a powerful and pivotal part of the story (baring questionable acting). And yet, for my Jedi Guardian, that's like.. a drop in the daily bucket. I wipe out sand people camps, whole stations of imperials, etc. I'd say in the average questing day, I must kill at least a thousand meatbags/humanoids, along with various droids and critters. And yet, I'm a glowing bastion of light and peace. And I'm pretty confident they're dead, as it's pretty obvious that shoving a lightsaber through them 20 times and then leaving them collapsed in the sand is not a path to continued health. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, the mass murder aspects of bonus objectives. It really should be the exact OPPOSITE. "Were you able to sneak in and recover the data WITHOUT murdering everyone between there and here?" I don't get why the mission areas aren't more like Deus Ex with methods around people that don't involve baseball bat swings to their midrif with a lightsaber. Edited January 27, 2012 by Wraeththu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLazarillo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Well, to use the Anakin example, him fighting his way through the Sand People encampment to find his mother wasn't really very Dark Side-y. It was then going back and slaughtering them all in vengeance that was more frowned upon. And, true to that form, most "vengeance" related choices in the game that I've seen are pretty strictly Dark Side. Most of the bonus objective missions I've seen generally involve thinning the ranks of people who are trying to kill you anyway, rather than the green and yellow-colored "minding their own business" types. It's also just the nature of the genre. It's much harder to measure effort for rewards through methods other than enemies defeated. Hence, it's going to be in people's best interest, regardless, to engage in combat if they wish to progress and gain levels. Edited January 27, 2012 by JLazarillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerdo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 on of the reasons I stopped playing the consular I rolled when I got the game. it just didn't fit with my character to go around slaughter people. so I just skipped all the bonus missions wich in the end led to me being done with planets way before I was suppose to (level-wise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNA_Cowboy Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Yeah, I haven't saughtered any sand people children (sand children?), yet...so I'm good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraidy Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I have yet to see a bonus mission that tells you to kill children and inocent women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartalectwo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 If it makes you feel any better, walk slowly towards a chosen group of baddies and /say that you come in peace, wish to open negotiations concerning the strategic position they hold, and that you're willing to offer very favorable terms. If they start shooting when you get close, then it's self-defence to fight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krusedullfaen Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It works out real well for my Sith Juggernaut, you Jedi are so uptight about genocide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neothanos Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Its guys who are usually trying to kill you. You want a talk and make peace with every trash mob you are nuts. Its a game mechanic, and we arent playing star peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meira_Arirai Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) The Jedi Shadow buddy that I run with and I have been muttering incredulously about the trend of bonus missions that require you to kill lots of a given sentient species. "That's right, I'm going to totally wipe out these Rakata/Esh'ka/whatever, even though they're not going to attack me on the way to my next objective, because that's how we Jedi roll." To be fair, it's pretty difficult to reward conscientiousness and non-violence in the grindy, non-story-type sections of a MMORG. Edited January 27, 2012 by Meira_Arirai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagaNerezza Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The Jedi Shadow buddy that I run with and I have been muttering incredulously about the trend of bonus missions that require you to kill lots of a given sentient species. "That's right, I'm going to totally wipe out these Rakata/Esh'ka/whatever, even though they're not going to attack me on the way to my next objective, because that's how we Jedi roll." To be fair, it's pretty difficult to reward conscientiousness and non-violence in the grindy, non-story-type sections of a MMORG. No honestly its not. Its called Republic bonus = Don't kill. Empire = Kill all humans.... err... That should be a bonus to playing republic. You get all the bonus xp for less work. Don't want to kill 30 to kill 5 to kill 1? Play republic. It just required developers that wanted to introduce story arcs based on updating bonus objectives to be more creative. They wasted all there time voicing and writing scripts for the 100th dumb Lt. whose squad got trapped! Its always a trap. Now go free them. Oh and could you kill 50 imperials on the way. Works for my gunslinger who I don't care if he's bad or good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManOSteal Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 it is your disdain and lack of enjoyment that makes this not an act of evil. The thing that made it an act of evil for Anikin is that he did it merely for vengeance and that he enjoyed doling out that vengeance. These people are trying to kill you and the people you have sworn to help and protect. While you do not enjoy what you are doing, and may even wish to meditate on these acts later, these things must be done to ensure the survival of the galaxy. There I hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meira_Arirai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 A somewhat related *** moment I had today, in doing the world foo on Voss: I dunno if this ends up being the case for everybody, but in the JK line, you eventually discover that the two main factions on the planet, the Voss and the Gormak, were initially members of a single species. When you tell the Voss this at the end of the questline, they resolve that the war has to end and that they can't keep killing what are essentially their relatives...after which, you head back to the shuttle and pick up the bonus series, which has you killing an awful lot of Gormak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsama Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This bugged the crap out of me, as well. The very first interaction you have with Satale Shan, as a Jedi Knight (its not spoilers if you get to it in 3 minutes from reroll), she asks how you feel after having to kill a human. 'Killing is very emotional/hard/etc'. Except that I've just slaughtered about 80 sentient species on my way to that conversation. Yes, they're 'Flesh Raiders' and will eat us, but still. Not to mention the fact that as soon as I hit Coruscant, I'm killing hundreds of gangsters and imperials. I'm with the OP here. the whole point of being Jedi is to resolve things non-violently. It wasn't until I was level 42 on Belsavis that they introduced carbonite grenades, which take any normal/trash mob completely out of the fight with minimal effort, and no ill effect to their longevity. Why isn't this an option from the get-go, and only available for two quests? As far as game mechanics, you get XP for 'defeating' an opponent, not killing them. So, if I talk down, stealth past, or force persuade people not to fight me - guess what, I've just defeated that encounter. Much more difficult? Yes. But no one ever said being a Jedi was Easy. Hell, I'll stroll right in to a gangster base with a gigantic dolly of Corellian Ale. You think they'll still shoot me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckmann Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) They're attacking you. You're defending yourself. If it makes you feel better, try to walk up to them and talk peacefully with them and watch them draw their blasters. I have yet to see a bonus mission that tells you to kill children and inocent women. This. I don't even think there's bonus missions to kill neutral (yellow) opponents. It works out real well for my Sith Juggernaut, you Jedi are so uptight about genocide. Also, this. Edited January 31, 2012 by Luckmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliji Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I must say this was extremely uncharacteristic of my character on the way to 50. Most of the suggestions I've read here pertain to fixing it based on republic/empire faction choice. As a light-side inquisitor, I detest this route. What I propose is that they roll the current bonus rewards in with the quests, and then have alignment gain depending on whether or not you completed the "Slaughter sand people" bonus objective. Completed it? +100 dark alignment Skipped it? +100 light alignment If they buffed the numbers required for each bonus, then there should never be a problem of a light-side character "accidentally" completing the objective. Don't make the requirement ridiculous, just make it so that you're forced to go out of your way for completion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattst Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have yet to see a bonus mission that tells you to kill children and inocent women. we can only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattst Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 yes lets make an mmo that u can talk thru all ur problems...that sounds soooooo fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliji Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 yes lets make an mmo that u can talk thru all ur problems...that sounds soooooo fun. God forbid you play an MMORPG for the RPG elements. Furthermore, with as much instancing that takes place in SWTOR, it could be argued that the game weighs far more heavily on the RPG aspect than the MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattst Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 God forbid you play an MMORPG for the RPG elements. Furthermore, with as much instancing that takes place in SWTOR, it could be argued that the game weighs far more heavily on the RPG aspect than the MMO. NOi do think there should be RPG elements! but..i mean talking ur way thru a imp ship to kil the captain? that rly doesnt seem cool..I LOVE PEN AND PAPER rpgs..but u cant translate that into a mmo..it just doesnt fit the mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griyffin Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 No, i think its that most Jedi Knight storylines are all like: "Hey, powerfull Master! Happenned we were so stupid that we took to much terrain to defend it, and while all our forces are somewhere else (From the imperial side I finally know where- waiting in some senseless spot to get killed), some evil native idiots set fire to Orphanage. So, would you mind saving like, 15 orphans (yes, the rest can die, since you cant interact with them as soon as you hit 15), and kill 50 pyromaniacs? And btw, try to save 30 kittens as a bonus". I dont call for the 100% sensefull game, since there is something called "licentia poetica", but the most stupid thing I found is:"****, someone blaster-shotted me in back, *** IS MY MOUNT :S?" Its just somewhat brainless x/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dargor- Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Playing a light side Jedi Consular There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. Now excuse me while I go slaughter 45 random smugglers trying to feed their families in cold blood Edited January 31, 2012 by dargor- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsama Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 MMO mean massively multiplayer. Not massive slaughter in single-player mode. I do not feel that the game will be less exciting if i'm not killing 20 people becuase 'they're in my way'. All the 'trash mobs' is just pacing, keeping me from finishing the story (which is what I really want). The only reason I have to kill all these people is because if I don't, I get to the next hub of the story to early to be effective and get killed. I just want the story, not the slaughter. Sure, yes, I'm defending myself. But again - carbonite grenades. You rush at me with a vibrosword, I freeze you and take out of the fight. You 'wake up' later, and I'm long gone. Why is that a worse option? Most of the 'trash' mobs are just there as jobs, really. trying to feed their families. If you take away the leadership, they'll find other employment. If they're trully malicious, well then have someone come by and cart their frozen selves to jail. The fact that role-playing games focus on killing to level is a limitation placed on them by the design of original RPGs from the 60s. Why can't you make a Metal Gear or Splinter Cell MMO? Where the objective is going *around* the bad guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Anakin, annoyed that he couldn't go farm flashpoints with Obi-Wan 'cause he was a few levels too low, went off to plink around with some of his class story missions. "Bollocks!" he cried when he found out that everything important was happening in a cut-scene. And when the cut scene was over, he still had this bonus "Kill Sandpeople Villagers 0 / 50" going on, and, well...frustrated for not being able to do flashpoints with the only person on his friends list and peeved that he got cut scene hustled, it was the only thing to do. Also, when you have to spit out quests by the bucketload, revisiting the kill-all and fed-ex tropes becomes proportionate to the time constraints. I can only reason that they were really hurting for time and were just trying to make sure that all the bases were covered. Not well covered; just covered. A lot of it feels like placeholder mechanisms to me. Not that I suspect most of them will ever change much from what they are, but I'd be surprised if they don't get added to as time goes by. Maybe when/if we start seeing multiple planet storylines we'll see some thngs get shuffled around, assuming that new content isn't also yet more "Kill All The Things 0 / 1,000,000" in nature, or "Click All The Things 0 / 1,000,000". Or "Bring all the Y's to Z 0 / 1,000,000". I don't get the impression new content'll be so slam-packed full of the old easy go-to's though. Or so goes my hope as based on the information and stated intentions as I understand them of the developers. I could be depressingly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevermoreXIII Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If it makes you feel any better, walk slowly towards a chosen group of baddies and /say that you come in peace, wish to open negotiations concerning the strategic position they hold, and that you're willing to offer very favorable terms. If they start shooting when you get close, then it's self-defence to fight back. lol I lost it, well played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quething Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 As a light-side inquisitor, I detest this route. That first foray into the tombs as an inquisitor, I caught the "kill X slaves" & "kill their robots" quest and immediately dismissed it. There was no way my Sith-hating former slave would ever do anything to impair slaves fighting back against Sith masters. In fact she'd have gladly equipped them, led them in insurrection, and then gotten them offworld at any risk. Then I walked a few feet in, discovered that they were fixed hostile and I was going to have to kill them anyway, and went back and picked the quest back up, because if I'm going to have to act OOC, might as well get XP for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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